Ammonia during vaporizing

[biohacker]

Ofcourse, there are several neurotransmitters and hormones affected by cannabinoids, and especially when you overindulge as I did, for as long. Again, many factors - including age. Ammonia is like a windex window cleaner scent, but different than acetone. I honestly didn't know what the smell was, but what I do know is that last night I slept like a fucking baby and was dry as a bone! Why? It actually was my diet, I did a carb backload last night by inhaling a medium pizza and had a couple of beers. This has probably been the reason why i've been having these night sweats for the past several months as well, due to a cyclical ketogenic diet. It's thermogenesis occuring at night, and probably as well as gluconeogenesis.

Thanks again to all the experts out there. I'm glad I don't think I have bladder cancer anymore fuck.

Not concerned about ammonia in vapour at all anymore, but still will vape mostly through hot water just for filtration and lung irritation purposes.

Huge shout out to @Dafni for all your incredible knowledge and insight throughout this ordeal i've been going through...with permission, i'd love to repost some of your info on ammonia/urea and how what we sweat out is completely different. You are the bomb!

I am quite lean and get dehydrated easily, my blood sugar drops uncomfortably when I go too long without food, etc. Never experienced anything like this, or any real withdrawal symptoms whatsoever. I don't think what you are experiencing can be chalked up to your body type and fitness level.

You may be insulin resistant, diabetic, prediabetic, or eating too many carbs and going on an insulin roller coaster. Go get checked out at the doctor.... you shouldn't experience such blood sugar drops, maybe you have something going on in your pancreas, which is literally becoming an epidemic (my coworker recently died of pancreatic cancer at the age of 44). Also apparently because most of societies pervasive high carb diets which we are not designed to process, if you are over the age of 25 you probably have some form of insulin resistance.

 

[Techmob]

Sounds like you have done a bit if self exploration,that's a good thing

I am on a similar path and I need to clean up my diet and make changes

Cheers for being an open book to read

 

[Mark1]

It really could be your diet. I cyclically do a detox for 14-21 days. Only fruit and vegs mixed with a lot of lemon + Shanka Prakshalana - Yoga's Intestinal Cleanse Technique every morning. Well after about 10 days, I totally stop smelling ...lol. I mean, no kidding I swear, it sounds gross but I could avoid a shower for 2 weeks and no one would notice. Armpits, Feet, even my balls(don't ask me how I know... rofl). It's quite amazing. I'm not going to mention all the other huge benefits of this cleansing, but hey I'm 46 and most people think I'm 36-38 . Coincidence? Mehe ;P

Excuse my EN

 

[Techmob]

No, you are right. I think we build up so much crap these days with all the modified foods and luxuries on offer.

I need a big detox I think.

Any decent recipes to follow, I like spicy so if that is ok could be used to mask the lack of taste

I want to reduce salt on my food as that is not good for you, I know we need salt but isn't the salt we have mixed with some form of sand and to much of this causes problem with cholesterol as that is used by the body to heal what the salt causes, is it not.

I watched a video with dr Leonard coldwell

 

[Mark1]

....

Any decent recipes to follow, I like spicy so if that is ok could be used to mask the lack of taste

First off, if it's the first detox of your life you should do a short detox like 7-10 days, because your body is not used to this kind of "stress".

For the lack of taste, I use a few tricks:
When mixing vegs, try to use more "sweet" vegs (red/yellow bell peppers, tomatoes, carrots etc) than vegs with a bitter taste ( lettuce, cauliflower, zucchini etc). This gives a better balance to the overall taste. If you still find it too bitter you can add half an apple to the mix.
If you like salty taste, Celery is the secret. Add a few pieces of celery (good for testosterone btw) as you please.
It's even used dried and finely crushed by vegans that don't want to use salt.
Another taste enhancer for vegs is apple cider vinegar, a tea spoon. Healthy and tasty

Spicy is def OK, both for taste and blood cleansing. You can add some fresh Chili pepper to your mix, another healthy alternative is Ginger. I often add 1 clove of garlic to the veg mix.
Don't forget the lemon. It also helps to preserve the mix longer in the fridge in case you prepare large amounts for the week.

When I mix just fruits I usually don't add anything, if the fruit is of decent quality I don't really feel the need to add sugar or anything, just some lemon.

Yeah I'm pretty hardcore, no real recipe , just a mixer , fresh products some water to help mixing and your taste/fantasy. This is not a "juice machine" , it's a regular mixer, so you eat all the good fiber and don't spike your glycemic index with the fruit juice (yup , fructose,the sugar contained in fruit, can be a bitch too)
also drink 2 liters/half gallon of water a day and you are good.

