**Ball vape comparison megathread** Compare your balls.

[Shit Snacks]

Lol no HL? He came out way before all those others and it's diy, is your list for diy or just purchased units plug and play?

If you read through the thread you would see that they were limited on how many products they could list in the poll, nothing intentional about what was excluded, if you read here others have already mentioned it... And if you read my post above and below, I don't consider the HL to be in the same category as other ball vapes, I think halogen is its own thing despite the fact that there are some balls in it...

I’m not familiar with the atlas aside from pictures but I guess with less thermal mass I would think it would just be a less effective ball vape. It’s just the physics of it: there’s less mass to hold and transfer heat. The glass and heater might make for a more pure taste than something like a ti body. I guess the alternative would be that the heater itself is putting out more calories of energy and just not relying on the balls to store the excess as much as to force the air to be in contact with the heat source.

I think you missed my point, the Atlas has more thermal mass, it is ceramic cartridge with more rubies as the main heating element, the Halo relies on the halogen bulb as the heating element, there are some rubies and steel mesh to help disperse the heat etc. The overall mass is different, it is relying on the halogen to heat primarily, whereas Atlas and these others are relying on the balls themselves, that is what I consider a ball vape. Halogen vape is a different category imo

Either way it’s still following the same design pattern in a slightly different configuration was more my point. It’s not a fundamentally different tech to heat the air, so I guess for me it’s still a ball cape, even if the design wasn’t necessarily intended to hang with the heavier hitters as much as to chase after purity of flavor. I think that’s the point of this thread, right? There’s not an objective best, but there might be one designed more for flavor (heater not in direct contact with the air path, all glass air path vs ti/ceramic body and heater directly in the airpath) that user a prefers while user b prefers that design that’s just chasing after huge efficient rips.

Yeah my point is I disagree, it is not the same design pattern, despite the similarities. It's another category of vape like a regular log is another category itself

 

[Texus]

So it seems like these are the main parameters that are worth considering for someone in the market for ball vapes:

1. Heater type (ceramic rod, coil, halogen, am I forgetting anything else?)
2. Mass of balls being heated (and proximity of balls to heater, for example, CH discovered that more balls that weren't as close to the heater proved detrimental when designing injector style B2)
3. Mass of injector being heated
4. Proportion of heat coming from heating element vs stored and released from balls (see @Shit Snacks comments on halogen above, I'd still consider Halogen vapes a sub-category of ball vapes)
5. Material of injector (titanium, steel, quartz, ceramic, am I forgetting anything else?)
6. Heat-up time and refraction period to get back to temp (related to all 5 of the above)
7. Controller type (PID, VVPS, box mod, am I forgetting anything else?)
8. Depth of injector insertion/getting a synergy between injector and bowl (Halo and B0 for example insert to different bowl depths, which is why I love that @VGOODIEZ has two size injector bowls & their awesome bowl/passthrough hybrids)
9. Material of bowl (glass, wood, ceramic, titanium, ceramic)
10. Ball material (especially important if balls not user replaceable)
11. Ball size (especially important if balls not user replaceable)
12. Airflow (huge factor not to be overlooked IMHO, affected by size of air inlet and outlet openings for air to flow through and amount of air between balls)
13. Ability to do double deckers, and is that with or without a proper dabbing dish like the B2 has.
14. Ergonomics of using the device
15. Ease of cleaning (prob applies more to double decker devices that are pulling concentrate thru the balls)
16. Durability
17. Portability
18. Aesthetics
19. Safety (presence of any exposed parts you could burn yourself on)
20. Extras included or available (stands, cab caps, CH PID case, etc)

Yes, some of these are interrelated and not mutually exclusive. And at first I wrote "short list" then it got to 20 items. Sure I'll realize later I've forgotten something.

In conclusion, not all ball vapes are created equal, though some may be very similar (thinking Titi, B0 & Pinky for example).

 

[oddjobold]

What I was hoping was that someone with multiple ball vapes could give us some performance comparisons. That would be really helpful for the potential buyer looking at the first ball vape.

 

[pxl_jockey]

Need someone like @ShayWhiteGrow or @VGOODIEZ to chime in with their experiences maybe? I‘m not sure that any member has owned/tried most or all of the ball vapes but @stickstones would be my humble suggestion, since he & Troy seem to try everything out there.

