Alpine 2020/2021 - Induction Heater

[TommyDee]

Good Randall got back to you. Yea, there is a difference between a charging supply and an actual power supply to run the unit. Interesting thought though. I don't know what it would hurt to have a full power supply power the unit when the battery is down. Technically, they are the same leads as the battery leads. The wiring could be different though. I will say having tested a lot of li-ion solutions, I may need to rethink LiPo chemistry. However, this doesn't alleviate my charge current concerns. I need to look into that some more. I am waiting for some of the very same BMS circuits for evaluation. Randall is welcome to pop in here and give us his thinking on this. This is my only holdout at the moment. Nice to know the low voltage shutoff is working properly.

On my meter, which is poorly calibrated, I get 11.25V for 2 GRN lights and 11.24V for 1 GRN light. I get a firing voltage of 10.6V in this state with only the RED light on. This tells me that the meter is tuned for "keep me charged".

For my usage, this A'20 will easily keep up with a day's use. Very impressed so far with the performance and the build for such a hyped release. They actually delivered, although I feel for the popped-top recipients. A few reservations but overall, still holding at 8.5/10 in my book.

 

[acstorfer]

although I feel for the popped-top recipients.

Mine has a popped-top. Still works fine and easy enough to glue back on. I emailed Source. I’m hoping for a top with correct magnet orientation to be sent to me. Then I’ll actually prefer the popped top.

 

[RustyOldNail]

Good Randall got back to you. Yea, there is a difference between a charging supply and an actual power supply to run the unit. Interesting thought though. I don't know what it would hurt to have a full power supply power the unit when the battery is down. Technically, they are the same leads as the battery leads. The wiring could be different though. I will say having tested a lot of li-ion solutions, I may need to rethink LiPo chemistry. However, this doesn't alleviate my charge current concerns. I need to look into that some more. I am waiting for some of the very same BMS circuits for evaluation. Randall is welcome to pop in here and give us his thinking on this. This is my only holdout at the moment. Nice to know the low voltage shutoff is working properly.

On my meter, which is poorly calibrated, I get 11.25V for 2 GRN lights and 11.24V for 1 GRN light. I get a firing voltage of 10.6V in this state with only the RED light on. This tells me that the meter is tuned for "keep me charged".

For my usage, this A'20 will easily keep up with a day's use. Very impressed so far with the performance and the build for such a hyped release. They actually delivered, although I feel for the popped-top recipients. A few reservations but overall, still holding at 8.5/10 in my book.

Would you say it’s still worth the current listed price of $149.00 US, versus a Fluxer Deluxe with 3x the battery capacity for about the same price? I realize most of you bought it at half the listed price on the initial preorder price, but at the list price, doesn’t seem to be in the same class as a Fluxer, hardware wise?

 

[thunderstealer1337]

@InvisiKat can you share your method of communication, I have a Dm to randal via reddit asking to check on my order, since yesterday. No response from him,but he posted up that he contacted everyone who has tried to contact him about no movement from 7/2 shipments.

So I'm just confused and waiting for update again....

 

[TommyDee]

@RustyOldNail - that is a very good question. Indeed, I paid the full $bill for mine. I cannot complain in the least even at this price-point. I also thought I'd have it about 30 days sooner. If I'd taken advantage of the coupon <I'm stupid when it comes to that crap> it'd been a steal!

So @$149 with a coupon sure to be received upon signing up, that makes it a $120-deal. Over and above Apollo 2? Fuck yea! But Apollo 2 is a different type of IH although it hits this price-point for a wired device. Maybe the A'20 doesn't beat the Apollo 2 in overall simplicity but definitely in aesthetics. Time will tell if the praise is warranted.

The Fluxer will tip the pocketbook a little harder. However, I will say Fluxer is competitive in the fit&finish. Fluxer will always have the personal touch. These A'20's are commercial units with the trappings of commercial flaws. I have glue wiped from the wood surface, for instance. Jeff would never let that go.

And of course the PSM. I know @Pipes has done his homework on the PSM. His lipo charging solution is sound and solid; time proven. It is this rigor that I weigh against the A'20's charging decisions. This is where my reservations lie. PSM has competition though.

My observation with regard to charging is certainly not a show stopper. It just needs a lower power 12.6V supply to fully charge the battery and not drive the charge devices to hard. If they do start failing, we'll hear about it. That's why there is a warranty. Still the question remains - how do we change batteries when the time comes?

@thunderstealer1337 - it wouldn't be the first time I've contacted post offices where my package was last seen and ask them to lay hands on it.

