Boundless CF / CFX / CF-Hybrid
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KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
Interesting, I didn't know. Thanks for the precision.
Makes you wonder how they count their capacity. If those figures are true there should be a huge difference in battery life between the two.
We know from the CFX teardown that it's using two LG HE2 in series (or alternatively Samsung 25R) and the 2500mAh figure corresponds indeed to their capacity.
Now for the CF, either the figure is wrong and it's the same HE2 cell, in which case it would have nearly half the capacity but it would also have a weaker heater (we don't know what the system parameters are but there's little room with a 20A continuous discharge cell to output 80W)
Either the figure is right, but I can't find any 18650 sold as 1300mAh from a quick glance, in which case it could be a custom Li-Po pack or it's one of the 1500mAh 30A 18650 cells (but why would they understate the capacity?) If this is the case the CF could have the same peak power output as the CFX, but it would have at worst only 1/4 of the CFX battery life.
Something's spiffy!
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I can
I can explain easily, because I had the same question.
The cf and cfx do not use 3.7 v 18650 standard
batteries . They use 7.4 batteries which means that the dont have to increase the Voltage much in order to work and thats why the cf is only 1300mah.
If it was 3.7 v then the equal size will be
2600mah.
I hope you got my point, it is the laws of elecricity if you liked physics at school.
Wattage equals voltage² divided by the resistance.
Interesting, I didn't know. Thanks for the precision.
Makes you wonder how they count their capacity. If those figures are true there should be a huge difference in battery life between the two.
We know from the CFX teardown that it's using two LG HE2 in series (or alternatively Samsung 25R) and the 2500mAh figure corresponds indeed to their capacity.
Now for the CF, either the figure is wrong and it's the same HE2 cell, in which case it would have nearly half the capacity but it would also have a weaker heater (we don't know what the system parameters are but there's little room with a 20A continuous discharge cell to output 80W)
Either the figure is right, but I can't find any 18650 sold as 1300mAh from a quick glance, in which case it could be a custom Li-Po pack or it's one of the 1500mAh 30A 18650 cells (but why would they understate the capacity?) If this is the case the CF could have the same peak power output as the CFX, but it would have at worse only 1/4 of the CFX battery life.
Something's spiffy!
I can explain easily, because I had the same question.
The cf and cfx do not use 3.7 v 18650 standard
batteries . They use 7.4 batteries which means that the dont have to increase the Voltage much in order to work and thats why the cf is only 1300mah.
If it was 3.7 v then the equal size will be
2600mah.
I hope you got my point, it is the laws of elecricity if you liked physics at school.
Wattage equals voltage² divided by the resistance.
Last edited:
Likes2vape
Well-Known Member
Has anyone else had the cf turn on when in their pocket? I have had this happen a couple of times now. Kinda scary when all of a sudden it feels hot in your pocket. Like WTF is going on!!
I think it's because the button for the cf isn't recessed like it is on the cfx and ends up getting pushed in for 5 seconds or longer. I have never had it happen with the cfx.
I think it's because the button for the cf isn't recessed like it is on the cfx and ends up getting pushed in for 5 seconds or longer. I have never had it happen with the cfx.
KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
Well we do know from this teardown: http://blog.puffitup.com/2016/08/boundless-cfx-tear-down-piece-by-piece/ that the CFX is using two LG HE2 in series (or alternatively two Samsung 25R) for a nominal voltage of 7.4V so there's no suspense here, it's indeed using two 18650 standard high discharge Li-Ions. The question is about the CF battery only.
What makes you think they are using a step-up converter and not a step-down converter instead? Did you reverse engineer your device? Do you know the heater resistance value? That's why I said that without knowing the system parameters we're only guessing.
You see they could be using say a 1.5ohm heater with a boost circuit set to 10.95V @ 7.3A (80W) or using say a sub-ohm 0.2ohm heater with a buck circuit set to 4V @ 20A (80W)
Of course if the CF is only 3.7V nominal (single cell) then the second scenario (step down) is very unlikely (would require a really low resistance heater to work) but it's still plausible for the CFX case.
Vapor_Eyes
taste buds
I have no proof of battery life because I have no CF but all user reports point to the same performance. Also, the manufacturer itself has claimed the same in the past, which may be where I first saw it:
Maybe the cfx uses two 3.7 batteries in serial and have 7.4 in total in voltage, but the cf is one battery and it is 7.4 for sure imo.
stickstones
Vapor concierge
My CF heats up in the same time as the CFX.
