18650 Battery Safety

[RustyOldNail]

The SKYRC MC3000 looks amazing but is really more than I need and much more expensive than the XTAR VC4. I've come across one other charger that seems to have good specs--the EverActive UC4000. Has anybody used it or am I'm better off getting an XTAR?

While they are all made in China, stick to a “NAME” brand....

 

[KeroZen]

The only reason I mentioned that they ship with 70% capacity is that I read it's for safety reasons.

No they ship them with the voltage they chose to store them at. Since they don't know for how long they'll sit in their inventory. Some shops don''t even bother to top them up to storage level and send them like they received them from the factory.

Would it make sense to only charge them up to 70% at home for this reason? I read somewhere that it's best to keep phone batteries between 60-80% full and never fully charge them but don't know if this applies to 18650 batteries too.

The recommendation for extended service life is 80-90% (or at least cutting at 4.1V max instead of 4.2V) but 60% is overkill, you'd get a poor capacity and it's even possible that it would offset the gains because you would have such short charge/discharge cycles that you would need a lot more of them (because cycle count is also a parameter for cell aging)

I can understand the practice for a non replaceable battery inside a pricey device like a phone, or even maybe for high-end large RC model / drone batteries, but those 18650 are like $5 a pop...

According to the specs for the Samsung 26 JM 2600 battery mAH, the nominal voltage is only 3.63V and most batteries seem to be around 3.7V too. Isn't charging them up to 4.2 volts a bit too much for most of them--sorry if I'm missing something here...

The nominal voltage varies depending on the exact Li-Ion chemistry, 3.6 or 3.7V for most of the ones you should be concerned with for our particular application (but some special chemistries sold as "high voltage" usually can be charged up to 4.4V for some and those have a higher nominal voltage around 3.8V)

But it's just a figure used for computations. Like your AA cells have a nominal voltage of 1.5V but if you measure them when new you'll see a higher voltage above 1.6V. It's a convenience to know the average voltage at mid charge when you put cells in series but it's in no way an indication of the charge cutoff voltage you should use.

One last thing about batteries. I've noticed that some come with steel plates on top or maybe "solder caps" is the correct technical name for them. Do most vendors simply remove them to sell individual cells or are some of the 18650s manufactured without these caps in the first place?

You should not buy refurbished cells extracted from God knows what kind of power tool or laptop packs. New cells should have no soldered tabs. Maybe some vendors presolder tabs for specific applications (but I doubt it, or maybe shops for e-bike DIY pack builders supplies?) and you should not be using those anyway.

As far as the discussion about how long to keep batteries goes, I read somewhere that it's good practice to replace them every 6-12 months if you use your device every day. I don't use mine that often but would rather spend a bit more on batteries if it means staying safe, so maybe 1 year is a good rule for battery replacement.

No no, you replace them when they can't hold a charge anymore. A good sign for instance is when you charge them up to 4.2V and let them rest for say half an hour and they drop below 4V. Then if you try to use them you see you charge gauge drop pretty fast to 60% or less.

Good mods will tell you anyway that the cell is toasted with a "weak battery" message, when they detect too much voltage sag under load. If you want to be fancy and like numbers, you could measure their internal resistance as it is often a good indicator (but not systematically)

The thing to watch for is heat generation under load (and not heat transferred by the heater or vape body to the cell as it's misleading) An aged cell will have an increased internal resistance, this IR will generate heat via resistive losses and create more voltage sag under load... which in turn will often make the DC/DC converter in your mod try to pull more amps from the cell, resulting in more heat generated and more sag.

When a cell is near it's end of life it's not unusual to have say a resting voltage of 4V and see the output sag down to 3.4V or below as soon as you apply the load.

Anyway, as long as you use regulated vapes with built-in protections, don't sweat it too much. It's nice of you to worry about safety as these cells can indeed be dangerous and made the news several times when involved in spectacular incidents. But if you use genuine cells and stick to the models and minimum CDR recommended by your vape manufacturer, not much wrong can happen.

