A Guide to 'Healthy' Vaping: a consideration of the entire process

MSTRVPR

Member
The purpose of this write up is to provide those interested in a health-conscious approach to Cannabis vaporisation with a few pointers that would have possibly taken a longer time of research and engagement to become aware of.

Topics discussed:
  • Pure Cannabis to avoid chemicals and carcinogens.
  • Appropriate Storage to avoid mould and loss of potency and flavour.
  • Safe Processing to avoid contamination and inefficiency.
  • Mindful Dosing to avoid loss of efficacy and unnecessary volume.
  • Clean Vaporisation to avoid contamination and airway irritation.
I will post some of my personal choices in a subsequent reply to provide a starting point for research for newcomers.


Pure Cannabis
It all begins with sourcing the best possible plant material based on the best information available. Unscrupulous chemical contamination through immoral and profit-driven growing practices, and storage and handling contamination without care for our personal safety, can lead to respiratory illnesses and cancer.

The main issue I would like to alert people to is the common black market practice of influencing yields by using plant growth regulators (PGR) like Daminozide, Paclobutrazol, Chlormequat Chloride, and others, which result in mostly unaware consumers taking in confirmed carcinogens, which is known, entirely unacceptable, but by definition completely unregulated and readily practiced. If you have no option but to purchase with black market sources in the supply chain, please google ‘PGR weed’ and learn how to visually recognise and reject it when you inspect your purchase for signs contamination. If you only have access to PGR-laden material, consider whether it would be possible to grow your own in organic soil, otherwise it is in most cases preferable to abstain than to empower cancer. And please tell your friends about this, too many people with many years of experience only learn about PGR only after extended consumption.


Appropriate Storage
Storing under ideal conditions will avoid immediate health risks such as mould, and ideally ensure that your material is kept at ideal humidity levels with minimal deterioration. Perfectly stored material will remain potent and flavourful for longer and vaporise more efficiently, reducing the repeated strain on your airways.

Whether your material arrives in plastic bags, plastic jars, or creative branded packaging, it is best practice to transfer your Cannabis to clean and airtight glass or metal containers, and to store your containers in a dark and cool environment. If you receive material at unregulated or unknown humidity levels, or store any material for more than a few weeks, or frequently open your containers to access material, humidity control packs at an appropriate size for the container will help maintain ideal storage humidity. A relative humidity of 62% can be recommended. This way, you will have a consistent experience and maintain potency for longer, resulting in better extraction, less material, and fewer draws for the desired effects. Avoid plastic storage, exposure to excessive light, major temperature swings, overly dry or humid conditions, contaminations through handling, and google how to visually recognise mould growth.


Safe Processing
Low-grade grinders may look like a cheap and functional solution for a minor task, but aside from offering terrible performance and poor longevity, they are also known to shave off aluminium filings, plastics or treated wood into the material you are inhaling. This is particularly relevant if you consume with a short vapor path and little or no filtration but should of course always be avoided.

Stainless steel through its material properties is generally a favourable material for grinders. There is nothing positive that can be said about cheaply made budget grinders with excessive material contact, so anyone who is genuinely concerned about the materials or wear signs on their grinder but cannot afford to spend on a new stainless steel model, may consider using affordable stainless steel scissors in the meantime. High quality aluminium grinders will show significantly less wear than budged models, but it does still occur and deserves consideration. Additionally, choosing a grinder capable of producing the ideal consistency for the type of vaporiser used has the additional health benefit of avoiding excessive pulling of plant material through the screens and cooling units of the vaporiser, so that there is less risk of inhaling particles. Given the longevity of high-quality grinders, the cost of a grinder will easily amortise over the months and years.


Mindful Dosing
Humans can be very susceptible to cannabinoids if an optimal balance of receptors and dosage are sustained. The healthy approach to Cannabis involves some knowledge about how to get the most benefits in collaboration with one’s endocannabinoid system. Required dosage is of course based on individual symptomatic relief needs, but the principles at work to find the ideal dose are shared across our bodies.