Any chance it was in sleep mode after a session? In this mode, a constant button press of two seconds will turn it back on. If it's truly off, it will be harder to accidentally turn on with 5-clicks in two seconds.
Any chance it was in sleep mode after a session? In this mode, a constant button press of two seconds will turn it back on. If it's truly off, it will be harder to accidentally turn on with 5-clicks in two seconds.
Likes2vape
Well-Known Member
Yeah it was in sleep mode. I find the cf harder to turn off than the cfx if you let the timer run out. Like you gotta click the power button 20 times or something. I almost never do a hard shut any more on either one though and have never had the cfx turn on in my pocket.
KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
Right, it's quite possible that they used a custom 7.4V 1300mAh Li-Po pouch pack in the CF with a 30A or higher discharge rate, in order to match the power output of the CFX.
Alright, this could confirm the same power output hypothesis. Then could you comment about the battery life between the two units?
Cl4ud3
Well-Known Member
From a paint the moon review:-
"The units function nearly the same, but the CFX offers that cool display, individual temp control, a larger battery, vibration, the mouthpiece magnet, and a more premium aesthetic."
and
"The Boundless CF comes with a 1300mAh battery and the CFX comes in at 2500mAh.
The micro USB charging is pretty fast, and they even recommend using a 2.0 amp charger (huge plus for me), but the CFX comes packed with a pretty neat trick.
With an included AC/DC wall charger, the CFX can “quick charge” from zero battery to full in half an hour when plugged into the DC port, as opposed to the 2 hour, 2amp micro USB charging."
Edit:- I don't have a CF to test against the CFX but I do have a Hybrid, the heatup is a lot faster on the CFX than the Hybrid and its supposed to be similar to a CF.
"The units function nearly the same, but the CFX offers that cool display, individual temp control, a larger battery, vibration, the mouthpiece magnet, and a more premium aesthetic."
and
"The Boundless CF comes with a 1300mAh battery and the CFX comes in at 2500mAh.
The micro USB charging is pretty fast, and they even recommend using a 2.0 amp charger (huge plus for me), but the CFX comes packed with a pretty neat trick.
With an included AC/DC wall charger, the CFX can “quick charge” from zero battery to full in half an hour when plugged into the DC port, as opposed to the 2 hour, 2amp micro USB charging."
Edit:- I don't have a CF to test against the CFX but I do have a Hybrid, the heatup is a lot faster on the CFX than the Hybrid and its supposed to be similar to a CF.
Likes2vape
Well-Known Member
I notice no difference in heat up time between the cf and cfx.
stickstones
Vapor concierge
This fucked me up for a while as well, and I've seen it pop up in at least one other vape. When the unit goes into sleep mode, a 5-click will turn it off. Then it needs another 5 clicks to turn it back on. So.....if you are in the habit of using it until it goes to sleep, getting into the habit of 5-clicking it off afterward should help you avoid the unwanted power ups.
Vapor Trails
Well-Known Member
I'm shaking and very sick and need to smoke asap, but will try to communicate the best I can. Having real issues today.
Got the CFX and didn't really notice a smell. Once heated it was a strong odor. For a couple of hours or more I have been doing burn offs. Everything is iso'd. After multiple burn offs there's no change, because the path leading to the heater doesn't get hot and it is not possible to access from the bottom for cleaning.
I connected the WPA into a female to male 18mm, and sealed it with the O-Ring on my Volcano bowl. I inverted the unit with the temperature on both units at max and the Volcano pump on to force heat thru the path. Yes, I explained all of this to the manufacturer a few minutes ago on the phone. Anyway, I made a complete seal and forced hot air out the rear of the unit for around a total of 50 minutes of starting and stopping. I overheated the unit multiple times and know it is hot, and put my finger above the rear grill burned my fingers a bit from the hot forced air. After several burn offs using that method, I iso'd the chamber again and put the mouthpiece on which oils/odor was removed from. I took a dry pull with nothing in and got an intense taste. Tried it a few more times and started to have a reaction. So, repeat inverting burn offs using forced air from the Volcano pump to force air out of the bottom of the CFX. I did this for another 30 minutes (multiple sessions) to be sure enough heat held thru the entire path hot enough for long enough to vaporize the residue in the main entry path at the bottom of the unit. Bowl completely smells like chemicals again after iso'ing. My home smells like a mix between what you smell when the dentist grinds on your teeth, plastic, and silicone, because air was pumping thru the back for so long at high heat.
