sirwalter
Well-Known Member
According to this it will..
https://www.reddit.com/r/Waxpen/com...day/eudzn2y?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x
AVS m22
- Thread starter Deleted Member 1643
- Start date
According to this it will..
https://www.reddit.com/r/Waxpen/com...day/eudzn2y?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x
Smoke1ForMe
Well-Known Member
I’m in for the full kit. I like the idea of taking it on the go or having a little rig at home that I can use real quick. I have less time to sit down for a full sesh these days so this would be perfect for a couple quick rips without sacrificing quality or experience.
Anyone have a guess about how the m22 mod might do its magic?
Here's my thinking. Seems to me a mod performs two main functions: it monitors the temperature of the heating element, and it responds to the current temp by moderating the current flow.
We already know the crucible is standardly connected to the m22 by two wires, so the mod itself probably doesn't have a thermocouple, and it'll just do what other mods do and monitor the crucible resistance and translate that into a temp via a TCR value or a TFR file. If the crucible material has a complicated set of TFR factors (i.e., its resistance changes at different rates in different temperature ranges), then tuning this setup would be a matter of getting those TFR factors right, but that should also be doable using other mods.
In terms of moderating current flow, this is done by PID settings in non-DNA mods. I have no idea how DNA mods do it but obviously they have even better algorithms, because you never need to tweak anything like PID settings, and I've used my DNA mod with several different materials as heating elements, and when I watch the device monitor I've been astounded at how good it is at coming right up to temp (i.e., up to a given resistance) and staying rock steady at that temp (resistance). It's hard to imagine that a new kind of heating element would throw a DNA mod for a loop in this regard, but maybe, who knows.
Here's my thinking. Seems to me a mod performs two main functions: it monitors the temperature of the heating element, and it responds to the current temp by moderating the current flow.
We already know the crucible is standardly connected to the m22 by two wires, so the mod itself probably doesn't have a thermocouple, and it'll just do what other mods do and monitor the crucible resistance and translate that into a temp via a TCR value or a TFR file. If the crucible material has a complicated set of TFR factors (i.e., its resistance changes at different rates in different temperature ranges), then tuning this setup would be a matter of getting those TFR factors right, but that should also be doable using other mods.
In terms of moderating current flow, this is done by PID settings in non-DNA mods. I have no idea how DNA mods do it but obviously they have even better algorithms, because you never need to tweak anything like PID settings, and I've used my DNA mod with several different materials as heating elements, and when I watch the device monitor I've been astounded at how good it is at coming right up to temp (i.e., up to a given resistance) and staying rock steady at that temp (resistance). It's hard to imagine that a new kind of heating element would throw a DNA mod for a loop in this regard, but maybe, who knows.
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May be a moot question as I probably will not ever need (or want) any other atty but the m22, but it is nice o know the Mod can be used with others.
Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
In a quote above, Brent said "DNA is the best, but they also never designed their chip to tc a semiconductor in a configuration that would normally be a short circuit."
Also, not sure the SiC is connected by wires. They may have molded the legs to fit into the deck.
Thanks for reminding me of what Brent said about this @Accept, I had totally forgotten! (Too much you know what.) My only point about the wires/legs is that there are only two of them, which rules out the possibility of a thermocouple or other onboard sensor. Plus we know the SIC will work on other mods, so the basic operation has to be the same for TC: closing an electrical loop, monitoring resistance changes, imputing temperature from those changes, and moderating the current accordingly.
I think you're absolutely right, though, to quote his remark about doing TC with a semiconductor. I'm not sure how a semiconductor in a circuit could be read as a short circuit, whereas a conductor in the same place in the circuit would not be. But I think the major relevant difference between a conductor and a semiconductor is that generally a conductor's resistance increases, but a semiconductor's resistance decreases, with increasing temperature. ("Generally," because some materials have positive temperature coefficients of resistance in some temperature ranges and negative TCRs in others.) So for a mod to be able to do TC with the SIC, it would have to accept negative TCRs, not just positive ones. (That is, you should be able to define line segments in the TFR file with negative slopes, not just positive ones.)