Many people overuse and fall into a spiral of receptor down-regulation leading to higher tolerance, subsequent increased use and strain on the airways (and wallet), all with diminishing desired effects – this can negatively affect the body and quality of life. Whilst it is common for people to seek stronger immediate symptomatic relief, a psychological escape, or absentmindedly consume whilst performing other activities without any specific attention placed on Cannabis, a healthy relationship with Cannabis may begin with the instant resolution to get the best possible overall benefits out of the plant, which necessitates a long-term view rather than a short-term approach guided by prior habit conditioning and cravings. An optimal therapeutic dose is simply a stable, sustainable dose that affords the most benefit to your health. Since overusing Cannabis leads to a reduction of available receptors, increasing consumption is leading to decreasing overall benefits and duration of relief and mental function. Since this is somewhat counterintuitive for most who tend to up-regulate use in pursuit of the desired effects, it is most powerful to perform a simple experiment to then act from experiential conviction. Depending on your current use, reset your tolerance by abstaining for at least 2-7 days (to quickly regain some of your dulled receptivity to cannabinoids), then spend another 2-3 days under strict moderation, where you stop consuming immediately as soon as you notice any minute perceptible effects (to gently stimulate increasing receptor availability without overloading your system as before). After this period, and with the same attention to how your perception changes as you vaporise, conservatively work up to a dose that feels great – and do not routinely exceed it. In just 4-10 days, your endocannabinoid system will have recovered enough of its functioning to present you with more enjoyable and longer lasting effects from significantly less material. Maintaining ideal sensitivity to the compounds is the gateway to ideal benefits.


Clean Vaporisation
Nothing stops people from designing a vaporizer with seriously flawed material choices by commissioning a factory with low standards to assemble existing parts into a device that has a sleek shell, is well packaged and marketed, and produces clouds on YouTube. Consumers often falsely assume that companies embark on specialist R&D under enforced regulations to create safe products. Fact is that many vaporisers could conceivably lead you to inhale harmful compounds every day for years.

When evaluating a vaporizer, at a minimum, consider the air path from the intake to the heating chamber, the heating mechanism, and the vapor path to your lips. As for the air entering the vaporizer leading to the chamber, the path should be clean and completely isolated, only passing over inert materials. If the path is not isolated, air could pass over dirty electronics, manufacturing oils, glue and insulation material that are off gassing in a hot unit, even if the air pulled in is cool, and even if it is an attractive artisan vaporizer. The heating mechanism should ideally be isolated from the ultimate heat source, so that air does not pass over red-hot coils made from inappropriate metals and alloys, and the material does not touch bowl surfaces that may deteriorate and interact under heat over time. The vapor path from the bowl to your mouth should likewise be isolated and made of inert materials, with sufficient cooling and particle filtration to ensure any vapor reaching the mouth is neither too hot, nor too dry, and free of any debris. High quality quartz and borosilicate glass are ideal materials for use in vaporizers and water pieces, as they are non-reactive and easy to assess and clean, offering good cooling properties, unaltered flavor, and no contamination. Next are metals such as high grade titanium and high grade stainless steel, as long as they are operated at suitable temperatures where no by-products of heated alloy components, or fine metal on metal contact shavings, enter into the mix. For any other materials, it is worthwhile confirming and researching any potential risk factors associated with wood treatment, the heat properties of specific plastics and ceramics, surface treatment and plating, flaking, and so on. Whilst we may all have different standards and compromises to consider, the only way to improve the general quality of products on the market is to scrutinise and categorically reject those who have not shown sufficient due diligence. It is advisable to clean your favourite vaporizer frequently, ensuring no chemical cleaning residues remain on any parts. Warm water filtration to remove particles and add humidity to dry vapor are advisable whenever possible.


Safe vaping!
 
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MSTRVPR

Member
Here are my personal recommendations and choices for each category in the OP. Anyone would be hard pressed to claim 100% healthy vaping practices, but what we can do is discuss and make choices that minimise long-term impacts and risks on our respiratory system and overall wellbeing. All of this of course also assumes that the benefits of Cannabis are worth its use for the individual and that vaping is the preferred or most practical method, considering all circumstances.

Pure Cannabis
Growing organically or sourcing from a known and trusted grower when possible, and/or seeing a doctor that specialises in Cannabis to discuss medical use in areas where this is practiced. In many parts of the world, you do not have to suffer from a serious illness to get access. If you know Cannabis helps you but you are not able to ensure a supply of risk-free material or would have to rely on alternative pharma drugs with their known side effects, many doctors will help you, even if it just to help you get to sleep at night. Many people do not know this is already possible where they live, think they would not be eligible, and thus never take the easy step of making an appointment to explore this avenue and to ideally secure a legal supply of safe Cannabis.

Appropriate Storage
I transfer my material with minimal handling to sealed stainless steel CVaults with 62% two-way humidity regulator packs, either Boveda or Integra Boost, for long-term storage. I store small amounts of pre-ground material in sealed glass jars for ease of access and to open humidity-controlled containers less frequently. For a portable solution, I use small pocket-sized Kannastor pucks, for which I am content with well-machined aluminium and external threads. Whilst there are many suitable storage containers with tight seals for bulk home storage, I chose the CVault because its design allows for the insertion of humidity packs under the lid and away from the material.

