Atmospheric pressure & Vaporization

[luchiano]

I was reading about atmospheric pressure and cooking and was wondering if by not filling a vapor bowl to the point where it is packed but not too tight and only enough to cover a screen are you really getting the thc that gets you high or are you just getting the aromatic oils to give a nice buzz. Most people stop vaporizing when the taste goes bad but thc has not taste and gives a clear vapor so by allowing taste to be you way to see if the bowl is cached is not really a good idea.

When you stuff a bowl the atmospheric pressure goes down meaning you will need less heat to achieve the boiling points. If you don't pack the bowl the atmospheric pressure rises meaning you would need more heat to achieve boiling points of active ingredients.

THC has a boiling point of 392f at 0.02mm Hg. if in a vacuum. Normal atmospheric pressure is 760 mm Hg. This is why most people water boils at 212f. If the altitude were higher which means low atmospheric pressure, it would boil at 208f.

Now when it comes to vaporizing it seems to me that if you want to get as much as you can from you herb at temperatures around 375f-385f loading the bowl and doing slow draws will give a strong hit and allow for a lot more thc to be released than what most people are getting now when they load a small bowl half way.

You will still have herb left and won't be using up what you have in one sitting but you will get more out of your herb. Think of it as a joint. You get more taste out of a joint than anything else when it is tightly rolled due to the tight roll lowe ring atmospheric pressure inside the jointand you get a nice buzz that if you want to stop you can just put it out and have for later. A tight joint is also cooler on the throat than a loosely packed one and I think it's partly because of the atmospheric pressure being more higher in a loosely packed joint which means hotter temperatures. Also because less of the air is cooled down by the plant fibers coming into contact with the heat. Packing a vaporizer bowl is just like this but better because the taste will be more concentrated due to lack of burning.

Try it out and see for yourselves but make sure you don't overpack the bowl you want to pack it to where the bowl is fully packed but enough that it can move around so the air can circulate. This is why an even grind is need when vaporizing because the air can circulate more evenly than is the herb was in little chunks.

Check this video out to get an idea of what I'm talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYND...s/Atmospheric_Mat.htm&feature=player_embedded

That video can explain why hash doesn't vaporize very well but if ground up and kept from becoming a liquid it will get the vaporized good.

Water boiled with no heat just by lowering the atmospheric pressure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxtAeGtL9SE&feature=related

These two videos really explain what I'm trying to say as it refers to vaporizing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCMax4gZEoc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX2YZZbnx4s&feature=related

Pressure & Temperature Demonstration
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYw3aQMQVvE

 

[luchiano]

I forgot to mention that if you have a vaporizer with the hot air coming from on top of the herb like an Aromed you don't have to fill the entire bowl as long as you pack the bowl evenly and tight, again not too tight, because as you suck the hot air on to the herb it will keep the herb in place.

This sucking effect is also why you can release the thc at lower temperatures because by sucking the hot air through the tight packed bowl, which lowered atmospheric pressure inside the bowl, you will force the chemicals to be released instead of waiting for the molecules themselves to vaporize. You're essentially speeding up the process.

If you use a vaporizer where the hot air is coming up under the herb you still should pack the bowl to the top and tight because this will help keep the herb from flying around and forcing the little air that is getting to the herb to go through each available pocket. Because the herb is ground evenly hot air will extract the herb nicely.

If you use sticky herb of kiff, allow a little more space for the trichomes to melt because if you don't they will congeal together and prevent good airflow.

 

[Mark]

I like how you edited both your posts but didn't merge them.

Sorry for the useless post everyone, I'll edit some opinion here later.

 

[bluntfaced]

Of course it will hit fatter if there is more weed in it, atmospheric pressure or not

 

[luchiano]

Of course it will hit fatter if there is more weed in it, atmospheric pressure or not

You're not understanding me.

It's not about the size of the hit but how much is being extracted specifically THC.

Most people aren't extracting most of their THC from their herb and I'm showing how to do this by manipulating atmospheric pressure levels inside the bowl.

