Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome

[C No Ego]

@ whomever = it seems my link to ICmag regarding Neem oil on plants is deleted here ??? here is the link , if mods are deleting this just let me know not to post other Forum links on this open Board= thank you
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=339380

 

[Stu]

if mods are deleting this just let me know not to post other Forum links on this open Board= thank you

Not sure what post you're referring to, but I went back and checked your posts in this thread going back to November and none were edited by us.

 

[shredder]

@ whomever = it seems my link to ICmag regarding Neem oil on plants is deleted here ??? here is the link , if mods are deleting this just let me know not to post other Forum links on this open Board= thank you
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=339380

I read the last two pages from your link. All I read was anadotal and speculation. Did I miss anything important?

I really do think something is going on. And marijuana is involved, but so far no one seems to know what is going on exactly. The reason people get sick, and others don't is still a mystery.

 

[Madri-Gal]

I've had bouts of hyperemesis that were severe enough for hospitalization. It's a terrible thing. There can be causes other than cannabis, and I can't imagine getting through even a "normal" bout of nausea without cannabis. I'm hope those suffering find relief, and I'm glad I have found what works for me. CHS sounds as bad as any hyperemesis I've ever heard of, and I hope sufferers are able to feel better.

 

[C No Ego]

Not sure what post you're referring to, but I went back and checked your posts in this thread going back to November and none were edited by us.

thanks Stu, Apparently I have that ICmag link somewhere and thought it was posted in this thread ... well it is now

I read the last two pages from your link. All I read was anadotal and speculation. Did I miss anything important?

I really do think something is going on. And marijuana is involved, but so far no one seems to know what is going on exactly. The reason people get sick, and others don't is still a mystery.

did you miss the part where neem oil causes instant Upchuck ?, not waiting 40 years or whatever for CHS to show up?

 

[shredder]

did you miss the part where neem oil causes instant Upchuck ?, not waiting 40 years or whatever for CHS to show up?

I did miss the part where neem oil is shown to be a cause for CHS. I did see speculation for what causes CHS.

Look I hope a cause and remedy is found soon, and that more correct information can help those affected. Truth is though we just don't know what causes CHS.

 

[C No Ego]

I did miss the part where neem oil is shown to be a cause for CHS. I did see speculation for what causes CHS.

Look I hope a cause and remedy is found soon, and that more correct information can help those affected. Truth is though we just don't know what causes CHS.

not that I support this but if you were to vaporize and inhale direct neem oil then an upchuck effect would be most likely... or make neem oil Dabs and see what happens

 

[newVaper420]

not that I support this but if you were to vaporize and inhale direct neem oil then an upchuck effect would be most likely... or make neem oil Dabs and see what happens

I am 100% certain my illness was not related to Neem oil. That's just my opinion though. Also, I think if it was Neem oil, with the stuff I was vaping, there would have been way more cases, and people would have been shut down, especially at the end of my run where I could get the lab tests of the things I was vaping, and personally knew the growers and stuff. Plus as mentioned, there are way too many stories I've read of people growing their own without Neem oil and still getting sick.

All I know is the truth of the matter is, Neem oil or not, ingesting/vaping cannabis made me sick. The only way to avoid that, is to not use cannabis (because as mentioned, I've read many stories of people who grow their own and still get sick).

 

[Madri-Gal]

I did miss the part where neem oil is shown to be a cause for CHS. I did see speculation for what causes CHS.

Look I hope a cause and remedy is found soon, and that more correct information can help those affected. Truth is though we just don't know what causes CHS.

I'd be concerned that another condition was present, such as Cyclical Vomiting Syndrome. Would a doctor order the tests to rule out or look for other possible causes, or just tell vomiting patients to just stop using cannabis? It's not as if there is no bias against cannabis in many medical situations. It's also tricky to diagnose some digestive problems. Even something such as Crohns and Ulcerative Colitis can be difficult to differentiate ( and both can cause nausea and vomiting).
If someone thinks they have a problem with, or have health problems with, cannabis, I am all for them quitting, if it's what they want to do. If I thought it caused nausea and vomiting I'd quit. I would then expect the issues to stop, and be pleased if it did. I am also aware that there are various reasons for nausea and vomiting to be recurrent, and I would want to know the actual reason. I've had a misdiagnosis related to chronic nausea and vomiting, as did my daughter, and the wrong diagnosis costs time, suffering and health.
For my part, I am thrilled cannabis can control nausea and vomiting. I've relied on it this past month, and will rely on it in the future ( possibly this morning, as I am a bit queasy). It's good to know CHS exists. It's good to know it's rare, and that it's often misdiagnosed or self diagnosed. People are different, and if someone can't tolerate cannabis, I hope they can feel better soon.