If a mod can't work with negative TCRs and impute an accurate temp from them, I would think that it can't do TC at all with the SIC and can only work in wattage mode, and that Brent would already have touted that as an advantage of the new mod. But I'm just exercising my curiosity in the presence of a mystery. I'll be very interested to find out what the new mod's secret sauce might be!
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Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
Finally received a reply to AVS' pre-order invitation. The cost for just the RDA is 149.98 USD. The discount is 33%, making the RDA about 100 USD. It's expected to ship around August 31st. Included:
1 x Molecule22 RDA
1 x Alumina Ceramic Coil Housing
1 x Zirconia Ceramic ESCC Housing
10 x Flat 316LSS Hex-Core Coils 32gx6/38g 6.0mm 8 wrap (approx 0.68-0.70Ω)
1 x Energized Silicon Carbide Crucible (ESCC)
1 x SS Dab Tool
1 x High Precision T6 Torx Driver
2 x Spare Gold plated SS M3 x 3mm Torx Screws
6 x Spare Gold plated SS 4-way Spring Clip
4 x Spare Clear Medical Grade Silicone O-rings
1 x AVS Molecule22 Sticker
1 x User Manual - The M22 is a truly unique atomizer and so we wrote this manual. The M22 is easy to use, but we strongly advise you read the manual regardless of experience level.
It appears that the ESCC is to be used with one of the ceramic housings.
1 x Molecule22 RDA
1 x Alumina Ceramic Coil Housing
1 x Zirconia Ceramic ESCC Housing
10 x Flat 316LSS Hex-Core Coils 32gx6/38g 6.0mm 8 wrap (approx 0.68-0.70Ω)
1 x Energized Silicon Carbide Crucible (ESCC)
1 x SS Dab Tool
1 x High Precision T6 Torx Driver
2 x Spare Gold plated SS M3 x 3mm Torx Screws
6 x Spare Gold plated SS 4-way Spring Clip
4 x Spare Clear Medical Grade Silicone O-rings
1 x AVS Molecule22 Sticker
1 x User Manual - The M22 is a truly unique atomizer and so we wrote this manual. The M22 is easy to use, but we strongly advise you read the manual regardless of experience level.
It appears that the ESCC is to be used with one of the ceramic housings.
Monk Debate
The monks do be debatin’
Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
No - mainly use wire coils, DIY. Impressed with the original Molecule, and intrigued by the idea of an encapsulated heater. Of course, a directly heated dish is even more exciting. Reading all good things about DT's v4.
They are now available for pre-order on their website. I’ve been following portable options for concentrates for a while and I stopped looking and decided that what I was looking for doesn’t exist.
Idk if it exists now but I think it does and I’ve now pre-ordered it from their website.
I need to dig out my mod and see if it’s suitable for wattage mode with this monster, though I’m definitely gonna be pulling the trigger on the mod as soon as I can and the water piece before too long as well. Unless they are giving a particularly sweet pre-order discount on the water piece I cannot justify it presently, unless I maybe put something else up for sale.
Edit: seems my mod is missing, guess I’ll be ordering the new mod just as soon as I can, any mods worth considering to be able to use the M22 when it arrives rather than waiting for the mod to be released too?
Idk if it exists now but I think it does and I’ve now pre-ordered it from their website.
I need to dig out my mod and see if it’s suitable for wattage mode with this monster, though I’m definitely gonna be pulling the trigger on the mod as soon as I can and the water piece before too long as well. Unless they are giving a particularly sweet pre-order discount on the water piece I cannot justify it presently, unless I maybe put something else up for sale.
Edit: seems my mod is missing, guess I’ll be ordering the new mod just as soon as I can, any mods worth considering to be able to use the M22 when it arrives rather than waiting for the mod to be released too?
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So can anyone get on the pre-order or is ti for previous customers?
Any link or FC code needed, I have never been one for getting first additions but I need a portable or 2 for my now available Rosin.
I know how much better SiC tastes to other dabbing surfaces since getting a DNail SiC Halo so think it may be worth a chance on this 'New' vape.
Do you guys think it is too risky for someone that lives as far away as me due to shipping if anything goes awry?
Any link or FC code needed, I have never been one for getting first additions but I need a portable or 2 for my now available Rosin.
