Camouflet Convector

tinctorus

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
In fairness, a fair few people on here complained at the price, and suggested it be lowered. In these circs, whatever the manufacturer's do, they're going to get criticised. Caveat emptor and all that
This was not the way to go about it, it's a big fuck you to everyone who decided to give an untested unit a chance
 
tinctorus,

Choices

Well-Known Member
This was not the way to go about it, it's a big fuck you to everyone who decided to give an untested unit a chance
I don’t view it that way at all. Part of my feedback to the company was the fact that I felt their original price point was too high for it to be competitive with the Dynavap M. I’m glad to see it has been lowered. I don’t think their idea was to bait and switch early purchasers with a 40% off. I looked at my actual cost, not the % off based on some arbitrary value. Is it worth $80 from my vantage point? Yep. Will I possibly buy another at the current price? More likely than if it was set at the higher original msrp. Did you not like yours?
 

tinctorus

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
I don’t view it that way at all. Part of my feedback to the company was the fact that I felt their original price point was too high for it to be competitive with the Dynavap M. I’m glad to see it has been lowered. I don’t think their idea was to bait and switch early purchasers with a 40% off. I looked at my actual cost, not the % off based on some arbitrary value. Is it worth $80 from my vantage point? Yep. Will I possibly buy another at the current price? More likely than if it was set at the higher original msrp. Did you not like yours?
The entire reason I bought it when I did was because I was getting it almost half of retail, well when they then change the retail price not even a few days later WTF WAS THE POINT of the promo code and his whole long bullshit of "oh early adopters will be taken care of Yada Yada Yada"
I feel duped and lied to and I'm not the only one, everyone I've talked to so far about it also says it's fucked
I won't do business with a company if this is how they do things
 

Zuhdj

Charles Mingus
The entire reason I bought it when I did was because I was getting it almost half of retail, well when they then change the retail price not even a few days later WTF WAS THE POINT of the promo code and his whole long bullshit of "oh early adopters will be taken care of Yada Yada Yada"
I feel duped and lied to and I'm not the only one, everyone I've talked to so far about it also says it's fucked
I won't do business with a company if this is how they do things
Everyone YOUVE talked to. So you told people that they intentionally baited and switched on early adopters. Of course they agree with you. If they consider what @Choices said as well then you might not have quite so much confirmation bias. Fwiw I see where you're coming from but you're completely missing what the company intended. They had all intentions for us to have a special deal and to keep the price high but we, as a community, pressured them to lower it and they listened. If that's bad business then I'm not sure what's good business.
 

Xclerk

The Universe is our endless supply
i cant be so mad, as others said they listened and took what we said into consideration. Dont think its less than the early adopter price either. Glad to see they added parts so you can get extras or even a tip and cap to try. Tempted to grab a 2n so i can have one for ih use and one for torch.
 

tinctorus

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
Everyone YOUVE talked to. So you told people that they intentionally baited and switched on early adopters. Of course they agree with you. If they consider what @Choices said as well then you might not have quite so much confirmation bias. Fwiw I see where you're coming from but you're completely missing what the company intended. They had all intentions for us to have a special deal and to keep the price high but we, as a community, pressured them to lower it and they listened. If that's bad business then I'm not sure what's good business.
No I simply told them the facts of what happened, I didn't add my frustration

Lowering the price is never a bad thing, but you still seem to be missing my point
What was the point of is buying it early?
I ONLY bought the unit early because it was cheaper to do so, if I had known they would say fuck the discount codes "only for FC BTW" were just going to lower the price for everyone fuck those "VIP"

For those saying "atleast it's not lower than you paid" yeah you're right, it's 4.60 more than I paid...
 

coolbreeze

Well-Known Member
No I simply told them the facts of what happened, I didn't add my frustration

Lowering the price is never a bad thing, but you still seem to be missing my point
What was the point of is buying it early?
I ONLY bought the unit early because it was cheaper to do so, if I had known they would say fuck the discount codes "only for FC BTW" were just going to lower the price for everyone fuck those "VIP"

For those saying "atleast it's not lower than you paid" yeah you're right, it's 4.60 more than I paid...
But all you lost in the process is the sense that you got a special, exclusive deal. You still paid less than list, still got a nice device. Better for them to adjust now and disappoint you by $4.60 than to die in the crib, no?
 

tinctorus

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
But all you lost in the process is the sense that you got a special, exclusive deal. You still paid less than list, still got a nice device. Better for them to adjust now and disappoint you by $4.60 than to die in the crib, no?
You don't seem to be getting the point at all
 

Camouflet

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
Good morning!

