AB 390-legalization of Marijuana in Caiforna

[jeg05]

Has anyone here herd of Assembly Bill 390 (AB 390) I have read the California is trying to pass a bill to legalize marijuana so they can tax the shit out of it, they said something like $14 billion in revenue for the state. If this passed do you people think that it would be long before it was legalized all over? I ask because if one state made it legal then there would be no way for the DEA to arrest everyone therefore there would be a influx of marijuana on the market which would make it cheaper and more readily available to other states. Not to mention that other state would realized how much money California is making from taxes and tourism, that they would have very little options but to legalize it, because in this time of economic decline to refuse such a new reliable resource for new jobs and taxes (not only taxes from the MJ but from property tax from new businesses as well) would be irresponsible of our states to burden people who need not be burdened. Well that?s just my please let me know what you all think.

 

[illadelph]

from what i heard it is just a proposition made by a politician who isnt even of significance. i also read something like they tax $50 per zip. i doubt we will see anything like this be put so quaintly into place anytime soon.

 

[Frickr]

well during the great depression, to help stimulate the ecconomy FDR signed the bill that leagalized alcohal again. and it worked. whats to say with the recession were in now, that this couldnt restimulate the economy again?

so what if he isnt of significant politician, are you trying to say that only major politicians can make effective decisions that could help out a region or state that is having trouble with deflict spending? This is the first time all out legalization has been on the board since the 70's. were reaching the top of the mountain again. ive been trying to find more information about it but all i can find is a little news coverage and whats on www.norml.org 's webpage.

i really hope this passes or atleast has a narrow loss. (most places took more then one vote to legalize medical) this is a major step forward. even if it doesnt get through, atleast the intrest and the idea is out there once again. were moving away from the reefer maddness and the regan madness that fallowed. i think as more people become aware the more likely this will happen.

 

[KeepCalm]

I.
I love you, California, you're the greatest state of all.
I love you in the winter, summer, spring and in the fall.
I love your fertile valleys; your dear mountains I adore.
I love your grand old ocean and I love her rugged shore.

Chorus
Where the snow crowned Golden Sierras
Keep their watch o'er the valleys bloom,
It is there I would be in our land by the sea,
Every breeze bearing rich perfume.
It is here nature gives of her rarest. It is Home Sweet Home to me,
And I know when I die I shall breathe my last sigh
For my sunny California.

II.
I love your red-wood forests - love your fields of yellow grain.
I love your summer breezes and I love your winter rain.
I love you, land of flowers; land of honey, fruit and wine.
I love you, California; you have won this heart of mine.

III.
I love your old gray Missions - love your vineyards stretching far.
I love you, California, with your Golden Gate ajar.
I love your purple sun-sets, love your skies of azure blue.
I love you, California; I just can't help loving you.

IV.
I love you, Catalina, you are very dear to me.
I love you, Tamalpais, and I love Yosemite.
I love you, Land of Sunshine, Half your beauties are untold.
I loved you in my childhood, and I'll love you when I'm old.





Sorry guys getting a little ahead of myself here!

 

[lwien]

Well, at least we MJ medical dispensaries, some with delivery services........so that's kinda neat. For me, I hope this bill doesn't pass because it would just mean that it would make my herb more expensive due to the additional taxes.

Getting a medical MJ card is pretty easy, and the 100 bucks that the card costs is way less than the taxes that would be incurred.

But from an unselfish standpoint, it would sure make sense to help balance the budget here.

BTW, Barney Frank, who is NOT a no-name politician has backed and proposed bills legalizing MJ...........big time.

 

[gak hater]

well during the great depression, to help stimulate the ecconomy FDR signed the bill that leagalized alcohal again. and it worked. whats to say with the recession were in now, that this couldnt restimulate the economy again?

ahh not to start an argument
but what got us out of the great depression was ww2
other things might of helped a little, but the war is what really saved us....

i also think its a snowballs chance in hell this will be passed
anytime soon.
more of a ignorant (in marijuana facts) generation in this country needs to die off first. :/

 

[sinenomine]

make my herb more expensive due to the additional taxes.