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

@Shit Snacks and @gordontreeman this seems mostly a semantic issue? For Snacks ball vape means something like a device that uses balls as a primary source of heat for the air, for Gordon it's probably just any device that uses balls in the heating setup no matter how small its impact on heating. I don't think you actually disagree lol you just use the word differently

 

[Shit Snacks]

@Shit Snacks and @gordontreeman this seems mostly a semantic issue? For Snacks ball vape means something like a device that uses balls as a primary source of heat for the air, for Gordon it's probably just any device that uses balls in the heating setup no matter how small its impact on heating. I don't think you actually disagree lol you just use the word differently

Yeah, personally, there were halogen vapes that didn't have balls in them before, I just don't think these newer ones classify as ball vapes per se is all, I think they are just better designed halogen vapes (all are unique lol)

 

[thunderstealer1337]

Yeah, personally, there were halogen vapes that didn't have balls in them before, I just don't think these newer ones classify as ball vapes per se is all, I think they are just better designed halogen vapes (all are unique lol)

Lol remove balls from all the other vapes you listed and it's literally the same thing.

Some type of heat minus balls.

Maybe op can adjust his poll he has like multiple from same mfg or even add a other?

Not calling them ball vapes when they literally have balls is being too anal imo.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Lol remove balls from all the other vapes you listed and it's literally the same thing.

Some type of heat minus balls.

Maybe op can adjust his poll he has like multiple from same mfg or even add a other?

Not calling them ball vapes when they literally have balls is being too anal imo.

I guess I never thought of it, being like a log vape with a ceramic cartridge, just with added balls, I don't know it just didn't feel like the same thing to me, because I think of halogen as something itself special I guess? Calling everything that has balls a ball vape and assuming it's equal more or less just doesn't feel right to me anal or not but I won't comment anymore on the subject

 

[gordontreeman]

Yeah call it semantics or whatever, it’s not a hill I want to die on. I just mean that a ball vape seems to be any vape heated by any mechanism—enail coil, ceramic, or halogen bulb—that is using balls of some sort for the benefits they bring in terms of added mass and surface area.

It is conceivable that the heater type is impacting taste if it’s not isolated from the air path, but that means something other than air is in the airpath—the user can decide if that is pro or con or sde or not. Most of these vapes I think are going to be on the order of subtle for flavor differences though. Ti, glass, and I think ceramic are all supposed to be stable non reactive materials I believe.

 

[BabyFacedFinster]

I like this thread. A lot of talk about balls and injecting

I remember when the G43 was all the rage, and it was pretty much all Troy and Jerry used. Troy just pulled out his old battery powered unit in the last show.

I got all caught up in the rage a few weeks ago and almost bought a B0 one day and the Freight Train another. Luckily I waited until I wasn't high to make a decision and didn't go with either. Not because they aren't good options, but because I don't vape flower anymore. I wasn't so lucky with my Brillant Cut grinder. The colors are so pretty.

 

[Lobby]

This thread is making me want to buy one of each so that I could compare them all. Anyone want to help fund my research ?

 

[Jeeshy]

I bought a tiodw (fake ceroma from aliexpress) just for fun to compare to my b-zero. It's actually pretty great! It's more restricted than the b-zero and doesn't seem to milk quite as fast as the b-zero....But it's still wayyyy faster and more efficient than every other vape I own. If I bought this one first I would be pretty happy with it as my endgame I believe.

B-zero is still alot better in my opinion, But for less than half the money I gotta admit the tiodw is pretty respectable.

 

[oddjobold]

I bought a tiodw (fake ceroma from aliexpress) just for fun to compare to my b-zero. It's actually pretty great! It's more restricted than the b-zero and doesn't seem to milk quite as fast as the b-zero....But it's still wayyyy faster and more efficient than every other vape I own. If I bought this one first I would be pretty happy with it as my endgame I believe.

B-zero is still alot better in my opinion, But for less than half the money I gotta admit the tiodw is pretty respectable.

Thanks for the comparison!