Now if you use unregulated vapes (equivalent of mech mods) that's another story. But keep in mind there are more incidents during charging than during discharging. Modern cells are designed to "vent gracefully" during short circuit conditions and don't catch fire as easily as some Li-Po chemistries found in very high discharge rate soft pouch packs (of course it's in no way an invitation to try, there's still plenty of heat and nasty fumes generated!)

 

[fifty_shades_of_green]

@KeroZen: Thanks for sharing some great information here!

After spending way too much time micro analysing things, I ended up ordering an XTAR VP4C today which uses USB for charging. My main reason for getting this model is that it let's you choose from three charging currents (0.25A / 0.5A / 1A) and it got good reviews. I was also looking at some Nitecore chargers and the Opus BT-C3100 but some people wrote that it broke after 1.5-2 years and also fried all their batteries when this happened.
I also ordered some Sony / Murata US18650VTC5 2600mAh batteries that have 30A CDR.

Anyway, as long as you use regulated vapes with built-in protections, don't sweat it too much. It's nice of you to worry about safety as these cells can indeed be dangerous and made the news several times when involved in spectacular incidents. But if you use genuine cells and stick to the models and minimum CDR recommended by your vape manufacturer, not much wrong can happen.

I have an XMAX Ace (hope it has built-in protections) and don't plan to mess around with mods. I think the Sony's CDR is a bit overkill for this vaporizer but better safe than sorry...

The recommendation for extended service life is 80-90% (or at least cutting at 4.1V max instead of 4.2V) but 60% is overkill, you'd get a poor capacity and it's even possible that it would offset the gains because you would have such short charge/discharge cycles that you would need a lot more of them (because cycle count is also a parameter for cell aging)

Any advice when charging my new batteries the first time? Should I fully charge them? Also, is it better to stick to the same charging current all the time with them or can I change the current from say .5A to 1A from session to session? Is it alright to put a sticker or adhesive tape on the batteries to tell them apart?

This might be a silly question but is it okay to use the USB wall adapter that came with my phone? The charger manual says it is but I'd like to confirm here. The input is .2A and the output is 5V=1A.

You should not buy refurbished cells extracted from God knows what kind of power tool or laptop packs. New cells should have no soldered tabs...

There are a lot of clowns and shady vendors out there. I've seen "8000mAh" 18650s advertised on ebay and other websites. Some are selling "refurbished cells" with the tabs removed and it looks like there's a burn mark on the top of the battery and I've read that there are even fake XTAR chargers out there. I went with a reputable vendor that gets their chargers directly from XTAR and it comes with a two year warranty, so hopefully everything will be ok and I'll have it by the weekend.

​

 

[RustyOldNail]

Here is a review from a trusted source:

Review of Xtar VP4C

“Conclusion

A fairly universal LiIon charger with low enough current to handle small batteries and large enough current to charge larger batteries, but for four batteries some patience is required.
It has a good display with battery voltage and selected current, but I do not like the power cable with USB-barrel connector, it may be more robust than USB-USB, but it is not as common. A weak USB supply will slow the charger significantly down!”

Just pasted this part, to remind you to buy at least a 2 amp USB power supply. IPads come with a 2.1 amp USB.

 

[Shit Snacks]

@KeroZen: Thanks for sharing some great information here!

After spending way too much time micro analysing things, I ended up ordering an XTAR VP4C today which uses USB for charging. My main reason for getting this model is that it let's you choose from three charging currents (0.25A / 0.5A / 1A) and it got good reviews. I was also looking at some Nitecore chargers and the Opus BT-C3100 but some people wrote that it broke after 1.5-2 years and also fried all their batteries when this happened.
I also ordered some Sony / Murata US18650VTC5 2600mAh batteries that have 30A CDR.



I have an XMAX Ace (hope it has built-in protections) and don't plan to mess around with mods. I think the Sony's CDR is a bit overkill for this vaporizer but better safe than sorry...


Any advice when charging my new batteries the first time? Should I fully charge them? Also, is it better to stick to the same charging current all the time with them or can I change the current from say .5A to 1A from session to session? Is it alright to put a sticker or adhesive tape on the batteries to tell them apart?

This might be a silly question but is it okay to use the USB wall adapter that came with my phone? The charger manual says it is but I'd like to confirm here. The input is .2A and the output is 5V=1A.


