Anyone ever suspect their dispensary is lying about their product stats?

[Joel W.]

I have not had issues in the past but this stuff looks weird to me and I'm on the 4-5th dab and I feel virtually nothing. Says it's hindu kush bho wax but...Wtf. The dark spots on the corners are from my dabber. Please ignore the cat hair that floated in. LOL

edit: It kicked after a bit but ya no taste really and definitely no immediate buzz. Delivery guy is on his way so I will ask him about it.

edit 2: He assured me it's all tested and no complaints yet but I see it was not on the menu this week. Live and learn, stick with what I know.

 

[seaofgreens]

Visible trichomes on the outside are often a false indicator of potency. I've found the the majority of the trichomes are in the middle of the bud.

I haven't bought from a dispensary but I hope that sensible BC comes through with legalization so that I can in the future.

This would be a complete fallacy... The only trichomes that would be "inside" would have been found on the outside of the flower and folded a bit into the interior as the bud swelled, condensed, and ripened. So in that sense, some of the bud was at one point, "outside." The point of the trichomes is to act as a sticky trap for pollen, and would never develop inside of the flower. No trichs on a dried bud is an indication that it was unhealthy or seeded early on, both would be a strong indication of poor quality/potency.

Source - Growing for 5 years straight, from seed, from clone, bred my own, cycled 20+ strains over and over and over, compact flourescents, HID lighting, outdoor, and this year, greenhouse.

Edit - To stay on topic... Holy shit do these places lie. I have met exactly one Budtender that had adequte knowledge about how marijuana is even grown to satisfy me and maybe 2 or 3 tenders that I felt had enough passion for smoking that I trusted their judgement.

Almost all of these mom and pop places are terrible unfortunately, because they don't know what they are doing. There are a couple exceptions of course, but most the guys that do know something are making 100k+ for the big guys now. Were talking 10k+ HID light warehouses... I know several folks from the hort. department at CSU who are now moving into that field, including the president of the hort. club from when I was in college...

Not entirely sure that these (bigger) guys are lying about their stats fwiw. It is possible to get to 99%+ THC with our current technology. You can only get so high though, no matter how potent something is, so its only leading to more quickly passing out imo.

 

[DenverNugs]

It's gotten to the point where I just don't even look at them anymore. It's hard to take those percentages seriously when it seems like every dispensary has them tested at a different lab.

A couple years ago I found myself at a grungy little dispensary that was selling bubble hash that 'tested' at 90%+.

 

[syrupy]

Two problems with the numbers. They're often inaccurate, and measuring raw THC levels is a crude representation of the effects of a strain. Individual experience has led me to strains that work great independent of any numbers. Getting in good with the disp. workers is good because they can steer one to strains that they know "overperform" compared to the tests. Proof found in pudding.

 

[lwien]

In my experience, a high THC ratio, even if accurate, isn't necessarily an indicator of a strong high. It's all the other things that come into play along WITH the THC that can make all the difference in the world.

 

[herbivore21]

Can I just say that not living in a place where there are dispensaries, if I were to come stateside I would probably NEVER buy concentrates from dispensaries. Regulation just seems to be completely off the mark in various different ways in various jurisdictions. Where are the mandatory residual solvent tests across the board in every place where it is legal? Where are mandatory microbial/fungus tests?

The amount of products I check out on on SClabs test result pages that I wouldn't even dab if given for free is astounding! This is even more staggering when we remember that generally dispensaries know what is dodgy about their products so they are very selective with testing when submitting to these places - just look at all the runny solvent soup pictures on their page with no residual solvent tests done lol - I wonder why that is?!

I am a firm believer in any cannabis products sold for recreational or medical purposes being tested and that packaging should have clear, accurate information based on verifiable and publicly available scientific test results for each batch.

Cannabinoid profiles, terp profiles, residual solvents, microbes and fungus testing results all should be clear for the customer to see and be confident of their accuracy. I really shudder to think of all the medical patients who are getting sub-par material of questionable or unknown safety!

 

[lwien]

I really shudder to think of all the medical patients who are getting sub-par material of questionable or unknown safety!