Safe Processing
I use a stainless steel Flower Mill as most of the crumbling of material occurs with the herbs compressed between a contoured plate and a disc with holes that filters through sufficiently small pieces. With a bit of feeling, the Flower Mill can be used with no or very little contact between the two stainless steel components when processing. If you make the choice to retire your high quality aluminium grinder for a stainless model based on these arguments, consider giving your grinder away to someone who is stuck with a poor quality option.

Mindful Dosing
I completely abstain for 1 day every 3 days on average and reset my system through abstaining for 2-3 days once a month prior to attempting to further reduce my daily consumption. I measure out the effective amount per day and consume it as and when I see fit. Whenever I overdo it on certain occasions, which is not a problem, I will simply take a couple of days off to ensure my standard dose remains effective. The purpose is not to live under the unsatisfactory tyranny of some arbitrary measured out amount and to never deviate, it is simply to recognise and derive the optimal benefits with a more encompassing and less compulsive view that spans all aspects of life over years to come.

Clean Vaporisation
At home, I exclusively use all-glass versions of the ELEV8R (quartz heater and borosilicate bowl), without metal screens, in rotation to always have a clean unit at hand. I run the ELEV8R through a borosilicate pre-mix Chamber to elongate and aerate the vapor path, into a borosilicate water piece filled with ca. 50C-60C filtered water to condition and humidify the otherwise dry vapor, and to reduce condensation loss in the process. As a portable, I mostly use a Dynavap titanium Vong tip on a titanium Vortex stem with a low temp camp, which I heat at enough distance not to cause hot spots on the cap. Using the portable without available water filtration, I also raise my tongue to interrupt the straight flow down my throat. I also tend to drink thick gong fu style tea that lubricates the throat and complements well.

I am looking forward to hearing form the FC experts - this community has been a great resource across years of researching various related topics and I am grateful for the level of discernment and discussion here.
 
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Truth Seeker

Well-Known Member
Even in the best of circumstances it's debatable how "healthy" dry herb vaping is especially if throat irritation is common. Somewhere between the terps, ppm, hot air and a few other things make dry herb vaping something to be very cautious about. The few benefits might not outweigh the negatives for many of us. Enjoyed your post!
 
Truth Seeker,
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Polarbearboy

Tokin' Away Since 1968
I find it so weird that folks are seriously paranoid about plastic airpaths which often use top grade food and medical grade plastic when the only medically certified vapes I'm aware of in the entire world--the S-B vapes--have plastic air paths. And those vapes are certified in the EU, which has much more stringent standards than the US. Frankly I think the whole "healthy airpath" discussion is filled with misinformation and foggy science. There is much I agree with in M's thoughtful essays above, but when I read that, his/her/their cred is put into doubt.
 

Robert-in-YEG

Well-Known Member
What about mental health? We talk a lot about health, but usually, it is physical health, not mental health?

is vaping healthier than smoking? I'm going to guess that if you asked 6 different health professionals, you would get 7 different opinions; one those asked would likely give a qualified opinion, just to be safe. From a common sense side, vaping would seem to be healthier than smoking. Where there is fire, there is an uncontrolled release of chemicals, plus carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, and a host of other chemical byproducts of combustion.

We make health decisions every day. Sugar in the tea, a hamburger at McDogstools, salt on the food; everything has a consequence. The point is, why add extra stress with worry? If a person makes a decision to vape, or not vape, the next step is to keep going, and not get stuck worrying about past decisions.

I use cannabis to deal with anxiety and PTSD; having weaned off benzodiazepines, I am not going back.

For me, vaping makes cannabis very convenient. I do not get the euphoric highs, I would get from smoking and eating cannabis, but I don't have the taste of smoke or the lingering smell of smoked cannabis. I never liked smoking, and that regulated my use. Vaping, I enjoy, so it is something that is part of my day.

Last, talk to your doctor. Unsure about the risks of recreational use? Medical use? Occasional sleep aid? Talk to a doctor. If your doctor won't talk, find one that will.

Robert-in-YEG

Take-care-of-your-body.-Its-the-only-place-you-have-to-live..jpg
 

florduh

Well-Known Member
For me, vaping makes cannabis very convenient. I do not get the euphoric highs, I would get from smoking and eating cannabis, but I don't have the taste of smoke or the lingering smell of smoked cannabis.

I was out of town last week. A friend of a friend is a dealer from one of the prohibition States who demanded I try a joint of his "loud". I was on vacation, so I said what the hell. Jesus Christ, how do people smoke joints regularly? It tasted like burnt ass. And this might be because that "loud" was "mids" at best, but it didn't seem to give me better effects than my TinyMight.