When you end your detox, don't start eating junk food immediately, start slowly don't eat heavy stuff for a week.

There are many many sites out there who can help you much better.
Start slowly, don't be a hero...lol, if you slip up is not a big deal, this thing gets easier with experience..duh

Oh I forgot, reg. the yoga thing mentioned in the other post it is quite disgusting. You basically need to drink minimum 1 liter of warm water with a certain amount of salt and perform some simple yoga movement. After a few minutes you run to the bathroom and oh boy, you are pissing from your anus lol. At the end of the detox the water out is the same color of the water that went in. Yup. Basically an equivalent of a colon cleansing made with a machine. Only problem it's quite nauseating drinking the stuff, but I got used to it. Most people can't really do it though.
It's not essential even though highly beneficial, but you can find instruction on the net in case you are tempted. Haha

 

[Techmob]

First off, if it's the first detox of your life you should do a short detox like 7-10 days, because your body is not used to this kind of "stress".

For the lack of taste, I use a few tricks:
When mixing vegs, try to use more "sweet" vegs (red/yellow bell peppers, tomatoes, carrots etc) than vegs with a bitter taste ( lettuce, cauliflower, zucchini etc). This gives a better balance to the overall taste. If you still find it too bitter you can add half an apple to the mix.
If you like salty taste, Celery is the secret. Add a few pieces of celery (good for testosterone btw) as you please.
It's even used dried and finely crushed by vegans that don't want to use salt.
Another taste enhancer for vegs is apple cider vinegar, a tea spoon. Healthy and tasty

Spicy is def OK, both for taste and blood cleansing. You can add some fresh Chili pepper to your mix, another healthy alternative is Ginger. I often add 1 clove of garlic to the veg mix.
Don't forget the lemon. It also helps to preserve the mix longer in the fridge in case you prepare large amounts for the week.

When I mix just fruits I usually don't add anything, if the fruit is of decent quality I don't really feel the need to add sugar or anything, just some lemon.

Yeah I'm pretty hardcore, no real recipe , just a mixer , fresh products some water to help mixing and your taste/fantasy. This is not a "juice machine" , it's a regular mixer, so you eat all the good fiber and don't spike your glycemic index with the fruit juice (yup , fructose,the sugar contained in fruit, can be a bitch too)
also drink 2 liters/half gallon of water a day and you are good.

When you end your detox, don't start eating junk food immediately, start slowly don't eat heavy stuff for a week.

There are many many sites out there who can help you much better.
Start slowly, don't be a hero...lol, if you slip up is not a big deal, this thing gets easier with experience..duh

Oh I forgot, reg. the yoga thing mentioned in the other post it is quite disgusting. You basically need to drink minimum 1 liter of warm water with a certain amount of salt and perform some simple yoga movement. After a few minutes you run to the bathroom and oh boy, you are pissing from your anus lol. At the end of the detox the water out is the same color of the water that went in. Yup. Basically an equivalent of a colon cleansing made with a machine. Only problem it's quite nauseating drinking the stuff, but I got used to it. Most people can't really do it though.
It's not essential even though highly beneficial, but you can find instruction on the net in case you are tempted. Haha

Some great advice and info there, it sounds obvious when you explain it like that.
thanks for your time in responding

 

[biohacker]

Sounds like you have done a bit if self exploration,that's a good thing

I am on a similar path and I need to clean up my diet and make changes

Cheers for being an open book to read

Thanks man, nice to see it's appreciated unlike some members on here that feel intimidated, especially when you disagree with their "expertise".

As for salt, sure idodized table salt is garbage, but himalayan salt (I love the pink salts) and grey sea salts are an incredible health food, consisting of many minerals that are deficient in many other foods. Especially with hot yoga, these electrolytes and minerals are imperative. This entire salt is bad for you myth is BS IMHO, just like the entire "saturated fat is bad for you, you should eat LOW fat" dogma.

Diet is crucial, I wasn't eating enough period, and not eating enough carbs for my activity level, and was doing too much intermittent fasting. I can't even believe how good I felt today, and the level of happiness has reached a new level. It's so important for me to eat to match my training, and train to match my eating. It's all a huge learning process when you are trying to improve yourself, and become the best version of yourself possible.

 

[KeroZen]

@biohacker : not that I feel concerned by your "intimidated" remark, but many people including me just tried to give you general advice, then moved on... because well, even if we really do wish you all the best and to get better, this is the "ammonia during vaporizing" thread, not the "biohacker's ammonia smelling night sweats" one...

Maybe you could start a thread about C. withdrawal symptoms, I'm sure it would interest FC readers and I'd gladly share my experience with you over there, and discuss the matter.

