Christian Tokers

[overdriveak]

"God makes the earth yield healing herbs, which the prudent man should not neglect." Sirach: 38:4 (Catholic bible)

This one was posted earlier but the wording is a bit different:
"Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; That which cometh out of the mouth defileth a man." Jesus, quoted: Matt 15:11

"In later times, some shall... speak lies in hypocrisy... commanding to abstain from that which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth." Paul: 1 Tim 4:1

 

[lwien]

And course, all that pertains to weed?

I just find it amazing how one can take ANY verse or verses in the Bible and twist them to accamodate and support just about any preconceived idea that one has. People do that a LOT and not just about weed.

 

[momofthegoons]

And let's not forget that the Bible is a translation, done by man.

The only part of the Bible that I find really meaningful (to me and I would hope others would feel that way too) are the 10 Commandments. Good rules to live by.

 

[lwien]

While I generally agree, I do have a question.

The 2nd commandment would negate and declare a MAJOR sin for ALL Buddhists and Catholics or all Christians for that matter, would it not? Wouldn't the carved image of Christ on a cross or the carved image of Buddha fall under this category.

For me, the most valuable quote from the Bible and a quote that if we ALL lived by, the world would be such a better place is: "Do unto others as you would have them do to you", for that kinda covers it all, eh? But what's interesting is that this concept was found in text wayyyyy before the Bible was ever written. Many still believe that this concept was born from Christianity, which couldn't be further from the truth. Embraced by.........yes. Created by..........no.

 

[momofthegoons]

lwien, I would have to say, "right again." Even parts of the 10 Commandments are open to interpretation. You can tell I'm not well versed in the Bible; I've never been into organized religion. I really have no business getting into a biblical discussion. But, my feeling is that your quote, and the parts of the commandments that cover stealing, lying, etc. are the important parts to me. Those are what defines being a Christian in my mind. Being kind to others, do unto others, not holding yourself above others, etc. And, in my mind, no God would ever deny mj to someone who needed it for pain or suffering.

 

[snew]

Views by christian's don't mean there are Biblical view first. Christianity is full of people. All from different walks of life seeing and viewing things differently. So there are a lot of ideas about what a christian is. SO consider this. If there is a God and He loves you and wants to communicate with you. Would he not protect the integrity of that message to you? Now its up to you to do what you want with that message. To reject that message from what others have said not look at it for yourself could have costly consequence for your life. What we believe, what we want is some what irrelevant. God is who he is my objective is to understand him better.

Iwien you are right the graven image thing is a problem for some. If you worship it, the yeah that would be sin wouldn't it. If you praying to that statue thinking it is going to help you. Now if that object helps you keep you focus on God (prayer can be work) then what is the harm there? Motivation means a lot. "From the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks".
"If you seek you find"

 

[Vicki]

The 2nd commandment would negate and declare a MAJOR sin for ALL Buddhists Wouldn't the carved image of Christ on a cross or the carved image of Buddha fall under this category.

Um, since when are Buddhists required to obey Christian rules out of a Christian Bible? Last I checked, they weren't. Two totally different religions here...

 

[Vicki]

Um, since when are Buddhists required to obey Christian rules out of a Christian Bible? Last I checked, they weren't. Two totally different religions here...

Here is a scripture for you to ponder lwien: http://bibleencyclopedia.com/slides/2_timothy/3-16.htm Anyway you translate it, it means the same thing.....All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

And, why are you arguing with Christians when you are an Atheist? This thread was originally how CHRISTIANS feel about God using cannabis. Not a debate about what Christians believe.

 

[lwien]

And, why are you arguing with Christians when you are an Atheist? This thread was originally how CHRISTIANS feel about God using cannabis. Not a debate about what Christians believe.

I'm an Atheist? No I'm not. I could NEVER deny the existence of God any more than I could affirm that he/she DOES exist.

Secondly, I am NOT arguing with Christians. Debating and bringing up for question certain aspects of Bibical interpretations is FAR for arguing, is it not?

Thirdly, I don't believe that ANY Christian believes that God uses cannabis. (I take that back. Maybe some people do. )

And forthly, the discussion regarding Christians feeling guilty about using cannibis because they may believe that it is against Christian teachings, imho, has EVERYTHING to do with Bibical intrepretation, does it not?

 

[Vicki]

I'm an Atheist? No I'm not. I could NEVER deny the existence of God any more than I could affirm that he/she DOES exist.

Secondly, I am NOT arguing with Christians. Debating and bringing up for question certain aspects of Bibical interpretations is FAR for arguing, is it not?

