Are vaccines safe and effective as claimed?

t-dub

Vapor Sloth
It will always be an ongoing battle between humans and disease- that's how life on earth works- it's all about adaptation.
That's why that video I posted above is so exciting. Since my immune system has to be suppressed, I have battled with Staph and MRSA in the past. I have an infectious diseases expert on my wellness team and have been "decolonized" by him, not really a fun process . . . :cry:
 
t-dub,

darkrom

Great Scott!
Plenty of problems from overuse of antibiotics right here in the USA too.
Even the FDA and USDA are starting to come around...

Absolutely. I just remember India being a perfect breeding ground for super disease. The US absolutely over uses it, but I got the impression that in India EVERYONE uses anti-biotics.
 
darkrom,

t-dub

Vapor Sloth
When I was in the Philippines you could just buy them over the counter with no prescription either . . .
 
t-dub,

sublimationpurist

formerly stephenking
Study: Polio vaccine campaign in India has caused 12-fold increase in deadly paralysis condition

A recent report published in the Indian Journal of Medical Ethics (IJME) explains that, clinically, NPAFP is indistinguishable from polio paralysis. But according to the Office of Medical & Scientific Justice (OMSJ), NPAFP is twice as deadly as polio paralysis, and yet was not even an issue in India prior to the rollout of the massive polio vaccine campaigns.
http://www.naturalnews.com/035588_polio_vaccine_India_paralysis.html
It's funny that some people buy the CDCs dogma about no link between vaccines and Autism. They spend so much time and money ruining the lives of the many scientists that have attempted to research the matter. Why are they so threatened by research if there's no link?

They have also been caught lying, cheating and manipulating data. Here's an example:
CDC researcher Poul Thorsen, who famously headed up the "Denmark Study" that many claim disproved any link between autism and vaccines, has been indicted in Atlanta by a federal grand jury on charges of wire fraud, money laundering and defrauding research institutions of grant money.
http://www.naturalnews.com/032216_Thorsen_fraud.html

They have massive financial interests in not finding a link. These are the same government agencies that claim Cannabis is addictive, dangerous, and has no medical value! Anyone on this forum who considers the CDC or FDA a "good source" should slap themselves!

NAA believes the findings of the new study call into serious question the continued assertion from federal health agencies that vaccines do not cause autism.
"As this study shows, vaccines can and do cause brain damage and subsequent autism in certain children," said Fournier. "The government has been settling these cases for over twenty years, yet has failed to conduct research into why these children were susceptible to vaccine injury. This neglect will continue to needlessly and senselessly result in adverse reactions and autism in other children."
http://www.naturalnews.com/032423_vaccine_compensation_program_brain_injury.html
 
sublimationpurist,
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golantravize

professional metaphysician
OK, Vaccines are safe and they are effective, it is not controversial within the Academic / Medical community. Also, they protect against viruses.The problems posed by antibiotics are a completely separate issue relating to bacteria. While some strains of bacteria are developing resistance to various antibiotics, that fact by no means warrants discontinuing the use of antibiotics when proscribed by a doctor for a good reason.
 
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sublimationpurist

formerly stephenking
OK, Vaccines are safe and they are effective, it is not controversial within the Academic / Medical community. Also, they protect against viruses.The problems posed by antibiotics are a completely separate issue relating to bacteria. While some strains of bacteria are developing resistance to various antibiotics, that fact by no means warrants discontinuing the use of antibiotics when proscribed by a doctor for a good reason.
Yeah, it's not controversial within the allopathic community of medicine created by Rockefeller.
I was just relating the problems, not confusing them. Viruses mutate too. I agree people should take antibiotics when there's a good reason, but they are widely overused. Lots of kids take them for years just for acne.
 
sublimationpurist,

Roy D Mercer

peasant
Neurologists forbid me from taking any vaccines. I already have CIDP with anti-MAG, a rare nervous system disorder. My experience has shown vaccine use triggers dangerous progression of peripheral nerve destruction. At least in me.
 