The few benefits might not outweigh the negatives for many of us.

That might be, but outside of more established cannabis markets, joint and blunt smoking is very common. Joints are far more irritating than almost any dry herb vape. In Cali, a shit ton of normies vaped on prefilled carts. Plenty of those things have ridiculous terp levels.

I do think the terps are getting too damn high. They taste good, but they're pretty serious solvents and are irritating in high amounts. Even flower seems to be getting terpier.

Frankly I think the whole "healthy airpath" discussion is filled with misinformation and foggy science.

I agree. My guess is stressing over this kind of shit has taken more years off my life than having a little silicone or plastic in my vape's air path ever did.
 

Robert-in-YEG

Well-Known Member
My guess is stressing over this kind of shit has taken more years off my life than having a little silicone or plastic in my vape's air path ever did.
Absolutely. Worry has zero benefits.

Robert-in-YEG

“Worry never robs tomorrow of its sorrow, it only saps today of its joy.”
– Leo F. Buscaglia

“When I look back on all these worries, I remember the story of the old man who said on his deathbed that he had had a lot of trouble in his life, most of which had never happened.”

– Winston Churchill
 

MSTRVPR

Member
I find it so weird that folks are seriously paranoid about plastic airpaths which often use top grade food and medical grade plastic when the only medically certified vapes I'm aware of in the entire world--the S-B vapes--have plastic air paths. And those vapes are certified in the EU, which has much more stringent standards than the US. Frankly I think the whole "healthy airpath" discussion is filled with misinformation and foggy science. There is much I agree with in M's thoughtful essays above, but when I read that, his/her/their cred is put into doubt.
Here is the S&B certification: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Iok2f5j3hztdsyjDC96uXcx3CsTxeUYY/view

You can see that the tested parameters have nothing at all to do with air path safety but relate to the electronics. Yet people repeatedly quote this certification out of context and make health claims. I do not claim that S&B products pose health risks, but it should not be dismissed beyond questioning based on such a misunderstanding.

The point is, why add extra stress with worry?
Worry serves its function as the felt expression of our own concerns. In my opinion, investigating one's 'worry' and acting on the conclusion with the best information available is mentally healthy, by contrast, dismissing concerns so as not to stress oneself through worry is avoidance with disregard of long-term consequences.
 

Truth Seeker

Well-Known Member
Hard to look at the S&B tests and not ask yourself if it's biased since a manufacturer was behind it. I'm in one of those "dry herb vaping is not healthy moods" due to the variety of vapes I've went through and either getting stuck with a throat irritation or a chest irritation. I could make a damn good argument that micro dosing combustion is healthier and daily dry herb vaping but that probably wouldn't fly. There's many, many unknowns to dry herb vaping and to be cautious seems prudent!
 

Polarbearboy

Tokin' Away Since 1968
Maybe its putting resinous herb vapor into your lungs itself, and not the means of putting it there, ie. the vaporizer, that's causing your throat and lung problems.
 

invertedisdead

Weapons of VAS Destruction
Hard to look at the S&B tests and not ask yourself if it's biased since a manufacturer was behind it. I'm in one of those "dry herb vaping is not healthy moods" due to the variety of vapes I've went through and either getting stuck with a throat irritation or a chest irritation. I could make a damn good argument that micro dosing combustion is healthier and daily dry herb vaping but that probably wouldn't fly. There's many, many unknowns to dry herb vaping and to be cautious seems prudent!


IME there are people on here who really want to vape but just can’t make it work. If combustion is truly less irritating for you, why not just roll with it? I know plenty of folks who think vaping is harsher than smoking - granted they’ve never owned a vape or used one exclusively for 30+ days but if you find it much more irritating I don’t see any reason to really keep trying when you’re not that convinced it’s even beneficial.

Are you truly micro dosing or actually doing 15 small bowls a day like many posts I read on here? IME a true micro dose is one inhalation per day.

Can you truly smoke weed as much as you want with zero side effects and only the vape bothers you? IME heavy users will experience issues no matter what. Vaping irritates my throat guaranteed, but so would smoking a bong or a pipe. I reckon that you reading this site means that smoking probably causes you irritation too.

There’s been times where vaping has beat me up and I’ve tried smoking and it actually was smoother - but it’s all temporary - if I was a daily smoker Id be dealing with the same harshness that makes people seek out vaping in the first place.

It does seem like most of your experience has been with session vapes - have you tried more of a one hitter? How do you normally prefer to smoke? I find you need to match the experience as best as possible.
 