Anyhow, super disappointed. The puffitup teardown shows a great vapor path, but that path is spoiled by the residuals from production. The factory admitted to this residue that they said of course is from the manufacturing process, but they do not actually know what the chemical is. Anyhow, I was offered to send it in so they could see if they could find one with less smell. I explained after this many burnoffs and the methods I used, this residual oil more than likely would not vaporize by simply getting another unit. They said they would clean it for me, and I thought "That would be great!", and I said "Yes, that would be great. All that needs to be done is remove the path and clean it out". They said they can't take it apart or access the bottom path. So, there is nothing the factory can do to make an oil burn off that came from manufacturing 'If We Don't even have a Clue of the boiling point of this residual oil is to know the temp to vaporize the residue off', and not a one of us can say we know the boiling point of an oil that we nor that manufacturer can identify...
So bummed. Sick, going to medicate. Be back after while.
My reasoning for typing this is for the lurkers with cancer and chemical sensitivities that are not members and are simply researching. Im a research freak, often until I get very nauseous from staying awake and researching too long while my mind is in focus on the subject or object I am studying/researching. Yes, the materials in the path of this product are pure, and you can see that on the puffitup teardown. What you won't hear them speak of and cannot see is the residual oils from manufacturing, but then again Puffitup may have never used the unit to know it needs burnoffs etc. So, medically safe components? Yes, but if you have chemical sensitivities you either need to be prepared to possibly have to return your unit, or steer clear altogether until you see this forum say that either the oil has been identified, the residue is no longer in the units, or the housing is revised for a bottom access port so you can clean it. Again, you cannot clean the long skinny path below the heater. I did ask them on the phone to go ahead and add to their list that these units need to have the grill so it is removable and the bottom of the path is cleanable. As it stands, all dust etc is going straight thru the bottom, entering the path, because there is no filter like on the bottom intake on a Volcano, and when it does build up you cannot access the bottom to be cleaned. The guy on the phone did seem to be in agreement with the verbal tone change after explaining "This unit by fact can never be cleaned completely, because the bottom is not accessible".
I don't want anyone seriously ill like me with extreme chemical sensitivities to be lurking, decide to buy this unit, and then possibly have a reaction. For us extremely sick, we just can't risk inhaling from something that could 'possibly' harm us, and is unidentified. This will be the unit for you if they make the unit accessible on the bottom side. This would allow you to completely clean the unit, but until then...be safe, buy what you know for fact cannot possibly be of any harm to your health. If it is at all in question, steer clear.
EDIT: OK, unbiased. My family has to bring me food every day because of how sick I am, and rarely get to leave home. My Mom just showed up while typing this. I did not explain anything, and I inverted the unit again on the Volcano and I said "Put your nose over it while the air is running out the back and tell me what you smell." to get an unbiased opinion from someone not expecting any odor. She said "It smells like plastic", and this was after the however many hours Ive been trying to get rid of the smell and taste.
If anyone feels that the oil is safe, keep in mind what happens when someone with Amalgam fillings simply chews gum. It releases vapor and absorbs in the roof of your mouth etc. In a lifetime, someone could chew gum every day for 70 years, and at 70 years those Amalgam fillings still release vapor. It does not vaporize and stop harming your body, and it is not like herb where heating it enough times will do so, and for all we know, this oil could release chemicals for years of use. No way to know because again, no one knows what it is to say they know exactly what it's doing to us, and to simply "assume" it is safe is a big gamble. Again, assuming that over a period of time this unknown chemical will evaporate or vaporize and no longer release is unknown, regardless of opinions, they will never make facts. This issue is simply left at question. We don't know if the oil would be like herb, eventually vaporizing, or like Amalgam fillings, and every use of the unit is possibly putting something bad in your body, but no one knows, again, since no one knows what the oil is to even know the boiling point. Obviously it is way above the 430-440 degree range, because the smell still pours into my house everytime I inverted and try a burnoff again. I understand that proud owners will no like this post, but again, this is for the lurkers who are very sick with major chemical sensitivities and researching this device.