We've been busy working away, seems like a good time to make some announcements:

-After a successful launch, with the support of FC members and one non-FC member (only customer who paid the initial higher retail price, who will be compensated accordingly), we achieved our first milestone of moving the first 20x Convector kits into the wild! 17x kits sold, 2x kits provided to the first reviewers who contacted us (@vapormachina & @BingsBuddery full transparency) and 1x evaluation unit to an overseas retailer. A massive thank you to the early adopters (Vapor Inclined Professionals) who supported us out of the gate and took a chance on Camouflet's initial product release.
-As some have noticed, after hitting this milestone, we decided to adjust our pricing according to the feedback we've received thus far. We decided to make this adjustment as early as possible, so more people have the opportunity to enjoy the Convector vs receiving the anticipated profit with the higher price point on the first round of production, was the best option for the success of the product and our company. Early Access discount code was to be closed after the first 15x sales for those interested in knowing the details.
-Making the Convector and sharing it with like minded individuals is fun, the FC forum is usually a fun place, we like fun! Early Access members will be receiving some fun surprises shortly. Early Access members have not been lied to or swayed in an attempt to convince individuals to purchase the Convector at a discount. Our word is bong, and these individuals are in for a treat. If you no longer wish to be part of the Early Access team, please email us and we will remove you from the roster. The Early Access code is now over and we thank everyone again for your participation. We will be sending an email to all participants soon with more details, please allow us some time for this email to be prepared. A little patience and courtesy goes a long a way in this mysterious life we have on this tiny blue dot (shout out to Ataxian, wherever you are!). The Convector was launched Feb 10, today is March 1st, "the game hasn't even started yet".
-Shipping Rates: We've made some adjustments to our shipping rates according to feedback from the community. Free domestic (USA) shipping on orders of $125 or greater, $7 flat rate otherwise. International Shipping rate is now set to $20 flat rate, easing the burden of higher fees for international customers.
-NEW Parts section has been added to the website. As many have requested, you can now purchase individual Convector components! Pick up some spare parts or mix and match to complete your ideal setup.
-A reminder that Camouflet is in startup phase and we will be making adjustments as we progress. More to come!

Now back to our regular scheduled program.

Oh My God Omg GIF by The Office
 
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rollerskater

Well-Known Member
What was the point of is buying it early?
I ONLY bought the unit early because it was cheaper to do so, if I had known they would say fuck the discount codes "only for FC BTW" were just going to lower the price for everyone fuck those "VIP"
well dont do that next time. this is just unsolicited advice. im no financial advisor but getting in on the bleeding edge of things is generally a way to lose money, not to save it.

i get you though, it isnt just about the money. i do agree there could have been some public communication around this decision, especially if youre (camouflet) soliciting forum members' opinions and calling us vips or whatever. we definitely arent *owed* anything but when you sell 17 of the first 20 to forum members it would just be nice to be kept in the loop. its a bad look i think for tinctorus's situation (finding out about a price drop after the fact, from logging on to the website, not even in an email) to even be possible. patience and courtesy does go both ways, not least because we're personally conversing with each other and not just making faceless website orders from s&b or whatever.

i think it is important for companies to be aware that people are not rational actors and that as buyers we get attached to things like price, and first impressions matter. i even said in my post earlier that the 40% was an acceptable discount for a seconds quality stem and now that's been wiped out (they are sending me a new stem, so it actually hasn't, but you know*). but really, at the end of the day, thats just the way she goes... if you want stability then you have to buy from established companies. product cheaper now pretty much always comes with tradeoffs later when improvements are made, manufacturing is firmly established, processes are codified, etc.

But all you lost in the process is the sense that you got a special, exclusive deal. You still paid less than list, still got a nice device. Better for them to adjust now and disappoint you by $4.60 than to die in the crib, no?

i agree with the thrust of this post but getting the deal is *important* to a lot of people, not to mention having the deal *taken away* - just ask jc penney. if youre never given something- fine. if its snatched out of your hands- thats a profound loss. i see this play out in real time often when playing games: deny an opponent the action and they figure out something else to do, but if you are able to effectively *undo* the action they get tilted first and then they decide to figure out something else to do.