Truth Seeker

Well-Known Member
IME there are people on here who really want to vape but just can’t make it work. If combustion is truly less irritating for you, why not just roll with it? I know plenty of folks who think vaping is harsher than smoking - granted they’ve never owned a vape or used one exclusively for 30+ days but if you find it much more irritating I don’t see any reason to really keep trying when you’re not that convinced it’s even beneficial.

Are you truly micro dosing or actually doing 15 small bowls a day like many posts I read on here? IME a true micro dose is one inhalation per day.

Can you truly smoke weed as much as you want with zero side effects and only the vape bothers you? IME heavy users will experience issues no matter what. Vaping irritates my throat guaranteed, but so would smoking a bong or a pipe. I reckon that you reading this site means that smoking probably causes you irritation too.

There’s been times where vaping has beat me up and I’ve tried smoking and it actually was smoother - but it’s all temporary - if I was a daily smoker Id be dealing with the same harshness that makes people seek out vaping in the first place.

It does seem like most of your experience has been with session vapes - have you tried more of a one hitter? How do you normally prefer to smoke? I find you need to match the experience as best as possible.
Vaping seems to be easier on my respiratory system and the lack of carbon monoxide poisoning is a benefit of vaping that I've experienced in a big way. 2-4 tokes of combustion per day is my idea of micro dosing yet this might be too much. Decarb weed eaten does work well for me and is probably by far the best bet. The persistent throat irritation of vaping is my main issue with vaping.

Some serious negatives about vaping is the amount of chemicals used to grow weed these days even if the product is bought at dispensaries and tested via state mandate still allow growers to use chemicals that might not be optimal for vaping flower (HUGE recall in Michigan right now for all product tested within last 3 months from a certain lab (State is not telling us what that issue is that has prompted recalling 24,000 pounds of flower).

Most vaporizers have some kind of crappy parts, solder or whatever (S&B products are basically plastic and the stamp of approval for them being a medical device is a freaking joke IMO -plastic, aluminum etc)

The MFLB is one of the few I actually trust and probably Vapor Bros and Silver Surfer would be good choices since these companies seem very conscious of materials used.

2nd major issue with me is that I KNOW how the body heals after combustion whether long term or short use, LONG term dry herb vape use is a big unknown. Drying out the throat continuosly could have some major issues and we don't know if heated terpenes inhaled is going to be a problem, plus possible chemical inhalation. Even with organic grown the chemical aspect is removed yet breathing in terpenes and the chemical structure of vapor itself is a huge unknown. I've read hear about folks that developed symptoms of wheezing after long term vape use and symptoms of asthma. There's just sooo many unknowns that it seems to me that micro dosing combustion or smoking a J once a week might be the safest thing one can do if they are concerned about the safety of vaping and their health. There's a huge rabbit hole one must go down when weighing out the "healthiness" of vaping. Personally I think the high from combustion is more balanced than the vaping high. There's some type of agitation aspect to the vape high and less of a balance IMO.

I hate to be so negative but let's face it the weed industry is full of charlatans and crooks that can now operate legally with state licenses and when you go to a dispensary they have no idea about the origin of their product and what kind of chemicals were used in growing the product. Walk into a grow store and you'll see the place filled with all kinds of cartons of crazy chemicals. I hate to be so negative but legalization has probably made the product less safe than what was around 30 years ago.
 
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florduh

Well-Known Member
Having moved from smoking both cannabis and cigarettes to vaping cannabis and nicotine, I can't imagine combustion being the healthier option. My throat, and the rest of my body, feels much worse after smoking than vaping. If combustion is less healthy in the short term, I don't somehow see it becoming the healthier option long term.

That having been said, inhaling anything other than air will never be good for you. Luckily, vaping never really hurts my throat or lungs. But I'm still looking into replacing some of my vaping with edibles. I'm imagining taking a small hit to get the party started while I wait for the edible to kick in.

I also tend to think stressing about all of this is more damaging to my health than any vapor. Unless you live in a cabin in the mountains far from civilization, we're all inhaling and eating poison every hour of every day.
 

Truth Seeker

Well-Known Member
Having moved from smoking both cannabis and cigarettes to vaping cannabis and nicotine, I can't imagine combustion being the healthier option. My throat, and the rest of my body, feels much worse after smoking than vaping. If combustion is less healthy in the short term, I don't somehow see it becoming the healthier option long term.

That having been said, inhaling anything other than air will never be good for you. Luckily, vaping never really hurts my throat or lungs. But I'm still looking into replacing some of my vaping with edibles. I'm imagining taking a small hit to get the party started while I wait for the edible to kick in.