There are a lot of clowns and shady vendors out there. I've seen "8000mAh" 18650s advertised on ebay and other websites. Some are selling "refurbished cells" with the tabs removed and it looks like there's a burn mark on the top of the battery and I've read that there are even fake XTAR chargers out there. I went with a reputable vendor that gets their chargers directly from XTAR and it comes with a two year warranty, so hopefully everything will be ok and I'll have it by the weekend.

​

Yes charge them full the first time, yes you can mark them however to tell them apart (I use marker) and yes those Sony's are great, but definitely overkill for the Ace lol

 

[KeroZen]

Just pasted this part, to remind you to buy at least a 2 amp USB power supply. IPads come with a 2.1 amp USB.

There's a youtube channel called DiodeGoneWild that has an interesting series where he tests various random cheapo USB wall warts from Asia, and it's amazing to see how few of the 2A rated ones can really deliver and sustain what's written on the tin!

Some look okay at first glance but when he opens them and shows you what's inside, you'll shit bricks!

Here's a link to that playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfUGOPyKWwiriWhjmdtvjBw_J7X_X5OnU

So yeah @fifty_shades_of_green you need to use a *good* phone charger or charge lower than 1A.

 

[cybrguy]

While I am not at all surprised, this is a depressing video. It makes me want to test all the various chargers I use, but I don't have the knowledge or capability to do so. We are all very reliant on devices that may well be quite dodgy, to use his word. Bricks are all over my chair.

 

[oldfool]

makes me want to test all the various chargers I use, but I don't have the knowledge or capability to do so

If your charger will charge two calls at one amp each, the wall wart is at least two amps.
I have several wall warts left over from phones and bluetooth devices. 1/2A, 1 A, 1.5A and 2 A.
I use the 1/2A to charge 18350s at 1/4A. The others for 18650s, depending on how much time I have.

 

[RustyOldNail]

There's a youtube channel called DiodeGoneWild that has an interesting series where he tests various random cheapo USB wall warts from Asia, and it's amazing to see how few of the 2A rated ones can really deliver and sustain what's written on the tin!

Some look okay at first glance but when he opens them and shows you what's inside, you'll shit bricks!

Here's a link to that playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfUGOPyKWwiriWhjmdtvjBw_J7X_X5OnU

So yeah @fifty_shades_of_green you need to use a *good* phone charger or charge lower than 1A.

Read an article that included break down photos of an Apple 1amp iPhone wall charger, versus a Chinese cheap knock off. This in response to the general ignorance of consumers complaining about the large price difference. Not only electronically inferior, but dangerous, if they work .....

 

[fifty_shades_of_green]

There's a youtube channel called DiodeGoneWild that has an interesting series where he tests various random cheapo USB wall warts from Asia, and it's amazing to see how few of the 2A rated ones can really deliver and sustain what's written on the tin!

Wow, that's some really shocking stuff! It's totally ridiculous that such unsafe crap is for sale and far too many shady vendors on Amazon and e-bay are happy to peddle this stuff. Buyer beware!

Just pasted this part, to remind you to buy at least a 2 amp USB power supply. IPads come with a 2.1 amp USB.

I have two original USB phone chargers/switching power adapters with 1A output (one from Sony and the other from Huwaei) and this is where I get confused. I've read that the Ace shouldn't be connected to the phone chargers and that's why I've always used my computer to recharge the battery inside the Ace (charging current via usb is 1A). Then I discovered this thread and it seems like having an external charger is much safer and lets you monitor the voltage on your cells more precisely and it would also identify any defective ones too. Is it ok to connect my charger to either of them or is it better to connect it to my computer? Is it best to connect a charger to a power strip with "surge protection" to really play it safe?

The XTAR VP4C lets you choose the charging current and goes up to 1 A. I bought this model because it doesn't have super fast charging which I've read can be more dangerous and kills batteries faster. If I connect it to a phone charger that only has an output of 1A, will it take ages to charge batteries or is it simply not powerful enough to drive the charger? I don't mind waiting a few hours (it usually takes 2-3 charging via usb on my computer).