Roy D Mercer,

crawdad

floatin
its interesting how if we are talking about pot many commonly trusted institutions we are quick to be skeptical of however with vaccines i guess the fda, cdc, blah blah got it all right. just noting. if you look back far enough, most of what we consider as truth was ridiculed and im sure there was data (or at least enough peer pressure) to back it up too.

im pro-health, whatever that might include or exclude and often its not mainstream. you can't deny there are things in the vaccines (other than the actual ingredient you are trying to become immune to) that are very harmful to living organisms, to which we are one *and* we begin our first hours of life with an injection of it. heavy metals are bad, heavy metals are found in vaccines, its not a huge leap to connect vaccines to disorders but to show actual proof does require thorough and fair clinical analysis. if you read journals like i do you see plenty of studies that show very large increases in cases of disorders and those that show a clear correlation with vaccine administration also say there is no connection, its odd. im all for immunity and i like the concept of vaccines, i think we just need to re-evaluate the administration of it now that we know more than we did in the 50's and 60's.

we need intelligent researches to take the claims seriously instead of backyard scientists publishing their "findings" on yahoo sites or similar..dare i say, message boards. people who deal with this daily have their take on it as well mind you. autistic cases are WAY higher than they have ever been...FACT. it would be sad if we let our incessant need to be right (tearing apart claims by being quip) get in the way of figuring this out sooner than later.

good that you at least figured that out Roy. :peace:
 

darkrom

Great Scott!
As for there being "bad things" in vaccines, that I don't know anything about, but if those are there I'd assume they aren't there just for fun. If I need to take in a little tiny shot of bad stuff to prevent my body from being ravaged by diseases and what not, I think the pros outweigh the cons.
 
darkrom,

VapeVoice

Well-Known Member
Vaccines are here to protect the masses. By people not vaccinating their children they put other children at risk. For instance there are certain vaccines given over a time period to newborns. The newborn is not immune until it has received all of the series. If you do not vacciante your child or yourself and you contract what it protects against and you come into contact with a newborn who is not yet immune you can spread it to them. It is about protecting the herd people!
 

Frederick McGuire

Aggressively Loungey
Crawdad,
its interesting how if we are talking about pot many commonly trusted institutions we are quick to be skeptical of however with vaccines i guess the fda, cdc, blah blah got it all right
I can't speak for others, but every time I've referenced an institution etc, I've tried to use one that shows sources - a study or something to that effect, trying to judge by the evidence, not who's saying it.
Those institutions just happen to be fairly reliable sources of good information, if they came out tomorrow and said vaccines are evil, and then cited a study that doesn't show that, I'd disregard them just the same...
I have yet to see an actual study come to the conclusion that weed is significantly harmful (that wasn't a crap study to begin with)...

you can't deny there are things in the vaccines (other than the actual ingredient you are trying to become immune to) that are very harmful to living organisms
You could say the same thing about almost anything IMO...
What matters is the amount (dose).

heavy metals are bad, heavy metals are found in vaccines, its not a huge leap to connect vaccines to disorders but to show actual proof does require thorough and fair clinical analysis
But you cant just take that small leap without evidence, and I can't seem to find any evidence that justifies the leap?

you see plenty of studies that show very large increases in cases of disorders and those that show a clear correlation with vaccine administration also say there is no connection, its odd.
Are we talking autistic disorders, or other disorders?
I know there are issues relating to the ongoing changing exact definition of "autism" so a more robust definition has lead to an increased rate of the disorder being reported/known.
pretty much everything I can find on the matter comes to the conclusion that there is not really any indication that vaccines are causing autism.
they may be happening at the same time (correlated) but there is no causal link.

we need intelligent researche[r]s to take the claims seriously instead of backyard scientists publishing their "findings" on yahoo sites or similar..dare i say, message boards.
Who are you referring to when you say "backyard scientists"?
Pretty much everything that's anti-vaccine I've come across is spin (a distortion of the facts) or made up nonsense...
There have been MANY studies by qualified scientists/researchers/XXX as to the efficacy and safety of vaccines... Everything I can see comes up on the side of vaccines.

people who deal with this daily have their take on it as well mind you. autistic cases are WAY higher than they have ever been...FACT.
due to different/improved diagnostic methods and a more thorough understanding (still nowhere where it needs to be EDIT: but we can always understand things better) of the issue.
 

golantravize

professional metaphysician
Having degrees in psychology, I can tell you that you (Crawdad) have an incorrect understanding of the Autism issue as it exists currently. There have been more Autism cases Diagnosed, but that is more a problem of misdiagnosis than one of an increase in autism. Furthermore Autism is not yet well understood and a drastic change in the way Autism is defined, diagnosed, and understood may be imminent in the DSM V.