tl;dr psychological losses can be as important to customers as material losses

finally, in any case, as camouflet have alluded to, raw price isnt the only way for early adopters to "be taken care of", so we'll see what happens. 20 is ultimately a miniscule amount of units and they have plenty of room to grow, hopefully to the point where the occasional mad customer can't vibrate the needle on public perception.

onward and upward as they say

*as a postscript, camouflet contacted me in pm asking for photos of what i described. i sent them and they informed me i would be receiving a new stem, with the assurance that they would be examining their manufacturing and qc processes. at no point did i ask for any sort of compensation. imo sort of a bare minimum customer service test but passed with full marks, no notes.
 

coolbreeze

Well-Known Member
i agree with the thrust of this post but getting the deal is *important* to a lot of people, not to mention having the deal *taken away* - just ask jc penney. if youre never given something- fine. if its snatched out of your hands- thats a profound loss. i see this play out in real time often when playing games: deny an opponent the action and they figure out something else to do, but if you are able to effectively *undo* the action they get tilted first and then they decide to figure out something else to do.

tl;dr psychological losses can be as important to customers as material losses
I understand your point completely, and part of what I was trying to do was to get inside that psychology to liberate him from that feeling. He hasn't actually lost anything, he's gained, even if it's smaller than he thought.

But I agree with your overall point that this was a communication snafu: if they had come and explained this all before they actually adjusted the website, everyone would have felt better about it, especially with the willingness shown to make it up to us.

I really just don't want @tinctorus to feel too badly about this as it's more likely clumsiness rather than malice or trickery. He should be able to enjoy his piece and feel good about it, without assumptions about motives that would rightly make one feel bitter, if true. It doesn't look true, though.
 

tinctorus

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
well dont do that next time. this is just unsolicited advice. im no financial advisor but getting in on the bleeding edge of things is generally a way to lose money, not to save it.

i get you though, it isnt just about the money. i do agree there could have been some public communication around this decision, especially if youre (camouflet) soliciting forum members' opinions and calling us vips or whatever. we definitely arent *owed* anything but when you sell 17 of the first 20 to forum members it would just be nice to be kept in the loop. its a bad look i think for tinctorus's situation (finding out about a price drop after the fact, from logging on to the website, not even in an email) to even be possible. patience and courtesy does go both ways, not least because we're personally conversing with each other and not just making faceless website orders from s&b or whatever.

i think it is important for companies to be aware that people are not rational actors and that as buyers we get attached to things like price, and first impressions matter. i even said in my post earlier that the 40% was an acceptable discount for a seconds quality stem and now that's been wiped out (they are sending me a new stem, so it actually hasn't, but you know*). but really, at the end of the day, thats just the way she goes... if you want stability then you have to buy from established companies. product cheaper now pretty much always comes with tradeoffs later when improvements are made, manufacturing is firmly established, processes are codified, etc.



i agree with the thrust of this post but getting the deal is *important* to a lot of people, not to mention having the deal *taken away* - just ask jc penney. if youre never given something- fine. if its snatched out of your hands- thats a profound loss. i see this play out in real time often when playing games: deny an opponent the action and they figure out something else to do, but if you are able to effectively *undo* the action they get tilted first and then they decide to figure out something else to do.

tl;dr psychological losses can be as important to customers as material losses

finally, in any case, as camouflet have alluded to, raw price isnt the only way for early adopters to "be taken care of", so we'll see what happens. 20 is ultimately a miniscule amount of units and they have plenty of room to grow, hopefully to the point where the occasional mad customer can't vibrate the needle on public perception.

onward and upward as they say

*as a postscript, camouflet contacted me in pm asking for photos of what i described. i sent them and they informed me i would be receiving a new stem, with the assurance that they would be examining their manufacturing and qc processes. at no point did i ask for any sort of compensation. imo sort of a bare minimum customer service test but passed with full marks, no notes.
You put this into words much better than I ever could have 🙏
You also pretty much hit the nail on the head about why I was mad, I was logging onto the website to grab the link for a review of all things

Also fwiw cool Breeze I never said I lost anything, I said I felt screwed and lied to...
 
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tinctorus

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
I understand that that's how you felt. I just expected that less nefarious motives were actually behind the offer and the price change.
They're a new company and mistakes happen, I just don't like feeling how I did yesterday, but I'm curious to see what they do to make things right according to their email
 

coolbreeze

Well-Known Member
Right on. We see brand new companies coming through launching first-time products and there's a misstep of some sort every now and again. Usually it's handled pretty well, but it bears saying something when you don't feel right. Sounds like they have fun things planned for us, and I think people who like manual vapes are gonna find this one a nice addition to the arsenal, and at a better price, frankly.