Thirdly, I don't believe that ANY Christian believes that God uses cannabis. (I take that back. Maybe some people do. )

And forthly, the discussion regarding Christians feeling guilty about using cannibis because they may believe that it is against Christian teachings, imho, has EVERYTHING to do with Bibical intrepretation, does it not?

Ok, maybe your not Athiest. but it's obvious you do not understand Christianity or the scriptures. Who ever said God uses cannabis? I never said it. Please show me where someone said that because that bothers me, a lot!! I just quoted 2 Timothy 3:16 for you because you said, "I just find it amazing how one can take ANY verse or verses in the Bible and twist them to accamodate and support just about any preconceived idea that one has. People do that a LOT and not just about weed." Did you even bother to read 2 Timothy 3:16? I copied and pasted it here for you.

AND, please tell me where Buddhists are required to follow the Christian Bible?? You never answered me when I asked you before. Think you can this time, please?

 

[lwien]

Who ever said God uses cannabis? I never said it. Please show me where someone said that because that bothers me, a lot!!

You said it..........here:

This thread was originally how CHRISTIANS feel about God using cannabis.

I just kinda said it tongue in cheek. That's why I put in the smily face. I know that that's not what you meant, but it is what you said.

And regarding your statement that I implied that Buddhists are required to follow the Christian Bible is also totally out in left field, as much as you calling me an Aetheist, for I never implied such a thing. But let's get down to the nitty gritty regarding this issue. The Ten Commandments came LONG before the Christian Bible was ever written. Long before........, so saying that I said that Buddhists are required to follow the Christian Bible is as false as you accusing me of being an Aethiest.

Now we're auging, only because you are accusing me of being something I'm not and accusing me of saying things I've never said.

 

[Vicki]

You said it..........here:

I just kinda said it tongue in cheek. That's why I put in the smily face.

Ok, I miswrote that because I was angry and now you are twisting my words. I think everyone here knows I meant to say how GOD feel about US using cannabis.

Can you PLEASE answer my Buddhist question. I REALLY want to know what you meant. AND, please at least acknowledge when I call you out with 2 Tim 3:16. IF you are gonna say things like this to people...."And course, all that pertains to weed? At least say something when someone calls you on your comment.

BTW, I refuse to let this go. If you are going to come in this thread and say ignorant things like Buddhists follow the Christian Bible, I WILL call you on it because you are dead wrong.

If you are going to come in this thread and say things, and people call you on it, why do you ignore them? Two subjects that disagree with what you say, and you ignore it? Wow! I'm still waiting for an answer about 2 Timothy 3:16 and Buddhism.

The only thing you maybe said "tongue in cheek" was this, Thirdly, I don't believe that ANY Christian believes that God uses cannabis. (I take that back. Maybe some people do. ) not the comment you made to me about God using cannabis.

There is no "holy" text in Buddhism that is the equivalent of the Bible, Torah or Quraan, which are thought to be the word of God. In Buddhism there are many sutras, which are recordings of teachings given by the Buddha or other advanced Dharma practitioners. The Buddha said that no one should simply believe what he said, but we should all think for ourselves and discover the truth through analytical mediation.

 

[snew]

Iwien I welcome friendly debate. Never generally accomplishes much does it but its fun.
Honestly anyone finding direct reference to MJ in the Bible is just stretching things to fit. However, the clear reference to obeying the unavoidable. This is a clear mandate in the bible. I don't question this at all. One could use scripture reflecting negatively on drunkenness and state that would forbid it, but if you reference those scriptures you should also refer positively to alcohol also. As well as the common use by Jesus and all. Either way the problem is excess. I would think thats reasonable, except obeying the law. Now in Medical MJ states the dilemma is pretty much not there for those truly using medically.
As for the Christian Buddhist question here. Christianity always has one problem in the public. It believes there is no other way, no other God, None. Not Buddhist, or Islam any other religion is acceptable. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the light. No man comes to the father except by me." Now that's hard to chew for many and I understand that.
I want you to think about this, Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God...". Now these are the hardest words in the Bible. Before anything God. Then he goes on to explain, through the Bible, to explain how much he loves man.
Thanks

 

[Vicki]

