Alcohol versus oil extraction for edibles?

M

Maryland Vapor

Well-Known Member
Which do you prefer, and why?

By alcohol extraction, I mean rso/super long QWET soak, then reduced to sappy level for infusion to oil.

From my reading, it seems like the general consensus is that
1. Oil(coconut/olive/mct/etc) extracts about 80% of the goodies with a thorough soak.

2. Butter is at about 70% in the same circumstances.

3. Alcohol(190 Everclear) should, by my guestimation (but admittedly, I know not of what I speak, just using online anecdotal info re:RSO), be in the 95%+ range with a multi hour soak.

The voice of reason in my head says that the alcohol extraction should be the most convenient/versatile, as well as "adjustable strength" at lower dosage.

Thoughts?

Comments?
 
Maryland Vapor,
M

Maryland Vapor

Well-Known Member
ALSO....

I also think that there will/would be less waste, because I would not feel guilty tossing the leftover plant matter after alcohol extraction, but might balk at knowingly throwing away 200mg of edible goodness.
 
Maryland Vapor,
Tuck

Tuck

Well-Known Member
I tend to do an alcohol extraction, because straining cold alcohol is easier than straining hot butter/coconut oil. If I want to do baked goods, I'll just evaporate the alcohol off and add that hashy mixture to the butter/oil. I use 151 Proof everclear or Rum. My area doesn't let us have that 190 Proof stuff.
 
Tuck,
invertedisdead

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
You can adjust the potency by diluting with more of your carrier oil. Like the above poster I also don’t have access to 190 proof, so I like to use cooking oil as the solubility is very high which allows for high doses in small amounts.

I do a rosin extraction then decarb and infuse that into organic coconut oil which I load in cellulose capsules. I also use the rosin pucks for an additional oil infusion to make a topical.
 
S

sickmanfraud

Well-Known Member
The tinctures you make with freezing ethanol and cannabis are much better tasting than many of the options mentioned above.

However, if you are using for edibles (brownies) then taste is not as important.

The method I use I learned over at GC.

Decarb 240 F for 40 minutes.

Place decarbed cannabis in a jar and place the jar (w/cannabis) and ethanol in the freezer for 24 hours.

Combine Ethanol and cannabis and shake for 5 minutes. Return to freezer to minimize chlorophyll for 1 hour.

Remove from freezer, shake for 5 minutes. Strain the cannabis out of the ethanol. Then return the cannabis to the jar, add some fresh ethanol and shake for 5 minutes.

Strain, combine all the collected ethanol and then using a double boiler and absoloutly no flame. Reduce to your desired strength 3-4 grams per once is a good starting point.

Bottom line you can have an ethanol tincture in a bit more than 24 hours.
 
M

Maryland Vapor

Well-Known Member
So far, I've had the most success with

1 watercured abv mixed with some form of mct/coconut oil

2 mixing some semi-sketchy shatter of unknown origin into MCT oil to use as a tincture.

Both have produced the desired effect.

I have both fresh bud and trim(enough to experiment), not counting the regularly replenished ABV supply.

I may have been hyperbolic with the 190 Everclear, as the best I can get in my county is 151(which I haven't tried), or drive 15-20 minutes for 189(all Everclear (this is me rolling my eyes))...

Soooooooooooooooo...

@Tuck.... I agree on straining and then adding to our.

@inverted .... I don't have the tech readily and inexpensively available, or that might be the best option.

@bizwaxzion ... I can get my Everclear 189 at about the same price per pint(375ml).

@sickmanfraud ... That is damn close to what I have in mind. Almost RSO like, and can be used in a multitude of ways in miniscule amounts.
 
Maryland Vapor,
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Tuck

Tuck

Well-Known Member
I have to go about 45 minutes to get the 190 Proof. Or I can go across the street and get 151 Rum. I use the rum because it has less burn, if I keep it as a tincture.

I primarily experiment with ABV. I only have dispensary access. I need to try water curing. I actually tried the last time I did something with ABV. I made butter and had an accident. I spilled it all over the counter while straining. I was so mad at clumsy ass. Sticking to the method @sickmanfraud described the next time.
 