 

[Zuhdj]

Having used the b-0 , ceroma, ssv43, highlighter, and b-2, I can say the b-2 is my favorite overall experience. IMO the shovel head is fantastic ergonomically (not so much economically) and the airflow is wide open. Feels like straight up hitting a bong. The b-0 is my own vape and it's really great as well but the injector gets stuck sometimes. Ceroma is great but fragile

I have an inverted Phase 3 coming in soon which seems like it'll trump both and taste better doing it. It's a 14mm ceramic injector. The injector is shallow so it won't stick (I hope) and the zirconia ceramic should taste nicer than the b-0 without sacrificing as much strength as the ceroma

 

[VGOODIEZ]

Lol no HL? He came out way before all those others and it's diy, is your list for diy or just purchased units plug and play?

I'm sorry I have to correct you here. The DCE was around before the HL. But to your point, the list is only a portion of what is available on the market.

Need someone like @ShayWhiteGrow or @VGOODIEZ to chime in with their experiences maybe? I‘m not sure that any member has owned/tried most or all of the ball vapes but @stickstones would be my humble suggestion, since he & Troy seem to try everything out there.

As much as I would like to add my two cents here I'm definitely not going to do it publicly here on FC. You see any comparison I make would include facts about my experience with these manufacturers. These facts would likely be interpreted as negative by the moderators here on FC and as a retailer my statements are very much limited to only positive comments based on the rules of the forum. Other individuals in this space are for some reason not tagged with these classifications and can therefore say what they want. It is the main reason I just don't participate much anymore on FC. Mostly answering questions and very rarely adding content on my own.

I will say this generally about ball vapes. In my opinion the main differences between them are typically subtle. In general the difference is the amount of airflow and difference in taste based on the materials they are made of. Obviously there are other factors like levels of safety and small design differences but how much impact those things have is very subjective.

 

[GoldenBud]

The GS XLR was the first vape to use beads? or there were something before?

damn it hitssss Jerry GS

and here's on 750F which i loved it so much, more like a session mode other than one huge hitter (400C, i liked it also with 380C)

 

[VGOODIEZ]

The GS XLR was the first vape to use beads? or there were something before?

Yes the glass symphony was the first I can recall that used balls in an injector format. I am very fortunate to own one of those.

 

[GoldenBud]

and the DCE is a very good successor overall, but its nature is to be smaller, hence require slower draws than the GS monster
edit
@VGOODIEZ but you think most people will prefer something like an elev8r power with wood cover and handle? so they can't hurt themself and also wood is very good looking insulator..

 

[VGOODIEZ]

and the DCE is a very good successor overall, but its nature is to be smaller, hence require slower draws than the GS monster
edit
@VGOODIEZ but you think most people will prefer something like an elev8r power with wood cover and handle? so they can't hurt themself and also wood is very good looking insulator..

It is definitely smaller. But I would definitely not say that it requires a slower draw. These ball vapes all require some effort to extract the energy stored up in the balls. That typically comes from a stiff draw which is a requirement of both the GS and DCE. I'll never forget the first time I ripped the GS and was underwhelmed. It wasn't until I later realized that you had to rip it hard to extract the energy that I understood what everybody was talking about. It is much the same with all of these newer ball units. But yes there are small differences in form that may get your attention over the other.

 

[invertedisdead]

More beads = more mass = worse airflow

Worse airflow = less turbulence = reduced performance

To get better airflow we need less mass.

To function with less mass we need less conduction lost to the bowl.

To achieve less conduction we need a more careful selection of materials used.

That's the essence of GemVection heating.

I think there's about 60 pages of this sort of information in my desktop thread.

 

[Texus]

More beads = more mass = worse airflow

Worse airflow = less turbulence = reduced performance

To get better airflow we need less mass.

To function with less mass we need less conduction lost to the bowl.

To achieve less conduction we need a more careful selection of materials used.

That's the essence of GemVection heating.

I think there's about 60 pages of this sort of information in my desktop thread, where I introduced the ruby ball vape concept.

So what are your takeaways here from this line of reasoning?

4mm instead of 3mm balls?

Would greater airflow achieved by other means such as wide openings at each end of the ball vape (incl 18mm male instead of 14mm male for injectors and ball vape bowls)?

Smaller chamber to hold balls?

I am also interested in any experiences with the Qaroma XL line. A lot more mass to heat there, but also potentially better airflow (the IIRC screens aren't used, but instead the more restrictive but potentially safer drilled holes that CH eventually moved away from except for top of B2). So I imagine this XL line could have advantages and disadvantages.

