Arizer Air II
- Thread starter jakeattack77
- Start date
UnevenPizza
I dream of Pizza
I got some poorly produced shwag it seems, get vapor starting at 340 already but usually end up going all the way to 385.
UnevenPizza
I dream of Pizza
I've been wondering, what's your guys's preferred pack on the Air 2? Tight or loose, full or half? Does anyone stir?
Sometimes I can vape almost two 12 Minute sessions back to back and get vapor almost the full duration, others it only lasts half a session. And it's been coming out darker and a bit unevenly baekd, too.
Sometimes I can vape almost two 12 Minute sessions back to back and get vapor almost the full duration, others it only lasts half a session. And it's been coming out darker and a bit unevenly baekd, too.
aoaiwof
Member
Are there any dosing capsules that fit in the Air 2 stem? Correct me if I'm wrong but the glass for the Air and Solo (both OG and 2) are all compatible? I've heard that the Fury 2 caps might fit but haven't been able to get any yet.
Also, are there any wooden stems available besides Ed's? I've heard that the performance on these particular stems of Ed's (https://edstnt.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=60) is not very good.
Ideally I'd like a wooden stem which took S+B dosing capsules, but I think the S+B caps are too wide for the Air?
Also, are there any wooden stems available besides Ed's? I've heard that the performance on these particular stems of Ed's (https://edstnt.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=60) is not very good.
Ideally I'd like a wooden stem which took S+B dosing capsules, but I think the S+B caps are too wide for the Air?
OF
Well-Known Member
Yes, Solo and Air stems interchange. And the F2 capsules fit although they are loose 'side to side' (and snug top to bottom). I haven't tried them, but I'd guess they will work but will have need of longer 'heat soaks' between hits due to poorer conduction.
I might give it a try if curiosity gets the best of me.
I know of no other wood stems, but you might be able to make one like Ed's with thinner SS tube and fit the (fatter but not taller) capsules from the new HR FIERCE.
Weekend regards to all.
OF
aoaiwof
Member
Was not aware about the Fierce or the bigger caps, good to know. 420vapezone cites the bowl inner diameter as 11.5mm (https://420vapezone.com/arizer-air/) which matches the Fierce caps exactly (https://www.healthyrips.com/store/p56/FIERCE_Dosing_Capsules.html). Will keep an eye out. Thanks
OF
Well-Known Member
Was not aware about the Fierce or the bigger caps, good to know. 420vapezone cites the bowl inner diameter as 11.5mm (https://420vapezone.com/arizer-air/) which matches the Fierce caps exactly (https://www.healthyrips.com/store/p56/FIERCE_Dosing_Capsules.html). Will keep an eye out. Thanks
Yes, but remember tall is a factor too? The "Pods" from FMs will also go in, but are way too long for normal stem insertion.
So I tried it. I already had freshly loaded F2 capsules, and a handy Solo II, all I needed was a new stem. All mine have domed screens and are contaminated enough to produce vapor when empty. Easier to find the spare than pull the screen and completely clean the stem......
You can put it in either way, rim up or down. I took 'up' that is with the rim exposed to the bottom of the cup since that should give better heat transfer (the rim being both bigger in diameter and more solid than the smaller bottom mesh of the capsule).
It does make some vapor (of course) but I don't think will be popular with any MMJ types. As I suspected you can get very thin, short lived, hits. 12 minutes at 390F was disappointing. Could have done as much or more in four minutes in F2. Cranking up to 410F gave a bit more, but taste went fast and you'd get a hit that started out on the 'yuck' end of things but lasted a bit longer. Still very modest overall.
Cranking it up to 428F (all the law allows.....) gave a bit more vapor, such as it was. Even then I ended up with dark dark ABV (I would call it 'jet black', like the 'native' mesquite charcoal you get from Mexico in minature) against the cap and still a bit of color left at against the screen at the 'bottom' of the capsule. Given time, I'm sure you could get that as well.
Full extraction, to be sure, but not the sort I think guys want? Different effects because of it. Effects normally avoided (like 'couch lock') by lower temperatures show up along with the modest improvement in vapor density. No free lunch there. A domed screen does much much better IMO using basically the same amount of herb......and faster, too.
Those interested should, of course, try it and decide for themselves. It's a cheap enough experiment, and the only way to be sure if it is or isn't for you?