Tuck,
S

sickmanfraud

Well-Known Member
Maryland Vapor said:
@sickmanfraud ... That is damn close to what I have in mind. Almost RSO like, and can be used in a multitude of ways in miniscule amounts.
Click to expand...

When using 151 proof Rum or Everclear for best results you need to reduce it down to almost RSO to get rid of the extra water that is in the 151. If already reducing the "extracted alcohol" all the way to RSO you can consider ISO which is much much cheaper. You will find lots of opinions here whether to use ISO in an ingestible product, but when reducing to RSO the ISO is gone. Do your own research.

@Maryland Vapor please tell me about water currying AVB? I have about a 1.5-liter container full I was not happy with my last attempt to use AVB without a water cure. While I am already asking Questions do you Decarb your AVB?
 
sickmanfraud,
M

Maryland Vapor

Well-Known Member
sickmanfraud said:
When using 151 proof Rum or Everclear for best results you need to reduce it down to almost RSO to get rid of the extra water that is in the 151. If already reducing the "extracted alcohol" all the way to RSO you can consider ISO which is much much cheaper. You will find lots of opinions here whether to use ISO in an ingestible product, but when reducing to RSO the ISO is gone. Do your own research.

@Maryland Vapor please tell me about water currying AVB? I have about a 1.5-liter container full I was not happy with my last attempt to use AVB without a water cure. While I am already asking Questions do you Decarb your AVB?
Click to expand...
I have seen ISO recommended a lot for RSO, but right now it's impossible to find in my area. I can go into any liquor store outside of my county and get Everclear 189(or could buy Everclear 151 right across the street). Also, I think the price difference is moot(to me at least) as Everclear isn't prohibitively expensive, and I'd prefer to use a food safe solvent.

I watercure, but do not decarb, all my ABV. I use a cheap french press for ease of use, and change the water daily, using lukewarm water.

I keep it simple with the ABV, and usually just mix the still damp ABV (you can take the effort to dry it, but I usually don't) with oil and dump it all into brownies.
 
Maryland Vapor,
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Tuck

Tuck

Well-Known Member
I've been decarbing my AVB -- but it's because I grind rosin pucks up and decarb those for my edibles. And I throw the AVB in with it. I figure the more the merrier since I'm decarbing anyways.

For water curing, I picked up a cheap glass french press so I could see the water. It took about 3 days of water curing - changing the water 2 times the first day, till the water stayed pretty clear. I made butter so I wouldn't have to dry it out. When I do it again, I plan to dry it out before freezing it.
 
S

sickmanfraud

Well-Known Member
Maryland Vapor said:
$140 per gallon...o m g.....
Click to expand...

I pay about $208 for 4 liters. Which is why I bought an alcohol recovery still.

When I first started making Green Dragon tinctures I was able to get ethanol 96% for about $10 for 750ml.

If anyone has any edible questions I would be happy to help with edible questions here or if way off this topic you can message me.
 
Tuck

Tuck

Well-Known Member
Am I really gimping myself using 150 Proof (75%) alcohol? Should I make a run to the border and get some 190 proof everclear (hour or so round trip)? that seems more economical than $150s on amazon. Or just look for 91% ISO and go full extraction?

I don't make tinctures usually - I make baked good. I just prefer alcohol extractions because it is easier than oil/fat extractions. Lately what I've been doing with the rum is just adding it to the butter/coconut oil and letting it all hang out in the oven at 200F. Then I separate the water from the fat in the fridge.
 
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Tuck,
shredder

shredder

Well-Known Member
bizwaxzion said:
If you have any grow/hydro stores near you check there first. I just discovered mine carries both 99% iso and 200 proof enthanol at very reasonable prices and in quart/gallon/2.5gallon sizes.
Click to expand...

I can say, from experience, that the 200 proof ethanol is too hot for tinctures used orally. At least for me. One drop under the tongue was almost painful.

I made a 1 ounce tincture with 3 ml of RSO and the 200 proof ethanol. To make it easier to tolerate I reduced the volume by half on a coffee warmer, then replaced the evaporated alcohol with maple syrup. I keep it in a 1 ounce eye dropper bottle. One drop by my calculations is approx 4.5 mg. Four drops for me is a low threshold, six I'm cruising.