All of the stuff that I've learned by reading this thread and the "diodes gone wild" videos has got me more than a little worried--at times, it seems like we're working with nitro or plutonium! Has anyone had problems with their charger malfunctioning or breaking down after a year and frying all their batteries or worse?

 

[cybrguy]

While I am not at all surprised, this is a depressing video. It makes me want to test all the various chargers I use, but I don't have the knowledge or capability to do so. We are all very reliant on devices that may well be quite dodgy, to use his word. Bricks are all over my chair.

If your charger will charge two calls at one amp each

I'm sorry, I meant power bricks or charging plugs, not battery chargers. My bad.

 

[oldfool]

I'm sorry, I meant power bricks or charging plugs, not battery chargers. My bad.

I meant these things. We all have several.
If it will charge two cells in your charger at 1A...you're good.
If it will only charge them at 1/2A then it's only putting out 1A total.

 

[RustyOldNail]

Wow, that's some really shocking stuff! It's totally ridiculous that such unsafe crap is for sale and far too many shady vendors on Amazon and e-bay are happy to peddle this stuff. Buyer beware!

I have two original USB phone chargers/switching power adapters with 1A output (one from Sony and the other from Huwaei) and this is where I get confused. I've read that the Ace shouldn't be connected to the phone chargers and that's why I've always used my computer to recharge the battery inside the Ace (charging current via usb is 1A). Then I discovered this thread and it seems like having an external charger is much safer and lets you monitor the voltage on your cells more precisely and it would also identify any defective ones too. Is it ok to connect my charger to either of them or is it better to connect it to my computer? Is it best to connect a charger to a power strip with "surge protection" to really play it safe?

The XTAR VP4C lets you choose the charging current and goes up to 1 A. I bought this model because it doesn't have super fast charging which I've read can be more dangerous and kills batteries faster. If I connect it to a phone charger that only has an output of 1A, will it take ages to charge batteries or is it simply not powerful enough to drive the charger? I don't mind waiting a few hours (it usually takes 2-3 charging via usb on my computer).

All of the stuff that I've learned by reading this thread and the "diodes gone wild" videos has got me more than a little worried--at times, it seems like we're working with nitro or plutonium! Has anyone had problems with their charger malfunctioning or breaking down after a year and frying all their batteries or worse?

Buy yourself a USB wall power supply that can deliver at least 2 amps like an iPad type. This way you are not handicapping you new charger and can get the most out of it. Personally, I’d never use an expensive laptop as a USB power supply, as there is always a possibility, you could blow that USB port, expensive repair?

As far as surge protectors, I use an expensive one for my audio/video gear, my battery charger is just plugged into the wall. A month ago, my friends house caught fire, he got out, but lost everything. Fire department said the cause was a faulty SURGE PROTECTOR!

 

[cybrguy]

I meant these things. We all have several.
If it will charge two cells in your charger at 1A...you're good.
If it will only charge them at 1/2A then it's only putting out 1A total.

When I bought my XTAR VC4L charger from Amazon, I bought the 2.1 amp power block they sold as an option with it just to be sure. I almost bought the VC4S instead as I thought I might like the "storage" setting that one offers, but what finally made up my mind was the USB C connection over the barrel connector. Subsequently @RustyOldNail has learned me that I probably don't need to "store" my extra batteries so this choice turned out well...

 

[fifty_shades_of_green]

Buy yourself a USB wall power supply that can deliver at least 2 amps like an iPad type. This way you are not handicapping you new charger and can get the most out of it. Personally, I’d never use an expensive laptop as a USB power supply, as there is always a possibility, you could blow that USB port, expensive repair?

Can you recommend any safe USB wall power supplies or should I just get an iPad one? I feel like I'm walking through a minefield of unsafe and dodgy products. This just keeps getting more and more complicated...

When I bought my XTAR VC4L charger from Amazon, I bought the 2.1 amp power block they sold as an option with it just to be sure. I almost bought the VC4S instead as I thought I might like the "storage" setting that one offers, but what finally made up my mind was the USB C connection over the barrel connector.

I'm starting to think that I ordered the wrong charger but I liked the idea of being able to adjust the amps on the one I ordered and didn't want to get a super fast charger. Maybe the XTAR VP4 with the option to plug into the wall socket would have been a better choice.