Iwien I welcome friendly debate. Never generally accomplishes much does it but its fun.
Honestly anyone finding direct reference to MJ in the Bible is just stretching things to fit. However, the clear reference to obeying the unavoidable. This is a clear mandate in the bible. I don't question this at all. One could use scripture reflecting negatively on drunkenness and state that would forbid it, but if you reference those scriptures you should also refer positively to alcohol also. As well as the common use by Jesus and all. Either way the problem is excess. I would think thats reasonable, except obeying the law. Now in Medical MJ states the dilemma is pretty much not there for those truly using medically.
As for the Christian Buddhist question here. Christianity always has one problem in the public. It believes there is no other way, no other God, None. Not Buddhist, or Islam any other religion is acceptable. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the light. No man comes to the father except by me." Now that's hard to chew for many and I understand that.
I want you to think about this, Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God...". Now these are the hardest words in the Bible. Before anything God. Then he goes on to explain, through the Bible, to explain how much he loves man.
Thanks

lwien specifically said that Buddhists follow the Christian Bible. Since when are Buddhists bound by Christian law? I'm waiting for lwien to answer this and the fact that I called him out with 2 Tim 3:16 while defending another members comments.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

"Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food."

 

[WatTyler]

snew, I was just re-reading the thread and noticed this bit from the wikipedia article;

The Targum Onkelos, however, clearly translates this Hebrew kaneh bosem as Aramaic q'nei busma, which is the same phrase used in the Mishna (concerning textiles) to refer to hemp.Citing the Targum in his annotated Torah translation, "The Living Torah", Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan notes cannabis as one among several other possible interpretations of keneh bosem as an ingredient in the holy anointing oil

We dealt with the Septuagint translation. What's this about the Targum Onkelos? I couldn't see this reference to it in the Living Tora notes. A wiki error? Do you have any insight?

 

[lwien]

lwien specifically said that Buddhists follow the Christian Bible. Since when are Buddhists bound by Christian law? I'm waiting for lwien to answer this and the fact that I called him out with 2 Tim 3:16 while defending another members comments.

I already answered it, Vicki, but I will do it again. I NEVER said that Buddhists follow the Christian Bible...........ever. Why are you constantly accusing me of saying things I never said? Of course Buddhists are not bound by Christian law. Neither are they bound by Judea law, which really gave birth to the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments are NOT of Christian orgin.

Ok, let's forget the Buddhist thing. Let's talk about the statue of the Virgin Mary, or the symbols of the crucifiction. Could those things go against the 2nd commandment? Do people not bow down to these images in worship?

Regarding Timothy 3:16, that could mean that anyone can twist anything they want out of the bible to suit their purpose, which is what I said was happening in the first place.

 

[Vicki]

The 2nd commandment would negate and declare a MAJOR sin for ALL Buddhists and Catholics or all Christians for that matter, would it not? Wouldn't the carved image of Christ on a cross or the carved image of Buddha fall under this category.

No, you never answered me and OH yes you did! Why would the Buddhists be bound by the second commandment when they aren't Christian???

 

[Vicki]

And course, all that pertains to weed?

I just find it amazing how one can take ANY verse or verses in the Bible and twist them to accamodate and support just about any preconceived idea that one has. People do that a LOT and not just about weed.

I feel the need to quote you now lwien. Did you bother to read 2 Timothy 3:16???

 

[lwien]

Yes I did. It said, " All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction , for training in rightousness".

Like I said in the post above, "that could mean that anyone can twist anything they want out of the bible to suit their purpose, which is what I said was happening in the first place."

Bottom line is this. If anyone is allowed to "reproof" and "correct" anything that is said in the Bible, than where is the value in what is said in the Bible in the first place, which is what I implied with what you quoted from me above. There are a lot of people (some really crazy people out there), that will "correct" what is said in the Bible to suit their particular agenda, and that's all that I was saying and they will use the Bible to support their activities. What is as equally dangerous, imho, it to take the Bible litterally, especially some of the crazy stuff and laws laid down in the Old Testament. Do you know what the punishment should be for someone who breaks the 4th Commandment?

 

[Vicki]

Yes I did. It said, " All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction , for training in rightousness".

Like I said in the post above, "that could mean that anyone can twist anything they want out of the bible to suit their purpose, which is what I said was happening in the first place."

Bottom line is this. If anyone is allowed to "reproof" and "correct" anything that is said in the Bible, than where is the value in what is said in the Bible in the first place, which is what I implied with what you quoted from me above. There are a lot of people (some really crazy people out there), that will "correct" what is said in the Bible to suit their particular agenda, and that's all that I was saying and they will use the Bible to support their activities. What is as equally dangerous, imho, it to take the Bible litterally, especially some of the crazy stuff and laws laid down in the Old Testament. Do you know what the punishment should be for someone who breaks the 4th Commandment?

This is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I believe that scripture and the one in my signature, plus I pray a lot for God's guidance.