 

[RadiationSnow]

Thanks man, nice to see it's appreciated unlike some members on here that feel intimidated, especially when you disagree with their "expertise".

As for salt, sure idodized table salt is garbage, but himalayan salt (I love the pink salts) and grey sea salts are an incredible health food, consisting of many minerals that are deficient in many other foods. Especially with hot yoga, these electrolytes and minerals are imperative. This entire salt is bad for you myth is BS IMHO, just like the entire "saturated fat is bad for you, you should eat LOW fat" dogma.

Diet is crucial, I wasn't eating enough period, and not eating enough carbs for my activity level, and was doing too much intermittent fasting. I can't even believe how good I felt today, and the level of happiness has reached a new level. It's so important for me to eat to match my training, and train to match my eating. It's all a huge learning process when you are trying to improve yourself, and become the best version of yourself possible.

Biohacker I just want to explain a few things to you.

First off this thread is very interesting to say the least and I hope we can do a deeper study on this topic. Like concentrates, flushed/unflushed meds. Synthetic and veganic meds. Tap/distilled fed, etc.


However Biohacker and a couple other individuals (including myself) are expressing concern for certain symptoms that we experience through medicating. I think I can add some food for thought to some of these individuals and we can get back on topic. Figure out exactly the cause of the elevation of Ammonia (which is very toxic to the body and can cause encephalopathy as it is very hard to filter out of the body) is with vaporizing.

Biohacker I can assure to you that your symptoms are not related to withdrawal as cannabis is not physically addicting and your body is not giving you these night sweats because it is needing cannabinoids to function.

The sweats are as some pointedout an underlying health issue; related to liver function.

Your ammonia levels could be excessive keytones (protein rich diet, starving; lack of carbohydrates, body burning muscle for energy), which is your body burning muscle(protein) for energy. This, along with a protein rich diet or starvation will cause ammonia smell.

You are right the sweating is your body's natural way to remove toxins. In terms of hyperhydrosis your body needs salt to retain water. Pink salts are high in arsenic and other heavy metals and I stay away from them.

You're right about proper diet. You need rice as your staple and rich dense nutritious veggies to detox the ammonia. Things like carrot juice for breakfast, cabbage for lunch, spinach for dinner, etc. Free range chicken, and grass fee beef is also good.

I can assure you if the smoke is bothering you it's either the strain, medium/food it was grown with, ammonia, or you are doing like me and worrying about something you know is bothering you but you can't put your finger on it.

Every single person here is gonna get tired of listening to it just like everyone at my house gets tired of me talking about smoking a Sativa and getting full body shakes that I can't control.

It's some underlying issue it can be related to ammonia.

Nothing to do with withdrawal and we need to figure out how to remove the ammonia.

I am a medical patient with liver dysfunction and ammonia could be why I get full body shakes from smoking small amounts sometimes.

I notice things help this like drinking clean water (poland spring).

Maybe the ammonia is why it dehydrates you. Once dehydrated there is no water to absorb the ammonia when undergoing medicating (vape or otherwise).

I hate to double post but a lot of things add to ammonia. I notice certain foods cause this too. Nightshades in particular with me do it. If I eat potato's and medicate. I will get full toxic reaction (almost a gruesome anaphylaxis that I don't pass out from and have to suffer until the meds wear off) from the nightshade that I know is only related to my diet choice.

I haven't had any nightshades for about 2 months and I no longer panic and shake when smoking.

Truth is a lot of foods play a role in our response to this medicine and if anyone cares about smoking ammonia than there are diet choices you would have to change too because a lot of foods have decent amounts of protein (broccoli being one), and if you aren't working out or building all that protein is wasted and turns into ammonia.

Any issues with liver function and this ammonia hit's the blood stream and you can't go to sleep because it keeps your brain awake lol.

Another contributor of ammonia is H. Pylori. While there is a breath test for it. It's safe to undergo a diet change to fight this bacteria as 50% of the world has it and it creates ulcers, and releases ammonia in the body by taking the urea in your stomach. It lives in the lining and evades the stomach acid.

Sorry it's off topic sort of!

@michaelb.

I understand. It's mostly the nervous system effects of ammonia I'm concerned with. Personally, having different sensations when vaping than smoking. Though better breathing is certainly noticed after only vaping, which was my primary desire. I'm also aware that my symptoms could surely be psychosomatic and the resulting anxiety perhaps induced from only using sativa.

Like you said, "vaporize in an attempt to lessen the toxicity exposure", so a pretty sizable increase in ammonia is concerning to me, even if everything else is minimized.

I realize, like previous stated, everybody reaction is going to be different.