Someone mentioned earlier that regulated vapes have "built in protection." Is that simply the "cut off" point in which the device shuts down? The working voltage for the Ace is 3.3-4.2V, so I assume it powers off if the battery gets too low.

 

[RustyOldNail]

Can you recommend any safe USB wall power supplies or should I just get an iPad one? I feel like I'm walking through a minefield of unsafe and dodgy products. This just keeps getting more and more complicated...

I'm starting to think that I ordered the wrong charger but I liked the idea of being able to adjust the amps on the one I ordered and didn't want to get a super fast charger. Maybe the XTAR VP4 with the option to plug into the wall socket would have been a better choice.

Someone mentioned earlier that regulated vapes have "built in protection." Is that simply the "cut off" point in which the device shuts down? The working voltage for the Ace is 3.3-4.2V, so I assume it powers off if the battery gets too low.

Look up the “Anker” brand, see good reviews for their USB power supplies.

A regulated device usually means there is built in protection, programmed into the devices chip, on large power tools, the smarts are often contained in the battery packs themselves. That’s how you get a LOW BATTERY WARNING. Your device will probably shut down at 3.3 volts, and I assume the device gives you an advanced warning it’s running low, so you can swap it. Other protections are things like reverse battery, over heating, etc.

 

[fifty_shades_of_green]

Look up the “Anker” brand, see good reviews for their USB power supplies.

Thank you for that recommendation. Their USB power supplies look pretty solid and I can see the reason for getting one that delivers 2 amps now (more on that below).

My VP4C arrived today and I've almost got those new Sony VCT5As fully charged up. It's a decent charger and simple enough to use but I like the blue LCD screen on the VC4 more and it lets you charge different types of cells not only 18650s. I actually paid more for my VP4C but the fact that the fastest charging current is 1 amp seemed like the safest way to go. The batteries were shipped with 3.2V and I've been charging them for about 3.5 hours so far at .5 amp (I think it will be about 15-20 to reach their full capacity).

This thread has been a great learning experience and I'm now much more aware of the problem with counterfeit batteries and chargers as well as battery safety. Btw, I liked the fact that the XTAR ships with an 18 digit code that you have to scratch off and can then check on their website to see if you have an authentic charger.

Just a few other things crossed my mind recently concerning battery safety. Why do vape manufacturers make products that use unprotected batteries? Is there any good technical reason for this or does it just come down to cutting costs? This brings to mind the shameful case when Ford decided to save a few bucks by not putting shields on fuel tanks on Mustangs/Pintos in the early 70s which caused some fiery deaths...

I've also read elsewhere online that there is no such thing as "original" Sony 18650s on the market because Sony never sells individual cells to retailers, so vendors must have split up battery packs in order to sell single batteries to their customers. Maybe the same thing applies to Samsung and LG? Any thoughts on this?

 

[RustyOldNail]

Thank you for that recommendation. Their USB power supplies look pretty solid and I can see the reason for getting one that delivers 2 amps now (more on that below).

My VP4C arrived today and I've almost got those new Sony VCT5As fully charged up. It's a decent charger and simple enough to use but I like the blue LCD screen on the VC4 more and it lets you charge different types of cells not only 18650s. I actually paid more for my VP4C but the fact that the fastest charging current is 1 amp seemed like the safest way to go. The batteries were shipped with 3.2V and I've been charging them for about 3.5 hours so far at .5 amp (I think it will be about 15-20 to reach their full capacity).

This thread has been a great learning experience and I'm now much more aware of the problem with counterfeit batteries and chargers as well as battery safety. Btw, I liked the fact that the XTAR ships with an 18 digit code that you have to scratch off and can then check on their website to see if you have an authentic charger.

Just a few other things crossed my mind recently concerning battery safety. Why do vape manufacturers make products that use unprotected batteries? Is there any good technical reason for this or does it just come down to cutting costs? This brings to mind the shameful case when Ford decided to save a few bucks by not putting shields on fuel tanks on Mustangs/Pintos in the early 70s which caused some fiery deaths...