Got the CFX and didn't really notice a smell. Once heated it was a strong odor. For a couple of hours or more I have been doing burn offs. Everything is iso'd. After multiple burn offs there's no change, because the path leading to the heater doesn't get hot and it is not possible to access from the bottom for cleaning.
I connected the WPA into a female to male 18mm, and sealed it with the O-Ring on my Volcano bowl. I inverted the unit with the temperature on both units at max and the Volcano pump on to force heat thru the path. Yes, I explained all of this to the manufacturer a few minutes ago on the phone. Anyway, I made a complete seal and forced hot air out the rear of the unit for around a total of 50 minutes of starting and stopping. I overheated the unit multiple times and know it is hot, and put my finger above the rear grill burned my fingers a bit from the hot forced air. After several burn offs using that method, I iso'd the chamber again and put the mouthpiece on which oils/odor was removed from. I took a dry pull with nothing in and got an intense taste. Tried it a few more times and started to have a reaction. So, repeat inverting burn offs using forced air from the Volcano pump to force air out of the bottom of the CFX. I did this for another 30 minutes (multiple sessions) to be sure enough heat held thru the entire path hot enough for long enough to vaporize the residue in the main entry path at the bottom of the unit. Bowl completely smells like chemicals again after iso'ing. My home smells like a mix between what you smell when the dentist grinds on your teeth, plastic, and silicone, because air was pumping thru the back for so long at high heat.
Anyhow, super disappointed. The puffitup teardown shows a great vapor path, but that path is spoiled by the residuals from production. The factory admitted to this residue that they said of course is from the manufacturing process, but they do not actually know what the chemical is. Anyhow, I was offered to send it in so they could see if they could find one with less smell. I explained after this many burnoffs and the methods I used, this residual oil more than likely would not vaporize by simply getting another unit. They said they would clean it for me, and I thought "That would be great!", and I said "Yes, that would be great. All that needs to be done is remove the path and clean it out". They said they can't take it apart or access the bottom path. So, there is nothing the factory can do to make an oil burn off that came from manufacturing 'If We Don't even have a Clue of the boiling point of this residual oil is to know the temp to vaporize the residue off', and not a one of us can say we know the boiling point of an oil that we nor that manufacturer can identify...
So bummed. Sick, going to medicate. Be back after while.
My reasoning for typing this is for the lurkers with cancer and chemical sensitivities that are not members and are simply researching. Im a research freak, often until I get very nauseous from staying awake and researching too long while my mind is in focus on the subject or object I am studying/researching. Yes, the materials in the path of this product are pure, and you can see that on the puffitup teardown. What you won't hear them speak of and cannot see is the residual oils from manufacturing, but then again Puffitup may have never used the unit to know it needs burnoffs etc. So, medically safe components? Yes, but if you have chemical sensitivities you either need to be prepared to possibly have to return your unit, or steer clear altogether until you see this forum say that either the oil has been identified, the residue is no longer in the units, or the housing is revised for a bottom access port so you can clean it. Again, you cannot clean the long skinny path below the heater. I did ask them on the phone to go ahead and add to their list that these units need to have the grill so it is removable and the bottom of the path is cleanable. As it stands, all dust etc is going straight thru the bottom, entering the path, because there is no filter like on the bottom intake on a Volcano, and when it does build up you cannot access the bottom to be cleaned. The guy on the phone did seem to be in agreement with the verbal tone change after explaining "This unit by fact can never be cleaned completely, because the bottom is not accessible".
I don't want anyone seriously ill like me with extreme chemical sensitivities to be lurking, decide to buy this unit, and then possibly have a reaction. For us extremely sick, we just can't risk inhaling from something that could 'possibly' harm us, and is unidentified. This will be the unit for you if they make the unit accessible on the bottom side. This would allow you to completely clean the unit, but until then...be safe, buy what you know for fact cannot possibly be of any harm to your health. If it is at all in question, steer clear.
EDIT: OK, unbiased. My family has to bring me food every day because of how sick I am, and rarely get to leave home. My Mom just showed up while typing this. I did not explain anything, and I inverted the unit again on the Volcano and I said "Put your nose over it while the air is running out the back and tell me what you smell." to get an unbiased opinion from someone not expecting any odor. She said "It smells like plastic", and this was after the however many hours Ive been trying to get rid of the smell and taste.