I guess what I meant with "public" is that, if the ammonia level were indeed toxic enough and enough people after long term use are getting unique symptoms only attributed to vapor usage, I figure it would have been shown on aggregate user reports from medically prescribed users, or even from customers of the products.

I'm not hoping to scaremonger. I just take comfort in knowing the long term effects of smoking vs the unknown with vaping.

You are right and I have these symptoms too. I also have to blame my Sativa's because I couldn't pin poin; it until now.

It's definitely hepatic encephalopathy you are describing and I get it too. It's not fun and I get tremors and shakes I can't control.

Sometimes a hit sets it off sometimes too much.

Here is the hepatic encephalopathy symptoms.

• decreased self-care ability
• deterioration of handwriting or loss of other small hand movements
• coarse muscle tremors
• muscle stiffness or rigidity
• seizures (rare)
• yellow skin, jaundice
• speech impairment
• movement, uncontrollable
• movement, dysfunctional
• breath odor
• gynecomastia, breast development
• agitation
• Babinski's reflex
• decerebrate posture

I get the muscle issues and during the high (especially cerebral) it's hard to tell if you are just medicated or forgetful lol.

I self test myself (name, date, president) and always seem to come out okay and assume it's not encephalopathy. Look at the triggers though.

"In people with otherwise stable liver disorders, hepatic encephalopathy may be triggered by episodes of gastrointestinal bleeding, excessive dietary protein, or electrolyte abnormalities (especially decrease in potassium, which may result from vomiting or treatments such as diuretics or paracentesis). The disorder may also be triggered by any condition that results in alkalosis (alkaline blood pH), low oxygen levels in the body, use of medications that suppress the central nervous system (such as barbiturates or Benzodiazepine tranquilizers), infections including viral hepatitis, bile duct obstruction, surgery, or any coincidental illness."

The test for ammonia clearly shows alkalosis. It also shows high levels of ammonia which are triggers! Along with underlying conditions patients could actually be getting negative results from vaping!

 

[biohacker]

@biohacker : not that I feel concerned by your "intimidated" remark, but many people including me just tried to give you general advice, then moved on... because well, even if we really do wish you all the best and to get better, this is the "ammonia during vaporizing" thread, not the "biohacker's ammonia smelling night sweats" one...

Maybe you could start a thread about C. withdrawal symptoms, I'm sure it would interest FC readers and I'd gladly share my experience with you over there, and discuss the matter.

I hope you don't think I was referring to you, because I was not. Especially based on my direct reply to you, I don't see how you would have thought that. There are a couple of other forum members who are, but there is some history in other threads. Some people just can't accept opinions other than their own. I do take offence to when people think they know what my issues are, even though i'm perfectly healthy and going through a drug detox. There is another thread, that i'm updating practically daily... since this IS the ammonia thread, I thought I could post my experiences on what I thought was sweat that smelled like ammonia. It's cool, this will be my last post here. I should know better.

Biohacker I can assure to you that your symptoms are not related to withdrawal as cannabis is not physically addicting and your body is not giving you these night sweats because it is needing cannabinoids to function.

Oh really? Thanks for your assurance. I completely disagree.

The sweats are as some pointedout an underlying health issue; related to liver function.

Thanks Doctor. Interesting how the blood lab on my liver is flawless. You sound like my mom's freak holistic friend, who looks at me and says there is something wrong with my liver She would LOVE to sell me a liver cleanse. And no shit, vaping like I did is surely not going to improve the function of my liver, is it? Thanks again tips.

Your ammonia levels could be excessive keytones (protein rich diet, starving; lack of carbohydrates, body burning muscle for energy), which is your body burning muscle(protein) for energy. This, along with a protein rich diet or starvation will cause ammonia smell.

It's ketones by the way. And yes, it can cause it, and has. I've already said this. It doesn't mean it's a bad thing either, especially based on the latest science that a Ketogenic Diet is extremely beneficial, and that FAT is actually our bodies prefered fuel source, not glucose. (Right @grokit?)

You are right the sweating is your body's natural way to remove toxins. In terms of hyperhydrosis your body needs salt to retain water. Pink salts are high in arsenic and other heavy metals and I stay away from them.

I would love for you to back this up. I thought pink salts from Himalaya are the most healthy of them all.

You're right about proper diet. You need rice as your staple and rich dense nutritious veggies to detox the ammonia. Things like carrot juice for breakfast, cabbage for lunch, spinach for dinner, etc. Free range chicken, and grass fee beef is also good.

I NEED rice as my staple? Funny how there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. Oh, BTW - rice is extremely high in arsenic.