I have heard several people say this, but it absolutely is not true. Right now, the truly RIDICULOUS prices for herbal cannabis are only due to its prohibition, and the fact that its cultivation, distribution, and possession are all illegal. Naturally, people who are risking their freedom are going to want a lot more money.

From another perspective...

Saffron, after cannabis, is the world's most expensive flower/herb. Each "thread" must be picked by hand, and it takes around 20 hours to harvest one pound of it. ALso, it can only be harvested once a year. This brings its price to nearly $1,000 per lb. This price tag is semi-justified by its difficult harvesting, but its LEGAL. Contrast that to cannabis, which grows anywhere in the world, takes like an hour to harvest per pound, and needs merely to be manicured and dried before selling. It is fucking MIND BOGGLING that a disaster such as prohibition could artificially raise the price to five grand a pound.

No, even with the $50 per oz tax (which works out to about 1.75 per gram), legal cannabis would be far, FAR cheaper than it is now. Perhaps marginally more expensive than broccoli.

And of course, home growing would be legal as well...

 

[lwien]

make my herb more expensive due to the additional taxes.

I have heard several people say this, but it absolutely is not true. Right now, the truly RIDICULOUS prices for herbal cannabis are only due to its prohibition, and the fact that its cultivation, distribution, and possession are all illegal. Naturally, people who are risking their freedom are going to want a lot more money.

Cultivation, distribution and possession is NOT illegal, at least from a state perspective, here in Cali for medicinal purposes. I can go into a dispensary and get top quality medicinal grade bud for anywhere between 55 to 65 dollars an eighth. I would think that if this bill passes, and the state can tax it, they will tax it HEAVY and the price WILL go up.

If 55 to 60 bucks an eighth is the going price for medical legal bud in Cali, how can you say that the price will go down once tax is mandatory and state regulated ?

 

[Beezleb]

I would think the price would go down. Maybe not at first but you got to think the tobacco companies would embrace this. At least in my fantasy world they do.

 

[Acolyte of Zinglon]

gah this isnt going to pass, especially when earlier this yer the governor vetoed a bill that would simply protect mmj patient's employment rights...

were just getting ahead of ourselves with all this talk, all we can do is wait and see, and not get our hopes too high

 

[Frickr]

well why dont you guys in california step on the bandwagon, and promote it so to say to everyone around. encourage people to write to their local politicians expressing their views on why this "should" pass.

everyone wants change but noone wants to stand up and do anthing about it is the feeling i get from most of the pot smoking community. if i lived in california right now, i would be getting every person that i knew that supported all out legalization, to write or call their local politicians.

you know people that dont support the bill are calling and writing telling them that this should not pass. so why not turn the tables a bit?

i guess i see this as a milestone. others may not. call me an optimist if you wish.

i wished i lived in a state that had medical even. ive wrote many letters about that issue in our state. and i have yet to get a letter back from any politician.

i guess what im trying to say is those of you in california, is to get the message out that this is something a majority of the people wish to be put in effect.

well during the great depression, to help stimulate the ecconomy FDR signed the bill that leagalized alcohal again. and it worked. whats to say with the recession were in now, that this couldnt restimulate the economy again?

ahh not to start an argument
but what got us out of the great depression was ww2
other things might of helped a little, but the war is what really saved us....

i also think its a snowballs chance in hell this will be passed
anytime soon.
more of a ignorant (in marijuana facts) generation in this country needs to die off first. :/

people need incentives. what better way to create jobs, sales, taxes on both production and sales? think of how much money has been placed in the system just from the taxing of alcohol?

also i just looked on norml's webpage and the big news today is the 'U.S. Attorney General Says Justice Department Will No Longer Interfere With States? Medical Pot Policies'

so no more dea raids. things are looking up. if you look at it in the right way every little victory like this is just one more step leading up to atleast a national decriminalization.

 

[lwien]

Interesting thread here: http://forum.grasscity.com/medical-marijuana/346491-dea-ending-mmj-raids.html

 

[Frickr]

Interesting thread here: http://forum.grasscity.com/medical-marijuana/346491-dea-ending-mmj-raids.html

these people are seeing the same thing im seeng when it comes to these things. even if it still isnt a major shift, its still a step closer to the end goal. i have a feeling the next few years are going to be the breaking point in all out legalization.