As for the rest of your recent post, I agree almost completely with McGuire, I don't care what you say you've read, if you want to convince me (or anyone in the scientific community) of a claim like this, then the burden of proof is on you to cite studies supporting ALL of your claims published in reputable journals. There IS adequate research in favor of vaccines, and it is widely accepted in the scientific community.
 

jahi

http://globalcannabismarch.com/WE_CAN_DO_THIS_.htm
GRAPHICAL EVIDENCE SHOWS VACCINES DIDN'T SAVE US

http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html

The above graphs, based on the official death numbers as recorded in the Official Year Books of the Commonwealth of Australia, are taken from Greg Beattie's excellent book "Vaccination A Parent's Dilemma" and represent the decline in death rates from infectious disease in Australia. They clearly show that vaccines had nothing to do with the decline in death rates. (Note: Graphical evidence on the decline in death rates from infectious disease for USA, England, New Zealand and many other countries shows the exact same scenario as above).

So what were the true reasons for this decline? From his book 'Health and Healing' Dr Andrew Weil best answers it with this statement;

"Scientific medicine has taken credit it does not deserve for some advances in health. Most people believe that victory over the infectious diseases of the last century came with the invention of immunisations. In fact, cholera, typhoid, tetanus, diphtheria and whooping cough, etc, were in decline before vaccines for them became available - the result of better methods of sanitation, sewage disposal, and distribution of food and water."

Further Reading
Vaccines and Disease
Vaccination - Assault on the Species
The Polio Vaccine Myth
I thought this may be a good place for this? & medicine pharma or emergency in a accident can save life & limb & yes lobbying is corrupt & lies fraud corruption is rife & risking life in all big $ industries http://nukefree.org/
http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/fukushima1.html
http://www.garynull.com/home/death-by-medicine-documentary-wins-best-of-fest-award.html & http://fukushimaupdate.com/
HISTORICAL FACTS EXPOSING THE DANGERS AND INEFFECTIVENESS OF VACCINES
- In 1871-2, England, with 98% of the population aged between 2 and 50 vaccinated against smallpox, it experienced its worst ever smallpox outbreak with 45,000 deaths. During the same period in Germany, with a vaccination rate of 96%, there were over 125,000 deaths from smallpox. ( The Hadwen Documents)

- In Germany, compulsory mass vaccination against diphtheria commenced in 1940 and by 1945 diphtheria cases were up from 40,000 to 250,000. (Don't Get Stuck, Hannah Allen)

- In the USA in 1960, two virologists discovered that both polio vaccines were contaminated with the SV 40 virus which causes cancer in animals as well as changes in human cell tissue cultures. Millions of children had been injected with these vaccines. (Med Jnl of Australia 17/3/1973 p555)

- In 1967, Ghana was declared measles free by the World Health Organisation after 96% of its population was vaccinated. In 1972, Ghana experienced one of its worst measles outbreaks with its highest ever mortality rate. (Dr H Albonico, MMR Vaccine Campaign in Switzerland, March 1990)

- In the UK between 1970 and 1990, over 200,000 cases of whooping cough occurred in fully vaccinated children. (Community Disease Surveillance Centre, UK)

- In the 1970's a tuberculosis vaccine trial in India involving 260,000 people revealed that more cases of TB occurred in the vaccinated than the unvaccinated. (The Lancet 12/1/80 p73)

- In 1977, Dr Jonas Salk who developed the first polio vaccine, testified along with other scientists, that mass inoculation against polio was the cause of most polio cases throughout the USA since 1961. (Science 4/4/77 "Abstracts" )

- In 1978, a survey of 30 States in the US revealed that more than half of the children who contracted measles had been adequately vaccinated. (The People's Doctor, Dr R Mendelsohn)

- In 1979, Sweden abandoned the whooping cough vaccine due to its ineffectiveness. Out of 5,140 cases in 1978, it was found that 84% had been vaccinated three times! (BMJ 283:696-697, 1981)

-The February 1981 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association found that 90% of obstetricians and 66% of pediatricians refused to take the rubella vaccine.

- In the USA, the cost of a single DPT shot had risen from 11 cents in 1982 to $11.40 in 1987. The manufacturers of the vaccine were putting aside $8 per shot to cover legal costs and damages they were paying out to parents of brain damaged children and children who died after vaccination. (The Vine, Issue 7, January 1994, Nambour, Qld)

- In Oman between 1988 and 1989, a polio outbreak occurred amongst thousands of fully vaccinated children. The region with the highest attack rate had the highest vaccine coverage. The region with the lowest attack rate had the lowest vaccine coverage. (The Lancet, 21/9/91)

- In 1990, a UK survey involving 598 doctors revealed that over 50% of them refused to have the Hepatitis B vaccine despite belonging to the high risk group urged to be vaccinated. (British Med Jnl, 27/1/1990)

- In 1990, the Journal of the American Medical Association had an article on measles which stated " Although more than 95% of school-aged children in the US are vaccinated against measles, large measles outbreaks continue to occur in schools and most cases in this setting occur among previously vaccinated children." (JAMA, 21/11/90)

- In the USA, from July 1990 to November 1993, the US Food and Drug Administration counted a total of 54,072 adverse reactions following vaccination. The FDA admitted that this number represented only 10% of the real total, because most doctors were refusing to report vaccine injuries. In other words, adverse reactions for this period exceeded half a million! (National Vaccine Information Centre, March 2, 1994)

- In the New England Journal of Medicine July 1994 issue a study found that over 80% of children under 5 years of age who had contracted whooping cough had been fully vaccinated.