OF
aoaiwof
Member
Thanks for testing, really good to know. I guess I might be happier just getting some more stems then and just preloading the stems, probably cheap enough. At the moment I'm looking to get an on-demand vape so keeping my eye on Tubo Evic, StemPod, Splinter, possibly a Milaana or Lil' Bud. Was hoping to find a better way to use my Air II out-and-about but maybe I will just have to wait til I pull the trigger on another vape
OF
Well-Known Member
That's my solution:
https://imgur.com/WgOYSb5
That's the 'plastic topped stem' from Air with vinyl caps. The MP end has a bit of 1/2 OD tube to allow for the flat shape, it seals on the end. The other end cap (again 1/2 ID is cut down so it's easier to force on and off (the bowl end of the stem is larger). If you use high temperature caps (good to 450F for ten minutes) you can cap a hot stem and have it back in your pocket in no time.
Compact, easy and smell proof.
Works great, at least for me.
OF
Vapster707
Well-Known Member
So usually I do a 75% pack and have it loose starting temp is 350 stir twice ending temp is 400 and I get good clouds ...My last two bowls I did 70% hard pack same temps and stirring twice and I'm gettin thick and fuller vape clouds ...
aoaiwof
Member
I find it impossible to get visible vapor after the first 5 - 10 minutes of a session, and never enough vapor to blow clouds after my draw and a couple second hold. I've been hitting around 360 to 380, turning up to 390 to 400 at the end. I usually ride for 15 to 30 minutes before turning up. I notice that my unit starts whistling at a certain draw rate, and that can get loud if I draw excessively, but I think the draw rate at the regualr whistle level is OK: takes about 20 to 30 seconds to fill my lungs. Will post more later about the specifics of my exploration with this device haha.
The key is a heat soak and slow draw
Vapster707
Well-Known Member
Take a slow long draw
OF
Well-Known Member
Exactly so, both characteristics of conduction vapes struggling to make vapor (common in portables where power is at a premium). Unlike combustion or (true) convection vapes where more air flow in brings more heat with it to make yet more vapor, here hitting brings in cool air which 'robs heat' that would otherwise make vapor to heat the air.
If you watch the videos of the showoffs that 'milk' their glass pieces, they go very slow?
Try it and see?
OF
aoaiwof
Member
So I've found that waiting longer before drawing, and drawing even slower, I can get some vapor on the exhale. Vapor productiin doesn't last long though, I guess that's my produce, but the last few batches have been like that. :/ I do find I am getting THC after vapor stops though.
Do people consider this more of a conduction vape than a convection vape? I believe Arizer market it as some kinda hybrid doohickey. In my experience I feel like I am drawing hot air through, and if I pull harder I can cool it,but a cerain amount of pull feels necessary. I notice that my herbs are darker at the top of the bowl, seems like a pretty even layer, so I guess the herb at the bottom is undercooked slightly, but is this not consistent with convection, since the oven has sides? I guess it depends where the heat is, directly underneath or around the oven.
Does anyone know how the temperature sensor or firmware works? I find I have to pull really hard to get it to register a drop in temp. I could do with looking at an airpath diagram with the temp sensor labelled and the heating zones, if such a document exists. Any teardowns?
Do people consider this more of a conduction vape than a convection vape? I believe Arizer market it as some kinda hybrid doohickey. In my experience I feel like I am drawing hot air through, and if I pull harder I can cool it,but a cerain amount of pull feels necessary. I notice that my herbs are darker at the top of the bowl, seems like a pretty even layer, so I guess the herb at the bottom is undercooked slightly, but is this not consistent with convection, since the oven has sides? I guess it depends where the heat is, directly underneath or around the oven.
Does anyone know how the temperature sensor or firmware works? I find I have to pull really hard to get it to register a drop in temp. I could do with looking at an airpath diagram with the temp sensor labelled and the heating zones, if such a document exists. Any teardowns?
OF
Well-Known Member
Here you go:
https://blog.puffitup.com/2017/11/arizer-air-2-teardown-and-disassembly/
"Heat soaks" (getting better results with pauses between hits for more heat to conduct in) and slow draws giving more vapor are hallmarks of conduction. Convection means super heated air is providing the heat, no delay to cool and sucking harder means more vapor, not less like you see.
Not convection, look at the tiny surface inside the vents that would have to heat the air. And, by definition, that heated air has to be more than 400F or so so it can give up heat energy to make vapor and still be over 400F as it leaves? The metal would have to be so hot it would cause combustion to make that happen. Conduction and convection work at two entirely different temperatures. Them's the rules.
There's a lively thread (kind of quiet lately) on just this topic:
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/arizer-portable-heater-tech-discussion.25914/
I think it's safe to say part of the problem is folks really don't understand the issues but believe that convection is superior and want it to be in their vape. No mater what Thermodynamics might have to say?
You can see the heater, bolted to the bottom side of the cup with the temperature sensor and fiber plate above it. The sensor is really reading the back side of the heater, not the load. Eventually conduction will make all the temperatures the same, but during the hits the sensor is really artificially hot relative to what's happening in the load, ironic as that seems. Yet it works well?
