A Guide to 'Healthy' Vaping: a consideration of the entire process
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Shadooz
Well-Known Member
Yes i did,Did you read the study you posted? It was found in 94% of the EVALI subjects....
And u took an introduction in the discussion part, where he puts other statements find in another study, the [38],[39] ..
Mine can go further
"
All our cases vaped a combination
of CBD and THC, except case 7, who only vaped THC.
However, on further question, our cases and information
from local dispensaries, we found terpenoids are added to the
CBD/THC extract to enhance the flavor, solvent properties,
and to attain the synergistic effect. Whether the noted respi-
ratory failure in our cases is secondary CBD/THC, or terpene
or solvent impurities and additional ingredients present in
the cartridge is yet to be determined"
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Siebter
Less soul, more mind
@Shadooz – the culprit of those symptoms is neither the substance we are aiming for nor the application, but cutting agents. While the study you quote is more recent, it doesn't say the cases are.
No, not any kind of oil. Long-chained fats are a problem because they can not be absorbed by our lungs, see said cutting agents like vitamin-e-acetate. You do inhale oils even when vaping flower.
No, not any kind of oil. Long-chained fats are a problem because they can not be absorbed by our lungs, see said cutting agents like vitamin-e-acetate. You do inhale oils even when vaping flower.
Truth Seeker
Well-Known Member
yes I understand that but it's not isolated chemistry when flower vaping. That's a HUGE difference to me....night/day difference
florduh
Well-Known Member
Not if you're talking about the study you posted. That was a study published in 2020 about the 2019 EVALI crisis. 2021 is almost over, and to the best of my knowledge, there hasn't been a single case reported this year.
Yes, back then there were stories about people getting sick from carts bought at dispensaries. But there were/are plenty of grey market, unregulated dispensaries even in Cali.
During the 2019 EVALI crisis, there were 2,700 cases. I can tell you, based on the number of carts I saw being used in Cali, and even now in FL, if tainted cartridges were as widespread as the media made it out to be, there would be dead bodies stacked in the streets. Not just 2,700 cases spread over a year and a half.
I don't know if a definitive single cause was ever discovered. It looks like black and grey market producers were using cheap C-cell knockoffs with mystery metals, and cutting carts with all kinds of nonsense. None of this applies to high quality oil, put in high quality carts, made by reputable extractors.
Dude, if you buy flower from dealers or shady grey market dispos, you're running the same risk.
Did y'all stop eating lettuce because there was an e-coli outbreak at some point, years in the past?
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Shadooz
Well-Known Member
We don't have dispensaries here, and even less cartridge except e-liquid.
Legalisation without regulation and tracability lead to those risk.
It was to to bump on @invertedisdead word "safety confidence" about dab,.. when it's always on thin line talking about oil inhalation with "breaking bad" fan chemist and DIY tools..
I can hardly trust flower, so concentrate..
If you read what I wrote it was referring to the materials safety of a quartz nail.
It’s always an oil inhalation whether you dab, vape, or smoke it. Especially when smoking as the entire plant is coated in long chain epicuticular wax lipids.
It’s always an oil inhalation whether you dab, vape, or smoke it. Especially when smoking as the entire plant is coated in long chain epicuticular wax lipids.
florduh
Well-Known Member
Speaking of breaking bad bathtub chemistry, I bet cart usage went UP after the 2019 EVALI crisis. Why? 2020 is when Delta-8 carts got really popular. Totally unregulated, and often the result of bathtub chemical reactions. Yet, EVALI cases have dropped to virtually zero. Why? My guess is even the shadiest sellers have stopped using the most dangerous cuts.
I'll put it this way. I'm as confident buying hash rosin or hash rosin carts from my local licensed medical dispensary as I am buying flower from them. Would I prefer to home grow and process my own ice water hash? Absolutely. Just not feasible right now, so I roll the dice at the dispo.
Robert-in-YEG
Well-Known Member
Did you read the study you posted? It was found in 94% of the EVALI subjects....
This appears to be related to vaping a liquid. How does this apply to vaping dry flowers?
There are always unknowns. What chemicals were used when grown? Is the cannabis safe? It is easy to add more. Without question there is some risk.