 

[lwien]

Yep............the momentum is definitely swinging towards legalization. There's just more reasons to legalize it than not, especially in this economic climate, from increased state and federal revenues generated by taxation (over 1 billion dollars that California can desperately use, as an example) , to eliminating costs and time being waisted in our law enforcement efforts, our courts and our jails and prisons.

Check THESE stats out: http://www.inforesearchlab.com/smokingdeaths.chtml
....and yet cigarettes REMAIN a legal product. One thing those stats DON'T reflect is the cost of healthcare that we ALL pay incurred by health related issues revolving around cigarettes.

And the ONLY reason that cigarettes remains a legal product is because of the revenues that they generate, not only for the government, but also for the tobacco companies and farmers.

And don't EVEN get me started on the legal use of alcholol.

And yet, the use and sale of MJ is a federal crime?............Simply amazing, but there IS a wift of change in the air, which is becoming so thick, I can almost see it......

I know this shit has been discussed countless times before, but it's just mind boggling every time I think about it.

 

[sinenomine]

Cali state law allows like 12 plants per caregiver? Some counties have more, And some seedlings? of course the price is gonna remain high. When its state regulated, companies will be able to grow acres upon acres of fine bud, and the price will be almost nothing because of the huge, and legal supply.

 

[gak hater]

well why dont you guys in california step on the bandwagon, and promote it so to say to everyone around. encourage people to write to their local politicians expressing their views on why this "should" pass.

everyone wants change but noone wants to stand up and do anthing about it is the feeling i get from most of the pot smoking community. if i lived in california right now, i would be getting every person that i knew that supported all out legalization, to write or call their local politicians.

you know people that dont support the bill are calling and writing telling them that this should not pass. so why not turn the tables a bit?

i guess i see this as a milestone. others may not. call me an optimist if you wish.

i wished i lived in a state that had medical even. ive wrote many letters about that issue in our state. and i have yet to get a letter back from any politician.

i guess what im trying to say is those of you in california, is to get the message out that this is something a majority of the people wish to be put in effect.

well during the great depression, to help stimulate the ecconomy FDR signed the bill that leagalized alcohal again. and it worked. whats to say with the recession were in now, that this couldnt restimulate the economy again?

ahh not to start an argument
but what got us out of the great depression was ww2
other things might of helped a little, but the war is what really saved us....

i also think its a snowballs chance in hell this will be passed
anytime soon.
more of a ignorant (in marijuana facts) generation in this country needs to die off first. :/

people need incentives. what better way to create jobs, sales, taxes on both production and sales? think of how much money has been placed in the system just from the taxing of alcohol?

also i just looked on norml's webpage and the big news today is the 'U.S. Attorney General Says Justice Department Will No Longer Interfere With States? Medical Pot Policies'

so no more dea raids. things are looking up. if you look at it in the right way every little victory like this is just one more step leading up to atleast a national decriminalization.

yes things are looking up
but you have to realize some people's veiws on pot
are still VERY negative.
also the war against pot is BIG buisness
to lawyers,cops,and jails and the gov.
that makes them alot of money.
do you know the towns get paid for every prisoner taken to the county jail
around here? they won't even let people bail out untill they take them to county so they can get paid..
that all will be gone if its legal and that group
would be hugely opposed of it being legal.
when the michael phelps crap happened
i overheard a few people say his medals should of been stripped
and he is a disgrace to this country and should be in jail.
for fucking what?? hitting a bong?
you and i know that a huge load of crap but that is what is
being said and thought by alot of older people that have no clue besides what they have been told in the media about pot.
nevermind the hypocrites are drinking a beer as they are spewing this crap
from thier holes
but the negitive vibes are still very alive and well and out there.

i think in 10,15 years it might have a better chance
as that generation starts to die off,
that might turn the tide
or a really bad depression or event might help hurry up the cause
but right now i would be shocked if this happens today anywhere in the usa ...

 

[lwien]

Cali state law allows like 12 plants per caregiver? Some counties have more, And some seedlings? of course the price is gonna remain high. When its state regulated, companies will be able to grow acres upon acres of fine bud, and the price will be almost nothing because of the huge, and legal supply.