I've also read elsewhere online that there is no such thing as "original" Sony 18650s on the market because Sony never sells individual cells to retailers, so vendors must have split up battery packs in order to sell single batteries to their customers. Maybe the same thing applies to Samsung and LG? Any thoughts on this?

Glad to see you up and running. Owning the stuff and having it in hand, will make things easier. Obviously, read your charger manual.

Most 18650’s, can easily be charged at 2 amps, and some even at 3 amps. Of course the charger is the limiting factor. While my charger can do 3 amps, I normally charge at 1 - 1.5 amps. Certainly, a “.5” charge is easier on a battery, and not a big deal if you are not in a hurry. Don’t worry, if at whatever point you decide to charge at the higher rate, and want to use them faster if needed. My Xtar VP2 never let me down, but a year ago I bought the SkyRC, as it had 4 bays, and all the manual features and control I’ll ever need.

I’ve seen you ask about “protected batteries” in some of your posts, I assumed with all your research, that you would have learned about them at this point.

So, short version .... a PROTECTED battery is just the same battery, with an added piece of electronics, that will CUT OFF the output at a pre-programmed voltage (3-3.3 volts, up to manufacturer), similar to the way the programmed chipset in your electronic vaping device works. As you have learned, lithium’s don’t like to be drained or stored below 2.5 volts. If you look at the battery manufacturers specification sheet, you’ll see they fully charge a battery to 4.2 volts, then discharge to 2.5 volts, and that’s how the mAh “milliamp hours” is calculated. If you come across a lithium that’s say 2.0 volts, many chargers won’t even recognize or charge them, just bring those to a recycling place.

Protected batteries are useful, as NOT EVERY device that uses 18650’s or other size lithium batteries has built in electronics PROTECTION. An example is a few of my LED flashlights.

DOWNSIDE of PROTECTED BATTERIES:

Because of the ADDED “chip” on the positive end, it makes the battery LONGER, and an extra millimeter or so, makes them NOT FIT, in many products, unless like my flashlights, the product is designed to use protected batteries, like many Nitecore flashlights and others.

BUT, in most devices with protected electronics even if they could fit, you wouldn’t want or need a protected battery as the device is already doing that job, most likely much better then the battery add-on chip. And in some cases the two protection systems may interfere with each other. In simple terms, let’s say your device shuts off at 3.0 volts, but you were able to fit a longer “protected” battery in, but that chip cuts the voltage off at 3.3 volts, that’s going to cut your voltage sooner then the device would have with a non-protected battery. You lose .3 volts, which can be meaningful.

So as you can see, if the device already has protection, adding more electronics does not make it twice as safe. These inexpensive chips added to the batteries before they are wrapped, can go bad, the battery itself may be fine, but no longer work.

While “protected” batteries have their place, most of the devices we use, are built for UNPROTECTED batteries, and usually that’s all that will fit.

Well, I guess that’s wasn’t so short......

 

[fifty_shades_of_green]

Glad to see you up and running. Owning the stuff and having it in hand, will make things easier. Obviously, read your charger manual.

The batteries charged up just fine and didn't even feel warm at the end of the charging process, maybe that's because I charged them at .5 amps.

Protected batteries are useful, as NOT EVERY device that uses 18650’s or other size lithium batteries has built in electronics PROTECTION. An example is a few of my LED flashlights.

Thank you for going over the upsides and downsides of using protected batteries. I had some assumptions based on what I read but your example of how using a protected battery in a vape would actually be counterproductive makes much more sense now.

I did some searching on the Net and found the link that I had read earlier on another forum about Sony discontinuing their 18650 VTC4/5 batteries in 2015 which has me really perplexed. Many reputable vendors are selling these batteries and the VTC 6 too, so I really don't know what to make of all this.

Sony's official response to the availability of VTC4 and VTC5 18650s

Sony writes to PowerStream to explain why it is so hard to get the VTC4 and VTC5 cells

www.powerstream.com

Are the "new" Sony VTC 5As that I received today actually from 2015? If that's the case, how long can 18650 li-ion batteries be safely used?

 

[RustyOldNail]

The batteries charged up just fine and didn't even feel warm at the end of the charging process, maybe that's because I charged them at .5 amps.