True, but are they any worse than the FDA tested pharmacuticles that doctors prescribe for their medical patients?

On some of these TV ads, the warnings are insane.

 

[grokit]

It's the same with e-cigs, food, beverages, most things we ingest these days.

Convenience is toxic!

 

[seaofgreens]

You could use a column chromatography set-up to extract any single canabanoid into its pure form. Ask about extraction methods at dispensaries and see if anyone is using this method perhaps. Any butane extraction when run under a mass spec. will contain impurities... as would any oil/honey/hash etc... you bought from a friend doing the same method, no matter how pure that butane was. That being said, a really good butane extraction is very tasty regardless.

 

[420engineer]

I've grown Barney's LSD, which is an indica dominant strain reportedly having 25%+THC, and as such, gets its name from the supposedly trippy effect it gives. however, I've also grown 16%THC sativas that are waaaaay more trippy, and much better weeds imo - ignore THC levels, they're just headlines

 

[StheDubya]

Heres the deal, at least where I live. In the testing industry everyones equipment reads differently. So growers take their stuff to the guys who always test higher. I have seen it first hand. My friends do it. Take the same sample material to 2 different labs and one may say its 15% and another may say its 18%. If you were trying to sell your bud to a dispensary which one would you go to? The one that says 18%. Why? Because 18% sells faster than 15%.

In most kinds of testing there is some kind of reference standard used for calibration meaning something that a person could calibrate their equipment to knowing that the standard is say 20%. If they test it and it tests 22% then they know the equipment needs calibration. I don't think any such standard exists in the weed industry. Could be wrong but that's kinda where my thoughts have been.

I always tell people don't THC shop. When we first started getting dispensaries I made that mistake. The best thing to do is find a good one that you trust and develop a friendly relationship with the bud tenders. I have 2 or 3 I go to where I will buy what is recommended to me by the bud tender no questions asked. Because I trust them when they say it is good bud.

 

[macbill]

I saw a device at the 2014 Seattle Cannabis Cup that used light through a sample to derive it's THC and such. Some type of spectrometry. While this, indeed, may be possible, I have trouble believing a hand-held unit being all that accurate. Then again, it's all kind of magic to me.

 

[StheDubya]

That would be a handy gadget to have. Wow technology these days is amazing.

 

[Joel W.]

Soon! --> "Sorry bra, my molecular scanner say's that's tane soup!" (from the things and gadgets thread)

 

[StheDubya]

Soon! --> "Sorry bra, my molecular scanner say's that's tane soup!" (from the things and gadgets thread)

Thanks for posting that up. Way cool!

 

[herbivore21]

Soon! --> "Sorry bra, my molecular scanner say's that's tane soup!" (from the things and gadgets thread)

Amazing bro! Would have loved to have gotten one, this will be sweet for American MMJ patients if it is actually accurate.

But fucking hell, it uses the cloud. That puts it completely out of the question for those of us wanting to use such a device in prohibition jurisdictions on illegal meds. The metadata/data from that transaction would leave a no-doubt American (5 eyes) company with evidence of your having committed an offense. Those in illegal jurisdictions cannot trust that shit.

Also I'd like to see it tested on some simple and more complex chemical samples that have been tested by proper lab spectroscopy rigs. It would be nice to have the company explain how calibration works on this thing and whether it will produce reliable results over time without recalibration.

 

[Hashtag46&2]

Weird..I thought I had already posted my perspective on this thread.

Which is a fantastic topic to bring up btw.

Want to know the truth?

There is zero regulations regarding Cannabis and Concentrate Lab Work for Colorado's Medical trade.

Oddly enough; The state does require lab work on Recreational Facilities..

WTF?!?!

However, since Cannabis remains a Schedule CI substance, these "Labs" have zero obligation to post accurate numbers.
For example...

Dispensary owner walks into the lab, product and paperwork in hand, he can easily slip a few 100$ bills under the application papers, and the owner dictates what the lab prints up.

Another scenario; when I used to shop Dispensaries (there are only 3 in my whole city that I can trust and one of said three are falling off the map.)