I can assure you if the smoke is bothering you it's either the strain, medium/food it was grown with, ammonia, or you are doing like me and worrying about something you know is bothering you but you can't put your finger on it.

Thanks again for the assurance. Not sure why you even would say that, if you read my posts you should know that I can put my finger on it, indeed. What smoke? This is Fuck Combustion.

Nothing to do with withdrawal and we need to figure out how to remove the ammonia.

Ofcourse it isn't. It's not like i've been through this before eh?

Truth is a lot of foods play a role in our response to this medicine and if anyone cares about smoking ammonia than there are diet choices you would have to change too because a lot of foods have decent amounts of protein (broccoli being one), and if you aren't working out or building all that protein is wasted and turns into ammonia.

Ummm, what? Brocolli has a decent ammount of protein? All this time i'm pounding back meat and whey protein....damn, it's not wonder why I can't grow any muscle. And all unused protein is wasted and turns into ammonia? I think I need to go back to school and work on another degree. Please stop spreading misinformation.

Any issues with liver function and this ammonia hit's the blood stream and you can't go to sleep because it keeps your brain awake lol.

Guess i'm good then, I have no issues going to sleep. It's the early wakeups that are bothersome presently, but again, even though i'm wrong - i've been through this before, and sleep gradually becomes deeper and longer, and dreams do come back.

Another contributor of ammonia is H. Pylori. While there is a breath test for it. It's safe to undergo a diet change to fight this bacteria as 50% of the world has it and it creates ulcers, and releases ammonia in the body by taking the urea in your stomach. It lives in the lining and evades the stomach acid.

It can also cause colon cancer. Happened to my mom. There is also new research emerging on H.Pylori, and it's not as black and white as once thought.

The test for ammonia clearly shows alkalosis. It also shows high levels of ammonia which are triggers! Along with underlying conditions patients could actually be getting negative results from vaping!

Surprise surprise. How could there be any negative results from vaping? Perhaps too much causes ammonia or acetone smelling night sweats? Surely heavy cannabis usage couldn't do this, could it?

Like the cold/flu thread, i'm not smart enough to participate here. Obviously my direct past experiences and dependencies on vaping are purely imaginative. Must be all that built up ammonia in my body, because like everyone says, marijuana can't be physically addictive. It's just can't be.

In two minutes on google:

If you smoke marijuana, you’re inhaling 20 times as much ammonia as you would inhale by smoking the same amount of tobacco.

This Canadian government-affiliated study also found three times as much ammonia in secondhand marijuana smoke as in secondhand tobacco smoke.

a recent study compared tobacco and cannabis smoke and found that directly inhaled cannabis smoke contained 20 times as much ammonia and 5 times as much hydrogen cyanide as tobacco smoke. Nitrogen oxides were five times as concentrated in cannabis smoke

I understand there is a difference between smoke and vapor, but that doesn't mean that vaping can't release even more ammonia. But yeah, ofcourse the night sweats cant be related to withdrawal or diet. Denial is an incredible thing, especially when everyone knows what is in their hearts is right. The poison is in the dose.

If anybody is interested in following up on my experiences, I can be found here:

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/having-a-rough-time-taking-a-break.15689

 

[RadiationSnow]

I am not a Doctor. Let me know if you are one too Biohacker. If so I will let you continue to rant about cannabinoid addiction. Which is physically impossible as the cannabinoid receptor is far different from the receptor that causes opiate dependence and gives the user the therapeutic results.

"There is a huge difference between dependence; a physiological need for a substance, and addiction."

"Physiological dependence can be compared to the dependence that a diabetic has to insulin. The dame dependence we have to food and water. A physiological dependence that is very demanding, but psychologically neutral.

You can take insulin everyday solely without being a diabetic. You can be a doctor, a teacher, father, mother, and a diabetic as well.

A heroin addict however; wakes up and can only be a heroin addict".

I hate to break it to you but the truth is in the pudding. Cannabis patients would be having these symptoms and be physically dependent the same way you are stating you are. Which (not being rude) sounds just like someone said. Heroin or winos.

"Thanks Doctor. Interesting how the blood lab on my liver is flawless. You sound like my mom's freak holistic friend, who looks at Thanks Doctor. Interesting how the blood lab on my liver is flawless. You sound like my mom's freak holistic friend, who looks at me and says there is something wrong with my liver She would LOVE to sell me a liver cleanse. And no shit,vaping like I did is surely not going to improve the function of my liver, is it? Thanks again tips."


AST, and ALT are only shown for liver damage. Sugar, Fat, and even THC can raise AST and ALT levels. Just like alcohol can cause fatty liver disease.

I have liver disease and my levels are well within ranges (30-40) that are acceptable and I still was given lactulose.