OF
OF
Well-Known Member
Excellent points. I might add, also be sure your herb is well cured (dry) going in. All the water still left will have to boil off first, slowing vapor production down and the water will condense in the stem and make a big old fouling mess with that old 'oil and water don't mix'. Unlike blazing, 'dank weed' is to be avoided if the goal is rapid THC extraction.
I leave mine out after grinding, and if necessary put it on top of the router which runs warm.
OF
bluenavey00
Arizer Air Aficionado
Thanks for testing, really good to know. I guess I might be happier just getting some more stems then and just preloading the stems, probably cheap enough. At the moment I'm looking to get an on-demand vape so keeping my eye on Tubo Evic, StemPod, Splinter, possibly a Milaana or Lil' Bud. Was hoping to find a better way to use my Air II out-and-about but maybe I will just have to wait til I pull the trigger on another vape
I've never felt the need to carry multiple filled tubes. On the go I carry either one of these note/pill carriers. Enough for 2/3 loads, just pre grind, and tap it into the stem on the go when needed.
Or if I need a larger supply, I pre grind, and fill a doob tube. If a little compressed I can fit around 1G.
https://www.gearbest.com/other-surv...D-Gss7KjDn-zhgYXLjtHvm2-FAvOySm0aAsEiEALw_wcB
aoaiwof
Member
thanks for the link, i really enjoyed reading the thread and glad to see people taking measurements. from my reading of the graphs though, the temp rises in the herb during the draw? by my intuition it would be a nonlinear effect, so if you dont draw there is no hot air to heat the loose herbs, and if you draw too much you will just cool the herbs, but if you draw juuuust right you will draw air at or close to the heater temp over the herbs. hence: long slow draw.
i usually pack as loose as possible, i prwfer to cap the stem with a screen over any amount of tampimg, so i can usually shake instead of stir. i have a low tier metal 4 piece, which i consider giving a medium-fine grind on quite dry herb. recently i saw a post about heavy packing so trying that on a bowl to see the diff.
i had not considered what yhe different vapor constituents were, but is it not mostly water vapor? i would have thoight dry bud would have less vapor?
nice, thanks. i guess i could carry another tube to store the abv. i still would like a more immediately loadable solution, capsule or stem, but it could do me by. kinda bullets vs gunpowder or something.
i'm interested to hear about people's draw speeds, and also the abv they end up with. ate 1g of cheese and onion abv the other day and got nothin :/ is my vape just that efficient?
OF
Well-Known Member
No, the INDICATED temperature rises to come closer to the temperature of the load before the hit is what I think you see. Heat easily escapes up the metal leads making the area around it artificially cooler. Notice that this 'it's easy to see the air is heating the load' discussion stalled out lately when guys did the experiment I've been suggesting for some time now. A T/C gauge with thicker leads (therefore more conduction) reads lower than one with thinner ones? Extrapolate that back to 'leads of zero thickness'........ Instrumentation artifact, well understood 'in the field'. Thermodynamics you know.
Notice too, the load heats by conduction from power on.....without any airflow at all?
No way can draw slow enough to 'balance'. The air is at most modestly heated, nowhere near the temperature of the cup. Think about it, a tiny rim of the ports is exposed to the airflow, most of the air molecules blow past this never touching? A tiny fraction of the air makes a very brief contact and gets heated a bit before being averaged in with the rest. If this was dominant the smaller, thicker ports on OG Solos would show a much bigger effect (higher percentage of wall, and longer). Attempt to measure this 'heated air' entering the load area fall flat on finding anything like vaping temperatures (I found about 15F IIRC, have suggested others try......w/o takers).
Nope. Conduction. Uses too little power to be convection (which is a real power hog by comparison), and 'heat soaks' and slow draws are characteristics of conduction. Heated air (which has to be above 400F to contribute) would cause endless vapor as it does with real convection vapes.
No matter what you call it, Solo/Air/ArGo works very well. But I suggest if we're going to use established technical terms we should do so correctly?
Regards to all.
OF
Let's not go through this in this thread (again). That's why we made the other thread in the first place.
All of the above has been discussed in depth in that thread and there is no need to re-hash it out here.
Suffice it to say that @OF's summary above about what's going on is his opinion and solely his opinion. An opinion I might note that is not shared by most other participants of that discussion.
Anyone wishing to continue this discussion should please do so in the other thread.
Thanks.
bluenavey00
Arizer Air Aficionado
also the abv they end up with. ate 1g of cheese and onion abv the other day and got nothin :/ is my vape just that efficient?
I tend to bake with mine, normally into a delicious banana bread, I find the flavours really suite each other.
I vape to 200, and I normally allow for 4G of ABV per slice. Although i'm sure it will differ massively per person. However, when vaping I am a lightweight. Which I see as a good thing!