- On November 2nd, 2000, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) announced that its members voted at their 57th annual meeting in St Louis to pass a resolution calling for an end to mandatory childhood vaccines. The resolution passed without a single "no" vote. (Report by Michael Devitt)
http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web2.html
 

VapeVoice

Well-Known Member
I mean really. ok so 80% of kids that contracted pertusis were vaccinated. I would like to know the total number. As vaccination is not 100 % effective some people will contract what they were vaccinated against. This does not mean that the vast majority of people vaccianted were not protected. Facts are it does protect the masses. Without them we would be far worse off than we are. If you don't want to vaccinate your kids. Then don't do it. Just stop trying to further your agenda. Science, Medicine, and time have all proven that vaccines are the right thing for the greater good of having a healthier society. No matter which way you try to slice it.
 
VapeVoice,

t-dub

Vapor Sloth
I thought there was a guy named Pasteur and a disease called Anthrax that settled all this a long time ago?
 
t-dub,

jahi

http://globalcannabismarch.com/WE_CAN_DO_THIS_.htm
i dunno about anthrax. the chart shows
polio.gif
measles.gif
diphtheria.gif
whoopingcough.gif
also there's mention of scarlet & typhoid fevers where there was no vaccine & no widespead vaccination respectively. graphs, based on the official death numbers as recorded in the Official Year Books of the Commonwealth of Australia, are taken from Greg Beattie's excellent book "Vaccination A Parent's Dilemma" http://vaccinationdilemma.com/ and represent the decline in death rates from infectious disease in Australia. They clearly show that vaccines had nothing to do with the decline in death rates. (Note: Graphical evidence on the decline in death rates from infectious disease for USA, England, New Zealand and many other countries shows the exact same scenario as above).
true reasons for this decline? From his book 'Health and Healing' Dr Andrew Weil best answers it with this statement;

"Scientific medicine has taken credit it does not deserve for some advances in health. Most people believe that victory over the infectious diseases of the last century came with the invention of immunisations. In fact, cholera, typhoid, tetanus, diphtheria and whooping cough, etc, were in decline before vaccines for them became available - the result of better methods of sanitation, sewage disposal, and distribution of food and water."

Further Reading

Vaccines and Disease http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/Vaccines.html

Vaccination - Assault on the Species http://www.whale.to/vaccine/rattigan2.html

The Polio Vaccine Myth http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/polio.html


GRAPHICAL EVIDENCE SHOWS VACCINES DIDN'T SAVE US http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html

HISTORICAL FACTS EXPOSING THE DANGERS AND INEFFECTIVENESS OF VACCINES http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web2.html

DOCTORS AND SCIENTISTS CONDEMN VACCINATION http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web3.html

WHY VACCINES ARE INEFFECTIVE http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web4.html

WHY VACCINES ARE HARMFUL http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web5.html

WHY VACCINATION CONTINUES http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyglibcat/020132sinclair/vaccinaion.htm

THE BENEFICIAL NATURE OF CHILDHOOD INFECTION http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web6.html

HEALTH - THE ONLY IMMUNITY http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web7.html

THE HOPEWOOD CHILDREN - AUSTRALIA'S HEALTHIEST KIDS http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web8.html
empower others to protect their most fundamental of human rights. It is also important for you to understand that our Founding Fathers believed that the law and legal matters should be accessed equally by all citizens of this Republic. While we are no substitute for an attorney, in our experience, a clearly written letter IN YOUR OWN WORDS citing the law and stating your grounds for such an exemption, should be all that is necessary. Having your letter notarized and Cc:ed to a supervisor, superintendent, legislator, etc. can add weight to your case in some instances.

By legally abstaining from coerced medical experimentation today, you are literally helping secure the rights of future generations that follow us.

Thank you!