I know how much better SiC tastes to other dabbing surfaces since getting a DNail SiC Halo so think it may be worth a chance on this 'New' vape.
Do you guys think it is too risky for someone that lives as far away as me due to shipping if anything goes awry?
Smoke1ForMe
Well-Known Member
Just ordered one, super pumped to try it out!!! August 31st can’t come quick enough.
Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
The pre-order listing is live on AVS' web site. It wasn't announced on reddit, but there's been some discussion, and AVS hasn't discouraged anyone from pre-ordering. The 33% discount requires AVS to send you an invoice, but look around for a site-wide discount code. Until recently, a 25% code was active.
shredder
Well-Known Member
Tough call, I feel your pain. Not sure what I'd do in your circumstance.
It sure seems like a nice vape, and I love my sic halo as well, but we won't know until we know. It does kinda bother me that I might need another dedicated mod.
For me since I have several portable concentrate vapes (saionaras) waiting for the reviews is much easier.
Hopefully another site wide code is activated or there will be a quiet FC discount. Psychologically difficult to pull the trigger at 50% price level above what invoices sent to prior molecule customers was that is a gigantic difference. Business wise AVS would be smart to be in the parking lot at Dick’s sporting goods park in commerce city over Labor Day weekend where there will literally be over 100,000 potential customers in the exact demo the company is targeting with this product providing more foot traffic/eyeballs than IG FB and FC combined.
I can understand that for sure, but I did support the original Molecule (two actually) - so I do feel like us that did invest in the company deserve first dibs?
Consider that FadeSpace wants $115 for their Carta insert - the Carta is $250 alone. $150 for the M22 atomizer with the SiC Bowl is reasonable, especially since the tech is way unique from the competition. This is directly heated electrically, the whole bucket - not just the bottom - which means it will actually TC and give us full enail style control in a handheld. The other devices heat with an alumina ceramic plate heater via conduction which will never have that kind of temp stability, responsiveness, or heatup time. And again, perpetual replacement of ceramic plate heaters which will eventually wear out is non existent on the M22.
Oogendoogan
Well-Known Member
The wear and tear/ replacement of atomizers, extra cost of a sic insert and also the badass tech that will heat the sic on the M22 is what pushed me to pre order it instead of buying the carta and a fadespace insert. I own a FS insert for my banger and it’s amazing but it requires an entire enail set up and rig to use the way I like to dab and it’s definitely a bigger overall investment than the M22.. The M22 is a very fair price for what we are getting and as you say the performance should be better than other portable units, I’m hoping it can replace my enail with Sic insert but we will see. I just wanted to chime in and agree with the points you made. Great post. Is anyone else also interested in the 22mm deck with the crushed coils the OG mole uses just bigger? Those are gonna rip so hard at such low temps if they’re anything like the smaller ones.
Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
Absolutely! DT's Jet Stream also fits big flattened single coils.
Oogendoogan
Well-Known Member
Forgot about the jet stream. Might have to pick one one of those up one day cuz the price is good and it seems like I could build whatever I wanted on it. Also want a crucible v4 as a backup eventually. The M22 will hopefully be my concentrate device of choice so won’t want to risk taking it to concerts and such.
I'm also stoked to compare it to my e-nail! Had a Carta, wasn't what I was looking for - this seems like the first device that is really like a cordless e-nail.
al bundy
Vaporist
Have the M22 and bubbler coming as well from pre order
If you use AVS15 on their site It brings it down to $132
My friend just got a Simple banger from bad ass glass
I like the banger so curious to compare also
I have a Pico 21700 I’m going to use for the M22 for now
If you use AVS15 on their site It brings it down to $132
My friend just got a Simple banger from bad ass glass
I like the banger so curious to compare also
I have a Pico 21700 I’m going to use for the M22 for now
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Traveler
Well-Known Member
Just got myu pre-order set up. I had never received the email with the code for previous Mole owners (I bought from HVT). Sent Brent in a SS of my order from HVT and he set me up with a code...I cant wait for this thing. I also wouldnt be too worried about a dedicated mod, Im sure it will work on most any TCR mod (although i will most likely be buying the AVS one when it drops as well).
So excited to potentially sell my carta
So excited to potentially sell my carta