It's all gonna be about supply and demand, just like anything else in the marketplace. And within that supply and demand equation, you also than have to factor in quality. As an example, you can get a bottle of scotch for 5 bucks, you can get some single malt for 35 bucks, and then you can spend upwards of 250 to 300 bucks for a bottle of Johnny Walker Blue Label. Same thing with bottles of wine, or for that matter Tequila.

So yeah, you'll be able to buy herb on the cheap, but if you want the good stuff, it's gonna cost ya.....So here's what I think is gonna happen. MJ that's cheap now is gonna get a lot cheaper, but the good stuff is gonna go up in price, and the mids are gonna stay where they are......and being that for me, I feel that if I'm gonna partake, I want the best that's available, the price WILL go up, and that's not even considering the tax that is going to be levied. (of course, I could be totally off base here, but I don't think so.)

 

[Acolyte of Zinglon]

youre forgetting to factor in how easy it is to produce good bud compared to say a fine wine, and theres always the option of growing for yourself, which this bill allows for, its certainly what id want to do

also the medical patients would be exempt from the taxes, price for medical bud would go way down as well

 

[stickstones]

It's all gonna be about supply and demand, just like anything else in the marketplace. And within that supply and demand equation, you also than have to factor in quality. As an example, you can get a bottle of scotch for 5 bucks, you can get some single malt for 35 bucks, and then you can spend upwards of 250 to 300 bucks for a bottle of Johnny Walker Blue Label. Same thing with bottles of wine, or for that matter Tequila.

So yeah, you'll be able to buy herb on the cheap, but if you want the good stuff, it's gonna cost ya.....So here's what I think is gonna happen. MJ that's cheap now is gonna get a lot cheaper, but the good stuff is gonna go up in price, and the mids are gonna stay where they are......and being that for me, I feel that if I'm gonna partake, I want the best that's available, the price WILL go up, and that's not even considering the tax that is going to be levied. (of course, I could be totally off base here, but I don't think so.)

I disagree some here. I love the vision of being able to go into a bud store and get any quality of herb you want. But as AoZ mentioned, the difference in price in a liquor store is directly related to the costs to produce. All those twelve year malts, seven year whiskeys, and 100% agave's rack up a bill because they take so long to produce.

From a production standpoint, the only increases in costs would be in grow setups (which may even go down since so much more production could go on in the good old outdoors) and in strain creation. This is where people could make money...proprietary strains. But we don't need to reinvent the wheel here...it's already going on in Amsterdam and we can look to them for what would probably happen here.

What are prices like in Amsterdam?

 

[lwien]

What are prices like in Amsterdam?

Prices seem kinda high, if this report is correct.........:

http://www.experienceamsterdam.com/ADAMHPQ.html

 

[Beezleb]

Amsterdam is tourist prices, go outside the tourist spots and you can get stuff cheaper. But then again its been years since I been to Holland.

 

[stickstones]

thanks for the link, lwien. According to that site, mj cost in USD:

Low -- $270 per oz
Mid - $630 per oz
Hi - $1,283 per oz

Those prices are sky high! I get regs here for $100 per oz, and crippy for $400 per oz. I must assume that my regs aren't even available as an option in the coffee shops of Amsterdam, and I'm sure I can't even get quality bud here like the Hi quality in Amsterdam.

So...lots more money and probably lots more quality. And making it legal to posses and buy doesn't mean I can grow it for myself...but that would be mice!

 

[illadelph]

ah i can imagine a world where medical MJ is covered by health insurance.

 

[lwien]

So...lots more money and probably lots more quality.

Yup, that was my point in a few posts above.

It really all has to do with demand and what the market will bear and very little to do with actual production costs.

Here's another link for ya: http://www.gadling.com/2008/04/05/new-york-cigarettes-to-cost-9-a-pack-in-kazkhstan-the-price/

How much do ya think it costs to produce a package of cigarettes? I remember when cigarettes were 25 cents a pack, and although that was MANY years ago, I have no doubt that at 25 cents a pack, it was still VERY profitable. As a matter of fact, it wouldn't surprise me if that was the production costs of a pack today.

 

[stickstones]

good and funny article on gadling, lwien! I wonder how much it is worth to me to have my habit be decriminalized? If it's decriminalized and I can no longer afford it, then I lose!