And I was never talking about the 4th commandment. I was talking about the 2nd commandment and your comment. Please answer my below question that you KEEP ignoring.

No, you never answered me and OH yes you did! Why would the Buddhists be bound by the second commandment when they aren't Christian???

lwien said: ↑

The 2nd commandment would negate and declare a MAJOR sin for ALL Buddhists and Catholics or all Christians for that matter, would it not? Wouldn't the carved image of Christ on a cross or the carved image of Buddha fall under this category.​

​

WHY did you say that when Buddhists do not follow the Christian Bible?????? I will keep asking until you answer me because it makes NO sense at all! With that statement you DID imply that Buddhists are bound by Christian law, when they ARE NOT.

I know my emotions are showing, and I apologize, but damn!! How many times do I have to ask a direct question before I get an honest answer? lwien, is there a reason you refuse to address this issue over and over?

 

[snew]

snew, I was just re-reading the thread and noticed this bit from the wikipedia article;
The Targum Onkelos, however, clearly translates this Hebrew kaneh bosem as Aramaic q'nei busma, which is the same phrase used in the Mishna (concerning textiles) to refer to hemp.Citing the Targum in his annotated Torah translation, "The Living Torah", Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan notes cannabis as one among several other possible interpretations of keneh bosem as an ingredient in the holy anointing oil
We dealt with the Septuagint translation. What's this about the Targum Onkelos? I couldn't see this reference to it in the Living Tora notes. A wiki error? Do you have any insight?

I have only read about Rabbi Kaplan only in reference to MJ. I'm not directly familiar with the "Targum Onkelos", wiki (lol) says its an Aramaic translation from the Hebrew original. So again we're relying on someones translations, just as in the Septuagint being a Greek translation. One would not rely on either to verify something of this nature but on should look to the original. The difference is that Aramaic was language of the common man the language of commerce. Greek was the Universal language, would have been used in legal documents etc. Partly because it is such a precise language. If I were to look at one over the other it would the Septuagint.
I've not spent extensive research on marijuana in Bible. Because having studied the Bible just to understand it. I just didn't find it there. Now I thank God every day for the herb he has put here for me.
Truth is if my health where better I would never touch it. But it relieves my chronic pain and I am a much better man smoking herb than any other pain relief I've tried. I stopped smoking at about 20 and never touched it again until almost 50. But I am a very sick man God has given me a give in Cannabis and I hope its never taken away.
Do understand if I felt that my use of marijuana was inhibiting my relationship with God I would stop it today.
Thats my story.

Now you two stop bickering. plz

 

[Vicki]

Now you two stop bickering. plz

I'm not bickering. I want an answer to an honest question that he keeps avoiding and it is damn frustrating, would be to anyone I think!

 

[lwien]

LOL.

Ok, snew, I'll stop bickering after answering Vicki's last question..........one more time, and then.....no more from me.

I think I can best answer the question with a question, Vicki. Do you feel that Buddhists will not go to heaven because they don't follow Christian doctrine, with one of those doctrines being the 2nd Commandment, and that if they don't follow that doctrine, they are committing a major sin, from your perspective ? You may not feel that way, but I would say that there are many, many Christians who do, and that is what I was "trying" to convey.

 

[Vicki]

LOL.

Ok, snew, I'll stop bickering after answering Vicki's last question..........one more time, and then.....no more from me.

I think I can best answer the question with a question, Vicki. Do you feel that Buddhists will not go to heaven because they don't follow Christian doctrin, with one of those doctrines being the 2nd Commandment, and that if they don't follow that doctrin, they are committing a major sin, from your perspective ? You may not feel that way, but I would say that there are many, many Christians who do, and that is what I was "trying" to convey.

OMG lwien.That is not what you meant and you know it. You NEVER answered my Buddhist question and now you want to answer me with a question. You refuse to answer my direct question to you over and over. You refuse to admit you were wrong with what you said by ignoring my question over and over, hoping it would go away, and now I'm done. It's obvious when you are directly called out, you try to change the subject or ignore what the person directly asks you. Now, no more from me to you about this. Feel like I am talking to a politician. Geez....

I'm done trying to get you to explain your comments when they make no sense. Anyone would have asked you the same question. Only Christians are bound by Christian laws and their Bible. Other religions have their OWN beliefs and that's fine!! If a Christian were to judge another person, for ANYTHING, they are wrong because the Bible says not to, plain and simple. Since Buddhists are not Christian, they don't follow Christian rules. If they converted to Christianity, that would be a different story. Then the 2nd commandment would apply to them.