For me, I smoked cannabis for as long as I can remember. Eating or smoking were the only two means of consumption up until I discovered vaping dry herb. Instead of smoke I am inhaling the terpenes, THC, CBD and whatever else is in the flower. Is that risk bigger or smaller than smoking cannabis? I would like to know the answer to that question, but I'm not going to change my behaviour between now and then. Being reasonably informed and educated, I make a decision, and I let it go.
Every person is different. For me it is the risk of cannabis versus the risk of benzodiazepines. Given my age, given that I have used benzodiazepines in the past (and weaned off after age 50), and given where I am right now, cannabis is the lesser risk. This is not a decision I would make without medical advice. When it is medical, I encourage everyone, seek medical advice.
The greater risk, again for me, is obsessively using cannabis for recreational purposes as opposed to medicinal purposes. Too much recreation, is at odds with recreational use.
We all have bits of advice we remember. My dad was big on 'moderation and common sense'; that was a big one for him. I've had lots of friends and fatherly figures that have offered the same advice. I've also had many different medical professionals speak of the same thing. So, appeal to authority, or whatever, that is my argument and how I made my decision.
In posts I will often joke about 'moderation and common sense', but truthfully, it is an idea that I need to remember every day.
Robert-in-YEG
Shadooz
Well-Known Member
@invertedisdead @florduh
Your ridiculous, and false, argumentations against the study i post, is just a shame for cannabis...
2020 being "outdated"..? We're talking about medical studies, not one of your tweet...
And That community following dumbness, because it comforts their choices, it's saddening..
The study i post was never about E acetate only. which have make buzz in 2019, yes, due to its fulgurance which lead to short deaths.
Cartridge came from regulated stores (or "dispensaries")
But I even put the words written in it, and u kept the same argumentation line...
Hope u're not representative of how american "Ivy league" debate.
Homo "communicantis" tools, what a disgrace.
Play with your cartridges, sheeps, or gooses ?
There is more silent than acetate E.
i let u enjoy some (some i've even already written)
As a light anxiolytic and anti-inflamatory, as those illusions, it's never medical to want to fully hiding pain.
And Even for real "medical" purpose, obsessive takes are counter productives. Vaporizers can't sustain the need of medical ammount.
Your ridiculous, and false, argumentations against the study i post, is just a shame for cannabis...
2020 being "outdated"..? We're talking about medical studies, not one of your tweet...
And That community following dumbness, because it comforts their choices, it's saddening..
The study i post was never about E acetate only. which have make buzz in 2019, yes, due to its fulgurance which lead to short deaths.
Cartridge came from regulated stores (or "dispensaries")
But I even put the words written in it, and u kept the same argumentation line...
Hope u're not representative of how american "Ivy league" debate.
Homo "communicantis" tools, what a disgrace.
Play with your cartridges, sheeps, or gooses ?
There is more silent than acetate E.
i let u enjoy some (some i've even already written)
The greatest risk is the fake use as "medical", or as exess of Confidence.
As a light anxiolytic and anti-inflamatory, as those illusions, it's never medical to want to fully hiding pain.
And Even for real "medical" purpose, obsessive takes are counter productives. Vaporizers can't sustain the need of medical ammount.
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Abysmal Vapor
Supersniffer 2000 - robot fart detection device
@invertedisdead People had inform themselves more about Pavlorian reflexes and habbit forming.
Also Flavour in tobacco has been ruled as one of the main cultprits,nicotine is not even second in that chart. I have read about studies giving people unflavoured cigs and they kick the habbit soon. Thing is that very few people like changes ,we do the same routines over and over and suddenly we decide to stop for whatever reasons and we wonder why do we still crave to go back to our old doings..
So is flavour in our favorite herb addictive,for majority of us most probably yes,but so is the addiction to your favorite candy flavour.
When people try to argue on such subject they speak mainly of their personal experience which is not scientificly or psychologicly evaluated.
As for oils covering lungs and the tissue test. Good thing our lungs are not made of paper, they are covered with liquids ,which get in and out of it with every breath. I suggest people try to blow vapor on a wet tissue ,maybe even covered with your saliva and see if vapor sticks to it. Vapor only condenses because people are using the dry napkin as a filter ,which mesh size is probably four or five digits.
I would be more worried about hand/skin oils when you touch your material rather than the oils inside. Because most of the oils when overheated they become toxic and some overheat pretty easy at vaping temps.
@Siebter is on the point that smoking is actually dirty vaping. It is hilarious when people think that smoke is some kind of magical aether kicked around by science to be more harmful than it is .