Vaccination Liberation - Idaho Chapter
Contact: Vaccination Liberation

"Free Your Mind....From The Vaccine Paradigm"
www.vaclib.org http://www.vaclib.org/exempt/disclaimer-full.htm
so from the charts it looks like vaccines were introduced after 90% of the disease was gone or in decline before vaccines for them became available - the result of better methods of sanitation, sewage disposal, and distribution of food and water."? is this correct or why do you say vaccines ?what vapevoice said?vaccianted were not protected. Facts are it does protect the masses. Without them we would be far worse off than we are. If you don't want to vaccinate your kids. Then don't do it. Just stop trying to further your agenda. Science, Medicine, and time have all proven that vaccines are the right thing for the greater good of having a healthier society. No matter which way you try to slice it.? so if the trend was sanitation & clean food took care of 90% of the disease before vaccine then trending & even 1977, Dr Jonas Salk who developed the first polio vaccine, testified along with other scientists, that mass inoculation against polio was the cause of most polio cases throughout the USA since 1961. (Science 4/4/77 "Abstracts")? how did vaccines help more than they hurt?
 
jahi,

VapeVoice

Well-Known Member
By your own charts you show that vaccines have practically stopped all these diseases from being relevant. That's how it protects the masses. Quite simple really.
 
VapeVoice,

VapeVoice

Well-Known Member
Are these charts from the CDC or the World Health Organization or is it put out by a right wing group to further their agenda?
 
VapeVoice,

VapeVoice

Well-Known Member
Dr. Weil is a homeopathic Doctor who of course will want you to believe that medicine is not the answer by the way :)
 
VapeVoice,

jahi

http://globalcannabismarch.com/WE_CAN_DO_THIS_.htm
ok vapevoice, are you vaccinated? is your family, children too? do you get booster shots? flu shots? any problems if you do get them, however small? happy you think benefits outweigh risks? did think you get fair information about the risks? 1979, Sweden abandoned the whooping cough vaccine due to its ineffectiveness. Out of 5,140 cases in 1978, it was found that 84% had been vaccinated three times! (BMJ 283:696-697, 1981)

-The February 1981 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association found that 90% of obstetricians and 66% of pediatricians refused to take the rubella vaccine.

- In the USA, the cost of a single DPT shot had risen from 11 cents in 1982 to $11.40 in 1987. The manufacturers of the vaccine were putting aside $8 per shot to cover legal costs and damages they were paying out to parents of brain damaged children and children who died after vaccination. (The Vine, Issue 7, January 1994, Nambour, Qld)

- In Oman between 1988 and 1989, a polio outbreak occurred amongst thousands of fully vaccinated children. The region with the highest attack rate had the highest vaccine coverage. The region with the lowest attack rate had the lowest vaccine coverage. (The Lancet, 21/9/91)

- In 1990, the Journal of the American Medical Association had an article on measles which stated " Although more than 95% of school-aged children in the US are vaccinated against measles, large measles outbreaks continue to occur in schools and most cases in this setting occur among previously vaccinated children." (JAMA, 21/11/90)

- In the USA, from July 1990 to November 1993, the US Food and Drug Administration counted a total of 54,072 adverse reactions following vaccination. The FDA admitted that this number represented only 10% of the real total, because most doctors were refusing to report vaccine injuries. In other words, adverse reactions for this period exceeded half a million! (National Vaccine Information Centre, March 2, 1994)

- In the New England Journal of Medicine July 1994 issue a study found that over 80% of children under 5 years of age who had contracted whooping cough had been fully vaccinated.

- On November 2nd, 2000, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) announced that its members voted at their 57th annual meeting in St Louis to pass a resolution calling for an end to mandatory childhood vaccines. The resolution passed without a single "no" vote. (Report by Michael Devitt)
http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web2.html
 
jahi,

zymos

Well-Known Member
God what a bunch of misinformation. Dr. Weil is an MD, not a homeopath.
There is no vaccine for anthrax, by Pasteur or anyone else. It is a bacterial infection treated by antibiotics.

(edit responding to posts above, not jahi)
 
zymos,

Vicki

Herbal Alchemist
I've probably had more than my fair share of vaccinations because I was a Navy brat. I always got my vaccinations on a military base, by military doctors. I swear I got more vaccinations than civilian kids did, at least it seemed that way to me. Nothing bad ever happened to me. My daughter has had all her vaccinations as well. Nothing bad has happened to her either. :shrug:
 
Vicki,

VapeVoice

Well-Known Member
God what a bunch of misinformation. Dr. Weil is an MD, not a homeopath.
There is no vaccine for anthrax, by Pasteur or anyone else. It is a bacterial infection treated by antibiotics.

(edit responding to posts above, not jahi)
He is an MD who leans heavily towards homeopathy. Sorry if it came across as misinformation as that was not my intent.
 
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