**If you shop in my town and want to know what to stay away from, please please feel free to PM me**

Be weary at all times, I've seen the same damn lab numbers posted on the walls of a few different places for years now.

Cannabinoid content can change from flower to flower on the same plant, let alone a whole different plant of the same strain.

With all this being said...
Be extremely thorough when buying Gas/Solvent Based Concentrates!!

I have witnessed and heard directly from close friends that are in or were in the industry as "Master Growers ",Trimmers, budtenders and Extract Vendors..

Owners and investors HATE the thought of losing any profits, therefore..
Bug infested, mildew, mold, pesticides, fungicides...the grossest things one can imagine get sent off for "processing " into Concentrates.

^^This right here has caused many of my acquaintances and myself who once thought working at a Dispensary is a Dream Job, to quit, and either go into a whole different industry or start their own Caregiver endeavors.

If you're a good grower with ethics... You will never succeed working for "investors "... They do not want their employees to be smart, especially smarter than themselves. They want robots that do as they are told.

Additionally; even the "good " shops overwhelm the growers.. One grower in charge of hundreds of plants?!?
It is physically impossible to monitor all those plants without missing something..

For God's sake... Managing 6 plants is a full time job(if you are truly passionate)

TL;DR
Do not trust published lab numbers, ask questions...and PLEASE stay away from Solvent Extracts that come in those plastic little containers with no labeling besides "Shatter"

If at all possible...Grow Your own Medicine.

 

[herbivore21]

Weird..I thought I had already posted my perspective on this thread.

Which is a fantastic topic to bring up btw.

Want to know the truth?

There is zero regulations regarding Cannabis and Concentrate Lab Work for Colorado's Medical trade.

Oddly enough; The state does require lab work on Recreational Facilities..

WTF?!?!

However, since Cannabis remains a Schedule CI substance, these "Labs" have zero obligation to post accurate numbers.
For example...

Dispensary owner walks into the lab, product and paperwork in hand, he can easily slip a few 100$ bills under the application papers, and the owner dictates what the lab prints up.

Another scenario; when I used to shop Dispensaries (there are only 3 in my whole city that I can trust and one of said three are falling off the map.)

**If you shop in my town and want to know what to stay away from, please please feel free to PM me**

Be weary at all times, I've seen the same damn lab numbers posted on the walls of a few different places for years now.

Cannabinoid content can change from flower to flower on the same plant, let alone a whole different plant of the same strain.

With all this being said...
Be extremely thorough when buying Gas/Solvent Based Concentrates!!

I have witnessed and heard directly from close friends that are in or were in the industry as "Master Growers ",Trimmers, budtenders and Extract Vendors..

Owners and investors HATE the thought of losing any profits, therefore..
Bug infested, mildew, mold, pesticides, fungicides...the grossest things one can imagine get sent off for "processing " into Concentrates.

^^This right here has caused many of my acquaintances and myself who once thought working at a Dispensary is a Dream Job, to quit, and either go into a whole different industry or start their own Caregiver endeavors.

If you're a good grower with ethics... You will never succeed working for "investors "... They do not want their employees to be smart, especially smarter than themselves. They want robots that do as they are told.

Additionally; even the "good " shops overwhelm the growers.. One grower in charge of hundreds of plants?!?
It is physically impossible to monitor all those plants without missing something..

For God's sake... Managing 6 plants is a full time job(if you are truly passionate)

TL;DR
Do not trust published lab numbers, ask questions...and PLEASE stay away from Solvent Extracts that come in those plastic little containers with no labeling besides "Shatter"

If at all possible...Grow Your own Medicine.

A man after my own heart!

I wish I could grow my own starting material, but I do run my own medicine. I do not trust anybody within a few thousand square miles to make shatter up to my standards lol I also wanna inspect the starting material thoroughly before I run it.

I can't fucking believe that they don't have testing standards for medical in Co, that is just completely unforgivable. If you are selling it and calling it medicine, you should be testing it. No ifs, no buts.

Testing must be to scientific standards too - this amongst many other technical things means absolutely ZERO money changes hands between testing labs and producers/sellers of products. This is a flat out conflict of interest and wouldn't get past a scientific ethics committee even if they were all dabbed out from slab of shatter themselves!