This is why people can still get high off of vapor poo. There is still THC left over. THC is a clear and odor less oil so you can't go by taste alone to see if your done. It also vaporizes at higher temperature than most people use at a lower atmospheric pressure than most use if you don't pack the bowl tight(still allowing airflow) and grinding the bud up evenly so air wil be forced to go through each pocket available thereby allowing a lot more extraction that grinding bud in little chunks and not packing tight which means the air won't be evenly distributed and the atmospheric pressure won't be low to allow a good amount of THC to be released at a lower temperature than 392. By inhaling you are "forcing" the release of chemicals so the temperature can be lower than 392 if you want it to be.

 

[Acolyte of Zinglon]

you might be onto something, wikipedia defines a vaporizer as a device that extracts plant oils by heating plant material in a partial vacuum

fwiw im pretty much at sea level, i notice that theres still quite a bit left in my bud from vaping at medium to high temps, significantly less when i go over it for a second pass as it were

 

[Hennessy1414]

just to lay down some facts...vaporizers still work up in the mountains


but...I have noticed how my IO wont vape the bowl 100% completely....possibly due to the elevation

 

[Acolyte of Zinglon]

lower air pressure means lower boiling points

 

[Hennessy1414]

..but does that rule apply to things such as thc, cbn, cbd, thc-v yada yada yada.


I have yet to vape at sea level tho...Anyone going on a business trip soon we need someone to experiment

 

[tuttle]

..but does that rule apply to things such as thc, cbn, cbd, thc-v yada yada yada.

The boiling point is defined as the point at which the vapor pressure of the liquid equals the environmental pressure surrounding the liquid, so reducing pressure will reduce their boiling points, but to what amount is the question.

I think for this to work (have any discernible decrease in boiling points) you would have to pack the bowl extremely tightly to get any kind of vacuum. Even so, the only advantage I see of this would be that you further separate the point at which you get the vapor you are interested in and the combustion temperature of the plant material. I don't think you will see more THC boil off, you would see it boil off at a slightly lower temp.

 

[DevoTheStrange]

the higher up you go the lower temp too get vapor.... I actually play around with this alot, if I am so inclined, over the course of the day I can go up and down 5000 feet, give or take a few hundred. (live right at the base of a mountain) the higher up I am, the easier it is too vape. (except for the iolite, that thing will crap out third the way up the mountain)
I noticed with my PD at higher elevations the ABV will come out dark brown... which I rarely ever get when I am at the elevation I usually use it at.
and as far as a partial vacuum goes, I think this would be created whenever you would draw on the tube/whip/mouthpiece of what ever your using, dropping the atmospheric pressure inside the bowl. Same with forced air delivery.

 

[CrazyCracker]

When I get my PD Ill do some experimenting. I have friends in SF and Lake Tahoe I can visit.

 

[luchiano]

and as far as a partial vacuum goes, I think this would be created whenever you would draw on the tube/whip/mouthpiece of what ever your using, dropping the atmospheric pressure inside the bowl. Same with forced air delivery.

Yeah this is true but unless you pack the bowl tight and even you won't get a proper extraction. This is why I stated that vaporizers where the hot air is coming from up top, you don't need to pack the bowl a lot as long as it is even and finely ground because as you suck the herb will stay in place.

If the hot air is under the herb the extraction won't be as good because the herb will move around and therefore the pressure won't effect the extraction of vapor with the hot air as well because the hot air will accumulate where there is less resistance so packing a bowl tight, which might mean adding more than usual, is necessary. If everything was evenly distributed the hot air will have to go through any possible holes and because the herbs is ground up fine, the small holes will create a venturi like effect and this will allow more cannabinoid extraction at lower temperatures which means more taste, more healthy, and more high.

EDIT: The more I looked at what I'm doing it is really the Bernoulli Principle.