You see there are functions of the liver that we don't even know about don't be naive and people (including your mothers holistic friend) that are trying to tell you something.. And I am not selling anything.

"Surprise surprise. How could there be any negative results from vaping? Perhaps too much causes ammonia or acetone smelling night sweats? Surely heavy cannabis usage couldn't do this, could it?

Like the cold/flu thread, i'm not smart enough to participate here. Obviously my direct past experiences and dependencies on vaping are purely imaginative. Must be all that built up ammonia in my body, because like everyone says, marijuana can't be physically addictive. It's just can't be."

It's not physical dependence because the cannabinoid system isn't like that. Do you realize babies would dependent as there is cannabinoids in breast milk.

The underlying issue is ammonia and just because your liver function tests show normal bilirubin or AST and ALT you need to understand that ammonia can still be in your body at high levels and this isn't a liver test. It would be ammonia serum levels. Separate tests aside from liver.

"Ummm, what? Brocolli has a decent ammount of protein? All this time i'm pounding back meat and whey protein....damn, it's not wonder why I can't grow any muscle. And all unused protein is wasted and turns into ammonia? I think I need to go back to school and work on another degree. Please stop spreading misinformation"

"Reduced or no protein in diet is prescribed to reduce ammonia production. Vegetable protein may be tolerated better than animal protein. Specially formulated intravenous or enteric feedings (tube feedings) may be necessary.

Lactulose prevents absorption of ammonia from the intestines and acts as a laxative to evacuate blood from the intestines. Neomycin may be given by mouth to reduce ammonia production by intestinal bacteria. Sedatives, tranquilizers, or any other medication that is metabolized or excreted by the liver should be avoided. Medications containing ammonium (including certain antacids) should be avoided. Other medications and treatments may be recommended, with variable results"

Yes Broccoli is a better protein choice as it's alkaline and easier to absorb.

Look man it all is related to your diet and easily points to what you eat. Especially if you are eating that much protein. That's whole issue right there.

Pink salt analysis are out there and show heavy metal content along with the fact the pink indicates oxidative Iron (very bad for the body).

Outburst like these though are counter productive to the topic and I still think you have relevance here; in the form of Ammonia, not withdrawal.

And! I refer to meds as smoke. I don't obviously mean fucking combustion.

I'm not a scientist. This wasn't done in a laboratory. And I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

A "fun" experiment using a reputable-brand aquarium test kit that was not expired, tap water filtered through a Brita pitcher (the filter is probably half-way through its life), and a few sessions with a MFLB and Louts through a MF Orbiter (50 hits or so). I used a Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) meter for fun, too.


A 1/4cup of water was used; 5ml from the 1/4c was taken for the tests. (Likewise for the post-vape test: 5ml was taken from the Orbiter after swirling the contents.) The ammonia test was done per manufacturer guidelines.

Post-Vape:
-The TDS more than doubled. No surprise.
-The ammonia reading went off the chart, over 8ppm.

Left: before vaping. Right: after vaping.



"For what it's worth."

I think this is the cause of your excessive ammonia in your test.

As you can see there is extremely high levels of ammonia in synthetic nutrients.

We need more information in regards to what "high quality" defines here.

Synthetic grown; fed to harvest. Grown in soil/coco. Flushed for 1, or 2 weeks? Was it wet medicine or dry? Cured or non cured?

I believe water content in medicine could fundamentally play a huge role in this along with feeding types and even medium types.

I have preached flush and harvest to the point of yellow leaves (fade) for a long time due to my belief that green signifies life and scientifically high levels of chlorophyll and nitrogen (and possibly ammonia now, dependent upon mechanism).

You see cannabis is annual and does not regrow (aside from reveg) so you want the fruit to be yellow and not rich of growing nutrients when you harvest.

Not really easy to do in terms of supply and demand.

If fed to harvest ammonia levels could be extreme (especialy rush dried) if not flushed. All the nutriets still within the leaves.

And if dried too fast, and not cured all of that is staying in the medicine.

I wanted to buy a vape today and stumbled upon this post lol. Still don't know what I am gonna do now as I am a medical patient and highly sensitive to ammonia with my condition.

Thank you for your test and please if you can update us with this information in regards to the meds that would be awesome!

-Snow

 

[biohacker]

@RadiationSnow - Sorry for being so snarky and sarcastic, I take back my tone/outburst, although your perception may have not been my intention - just a little sleep deprived as my circadian rythem seems to flips when I go through this. First of all, Welcome to FC!!!