Thank you for going over the upsides and downsides of using protected batteries. I had some assumptions based on what I read but your example of how using a protected battery in a vape would actually be counterproductive makes much more sense now.

I did some searching on the Net and found the link that I had read earlier on another forum about Sony discontinuing their 18650 VTC4/5 batteries in 2015 which has me really perplexed. Many reputable vendors are selling these batteries and the VTC 6 too, so I really don't know what to make of all this.

Sony's official response to the availability of VTC4 and VTC5 18650s

Sony writes to PowerStream to explain why it is so hard to get the VTC4 and VTC5 cells

www.powerstream.com

Are the "new" Sony VTC 5As that I received today actually from 2015? If that's the case, how long can 18650 li-ion batteries be safely used?

Your batteries won’t get hot even at 1-2 amp charge. HOT, when talking about these batteries usually means something you can’t hold for more then a few seconds, and that’s NOT GOOD!

Since EVERYONE who cares about heath, property, etc., already KNOWS...

NEVER CHARGE LITHIUM BATTERIES UNATTENDED!!!!

Now and then, when I have batteries charging, I’ll “lightly” touch the top of the batteries and they are usually not even that warm. My charger monitors the temperatures of the batteries, but I never put 100% faith in robots!

TIP: Another reason you will consider charging to 1 amp, is if you want to leave your charger and go out. 1/2 amp charging takes forever. In a pinch, just STOP the charger, until you return. Most folks upgrade their older chargers, just to get faster charge rates.

Now, as far as that article you linked to.
First, it was written in 2016, 5 years ago. So if you want to google RESEARCH, which we all respect, always check when something was written, technology nowadays is measured in days and months, not years.

Sony was bought by Murata, and long ago they added their name on the wrapper. So before I keep writing, ...
... tell me or post a closeup photo of your SONY battery ...
and post a link to the site you bought them from?

Then we’ll talk....

Something like this?

 

[fifty_shades_of_green]

Sony was bought by Murata, and long ago they added their name on the wrapper. So before I keep writing, ...
... tell me or post a closeup photo of your SONY battery ...
and post a link to the site you bought them from?

Yes, I'm aware that Murata acquired Sony's Li-ion battery division in 2017 and the VTC5A is most likely the next iteration of the older VTC5s. Murata may well have changed Sony's business practice and decided to start selling individual 18650 batteries to vendors again. The point I wanted to make is that many fora mention that the big companies don't sell individual cells directly to vendors which begs the question if vendors are taking them from battery packs and then selling them to consumers or if they have some kind of deal with the big companies...

All the big battery producers have a disclaimer that their batteries are not intended for e-cigs or vaping and the major vendors also have a disclaimer the batteries aren't intended to be used alone or for vaping to protect themselves against liability claims. AFAIK, the only companies that advertise their batteries as being suitable for vaping are Molicel and maybe Chinese ones like Vapcell and Efest.

I've noticed that some reputable vendors don't have any Sony 18650s in stock at the moment including the place I bought mine from (it seems that I got the last pair on Wed).

https://www.18650batterystore.com/collections/sony-murata-18650-batteries (all sold out)

https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/18650-size/brand-/sony-avatar.html (a few Sony batteries are available)

https://shop.baltrade.eu/category/38,Samsung_unprotected (place that I bought mine from also has none, so that's why I posted a link to the Samsung 18650s which are the only ones available at the moment)

FC won't let me upload the photos of my batteries even though I changed the setting on my account (maybe it just needs time). Anyway, I paid the equivalent of about $10 per battery and it's similar to the one on your photo. Having said that, one battery's QR code square at the top is one the same 'side' of the battery as is the rest of the information about the cell. On the other one, it is not visible as in your photo--you have to turn the battery in order to see it. The text also isn't so neatly aligned as on your battery but I've seen a lot of photos of "suspiciously" aligned battery info on many reputable sites so I really don't know if that matters. It seems strange that the placement of the QR code and text alignment could very so greatly on each cell that is produced...