 

[Relaxed]

I'm not a doctor (nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn last night), but it seems to me that it would be quite easy to determine if cannabis is causing this issue. Just quit! If the symptoms begin regressing then you have your answer.

*Edit, I'm not taking anyone's condition lightly or downplaying the difficulty of diagnosis. I just know that the way to prove something is to remove variables until you narrow it down.

 

[Madri-Gal]

I'm not a doctor (nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn last night), but it seems to me that it would be quite easy to determine if cannabis is causing this issue. Just quit! If the symptoms begin regressing then you have your answer.

*Edit, I'm not taking anyone's condition lightly or downplaying the difficulty of diagnosis. I just know that the way to prove something is to remove variables until you narrow it down.

Exactly. If it's causing problems, quit. If the symptoms go away, you might want to stay quit.
One of the reasons I vape is to control nausea. I vape, I feel better. I'm lucky it works for me. It would be sad to not have it as an option, but if it caused problems it wouldn't be worth it.

Vaping Neem oil and then vomiting would mean vaping Neem oil causes vomiting. It wouldn't mean it causes CHS. I would strongly advise against it if I knew anyone stupid enough to vape Neem oil directly.

 

[510MOD]

It's not as simple as just quitting. You have to stop for 90 days or more for daily users typically. That's a long time to see IF something is an issue or not while you still may be getting nausea and vomiting episodes.

I recently have started having some random nausea and vomiting episodes myself. Its not continuous or consistent. It seems related to my diet, but could be one of many things. It became something that happened often enough that I decided to see a doctor. The doctor was aware of my cannabis use and mentioned CHS but also mentioned I would have to take a 90+ day break which could be difficult and still not provide answers or results. Instead the doctor recommended an endoscopy and colonoscopy to determine what's wrong. Supposedly it can test for Cyclical Vomiting Syndrome. It may not sound like a great alternative to many, but I am nearing the age where these things are more casual anyway.

 

[Madri-Gal]

It's not as simple as just quitting. You have to stop for 90 days or more for daily users typically. That's a long time to see IF something is an issue or not while you still may be getting nausea and vomiting episodes.

I recently have started having some random nausea and vomiting episodes myself. Its not continuous or consistent. It seems related to my diet, but could be one of many things. It became something that happened often enough that I decided to see a doctor. The doctor was aware of my cannabis use and mentioned CHS but also mentioned I would have to take a 90+ day break which could be difficult and still not provide answers or results. Instead the doctor recommended an endoscopy and colonoscopy to determine what's wrong. Supposedly it can test for Cyclical Vomiting Syndrome. It may not sound like a great alternative to many, but I am nearing the age where these things are more casual anyway.

I hope you get to feeling better soon. It sounds like you are on the right track checking things out, and finding out what is making you feel poorly.

 

[C No Ego]

I am 100% certain my illness was not related to Neem oil. That's just my opinion though. Also, I think if it was Neem oil, with the stuff I was vaping, there would have been way more cases, and people would have been shut down, especially at the end of my run where I could get the lab tests of the things I was vaping, and personally knew the growers and stuff. Plus as mentioned, there are way too many stories I've read of people growing their own without Neem oil and still getting sick.

All I know is the truth of the matter is, Neem oil or not, ingesting/vaping cannabis made me sick. The only way to avoid that, is to not use cannabis (because as mentioned, I've read many stories of people who grow their own and still get sick).

yeah, whatever condition sets in over time via ingesting cannabis that leads into CHS, Neem on the cannabis seems to just speed that process up ...

 

[shredder]

yeah, whatever condition sets in over time via ingesting cannabis that leads into CHS, Neem on the cannabis seems to just speed that process up ...

is-chs-caused-by-neem-oil

 

[newVaper420]

The funny thing is, you can think that cannabis is helping with the nausea and vomiting, but it's actually causing it. Anyway, I knew right away I had CHS because in about 2 weeks I started feeling better almost immediately. Today, I have absolutely no issues. It's very apparent to my wife. Everyday I would say to my wife, my stomach hurts. Now, I never say it. She notices the difference. I notice the difference. It's quite remarkable.

 

[virtualpurple]

This is only one man’s experience from my days in the ER. But everyone that I cared for that left with a diagnosis of Cannabis Hyperemesis Syndrome was consuming in really large amounts and consuming quite often throughout the day.