I think we disagree more than agree. Dependence or addiction, makes no difference to me. I'm sorry because I just feel like I keep repeating myself, and I know my body very well. I went through this before....the sweats stopped after 5 weeks. I 100% agree it's the meds, always strong hydro - including heavy concentrates, at high doses over a very, very long term. It's hard, because I am experimenting with diet as well, but i'm not in ketosis for more than the night/day...I eat carbs every day, and actually eat a fairly low protein, high fat diet.

I respect and appreciate the knowledge you bring to the table. I am not a doctor, but I actually think that is a good thing - being a doctor means nothing IMO, especially GP's! Just an aside, it's better to edit your post than to double, or triple post - it makes it harder for the mods.

Anyways, I said that would be my last post, and I know many don't appreciate my posts in this thread anyway, so imma gunna go back to just lurking here. If you wanna share ideas or chat, please feel free to PM me....I would love to discuss many of the points, especially on himalayan pink salt and diet. You seem to know something about biochemistry, and I really like that. Also I would really love to have some vape talk with you, i've been at this game for over a decade now (vaping exclusively). Cheers!

 

[RadiationSnow]

@Biohacker no worries man. I understand the situation you are going through more than anyone here I bet. I have qualifying conditions and was glad to learn that Cannabis was one of the only substances I could use. It really has no negative health impacts on the body (in my strong opinion), no dependency (I understand we agree to disagree), and a huge range of therapeutic capabilities.

However that is just the cannabinoids with on the flowering buds that holds this non-toxic chemical we want for medicinial use.

There are many things still left within the leaves! And every other part of the plant since THC and CBD are just a defense mechanism of the plant and a product that is solely produced on the leaves.

So while this may be redundant and a little over the top to think about. Any plant matter that is put into the oven is gonna burn something harmful.

Which is why I want this test on bubble hash, or concentrate not created from Butane (coconut oil with THC is far stronger and more potent than BHO. As coconut oil is a MCT and is metabolised by the portal vein of the liver. If you add lecithin to this it becomes way stronger than other concentrates).

You see everything we consume is an action and every action has a reaction. So I wouldn't just put it off to withdrawal.

You say you vape and when you stop things get better.

You say it's top quality hydro (which means synthetics is used because organics is hard for hydroponics as bacteria goes crazy in the res in organic hydro) which might not be flushed properly.

My strong belief is that you would get addicted to the synthetics in the nutrients before a dependency of cannabinoids.

Maybe you should source some veganic medicine (organcally grown with no animal by-product) and see how your reaction is.

If you cultivate then take some of the nutrients you use and do a skin allergy test.

I truly believe the cause of this test is improperly grown medicine that is expressing the nutrients used within the leaves and other parts of plant matter that is used to medicate (bud, leaf,).

And vaporization is heating all this up (which could be an issue in vaporization because vapor as we know is water moisture. Which would hold ammonia compared to smoke) and not fully breaking it down like heat would.

So if ammonia is shown in this study I wonder what else is lurking around .

PS, you aren't the only one who uses pink salt. I myself have a couple Himalayan pink salts from Trader Joe's!

I am just a normal medical guy that was in a situation where I thought bud was causing me withdrawal symptoms.

I kid you not I could probably find you the post where I thought I was having withdrawal symptoms (grasscity) because of a health problem.

Come to find out it was Garlic and Garlic is a poison (Bob Beck), gave up Garlic and the symptoms went away.

Sorry about the post formats and lack of citation. You can copy anything I have posted and find the literature, or ask and I will cite it PM if it's off topic. I am on Ios and it's not fun lol.

-Snow

 

[KeroZen]

@RadiationSnow : you sound very assertive and are a bit quick to dismiss the existence of any withdrawal symptoms with weed, when there is a lot of scientific litterature attesting the contrary. I for one do experience mild to strong symptoms for a few days when I stop. Indeed nothing comparable to opiates withdrawal, which I also experienced, but nonetheless there are physical effects that are not due to one's imagination.

I didn't read everything you said, I think I stopped when you talked about arsenic, then told him to consume rice, and that reminded me this recent study about UK rice products and how tainted with arsenic they are: http://money.aol.co.uk/2014/11/03/arsenic-risk-in-your-rice-products/ and http://www.abdn.ac.uk/research/research-impact/arsenic-in-rice-204.php

So if you are not a doctor like you reminded us, please don't try to sound like one.

Also what you said about synthetics in the hydro nutrients sounded like bullshit to me. As far as I know the only difference is in the bio-availability and the source of nitrogen (urea based or not) but ultimately, digested by bacterias or not, you only end with N, P and K and a handful of trace elements. And it's easier to flush hyroponic substrates in case of excess, whereas with soil when there are too much nutrients it's hard to get rid of it. On top of that you have no idea where your soil comes from and what it contains. Could have been dug near a trash-yard or from a polluted area... with inert mediums, no such problem.