If anyone feels that the oil is safe, keep in mind what happens when someone with Amalgam fillings simply chews gum. It releases vapor and absorbs in the roof of your mouth etc. In a lifetime, someone could chew gum every day for 70 years, and at 70 years those Amalgam fillings still release vapor. It does not vaporize and stop harming your body, and it is not like herb where heating it enough times will do so, and for all we know, this oil could release chemicals for years of use. No way to know because again, no one knows what it is to say they know exactly what it's doing to us, and to simply "assume" it is safe is a big gamble. Again, assuming that over a period of time this unknown chemical will evaporate or vaporize and no longer release is unknown, regardless of opinions, they will never make facts. This issue is simply left at question. We don't know if the oil would be like herb, eventually vaporizing, or like Amalgam fillings, and every use of the unit is possibly putting something bad in your body, but no one knows, again, since no one knows what the oil is to even know the boiling point. Obviously it is way above the 430-440 degree range, because the smell still pours into my house everytime I inverted and try a burnoff again. I understand that proud owners will no like this post, but again, this is for the lurkers who are very sick with major chemical sensitivities and researching this device.
Vapor_Eyes
taste buds
I'm sorry to hear about your experience.
At the same time, I'm a little horrified at your method of burn-offs. You were blowing hot air the wrong way from the Volcano, into the CFX which had its heater on. This likely introduced much more heat than the CFX will ever produce natively and more than it was designed for.
Many vaporizers specifically warn against blowing into the heater area. I can't imagine forcing air through it while it is on can be good for it. Even the safest product can be unsafe if used incorrectly.
Burnoffs are overrated and largely unnecessary voodoo. I admit I do one or two quick ones with a new vape but then I dive right in.
I don't mean to say that safety isn't important to me. It is very important.
My safety starts when I research the vape. By the time I buy it I am confident in its safety. I would never buy a vape if that wasn't the case.
Hot stuff smells hot. Hot plastic smells like plastic. My Grasshopper smells like hot metal when it is hot. A new furnace will have a certain smell when in use. That doesn't mean it's not safe to breathe the air.
The initial smell probably had nothing to do with the airpath and was completely outside of it. At this point I personally wouldn't trust the internal airpath of your unit, after what happened.
I am truly sorry it didn't work out for you, and I hope you resolve this situation to your satisfaction, whether it takes a new unit or refund.
hillbill
Well-Known Member
Thought my Flowermate mini x may have auto started when brand new but hasn't since the first couple days(Smiss makes both brands) but please report as this can be dangerous in physical as well as legal ways.
Cl4ud3
Well-Known Member
Yeah this is bad, sorry you had this experience. I had a slight taste/smell in my unit when it first arrived, did the whole cover in ISO wash and burn offs, taste/smell was still there. Soon as I got the ELB mod in the taste had completely gone, never used it without the mod after that but I can say it has gone 100%.
Again sucks that this has happened to someone with chem sensitivities, I'm sure things will get sorted for you though and quickly, one thing with Boundless they do seem to have great customer service.
Vapor Trails
Well-Known Member
It was to burn off the oils leading to the heater. After cooling off, room temperature introduced the same amount of smell and taste after this. In kther words, it did not eliminate the issue.
My concern was for the safety of my body rather than concern of the unit, knowingly and admitting to the factory of how I was performing my method, with them understanding and knowing the oil needs to be removed from the lower portion of the path. A few times I intentionally overheated it to try to remove the oils so they would not be inhaled at "Room" temp. This did not work. So, while temperatures were introduced to the lower portion that never would be in the future, it removed none of the issue when back to room temperature. Raising the lower portion above a heat it would never meet again was to eliminate this possibility, but did not.
Gah, screwed up a reply. Ignore
Likes2vape
Well-Known Member
With my cf I have to either hold the button down to get it out of sleep and then hit the button 5 times or hit the button 10 times 5 to wake it up and 5 more to turn it off.
It was my fault it turned it on. I didn't turn it off and left it in sleep mode before putting in my pocket.
stickstones
Vapor concierge
When it goes to sleep and you haven't woken it up yet, 5 clicks should turn it off. Then another 5 clicks to turn it on again. I don't think you need to wake it up to turn it off.
Cl4ud3
Well-Known Member
yep that's right, 5 clicks will turn it off from sleep, no need to wake it up.