 

[babaganush]

They said this can be used as a plug-in IH as well, and I plan to keep this plugged in most of the time unless going out. Would any of you feel like this would become an issue with heat or Li battery deterioration? Asking cause some of you have concerns with the charger.

 

[InvisiKat]

@InvisiKat can you share your method of communication, I have a Dm to randal via reddit asking to check on my order, since yesterday. No response from him,but he posted up that he contacted everyone who has tried to contact him about no movement from 7/2 shipments.

So I'm just confused and waiting for update again....

I just DMed him on Reddit too, must have caught him when he was online. Maybe DM again in case it got missed, or try on instagram

 

[TommyDee]

@babaganush - They did? I can see it as possible, sure. That is far from the norm we've grown accustomed to. Can you link us to that statement?

I can only say "Randall" is putting a lot of faith in the 10 amp BMS circuit. Technically, in my book, it is the same as a laptop 'always on charge' although they now have better BMS setups. They also use li-ion but lipo is cell phone fodder so same difference. Charge when you think about it, or like me, always leave on charge when home. Also for consistent performance, keep the power level topped off. Not ideal for storage, but I ain't stor'n nott'n. This thing will get used alot!

Would I trust the unit on a proper charger overnight? Maybe in time. It really doesn't take long to top off first thing in the morning. I can't see a reason to charge while firing but good to know Randall will stand behind it.

@RustyOldNail - I see an even greater call for your plug-in voltmeters Maybe a pass-through version so we can know when the cells are actually full.

 

[babaganush]

@babaganush - They did? I can see it as possible, sure. That is far from the norm we've grown accustomed to. Can you link us to that statement?

I can only say "Randall" is putting a lot of faith in the 10 amp BMS circuit. Technically, in my book, it is the same as a laptop 'always on charge' although they now have better BMS setups. They also use li-ion but lipo is cell phone fodder so same difference. Charge when you think about it, or like me, always leave on charge when home. Also for consistent performance, keep the power level topped off. Not ideal for storage, but I ain't stor'n nott'n. This thing will get used alot!

Would I trust the unit on a proper charger overnight? Maybe in time. It really doesn't take long to top off first thing in the morning. I can't see a reason to charge while firing but good to know Randall will stand behind it.

Actually I was wrong. Someone asked on their Instagram here if it can be plugged in 24/7 and their response was "you can leave it plugged in just turn it off via the switch when not in use". So I guess the answer is dont leave it on while plugged in unless in use.. I wonder if this thing stops receiving a charge when its on and at full battery--it should right?

 

[acstorfer]

Sorry, stupid question alert. Is there an indicator that tells me it’s fully charged?

 

[TommyDee]

There is not @acstorfer . I was suggesting @RustyOldNail to come up with a meter for that very reason. He made a cool one for Fluxer.

@babaganush - thanks for the clarification. Technically, yes, the BMS will keep the cells charged and protected to the level of the device. It won't be everybody's happy place for cells but LiPo is more forgiving to begin with. In the case where the battery is well charged and the wall charger is plugged in, the firing won't overdo the charger since the cells are there as the primary source and presumably fully charged, or nearly, since it is always being charged. It's an odd configuration but for the low duty cycle we present the device, it is not being stressed. Safety gurus tend to look at what -can- happened. I won't get into those things. Good thing the A'20 is a billet box with a solid bottom. That gets it bookoo kudos

The meter just went to 0 GRN and it was right at 10.6V. That means the range for 1 GRN is 11.2V - 10.6V.
That part is working very well. Indeed, when the last GRN light turns off, the voltage in the pack drops off quickly. It went to 10V and I could watch it fall to 9.5V during a firing. The second firing tripped the low voltage protection circuit. This is actually right on the mark with the battery curve. No green lights when just sitting there means it needs a charge.

@acstorfer - I suspect that when the 3rd GRN led is lit without firing, it is close to a full charge. It needs to be over 11.87V on mine to have 3 GRN lights and the charger is 12V so that says where the cutoff is. I just started a fresh charge from dead at 3:00 my time. I'll see where the cutoff is in peek voltage.

Took 1 hour to charge the Alpine 2020 with the provided charger. The end voltage reports to me as 12.18V which agrees with my more reliable meter.

 

[floribud]

Also it seems like it sparks more than my other electronics....

This is a bad sign, sounds like you may need to change some outlets.... or worse! Things shouldn't spark when you plug them it, but it does happen with older cheap outlets.

 

[TommyDee]

I haven't heard that tell-tale snap of an arc when plugging in the 2 amp supply. It does draw an instant 20 watts for a depleted pack.