 

[GR]

Maybe there is something we can all agree on. This thread has gone way off topic and most of the discussion belong in the medical section.

I would like to continue this but in its own thread. My credentials are I am a long time user of large amount of cannibis, have taken many breaks, been through narcotic withdraw on multiple occasions, I am married to an M.D., grower, and advocate of cannabis. Hopefully I meet your criteria to post in a on topic thread without being belittled.

Now I would love to here about more test results of ammonia from distilled water being used to filter the vapor and to a lesser degree of combusted herb (if anyone still does that).

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

! Hey guys a friend of mine is having ammonia problem due to supplements.. he does not even use MJ.. Anyway from what he told me there are two different ammonia level measurements.. Those of Urine and Those of Serum. So ammonia in Urine is pretty normal from the junk we eat and live in.. but in serum it is a bad thing.. So he is going to combine few detox herbs and stuff and i will let you know how it goes.
He is going to start with Milk Thistle.Is magic spheres grow everywhere around my neighbourhood , the seeds are where the magic is.. This is probably the best thing for liver detox.. They give it to people experienced severe mushroom poisioning cause it not only detoxifies but helps you regenerate liver tissue.. !!!
Anyway you can do the research on your own.. He is going to use both extract 2 tims daily and make tea of the seeds.

The other thing is
DL-Methionine
Application range:
Treatment and prevention of liver damage (cirrhosis, steatosis), poisoning hepatoksycznymi drugs, alcohol, ammonia. Prevention and treatment of gallstone disease and cancers. Allergies, Parkinson's disease, urinary tract infection and bile duct disease, skin, nails and hair, diabetes, atherosclerosis, increase exercise capacity, decreased in the elderly, mental stimulation, and improving mental processes.
DOSAGE:
An adult needs 20 mg of methionine per kg of body weight per day, or about 1.5 g of methionine to day. In depression, Parkinson's disease and diseases of old age should be combined with vitamin. Methionine should be administered at a dose of 1-5 g / day, preferably two times a day over a long period - several months or years. If the scheduled therapy is longer methionine best used at a dose of 500-800 mg / day.
Poisoning: 2.5 g methionine at 4 hours, together with vitamin C (500 mg).
Acne chronic diseases, hair and nails: - 500 mg 2 times a day for at least 6 months.
CONTRAINDICATIONS AND PRECAUTIONS:
Methionine should not be administered with hepatitis, as there are logical theoretical basis that methionine can increase the synthesis of protein components and nucleic wirusa.Nie administered with metabolic acidosis and renal tubulointerstitial, severe liver failure, kidney urate.
Interactions:
Enhances the effect of ampicillin, carbenicillin, sulfonamides, nitrofurantoin and nalidixic acid.
He also plans going on long run practice 2h daily,sweating aid detox greatly.
I will let you know how things work out for him.. In the meantime i am going to brew myself some milk thistle seeds tea.. they smell actually really nice..

 

[grokit]

In addition to milk thistle and DL-Methionine, N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine is also very good for liver function.

 

[TheMedicalStoner]

Sooo any news on this? I just found out about this and am actually kind of shocked by the ammonia levels...
Eventhough I'm having a hard time finding exact ppm levels measured (or the study in general) it's still something I rather not want in my body lol

It most likely comes from the high levels of ammonia used in plant food (hmm i wonder if there's ammonia free plant food with a replacement element for it or whatever lol, doubt it but eh, a man can hope, maybe someone knows).

Anywho, I just ordered a bubbler because I already had respiratory problems when smoking MMJ and I'm going to use a carbon filter (which adsorbs ammonia among other junk) with organic cotton on the top and bottom of it (so it kind of quad-filters, first through a piece of cotton, then coal, then cotton, then water) so I assume I will be able to pretty much get rid of most of it that way right?

I actually stopped smoking (normal and MMJ) to get rid of toxic garbage like that, turns out a vaporizers amplifies it xD nice lol.

 

[DDave]

I read somewhere that Cannabis should be flushed of residual nitrogen before harvest, since these residues appear to be linked to unsafe levels of amonia produced by vaporized cannabis.

If this is even remotely true, then one with these concerns could be very selective of the source of their meds. Selectiing trustworthy dispensaries could possibly minimiize somee of the risk.

 

[grokit]

With with hydroponics, it's important to use an active flushing agent before harvest. This is one of the benefits of having a personal garden, you can use organic nutrients in soil or flushing agents with hydro. It's also a good line of questioning to pursue if interviewing caregivers, or evaluating dispensaries.