It's still kind of rough but easier for orally using it. As an ingredient in something, either way is good. The alcohol quickly evaporates in cooked food, and hardly noticable is a 12-14 oz juice drink.
 
iDRINKBLEACH

iDRINKBLEACH

knowing is half the power - Gi-JOE
Accessory Maker
I'm currently doing vegetable oil in a crock pot. Where I'm at right now in the boonies of tx supplies are limited with out travel, and with a cross country journey coming tomorrow I didnt want to leave. I would have preferred extracting first to get most plant matter gone for better taste and could easily make more potent since I'm using avb. Saved for 1 week on vacation20200923_120519_76_1_69.jpg
 
iDRINKBLEACH,
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M

Maryland Vapor

Well-Known Member
I just realized that I should respond besides "o m g", since I started the thread...

I have been using, simply for ease, MCT oil for most of my extractions. Most recently, 2g of some homegrown Northern Lights, properly decarbed. I mixed it with 1/4 cup MCT oil. I know it's not as strong as it could be, but it is what it is. Pressed in a garlic press. Right now, 1 dropper gets me to a 3 or so, 2 gets me to a 5. I haven't done more than that at once. Maybe this weekend.

After water curing and drying my abv, I lost about 1/3 by weight. 45g to just under 30g. Last use was as brownies. I used just under 10g(after water curing) in a boxed mix, and ended up with about 20-24 doses that would get me/us to 6+.


ETA: I just throw my ABV into whatever fat I am cooking with. No straining. Maybe 10-15% more fat in the recipe. Even the wife doesn't complain...
 
nms

nms

Well-Known Member
For purer extractions(meaning you will remove the solvent), people in europe can get ACS abs ethanol from here https://apcpure.com/, it's not cheap but it's safe to use. Shipping can be costly. Don't ever use ISO if you don't have the lab equipment to do the extraction, particularly a vacuum desiccator(over multiple days) but preferably a rotary evaporator. when using for instance a regular hot bath or air drying, bubbles of iso can be trapped within your concentrate which is heavily toxic when consumed.
 
M

Maryland Vapor

Well-Known Member
Update update UPDATE.... lol

I made butter with 30g of decarbed sugar trim and popcorn buds. Used 1 lb of unsalted butter. I strained the butter out with a french press, and got 15 oz back. On Thanksgiving, I made some stuffing with 2 tbsp, which turned out great!

Anyways.... I took the remaining mash, and did the equivalent of water curing in the french press over 6-7 days until I didn't see any more milk fat remnants, and the water was clear.

Last night, I tried to dry these leftovers in the oven, like I do with my water cured ABV. My intentions were, in the name of science, to do a long alcohol soak, a la RSO, and then reduce down the alcohol and add it to MCT oil for a sublingual tincture.

What I got out of the oven is a tray full of greasy weed, still wet feeling, that I don't think is right for an alcohol soak.

I think my best option is soak in MCT oil for as long as I can stand it, and go from there.

By my calculations, there should be about 1350 mg left in the pulp, and if I can get 80% of that, it'll be about 1080 in the MCT oil.

I guess I will find out if a second extraction is really worth while.

In the name of science, of course...
 
M

Maryland Vapor

Well-Known Member
I do admit that I keep hoping that somebody else has done something/anything like this at some point....

I am keeping this stuff ready for the next few days, and might use coconut oil (keeping the pulp mixed in) instead of MCT.

In the name of science...
 
Maryland Vapor,
S

sickmanfraud

Well-Known Member
Maryland Vapor said:
My intentions were, in the name of science, to do a long alcohol soak, a la RSO, and then reduce down the alcohol and add it to MCT oil for a sublingual tincture.
Click to expand...

IMO the only benefit a long soak will give you over a "freezer method" in one day, is a waste of time and you will make the tincture taste worse the longer you keep the ethanol and cannabis together.

I have been making between 2-5 tinctures per month for 8 years now, so I consider myself quite knowledgeable on the topic of ethanol tinctures.

I have experimented over the years and made plenty of mistakes along the way. Learn from my mistakes and other peoples' mistakes rather than repeat them.
 
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