I also tend to think stressing about all of this is more damaging to my health than any vapor. Unless you live in a cabin in the mountains far from civilization, we're all inhaling and eating poison every hour of every day.
Vaping nicotine to get off cigs could very well be "life saving" especially for pack a day smokers. To me that's a completely different topic.
Combusting 1X a week or taking 2-4 or let's say 8 tokes or less per day of combustion fora daily user (especially medical) with some breaks will give the body ample time to recover. Maybe vaping 1X a week is better than any combustion! yet how many vape enthusiasts especially here don't have their "daily driver" of choice and such. I'm very open minded and completely unbiased when it comes to what is the safest methodology and protocol for inhalation of any sort for use of cannabis. Unfortunately throat irritation is a serious buzz kill and many times doesn't outweigh some of the benefits for vaping such as carbon monoxide reduction, a few days off from micro combustion the body heals up pretty quick especially if one is doing some sort of light/moderate cardio routine or just going for a good walks. The oxygen depravation that occurs in the blood stream is the main factor that has me continually messing with this stupid hobby of flower vaping! ;)
 

invertedisdead

Weapons of VAS Destruction
The persistent throat irritation of vaping is my main issue with vaping.

I find residence time to be a large cause of vape harshness. Where it takes too long to extract the vapor, resulting in extraneous hot air. Whereas with smoking a bong can be milked and ripped in literally like two seconds.

Vapes which “instantly whitewall” seem to be easier since it’s doing more of the extracting for you.


Some serious negatives about vaping is the amount of chemicals used to grow weed these days even if the product is bought at dispensaries and tested via state mandate still allow growers to use chemicals that might not be optimal for vaping flower (HUGE recall in Michigan right now for all product tested within last 3 months from a certain lab (State is not telling us what that issue is that has prompted recalling 24,000 pounds of flower).

Definitely agree and all the reason to vape rosin or concentrates IMHO. I still love the flavor of a fresh bowl of flower but I see no benefit from a vaporization standpoint to heating up the plant material. I’ve long said if kief / dry sift was more popular I’d never vape flower again. I think there’s a very real particulate issue with ground flower vaping that doesn’t occur with incineration / smoking.


Most vaporizers have some kind of crappy parts, solder or whatever (S&B products are basically plastic and the stamp of approval for them being a medical device is a freaking joke IMO -plastic, aluminum etc)

The MFLB is one of the few I actually trust and probably Vapor Bros and Silver Surfer would be good choices since these companies seem very conscious of materials used.

I’ve probably talked down on aluminum more than anyone on this forum - that said after experimenting with it myself I found it very interesting how it does not oxidize from heat near as much as popular vape materials like SS and Ti. I have to admit I’m a bit torn on aluminum - it’s still highly reactive so anywhere in the vapor stream is probably not ideal - but at the same time at least aluminum doesn’t have all the nickel and chromium like SS does. People talk a lot about aluminum but nickel allergies are more popular while glossing over stainless steel compositions entirely?

As far as S&B plastic, for what it’s worth PEEK is considered not just medical grade but biocompatible for implanting inside the body so it’s not your average “plastic.” But I accept that none of the “science” on most of these materials or practices is anywhere near mature enough to be relied on with any type of certainty.


Even with organic grown the chemical aspect is removed yet breathing in terpenes and the chemical structure of vapor itself is a huge unknown. I've read hear about folks that developed symptoms of wheezing after long term vape use and symptoms of asthma.

For sure that has happened, I’ve questioned it myself where long term vaporists seem extra sensitive - but wheezing after long term combustion use must be far more common. It’s a well known and documented side effect of smoking. The fact people have it happen while “vaping” is interesting but we should also look at how some of these vapes are being used -
I constantly read of combustion incidents on here with advanced temperature controlled vapes, which tells me people are really “pushing the limits” these days. If you really pay attention you’ll notice that the more a device forces you to vape at a nominal temperature range, the less popular it seems to do here on Fuck Combustion.




There's just sooo many unknowns that it seems to me that micro dosing combustion or smoking a J once a week might be the safest thing one can do if they are concerned about the safety of vaping and their health.

But does vaping one bowl a week bother anyone more than smoking one doobie a week? Seems like the issue isn’t smoking or vaping - but hedonism? As a heavier user I’ve not been shy in admitting my harshness problems from vaping, but if I only did it once a day, or once a week, I doubt it would be an issue. IME as a “desktop guy” you can vape until the vape stops working and that’s where the harshness comes from. It’s a vicious circle - the person that vapes once a day or once a week has such a low tolerance that they don’t have to keep huffing on puff and never even experience much harshness.