I'd like to see where they take it and how it gets refined over time.
 
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tinctorus

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
Right on. We see brand new companies coming through launching first-time products and there's a misstep of some sort every now and again. Usually it's handled pretty well, but it bears saying something when you don't feel right. Sounds like they have fun things planned for us, and I think people who like manual vapes are gonna find this one a nice addition to the arsenal, and at a better price, frankly.

I'd like to see where they take it and how it gets refined over time.
Yeah I've got no complaints about the device really, it gives great flavor and it does what it should pretty well, the quality of the unit itself is leaps and bounds nicer m a Dynavap... The machining was top notch on my unit
Overall im happy with the unit itself
 

Xclerk

The Universe is our endless supply
Check your email peeps. Took advantage scooped another and a spare tip and cap. I wanted one for just ih use. Got an early RWW glass stem that i have a feeling is going to pair wonderfully. Its been just over a week and its held a place on my bench. Excited to see what they come up with
 

Zuhdj

Charles Mingus
I have 2 idea may help eliminate stirring.

1. I LOVE the low heat mass because i can ride the line and, if its too hot, the cap usually releases its heat before the herb combusts. But the downside is that the cap cools before the herb on the other side of the bowl is at temp. I think adding a few extra layers in the heater will allow for that heat to last just slightly longer to heat that farther herb too cuz consider this: as the air travels through the bowl and releases heat into the herb, it cools. So the bottom of the bowl will take more time to reach vaping temp than the top.

2. You could have a rod on the inside of the cap that would reach into the bowl, sort of stabbing a hole in it. Now, if this rod was off center or even close to the edge, you could stir the bowl without removing the cap.

Just some ideas as I can't experiment.

Also, what size screen is in there. I NEED to replace it.
 

seriousTone

Well-Known Member
I love both of your ideas ESPECIALLY the rod in the cap one - not knowing how feasible it is though.

And I also am wondering now if more heat exchangers were added to the cap, maybe double, but also set further from the bowl as well.
Because I'm still just using the half filled bowl method and getting no charring anymore but I think if I were to fill the whole bowl, the top of the load would be charring.

Or maybe I need to revisit full bowl packs now that I've more technique down - maybe dual jet for full pack is a no no but for half pack it seems perfect to me.

I'm honestly not loving using a single jet torch, while the chance of charring or combusting is greatly reduced, it seems like the heat up time for a good hit takes forever. And once the herb is already a medium brown, it seems very hard to get a solid last hit that would bring the herb to a dark brown, without going too far. I find I have to test hit multiple times, but if it's not hot enough, I've cooled the cap and have to reheat from the start.

What don't you like about the screen @Zuhdj ? So far I really like it, seems like the grasshopper screen where it never gets gunked or clogged.

EDIT: I also figured out if you can hold the stem upside down in your palm while its still warm and then rap the bowl with your torch with your other hand, most if not all the herb comes out decently easy enough and you can kind of get it stirred up in your palm and suck it back up into the bowl.
 
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coolbreeze

Well-Known Member
Because I'm still just using the half filled bowl method and getting no charring anymore but I think if I were to fill the whole bowl, the top of the load would be charring.
I like both those ideas, too! I have to admit that I feel like I'm getting handier with this and some of the difficulties are receding. I've been filling it a bit more (2/3-3/4) and I'm starting to get pretty even results all the way through, with little/no need to stir becoming more common. I think it's just a gentle heating of just the top & top edge that's doing it, and it's making decent amounts of nice, tasty vapor.

I have also been playing with the whole setup (rather than the tip on a wpa) and I like it more and more. I think one thing I'd like to see improved is adding some width and grip lines at the top of the stem to aid in spinning. Hate to mess with the visual profile, but it would help.
 

SpacelyJetson

Well-Known Member
Yeh. This will be my new travel buddy since it so small. This and me Wand. Hell I wish the wand was a bit smaller now, but o well.

It's so convenient. Initial 15 flash heatup (Cant beat that) gets a great lungful of delightful and delectable vapor. And lemme tell you the exhale not only taste good, it smells great. Had some company over and she said OMG. Whatever you just blew out smells soooooo good.

This week I got Cherry Diesel, Gelatti Mints and Chem D. I barely do back to back hits..I just sit back and savor the flavor after the first one.

Is it convection? Is it conduction? Is it conjuction? I dont care. I call it Confunkshun
 
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