This video put's it into simple terms especially the beginning where he blows between the two cans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YHqCkCJbWQ&feature=related

This method will provide the best extraction at temperatures of 375f-392f

1-Grinding your herb into an almost powder like substance

2-Make sure you use a titanium screen that is very fine so the herb doesn't clog the screen

3-put the herb into the bowl in a way so that the herb is evenly distributed from top to bottom and packed tightly but enough so that air can flow through it.

3-Inhale slowly so the herb won't clog the air flow by coming together due to the Bernoulli Principle. If you feel you need air just take in what you already have by taking a large deep breath through your nose. This will push the vapor down deep into your lungs which also activates your parasympathetic nervous system which will give a longer and better high.

If you really want to get a good hit exercise your lungs using the powerlung and you will be able to take long slow hits without need to get air. Peppermint or spearmint also helps. If you can strengthen your lungs doing this method I'm giving you can get BLASTED from vaporizing.

4-stir the part of the herb that is exposed to the incoming air because this part won't get extracted as much as the middle of the herb and the herb sitting directly on the screen



You can get some fine titanium screens from Aqualab technologies:
http://www.aqualabtechnologies.com/titanium-screen-1-inch-60-wire.html

Powerlung:
http://www.powerlung.com/region/us/

Easyleaf electric grinder
http://www.easyleaf.co.uk/online_store/blue_plastic_grinder.cfm

Hope this helps someone achieve the results they wanted. Peace.

 

[Happycamper]

the higher up you go the lower temp too get vapor.... I actually play around with this alot, if I am so inclined, over the course of the day I can go up and down 5000 feet, give or take a few hundred. (live right at the base of a mountain) the higher up I am, the easier it is too vape. (except for the iolite, that thing will crap out third the way up the mountain)
I noticed with my PD at higher elevations the ABV will come out dark brown... which I rarely ever get when I am at the elevation I usually use it at.
and as far as a partial vacuum goes, I think this would be created whenever you would draw on the tube/whip/mouthpiece of what ever your using, dropping the atmospheric pressure inside the bowl. Same with forced air delivery.

Talking about climbing mountains, do you find you get more 'vaked' the higher you go? The effects of alcohol are increased due to less oxygen in your blood (and you body having to work harder to get it around your system).

 

[bluntfaced]

I get a lot higher with altitude smoking most definitely

 

[stonemonkey55]

If the hot air is under the herb the extraction won't be as good because the herb will move around and therefore the pressure won't effect the extraction of vapor with the hot air as well because the hot air will accumulate where there is less resistance so packing a bowl tight, which might mean adding more than usual, is necessary. If everything was evenly distributed the hot air will have to go through any possible holes and because the herbs is ground up fine, the small holes will create a venturi like effect and this will allow more cannabinoid extraction at lower temperatures which means more taste, more healthy, and more high.

EDIT: The more I looked at what I'm doing it is really the Bernoulli Principle

This is what the Vriptech system has been built on

 

[Beezleb]

I live at sea level and I go to the mountains from time to time. I have not noticed with weed but I never paid it no mine so I will see if I can gage it next time.

Drinking, definitely more effect at higher altitude for me. We always joke its something in the water but its the altitude.

 

[luchiano]

If the hot air is under the herb the extraction won't be as good because the herb will move around and therefore the pressure won't effect the extraction of vapor with the hot air as well because the hot air will accumulate where there is less resistance so packing a bowl tight, which might mean adding more than usual, is necessary. If everything was evenly distributed the hot air will have to go through any possible holes and because the herbs is ground up fine, the small holes will create a venturi like effect and this will allow more cannabinoid extraction at lower temperatures which means more taste, more healthy, and more high.

EDIT: The more I looked at what I'm doing it is really the Bernoulli Principle

This is what the Vriptech system has been built on

Exactly but it is designed for the heat of the wand. I'm talking about actual extraction from the herb. The wand and the method I described will probably go well together. The only thing that might be a problem is if you use a long bong you will need good lung power as opposed to using a bubbler or something without as much surface area.