 

[RustyOldNail]

There is not @acstorfer . I was suggesting @RustyOldNail to come up with a meter for that very reason. He made a cool one for Fluxer.

@babaganush - thanks for the clarification. Technically, yes, the BMS will keep the cells charged and protected to the level of the device. It won't be everybody's happy place for cells but LiPo is more forgiving to begin with. In the case where the battery is well charged and the wall charger is plugged in, the firing won't overdo the charger since the cells are there as the primary source and presumably fully charged, or nearly, since it is always being charged. It's an odd configuration but for the low duty cycle we present the device, it is not being stressed. Safety gurus tend to look at what -can- happened. I won't get into those things. Good thing the A'20 is a billet box with a solid bottom. That gets it bookoo kudos

The meter just went to 0 GRN and it was right at 10.6V. That means the range for 1 GRN is 11.2V - 10.6V.
That part is working very well. Indeed, when the last GRN light turns off, the voltage in the pack drops off quickly. It went to 10V and I could watch it fall to 9.5V during a firing. The second firing tripped the low voltage protection circuit. This is actually right on the mark with the battery curve. No green lights when just sitting there means it needs a charge.

@acstorfer - I suspect that when the 3rd GRN led is lit without firing, it is close to a full charge. It needs to be over 11.87V on mine to have 3 GRN lights and the charger is 12V so that says where the cutoff is. I just started a fresh charge from dead at 3:00 my time. I'll see where the cutoff is in peek voltage.

Took 1 hour to charge the Alpine 2020 with the provided charger. The end voltage reports to me as 12.18V which agrees with my more reliable meter.

Thanks, I made a little volt meter for the Fluxer, as it’s charge port is always LIVE. Most commercial devices like a Mighty, the charge port is NOT live. I’d be careful putting any device in a pocket or handbag, that a key or other metal object, could get in and short out the batteries, though unlikely, it’s always a possibility! I don’t own or plan on getting an Alpine.

Anyways, the link below is the post, which has a short list of what I used to make as tiny a meter as I could, and you can make for yourself, photos included.

Fluxer Heaters, induction heaters for Dynavap

How do you see the Fluxer Deluxe carrying it all day long? Is it not too wide to wear it in tight pants? A Flix-sized IH would be great along with a battery. I always say that the manufacturer that achieves a really pocket size IH will blow up the market I definitely want a Deluxe but the...

fuckcombustion.com

 

[Siebter]

[...]


[...]

Gosh. How are you guys supposed to change the batteries when they reached their EOL? Those LiPos will be good for 10-12 months when used daily.

I don't mean to spoil anyone's fun, but this seems like a bit of a ripoff for me, esp. for the actual retail price.

 

[thunderstealer1337]

I just DMed him on Reddit too, must have caught him when he was online. Maybe DM again in case it got missed, or try on instagram

That is really lame since I messaged him earlier then you and still havent gotten a response and even left another message that I DM him about my order when he posted up on another thread he will answer all questions - when someone was complaining it hasn't moved since 7/2 as well.

Literally everytime ppl get updates - I dont, and I wonder about it and go online to find some weird comment from owner that he already shipped/emailed/phonecalled/messaged EVERYONE about their preorders and/or everyone who has contacted them about the alpine.

Im just trying to get straight answers, every time I read updates that was blasted publicly - they do not align with what I see.

But then everyone backs the owner up like he walks on water or something lol, its just super awkward and confusing, to be fair I would not have cared if he said preorder was going to ship in July, but I bought this in May with expectations and multiple updates that this was ontrack for 6/5 shipping deliveries.

Edit: This is what I mean, no email no message to me at all, just randomly find this posted publicly, so who knows wtf is actually happening now, and I am now believing the rumor on reddit that the shipping labels were just mass printed on 7/2.

Hey Guys!

before i get back to everyones messages. seeing a lot of you post about the crazy tracking jumps for USPS. This is very frustrating to see and we are in talks with UPS and Fedex to try to switch our entire retail platform to them ( which is really unfortunate because this will likely be the end to free shipping on orders under $150)

on a side note: this is really a sad thing to see happen with such an establishment. growing up in an era of still receiving letters and packages from family etc.. but i digress

back on topic. we are seeing about 17 to 18 of you who are all from 7-2-20 that just have absolutely no update what so ever.

Where we stand now: At this point in time we are left with very few options. We will be moving forward with requesting a cancellation with USPS for all of whom have been affected this mishap.