 

[RustyOldNail]

Yes, I'm aware that Murata acquired Sony's Li-ion battery division in 2017 and the VTC5A is most likely the next iteration of the older VTC5s. Murata may well have changed Sony's business practice and decided to start selling individual 18650 batteries to vendors again. The point I wanted to make is that many fora mention that the big companies don't sell individual cells directly to vendors which begs the question if vendors are taking them from battery packs and then selling them to consumers or if they have some kind of deal with the big companies...

All the big battery producers have a disclaimer that their batteries are not intended for e-cigs or vaping and the major vendors also have a disclaimer the batteries aren't intended to be used alone or for vaping to protect themselves against liability claims. AFAIK, the only companies that advertise their batteries as being suitable for vaping are Molicel and maybe Chinese ones like Vapcell and Efest.

I've noticed that some reputable vendors don't have any Sony 18650s in stock at the moment including the place I bought mine from (it seems that I got the last pair on Wed).

https://www.18650batterystore.com/collections/sony-murata-18650-batteries (all sold out)

https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/18650-size/brand-/sony-avatar.html (a few Sony batteries are available)

https://shop.baltrade.eu/category/38,Samsung_unprotected (place that I bought mine from also has none, so that's why I posted a link to the Samsung 18650s which are the only ones available at the moment)

FC won't let me upload the photos of my batteries even though I changed the setting on my account (maybe it just needs time). Anyway, I paid the equivalent of about $10 per battery and it's similar to the one on your photo. Having said that, one battery's QR code square at the top is one the same 'side' of the battery as is the rest of the information about the cell. On the other one, it is not visible as in your photo--you have to turn the battery in order to see it. The text also isn't so neatly aligned as on your battery but I've seen a lot of photos of "suspiciously" aligned battery info on many reputable sites so I really don't know if that matters. It seems strange that the placement of the QR code and text alignment could very so greatly on each cell that is produced...

Agreed, it’s a GOAT ROADEO out there in terms of fakes and clones. The best you can do if you haven’t already is search for “battery mooch”, he had the added equipment to test batteries at their amp limit, temperature limit. He has YouTube videos, published charts and specs on many batteries.

Or read up on how Molicel only sells to verified vendors, so NO fakes.

I don’t know if Sony/Murata is still making VTC5’s or not, the single cells are NOT all from “battery packs”, the world of purchasing lots of batteries from major manufacturers is a lot more complicated, which only makes it harder for us consumers. And batteries coming off assembly lines are divided into LOTS, graded by performance tests, given “A”, “B”, designations, the “A” bin, top spec performers, go to BIG companies, electric car makers, power tool makers etc. A lot of re-wraps, if you are LUCKY, are maybe BIN “B”, or worse, or the wrap is a completely different cheap battery, that’s why you see crazy cheap prices and deals.

If your charger has the ability to test the batteries mAh, you can see if they are close to the specs sheet, that’s about the best you can do to check if battery might be suspect. Also checking out the MOOCH posts, he has written a bunch on how to check visually some battery models, but it’s a moving target.

WELCOME to the world of buying lithium batteries!

Best to spend more time, learning what to do if you ever have to deal with a lithium battery fire. Save up and buy one of the new lithium fire extinguishers, I’ve posted earlier in this thread.

Good luck, and ENJOY!

ADDED THE MOOCH REVIEW AND SPECS ON MURATA VTC5:

https://m.facebook.com/batterymooch/posts/bench-test-results-murata-vtc5-18650performs-the-same-as-sony-vtc5bottom-line-in/2162374517385456/

 

[Shit Snacks]

Skimmed, but if they are brand new batteries that are old, I'm sure they're still fine, they just might not last that long, but honestly I'm using some batteries from many years ago and they're mostly fine? Well maintained things can last a long time safely!

 

[RustyOldNail]

Skimmed, but if they are brand new batteries that are old, I'm sure they're still fine, they just might not last that long, but honestly I'm using some batteries from many years ago and they're mostly fine? Well maintained things can last a long time safely!

Skimmed... indeed...

 

[Shit Snacks]

Skimmed... indeed...

I know I try to ignore your advice about the extinguisher and keeping them in the fridge, I don't think my ocd needs all that since I've been getting by okay?? Or am I overdue