I not really into fried foods and bbq so i cant speak from experience but people inhale ton of shit while beeing around it(especially those having that as a proffesion), i bet that is 100 times more harmful then what we are having here. If you like you can read about vitamin E content of various animal foods and oils used for frying.
If anyone is curious about how wrong people can be about the harm of smoking :
There is documentary on Indonesia and the Tobacco epidemic, there are basicly clinics that heal with tobacco smoke, for example if you have eye problems the doctor is pulling off 4 cigs at one and blows the smoke onto it . That is on par with the right to intravenous bleach treatment in some parts of Latin America .(also a vice doccu).
Also Flavour in tobacco has been ruled as one of the main cultprits,nicotine is not even second in that chart. I have read about studies giving people unflavoured cigs and they kick the habbit soon. Thing is that very few people like changes ,we do the same routines over and over and suddenly we decide to stop for whatever reasons and we wonder why do we still crave to go back to our old doings..
So is flavour in our favorite herb addictive,for majority of us most probably yes,but so is the addiction to your favorite candy flavour.
When people try to argue on such subject they speak mainly of their personal experience which is not scientificly or psychologicly evaluated.
As for oils covering lungs and the tissue test. Good thing our lungs are not made of paper, they are covered with liquids ,which get in and out of it with every breath. I suggest people try to blow vapor on a wet tissue ,maybe even covered with your saliva and see if vapor sticks to it. Vapor only condenses because people are using the dry napkin as a filter ,which mesh size is probably four or five digits.
I would be more worried about hand/skin oils when you touch your material rather than the oils inside. Because most of the oils when overheated they become toxic and some overheat pretty easy at vaping temps.
@Siebter is on the point that smoking is actually dirty vaping. It is hilarious when people think that smoke is some kind of magical aether kicked around by science to be more harmful than it is .
I not really into fried foods and bbq so i cant speak from experience but people inhale ton of shit while beeing around it(especially those having that as a proffesion), i bet that is 100 times more harmful then what we are having here. If you like you can read about vitamin E content of various animal foods and oils used for frying.
If anyone is curious about how wrong people can be about the harm of smoking :
There is documentary on Indonesia and the Tobacco epidemic, there are basicly clinics that heal with tobacco smoke, for example if you have eye problems the doctor is pulling off 4 cigs at one and blows the smoke onto it . That is on par with the right to intravenous bleach treatment in some parts of Latin America .(also a vice doccu).
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Shadooz
Well-Known Member
Mucus needs time to build up.
and not getting in and out at every breath, except with fatty(?) Cough.
Everyone isn't equal (ex:cystic fibrosis, asthma), old smokers have mucus reduction and localized dryness..
They have higher risk of bronchectasis.
Hide me if u can (
i know u can) i'm only ugly for the uglies
Abysmal Vapor
Supersniffer 2000 - robot fart detection device
I totally agree with you about moderationMucus needs time to build up.
and not getting in and out at every breath, except with fatty(?) Cough.
Everyone isn't equal (ex:cystic fibrosis, asthma), old smokers have mucus reduction and localized dryness..
They have higher risk of bronchectasis.
Hide me if u can (
. Overdoing anything results in poor health outcome ,that is for sure 
.Good thing the abuse potencial of our herb is pretty low compared to Cheese burgers.It is an obscure secret of the universe but there is a right and wrong way of doing everything.
I have a funny friend who does extended fasting and abstains for certain foods only waiting for his set time on the challenge to end so he can finally find comfort with Mac and cheese... He needs rather to solve this issue psychologicly rather then going cold turkey on bad food.
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Shadooz
Well-Known Member
No, u can't say it's low.
Addiction is mostly the first argumentation for prohibition.
Yes it didn't have radical withdrowal, but its vicious circle speeds up fast.
Even more for people only seeking THC rush, "get kicked". What play the most with ur agmydala, and so addiction.
Who gonna end up, without knowing, seeking acidosis which is a part of the "kick".
Anyway, I enjoy more the hoovering than the skyrocketing.
Im not sure what’s ridiculous or false about me citing passages directly from said study?
If you read the study their conclusion had nothing to do with cartridges, but instead specifically states vaping cannabis oil can lead to respiratory failure.
Do you agree that all cannabis oils come from flower?