I find the folks that truly have a low tolerance can’t even tell the difference between a distillate pen and the good stuff. Like Sulak says the person who just takes one drag off the joint as in goes around usually gets the most wholesome effects.
 

florduh

Well-Known Member
Definitely agree and all the reason to vape rosin or concentrates IMHO.

Whenever I hear someone say they want the effects of vaping flower without the drawbacks, my advice is "take two hits of hash rosin and call me in the morning". But hash rosin does have a lot of terps. Subjectively, it still seems smoother on my throat/lungs than similarly terped BHO. But it's still pretty terpy.

I wonder if your decarbing hash rosin for cart use tek might apply here? The decarb process will knock down the terp percentage a few points. And the cartridge format is excellent for microdosing.
 

Truth Seeker

Well-Known Member
I find residence time to be a large cause of vape harshness. Where it takes too long to extract the vapor, resulting in extraneous hot air. Whereas with smoking a bong can be milked and ripped in literally like two seconds.

Vapes which “instantly whitewall” seem to be easier since it’s doing more of the extracting for you.




Definitely agree and all the reason to vape rosin or concentrates IMHO. I still love the flavor of a fresh bowl of flower but I see no benefit from a vaporization standpoint to heating up the plant material. I’ve long said if kief / dry sift was more popular I’d never vape flower again. I think there’s a very real particulate issue with ground flower vaping that doesn’t occur with incineration / smoking.




I’ve probably talked down on aluminum more than anyone on this forum - that said after experimenting with it myself I found it very interesting how it does not oxidize from heat near as much as popular vape materials like SS and Ti. I have to admit I’m a bit torn on aluminum - it’s still highly reactive so anywhere in the vapor stream is probably not ideal - but at the same time at least aluminum doesn’t have all the nickel and chromium like SS does. People talk a lot about aluminum but nickel allergies are more popular while glossing over stainless steel compositions entirely?

As far as S&B plastic, for what it’s worth PEEK is considered not just medical grade but biocompatible for implanting inside the body so it’s not your average “plastic.” But I accept that none of the “science” on most of these materials or practices is anywhere near mature enough to be relied on with any type of certainty.




For sure that has happened, I’ve questioned it myself where long term vaporists seem extra sensitive - but wheezing after long term combustion use must be far more common. It’s a well known and documented side effect of smoking. The fact people have it happen while “vaping” is interesting but we should also look at how some of these vapes are being used -
I constantly read of combustion incidents on here with advanced temperature controlled vapes, which tells me people are really “pushing the limits” these days. If you really pay attention you’ll notice that the more a device forces you to vape at a nominal temperature range, the less popular it seems to do here on Fuck Combustion.






But does vaping one bowl a week bother anyone more than smoking one doobie a week? Seems like the issue isn’t smoking or vaping - but hedonism? As a heavier user I’ve not been shy in admitting my harshness problems from vaping, but if I only did it once a day, or once a week, I doubt it would be an issue. IME as a “desktop guy” you can vape until the vape stops working and that’s where the harshness comes from. It’s a vicious circle - the person that vapes once a day or once a week has such a low tolerance that they don’t have to keep huffing on puff and never even experience much harshness.

I find the folks that truly have a low tolerance can’t even tell the difference between a distillate pen and the good stuff. Like Sulak says the person who just takes one drag off the joint as in goes around usually gets the most wholesome effects.
Totally agree brother 100% I always respect your opinion and expertise and generosity in sharing! Maybe I should go the rosin route it's just so messy and I don't want a rig or e nail or quartz banger or any of that type of stuff. Plus when I tasted Rosin it seemed a bit funky of a taste and I was kinda turned off by it.
 

Truth Seeker

Well-Known Member
Whenever I hear someone say they want the effects of vaping flower without the drawbacks, my advice is "take two hits of hash rosin and call me in the morning". But hash rosin does have a lot of terps. Subjectively, it still seems smoother on my throat/lungs than similarly terped BHO. But it's still pretty terpy.

I wonder if your decarbing hash rosin for cart use tek might apply here? The decarb process will knock down the terp percentage a few points. And the cartridge format is excellent for microdosing.
The cartridge thing is still a cheap battery pen and there is no such thing as a quality pen with no solder or any other cheap materials......I've gave it a go a few times and just end up throwing it in the trash.
 
Truth Seeker,
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florduh

Well-Known Member
The cartridge thing is still a cheap battery pen and there is no such thing as a quality pen with no solder or any other cheap materials......I've gave it a go a few times and just end up throwing it in the trash.