Residual solvent testing should be 100% mandatory too!

Ugh I could go on and on! lol

 

[Jared]

I bought some really ugly looking Super Lemon Haze wax from a place called Canna Caregivers a few weeks back and it was disgusting. It looked like it had been sitting around for so long the parchment paper somehow dissolved into it or something. The bud tender told me she'd been dabbing it and it's great. I probably could've returned it but I just won't shop there again. Not for concentrates anyway.

On the other side of the spectrum I met a guy today that was from pretty close to where I'm from in AR who owns a dispensary in town and is the head grower for it. He was super honest and cool. Let me look at every strain on the shelf and told me every single nutrient or additive they use to grow their cannabis which was extremely reassuring after hearing about all the questionable pesticides being used on grows around here.

 

[Joel W.]

I spread out some stuff that looked like my above picture, stuck it in the vac chamber and pulled it down out in direct sunlight on a 90 degree day. I got several little bubble that I am assuming was butane unless it was moisture? is there a way to tell the difference between the two?

After a few hours it was much more stable and normal looking and clearer.

I think I will make my own from now on. thanks

 

[DabComa]

Anytime you put some oil under a vacuum its going to expand, even if it were (ideally) 100% purged. It's just the nature of decreasing the pressure in the environment of such a viscous material. If you put playdoh under a vacuum it will expand, only because the pressure leaving the environment evenly pulls on the material from every dimensional angle, resulting in expansion of said material, even bubbling, which doesn't necessarily mean that anything is being removed from the material besides trapped air that escapes easier into the area of lower pressure in the vacuum chamber from the interior of the viscous material. Def not going to purge any butane from any playdoh, and you probably will never remove all of the butane or residuals from thereof from your oil, but they can absolutely be lowered to negligible levels.

And to clarify I am absolutely NOT trying to say that vacuuming serves no purpose during purging, only that vacuuming purged (or purchased) material is by no means a surefire indicator of whether or not there remains any unwanted residuals in your beloved concentrates.

 

[vakednotfried]

buisness is a cut throat world

 

[grokit]

If I ever get to shop for concentrates, the plan was just to grab the clearest, most delicious looking shatter that appeals to my eye, the more expensive the better lol. After reading @Hashtag46&2 and other posts in this thread, it sounds like I may need to inquire about pedigree as well; as is it from a single strain or is it the equivalent of bar slop/floor trimmings with solvent sand pest/herbicides mold bugs etc. thrown in for good measure. How much can you really tell, visually? Because otherwise you're just asking the dispensary to lie to you, unless you have a trusted recommendation or happen to stumble upon an honest one.

 

[RUDE BOY]

i'd love to live somewhere where I could be lied to by dispensary staff. Concentrates don't really interest me at all and reading this thread and others makes it seem down-right scary to buy 'em from anyone anywhere, seems better to make your own for sure. pretty sure I'd never actually bother to make my own but ...

I don't ever see a way that all the info on cannabis products in what ever form they're in will ever be reliable or standardized without getting the government way to deeply involved in the whole process from growing to testing to selling. Looking from black market land it looks like it's always still going to be a bit of a crap-shoot when your buying "produce", even once it's legal here.

I know I'm kinda off topic but i wanted to ask how they take samples to test off of plants and do all parts of all the buds on a given plant contain the same ratios chemically if tested?

Somehow to me right now it doesn't seem they always would but I'm not edumacated in such things and the question arose in my mind as i was reading this thread. thanx.

 

[grokit]

I would be okay with a salad, even trim going into my shatter. But I would like to be assured that it is "organic", mold and solvent free. Basically clear of any contaminants. So perhaps we're back to this:

"Joel W. said: ↑
Soon! --> "Sorry bra, my molecular scanner say's that's tane soup!" (from the things and gadgets thread)"

We need one of these that could attach to a smartphone, with an app that will take their damn contaminants to the cloud, kinds like yelp keeps the food, beverage & lodging establishments in line.

I would also like to be able to verify at least the major cannabinoid ratio, sativa indica dominant etc.

edit: for flowers too