That’s such CLASSIC FC to poo poo concentrates and vaping oils - and then assert that concentrating the exact same heated oils in a dry herb vaporizer is somehow more pure and holy
So many long time members who never come here anymore because of posts like this. Can’t even talk about rosin on a vape forum, hilarious.
IDK how you can accept that olive oil is okay but pressed rosin is “breaking bad“
And yes medically speaking the lungs are designed to inhale air and never ever any hot oils or vapors! I’m sure that would make for a vibrant discussion on a vape forum.
This thread is ripe with herbal existentialism... I love it!
Shadooz
Well-Known Member
I never said, claim or argue the opposite,..
and your memory loss about some of the discussion we already had, won't gonna play in your favor.
Acidosis leads to memory loss..
I don't dab.
And my olive oil was homemade, for edibles..
U made an apology of rosin dabbing, i cite :
"The beauty of rosin"
That's how i've start dicussion here...
Then, as many here, u just try to digress cause u can't really argue.
That's the reason many stop posting here
florduh
Well-Known Member
Dude, you claimed you had data about EVALI cases in 2021. When I clicked on the study, it turned out it was published in 2020 and contained cases from 2019. I can't find any evidence of EVALI still being a thing in 2021.
Like I said, there are many unregulated dispensaries. And delivery services. They sell grey market products. Also at least two of the cases in the study you posted mentioned "CBD/THC carts". For all I know, these were "CBD Dispensaries". They could have easily bought unregulated Delta-8 THC carts.
What I do know is there is zero evidence any cart I would recommend, from high quality extractors, ever made anyone sick.
Is it possible for oils to leech heavy metals from carts? Maybe. But States like Cali regularly test for heavy metal contamination. There are plenty of metal carts that don't contain any toxic metals. Personally, I prefer all ceramic or all glass carts where the oil is in contact with no metal.
@Shadooz If you don't like carts, that's fine. But you're evaluating these studies like a clickbait journalist. This is the kind of shit that lead to the vape mail ban. Making sweeping generalizations based on inconclusive evidence.
I vaped Live Rosin and Live Resin carts all through the 2019-2020 EVALI crisis. Got a chest x-ray this year. Squeaky clean.
Shadooz
Well-Known Member
Never claim that, again a digress, pathetic !
I bring a 2020 study to break your wrong "over" confidence.
VALI keeps poping up, not anymore about acetate E..
And i said 2021 data, because there was other new study next to the 2020 i've put..
Antinomic now..
With Medical expertise, none here have !
U bring me down to low grade conversation, i will let u in darkness.
shredder
Well-Known Member
That " modern device" vape sure didn't put out much vapor.
Truth Seeker
Well-Known Member
From a vibrational perspective while trippin on an edible listening to Natalie singing "unforgettable" can I ask that we be kind to one another here? My good pal @invertedisdead has always been more than generous with his time and expertise here with me and many others.
Let's keep things civil my fellow home slices!
Let's keep things civil my fellow home slices!
Shadooz
Well-Known Member
His enthusiasm was, right.
but he end up showing some psychological affect of cannabis, the Denial.
Or he is just part of the "ugly" in that business ?...
You will always be the bad guy when the wrong person tells your story. - Random
8,631 points • 172 comments
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florduh
Well-Known Member
Maybe I just misunderstood what you were trying to say. If so, I apologize. This is what lead me to believe you were referring to cases of EVALI in 2021:
From the information I can find online, EVALI was a thing from 2019 to January of 2020. Have you found any evidence of EVALI in 2021? If not, why do you suppose that is? Carts were popular for years before 2019. They're popular now. Yet the wave of hospitalizations only occurred between 2019-2020. To me, this suggests there was something toxic added to a small percentage of carts during a limited time period.
Unregulated, grey market dispensaries often carry unregulated grey market products that aren't tested. That's what makes those shops "grey market". I lived in LA in 2019. There were shit tons of these. I would only suggest buying carts made by reputable extractors from legal dispensaries. Or make them yourself.
Here's a map of the EVALI crisis from the CDC:
It's a little weird that they conflate deaths with cases. But even so, less than 200 in Cali? Cali is one of the biggest cannabis markets on earth. Carts are one of the biggest sellers in dispos. If ALL carts were pumping out deadly steam, there would be way more than 200 cases. Also kind of odd that EVALI almost totally skipped Colorado.