What does this mean for you: With this course of action you will have 2 options

1. We will request to cancel and hope on our end the product comes back and or you receive a second one to ship back or keep. Once we get a confirmation from USPS that action has been taken (this typically takes 48 hours) we will then proceed to reship using UPS or Fedex (unless you are international then we will move you to DHL)
2. Your second option would be to receive a refund with the ability to repurchase later (this includes those who may have paid the pre-sale price). As much as we dislike this option we dislike holding peoples money even more.

Well what the heck happened!? : Based on the specific date we are digging into the possibility that an entire batch is now missing (this includes atomizer parts from other products that where ordered not related to alpine).

The Alternative theory (the one we hope is the case) is that a handful of you may have had a label generated but it just never left queue for printing. ( although we would like to think this as a possibility the likely hood is slim.)

Those seeking to take option 2 need only to message me and say option 2 and provide your order #!

For those taking option 1 we certainly appreciate your patience and will be including a free Dab Cap for the further delay.

I will still be reaching out via PM here on reddit to those who messaged me. hope you guys have a great day! wish I had better news for you.

 

[InvisiKat]

That is really lame since I messaged him earlier then you and still havent gotten a response and even left another message that I DM him about my order when he posted up on another thread he will answer all questions - when someone was complaining it hasn't moved since 7/2 as well.

Literally everytime ppl get updates - I dont, and I wonder about it and go online to find some weird comment from owner that he already shipped/emailed/phonecalled/messaged EVERYONE about their preorders and/or everyone who has contacted them about the alpine.

Im just trying to get straight answers, every time I read updates that was blasted publicly - they do not align with what I see.

But then everyone backs the owner up like he walks on water or something lol, its just super awkward and confusing, to be fair I would not have cared if he said preorder was going to ship in July, but I bought this in May with expectations and multiple updates that this was ontrack for 6/5 shipping deliveries.

try here too https://sourcevapes.customerdesk.io/

aaand I just realized my wood top is only half glued on

 

[Mono Loco]

Thanks, I made a little volt meter for the Fluxer, as it’s charge port is always LIVE. Most commercial devices like a Mighty, the charge port is NOT live. I’d be careful putting any device in a pocket or handbag, that a key or other metal object, could get in and short out the batteries, though unlikely,

I imagine one could procure a rubber plug/cap that seals that jack/port if there are concerns. I've seen some builders who use a tethered plug ... I like that feature, actually. My wife and I are ALWAYS arguing (well ... "discussing/debating", let's call it) over conflicting priorities of Practical-vs-Aesthetically pleasing, Form-vs-Function, Style-vs-Utility, etc. Yeh, the plug looks ugly, perhaps, but ... I ain't so pretty either!

 

[acstorfer]

Gosh. How are you guys supposed to change the batteries when they reached their EOL? Those LiPos will be good for 10-12 months when used daily.

I don't mean to spoil anyone's fun, but this seems like a bit of a ripoff for me, esp. for the actual retail price.

Worst case scenario, we spent $80.00 for a really nice plug in IH.

 

[TommyDee]

Well, I can tell you your meter would work on the Alpine 2020 too. Yes, its always live. And shallow to boot.

I think I figured out the onboard meter. 3 green lights means charged.

Thanks for linking that @RustyOldNail .

 

[thunderstealer1337]

try here too https://sourcevapes.customerdesk.io/

aaand I just realized my wood top is only half glued on

i updated my post, looks like he lost the entire shipment or lost only 17/18 of them from the 7/2 shipment???, and then lost a entire atomizer shipment??? His message is so cryptic man

Why dont you email the customers direct and not blast it on some public forum? So confusing

 

[TommyDee]

He lost or USPS lost?

 

[thunderstealer1337]

He lost or USPS lost?

I dunno, like I said its cryptic ass message, I quoted the entire thing.

Confused like you, how a entire inbound delivery to him was lost and 17/18 Alpine outbound deliveries that were made on 7/2 were lost as well??

 

[TommyDee]

Sounds fucked up no matter how it is.

 

[InvisiKat]

I dunno, like I said its cryptic ass message, I quoted the entire thing.

Confused like you, how a entire inbound delivery to him was lost and 17/18 Alpine outbound deliveries that were made on 7/2 were lost as well??

I order a ton of stuff online. Sometime USPS doesn’t scan stuff but in my personal experience it literally always gets delivered eventually. Probably a batch that didn’t get scanned. USPS is getting fucked from both ends right now and cannot keep up. I agree their customer service is weirdly inconsistent but I think the shipping problem is all USPS.