In truth, I don’t recall seeing a lot of different people leave with that diagnosis. I would bet in the last 10 years I only saw maybe 10-15 patients, if not a little less. But I can recall 4 individuals that we saw often for the same complaint, coincidentally they also never changed their level or frequency of consumption.

this is not a judgement or a swipe at anyone in this thread, nor is it a blanket statement to say that anyone here who has experienced CHS is just plain using too much too often. I don’t know anyone’s circumstances here and wouldn’t want to cast a wide net like that, so I hope nobody gets offended. This is simply what I observed on the clinical side of the spectrum.

 

[Tranquility]

Hot pepper creme.
Capsaicin for Cannabis Hyperemesis - A Randomized Trial
So you take 10 hot showers a day…
This was a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study which enrolled adult patients with suspected CHS in the ED. Patients were randomized to receive topical 0.1% capsaicin cream versus a placebo moisturizing cream. The researchers enrolled 30 participants, 17 in the capsaicin group and 13 in the placebo group. Patients reported nausea on a validated visual analog scale (VAS) rated from 0 to 10 (most severe) at 30 minutes and 60 minutes. Researchers found that there was a non-statistically significant decrease in nausea at 30 minutes (difference -2.0 cm, 95% CI, 0.2 to -4.2 cm) and a statistically significant difference in nausea at 60 minutes (difference -3.2 cm, 95% CI -0.9 to -5.4 cm). Of the capsaicin group, 29.4% reported complete relief of nausea versus 0% of the placebo group. This study was quite small and underpowered to make major conclusions on several endpoints but suggests a benefit of capsaicin in treatment of refractory nausea in suspected CHS. Larger studies are needed.

 

[510MOD]

Hot pepper creme.
Capsaicin for Cannabis Hyperemesis - A Randomized Trial
So you take 10 hot showers a day…
This was a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study which enrolled adult patients with suspected CHS in the ED. Patients were randomized to receive topical 0.1% capsaicin cream versus a placebo moisturizing cream. The researchers enrolled 30 participants, 17 in the capsaicin group and 13 in the placebo group. Patients reported nausea on a validated visual analog scale (VAS) rated from 0 to 10 (most severe) at 30 minutes and 60 minutes. Researchers found that there was a non-statistically significant decrease in nausea at 30 minutes (difference -2.0 cm, 95% CI, 0.2 to -4.2 cm) and a statistically significant difference in nausea at 60 minutes (difference -3.2 cm, 95% CI -0.9 to -5.4 cm). Of the capsaicin group, 29.4% reported complete relief of nausea versus 0% of the placebo group. This study was quite small and underpowered to make major conclusions on several endpoints but suggests a benefit of capsaicin in treatment of refractory nausea in suspected CHS. Larger studies are needed.

Capsaicin is no joke...not something to mess with unless you are certain you have CHS. Even then, treat with caution. I have had some weird stomach issues for about 2 years now that at times has resulted in abdominal pain, nausea and even vomiting sometimes. I thought at one point that it may be CHS and I had discovered an article similar to the one you posted about capsaicin. I went out and bought some and tried it. I was conservative with it and felt me skin burning within 5 minutes. I rinsed off my application area on my abdomen and it still felt irritable like a burning sensation. The next day I had sunburn like marks from the capsaicin cream. It is very strong stuff and can cause skin damage if not used appropriately.

Unfortunately I am still battling with my stomach issues which seem to be more likely to be SIBO or H. Pylori infection.

 

[invertedisdead]

Hot pepper creme.
Capsaicin for Cannabis Hyperemesis - A Randomized Trial
So you take 10 hot showers a day…
This was a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study which enrolled adult patients with suspected CHS in the ED. Patients were randomized to receive topical 0.1% capsaicin cream versus a placebo moisturizing cream. The researchers enrolled 30 participants, 17 in the capsaicin group and 13 in the placebo group. Patients reported nausea on a validated visual analog scale (VAS) rated from 0 to 10 (most severe) at 30 minutes and 60 minutes. Researchers found that there was a non-statistically significant decrease in nausea at 30 minutes (difference -2.0 cm, 95% CI, 0.2 to -4.2 cm) and a statistically significant difference in nausea at 60 minutes (difference -3.2 cm, 95% CI -0.9 to -5.4 cm). Of the capsaicin group, 29.4% reported complete relief of nausea versus 0% of the placebo group. This study was quite small and underpowered to make major conclusions on several endpoints but suggests a benefit of capsaicin in treatment of refractory nausea in suspected CHS. Larger studies are needed.

I used this on my friend who almost died from CHS.

Basically if you are diabetic CHS is no joke and can trigger some really serious issues. Essentially the cyclic vomiting depletes the body of electrolytes to the point its nearly impossible to re-establish proper hydration without IV fluids. If you try and just drink beverages high in electrolytes as a diabetic you can easily can run into major blood sugar issues seeking rehydration. It basically trigged my friend into a bout of dietary ketoacidosis with a blood sugar of 600. It was a $10,000 hospital adventure for what was ultimately fixed with a bag of salt water.