This is outdated information, at least if you're talking about the carts themselves. Here's an example of a cart where the oil is only in contact with glass and ceramic.


If you're talking about the batteries, I don't believe any solder could be in the vapor path on something like the Uni Pro.

I've had live rosin carts in all ceramic carts. At low voltages it tastes like a low temp dab.
 

invertedisdead

Weapons of VAS Destruction
Whenever I hear someone say they want the effects of vaping flower without the drawbacks, my advice is "take two hits of hash rosin and call me in the morning". But hash rosin does have a lot of terps. Subjectively, it still seems smoother on my throat/lungs than similarly terped BHO. But it's still pretty terpy.

I wonder if your decarbing hash rosin for cart use tek might apply here? The decarb process will knock down the terp percentage a few points. And the cartridge format is excellent for microdosing.

Rosin can definitely be terpy, but at least with hash rosin you're limited to the terpenes in the actual trichome glands being expressed so the ratios are way closer to flower.
Whereas with BHO you're chemically extracting the terpenes from all those other smaller gland heads which can throw off the balance more and skew the ratios.

Decarbing seems to smooth things out by decreasing the latent energy needed to vaporize since the cannabinoids have already undergone conversion. I noticed cartridges seem smoother to me than vaping the raw extract in a load-as-you-go device?

Also, you're not inhaling that co2 from the decarboxylation reaction during inhalation like you do when doing other methods. Maybe that matters?

Totally agree brother 100% I always respect your opinion and expertise and generosity in sharing! Maybe I should go the rosin route it's just so messy and I don't want a rig or e nail or quartz banger or any of that type of stuff. Plus when I tasted Rosin it seemed a bit funky of a taste and I was kinda turned off by it.

No problem dude!
I find rosin pretty easy to work with, more messy to grind herb to me.
The beauty of rosin is if you're truly concerned about the materials in other vapes, rosin eliminates that easily. Its the easiest and most affordable way to get an all glass path and materials safety confidence.

I honestly wouldn't know how to alleviate your materials concerns while also avoiding rigs or quartz though. Purity vs convenience I suppose?
As far as tasting funky - I mean, a lot of cannabis has a very funky flavor - GMO, White Widow, Cat Piss, Chem Dawg, Blue Cheese, etc. so it's hard to say. Even Tangie can taste like super glue!

When you smoke a doobie or bowl do you not taste any funky flavors? If you put your mouth on a used pipe or bong and inhale, without lighting anything, does it taste clean or funky?
 

Robert-in-YEG

Well-Known Member
There has been talk of a bong, but was that with combustion?

I've been using my Solo II with a water pipe adapter. Through the bong, the vapor is cool, smooth, and moist.

Robert-in-YEG

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Truth Seeker

Well-Known Member
Rosin can definitely be terpy, but at least with hash rosin you're limited to the terpenes in the actual trichome glands being expressed so the ratios are way closer to flower.
Whereas with BHO you're chemically extracting the terpenes from all those other smaller gland heads which can throw off the balance more and skew the ratios.

Decarbing seems to smooth things out by decreasing the latent energy needed to vaporize since the cannabinoids have already undergone conversion. I noticed cartridges seem smoother to me than vaping the raw extract in a load-as-you-go device?

Also, you're not inhaling that co2 from the decarboxylation reaction during inhalation like you do when doing other methods. Maybe that matters?



No problem dude!
I find rosin pretty easy to work with, more messy to grind herb to me.
The beauty of rosin is if you're truly concerned about the materials in other vapes, rosin eliminates that easily. Its the easiest and most affordable way to get an all glass path and materials safety confidence.

I honestly wouldn't know how to alleviate your materials concerns while also avoiding rigs or quartz though. Purity vs convenience I suppose?
As far as tasting funky - I mean, a lot of cannabis has a very funky flavor - GMO, White Widow, Cat Piss, Chem Dawg, Blue Cheese, etc. so it's hard to say. Even Tangie can taste like super glue!

When you smoke a doobie or bowl do you not taste any funky flavors? If you put your mouth on a used pipe or bong and inhale, without lighting anything, does it taste clean or funky?
Yea brother your right as usual! I'm just in an anti vape mood from having a sore throat that might be a combo of vaping (maybe not) and possibly talking too much (probably the case as I've been on the horn about 3 hours a day raising my voice to be heard) ;)

Decarb weed chewed raw and ice coffee with a dash of 1/2-1/2 is my current set up! ;)

I'm convinced THC is an irritant as I kinda get a tickle in my throat even eating it yet it could be psychosomatic from thinking about vaping! lol
 
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