 

[GoldenBud]

More beads = more mass = worse airflow

Except the GS, huge air inlet... diameter of the intake is something like 10x-20x bigger than the ELEV8R, but we need to remember it also matters if you use 5mm or 3mm beads in your vape..... the air gets through the 5mm beads better,ofc

when you split the air intake into few intakes, splitted, like your vape, and TM, you get higher velocity of each airflow..... i think!
that's how people get rid of the disadvantage of not having huge intake like the GS

but overall you can get almost GS performance with smaller vape. I'm pretty sure of that! Splitting air intakes is one of the keys

 

[invertedisdead]

So what are your takeaways here from this line of reasoning?

4mm instead of 3mm balls?

Would greater airflow achieved by other means such as wide openings at each end of the ball vape (incl 18mm male instead of 14mm male for injectors and ball vape bowls)?

Smaller chamber to hold balls?

I am also interested in any experiences with the Qaroma XL line. A lot more mass to heat there, but also potentially better airflow (the IIRC screens aren't used, but instead the more restrictive but potentially safer drilled holes that CH eventually moved away from except for top of B2). So I imagine this XL line could have advantages and disadvantages.

It depends on the design as a whole, as there are multiple variables that together affect the way air flows through.

I've personally preferred 4MM in my designs for the more comfortable airflow. I don't like the throat strain that can come from a tight convection draw, so getting the airflow more comfortable has been something I've spent a lot of time on.

My latest version coming out soon, the 1.8, is specifically designed for 3MM beads and an optimized flow rate around that.

A smaller chamber is one part of the equation, as more beads creates more drag / resistance to airflow.

The 1.7 is very small compared to other ball vapes. Each one of my iterations has gotten smaller.

Except the GS, huge air inlet... diameter of the intake is something like 10x-20x bigger than the ELEV8R, but we need to remember it also matters if you use 5mm or 3mm beads in your vape..... the air gets through the 5mm beads better,ofc

when you split the air intake into few intakes, splitted, like your vape, and TM, you get higher velocity of each airflow..... i think!
that's how people get rid of the disadvantage of not having huge intake like the GS

but overall you can get almost GS performance with smaller vape. I'm pretty sure of that! Splitting air intakes is one of the keys

The GS was like 12 inches tall though, all that extra volume creates more resistance to fluid flow. Larger beads can help compensate for airflow at a loss to heated surface area. Higher velocities is where more turbulent mixing comes from.

It's more about optimizing the surface area, probably the very first experiment I did with a ball vape was thinking I could just add a bunch more beads and that would make a better vape (under the idea that more surface area = better) Instead it did the exact opposite.

 

[jonthehuman]

Proud freight train owner here... man does this thing hit... I turn it on in the morning at 600F and it's ready all day. There is an initial waste of pull as it takes 2 seconds before the pull really starts milking. Using it over and over on small bowls, massive bowls, bowls with concentrate added in layers, every one of them hits out of the park. To me, for flower, this is an end-game device that I will likely not need to upgrade.... I will still upgrade of course... but I don't need to... lol. My partner has tiny lungs and loves hitting this out of a mobius sidecar (tons of percolation) while I hit it from a diffusion pump rig (holy hell this is it) - works great for either pull style. I pull as hard as I can for as long as I can and it keeps providing dense clouds. Quick too with the diffusion pump.

 

[TechnoTerps]

For what it's worth, I've been playing around with the Taroma v2 for about 6 months now and added the TLite & Qaroma for comparison about a month ago.

With all of the coil tweaking and temperature dialing; I've managed to fully extract up to .2 in one hit (with a cleanup) with the PID at 600 (for a device with a recommended range of 600-700) by preheating the Ti bowl for 10-15 minutes connected to the Taroma v2 and inverted in the ceramic stand.

This seems to be driven primarily by radiant heat from the bowl as when the Taroma v2 head is used at 600 on a glass bowl, it's the lightest of terps.

The hits driven by hybrid radiant/convection heat seem to be much smoother for the same level of extraction (also more sedative) than trying to achieve it with pure convection. To get similar extraction with the same head in a glass bowl it takes 2 hits (with a stir) at about 665.

I'm looking forward to picking up one of the standard sized ceramic bowls for comparison but I can't see myself needing much more in terms of ball vapes. With the right glass (my next adventure), I'm set at home for heavy hits at all temps and dose sizes.