 

[newVaper420]

Capsaicin is no joke...not something to mess with unless you are certain you have CHS. Even then, treat with caution. I have had some weird stomach issues for about 2 years now that at times has resulted in abdominal pain, nausea and even vomiting sometimes. I thought at one point that it may be CHS and I had discovered an article similar to the one you posted about capsaicin. I went out and bought some and tried it. I was conservative with it and felt me skin burning within 5 minutes. I rinsed off my application area on my abdomen and it still felt irritable like a burning sensation. The next day I had sunburn like marks from the capsaicin cream. It is very strong stuff and can cause skin damage if not used appropriately.

Unfortunately I am still battling with my stomach issues which seem to be more likely to be SIBO or H. Pylori infection.

Have you tried to stop smoking, just curious?

 

[510MOD]

Have you tried to stop smoking, just curious?

Yes. I was told I would need to stop for at least 90 days so I tried following the doctor's recommendations. I changed my eating habits, lost 30ish lbs and stopped drinking beer completely. I was close to 120 days in and the symptoms would come and go randomly. The only sure things to cause an episode was to eat spicy (not mild, actually spicy) or to overeat. After a pretty bad episode that reoccured for several mornings/days I decided to throw in the towel and started vaping/dabbing again.

I really think my issues are bacteria related due to the randomness of the onset of episodes as well as the episodes only occur immediately after or even during the process of defecation. It's not that the food bothers me after eating or anything. It's the morning after when I am getting sick.

 

[biohacker]

@510MOD have you have any stool cultures done yet? Could be a parasite? I was just diagnosed with Blasto... it's pretty common and many people have no symptoms. H-pylori is something you also want to definitely rule out. Have you taken a good quality probiotic like Bio-k for several weeks/months yet?

 

[510MOD]

@510MOD have you have any stool cultures done yet? Could be a parasite? I was just diagnosed with Blasto... it's pretty common and many people have no symptoms. H-pylori is something you also want to definitely rule out. Have you taken a good quality probiotic like Bio-k for several weeks/months yet?

Yes on the probiotics. No to the cultures. I had a colonoscopy in January or February (was not due for one as I am only 37) just to see if there were any serious issues and all was good. Was gonna do the SIBO test next but then Coronavirus came abound so they canceled my appointment. Work from home was great because things seemed much more under control probably due to not waking as early and not eating ethnic food for lunch, however it was still not void of episodes and still found no consistency in prior behavior/health/eating habits that were reflective to the time(s) before.

I have been trying to catch up on the colonoscopy/anesthesia bills before I start scheduling the next appointment. I would like to reschedule that SIBO test and perhaps a Urea breath test as well as stool cultures. I would really like to figure it out as it sucks.

 

[SquirrelMaster]

Yes on the probiotics. No to the cultures. I had a colonoscopy in January or February (was not due for one as I am only 37) just to see if there were any serious issues and all was good. Was gonna do the SIBO test next but then Coronavirus came abound so they canceled my appointment. Work from home was great because things seemed much more under control probably due to not waking as early and not eating ethnic food for lunch, however it was still not void of episodes and still found no consistency in prior behavior/health/eating habits that were reflective to the time(s) before.

I have been trying to catch up on the colonoscopy/anesthesia bills before I start scheduling the next appointment. I would like to reschedule that SIBO test and perhaps a Urea breath test as well as stool cultures. I would really like to figure it out as it sucks.

Have you played around with your diet? Do you crave and/or eat a lot of sugar? Do you keep a food journal? I would highly recommend doing so if you're having issues and seeing if certain foods trigger pain the next day. Do a web search for FODMAP foods and see if any of those coincide with day after pain. One of the worst triggers for me is garlic, if I eat ANY I have pain and a specific taste in my mouth the next day. I'm so sensitive that I've made the mistake of buying food that had garlic powder way down the ingredient list and not noticing (sometimes for days ) except I would wake up the next day and instantly know it was in something I ate. I laugh because the last time I did it took a few back to back days to clue into the fact that it was some crackers that I had bought. Quite a few foods don't affect me until the next day for some reason.

There are intolerance tests but a food journal is more effective. Dairy, Gluten and FODMAP foods (which vary food to food) are big triggers for me. Whenever my stomach is acting up more than usual I cut out all refined sugars as well which I try to avoid in the first place.

I really feel for anyone that lives in a county without public health care and has to worry about bills to stay healthy or before they can go to the doctor. Everyone deserves the right to be healthy as a basic human right. I wish you well in finding out what's causing your pain.