18650 Battery Safety

[hinglemccringleberry]

is there a 18650 charger where you can leave your batteries even after charging?

Any reputable brand charger (Nitecore, Efest, Xtar, Gyrfalcon, etc) will have an overcharge protection feature. But even so I would always take the battery off the charger (or unplug the charger) when it's done charging just out of principle.

...like a Milaana or Lil'Bud in fact.

Pardon the newbie question, but what are the differences (if any) between those mechanical unregulated mods that exploded in people's faces, and the Milaana/Lil Bud? Do Milaana/Lil Bud users have the same risk of that happening?

 

[KeroZen]

The main difference is that said mech mod users were quite often also custom RDA or RTA users, meaning they built their own coils. And doing so it's quite easy to get too low in resistance (was called sub-ohming at first but I imagine now it's the norm?) and this is where you can easily exceed your cell continuous discharge rate (CDR) and make it enter thermal runaway.

In theory if you damaged your Milaana heater so much that it almost hard-shorted (very unlikely due to the presence of the insulator, which is absent in the Lil Bud) you could well end up doing the same. But under normal conditions, its heater resistance is fixed and designed in a way giving ample headroom for the recommended cells you are expected to use.

As for explosions, it's nearly always due to improper venting provisions in the vape body design. Some mech mods are just plain metal tubes and become the equivalent of a pipe bomb when pressure from the out-gassing can not escape. Again not a problem in the Milaana which is wide open where the battery sits.

 

[Bazinga]

I have previously asked this question (similar question) in another thread. I don't believe I got an answer. It seems all my 18650 battery vapes use different capacity batteries. I was wondering if I could use a 18650-3500mah-15A in the Tinymight, IQ2, and the Tetra P80. Sony and Samsung (and I'm sure others) sell them. Would make my life a little less complicated. Please do not refer me to Moose the battery expert because I cannot grasp the information provided on his website.

Modnote: This post and around 6 pages of replies were merged into the 18650 Battery Safety thread.

 

[GoldenBud]

if I could use a 18650-3500mah-15A in the Tinymight, IQ2, and the Tetra P80

yes.... Watts=Volts*Amperes ,~3.3v* 15A = 49.5W ,it's fine. you can use it. the problem is with 10A then it's 33.3W~ and will take longer to heat the TP80's glass, for example. on papers, TM needs 70W too for the highest temp, I guess you don't use the highest temp anyway
Edit: also the TP80 needs 70W for best performance, but you maybe will lose few seconds for heating the glass rods / won't feel any difference because you don't use the highest temp , I think.

make sure the cover of the battery is 100% fine, no scratches or peelings . if so, purchase new ones or find somebody which knows how to replace the cover

 

[Bazinga]

You are correct - I do not use the highest temperatures. Thanks GoldenBud !! Time to place the order.

 

[KeroZen]

It will work but running a cell at its CDR will shorten its life. And you'll get quite a lot of voltage sag. Problems might arise later down the road when the cell degrades, this is why we recommend using a good safety margin.

On top of that you might not get that much runtime since the cell will appear depleted (due to the sag) earlier to the device.

 

[Bazinga]

CDR? Voltage sag?

These are the types of things I am unable to wrap my head around.

 

[Easywider]

Choosing the Right 18650 Battery for the Job​

The most important trait to consider when looking at 18650 batteries is the continuous discharge rating (CDR), also known as amperage capacity.

The CDR is the rate at which current---measured in amps (A)---can be pulled from the battery without it overheating. In order to find out which battery is right for you, you'll need to match the CDR of the battery with the power draw associated with your device.

If you pick the wrong battery, the cells will get too hot. Heat will damage the battery, reducing its overall lifespan. Overheating may even cause the cells to explode, leak, or damage your device.

Fortunately, there's a direct relation between CDR (A) and battery capacity (mAh). The higher the capacity, the lower the CDR. That means devices that draw less power can take advantage of higher-capacity cells. Hungrier devices will need to use lower-capacity cells in order to safely draw more current.

 

[Shit Snacks]

CDR? Voltage sag?

These are the types of things I am unable to wrap my head around.

It's not that complicated, just buy one of these flat top batteries:

LG HE4 or HG2
Samsung 25R or 30Q
Sony VTC5 or VTC6
Molicell P26A

Any of these will work well in each of your vapes! The IQ2 Is the only one that can technically use a cell with higher mah and lower amp (so the battery that comes with it, only use that one with the IQ2)

 

[RustyOldNail]

I have all those cells, except the HG brand.

Just buy some LEGIT Murata VTC6, a true 15amp 3000mAh. They work fine in the IQ2 as the specs are similar to the included YDL.

This is the info I gathered on the YDL 18650 that comes with the IQ2:

(1) - YDL 18650d - 3080mAh, 11.1WH, Chinese, Purple Wrap, (MDS sheet I was sent by rep., 3080mAh, 11.1WH) company lists only as 20A, but says device works with 10 amps, device seems to use a 3.0 voltage cutoff? NO mAh rating. (1-2021, came with Davinci IQ2)
1-21: mAh= 2917 WH= 10.5 DC IR= 30 AC IR= 10.8

 

[Bazinga]

Thanks Snacks !!! Your response made it simple.

I can build a PC, drone, fixed wing aircraft, etc. but this battery chemistry stuff is better understood by a 10 year old than by me.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Thanks Snacks !!! Your response made it simple.

I can build a PC, drone, fixed wing aircraft, etc. but this battery chemistry stuff is better understood by a 10 year old than by me.

Haha yeah no reason to overthink it with the specs etc. as those are the most used cells here for these portables, so simple enough!

 

[Summer]

Sony VTC5a is also fine.

 

[Duba]

In my Lil'Bud, i usually use VTC5D with good results.
I tried a VtC6 (for little more autonomy?) and i have trouble with it.
My LB should works better with more CDR? or it doesn't change much between VTC5 and VTC6 for an unregulated vape?

 

[purepotstill]

Hi guys,

got a question about battery charge and storage. Will use my batteries into a Tinymight and Tetra P80. Bought 4 Molicel P28A and a Nitecore UMS4 loader. Have one Sony coming with the P80 and think another with the TM.

Here we go : read you want to load your battery around 80% capacity for storage. I'm not a heavy user, I mostly vape at night, and not in huge quantities (something between 0.2 and 0.4g with my VapCaps, alternating between full and half dose) so I think a couple of bowls/evening would do the trick for me. I'd like to avoid building tolerance... So my batteries will probably wait a few days before use. Can I load them all max or should I load part of them to 80 ? In other words, after how much time do you consider it's "storage" ?

 

[KeroZen]

Over a month I would say.

 

[purepotstill]

Over a month I would say.

Thank you. Think I can safely max load my 6 batteries though.

 

[cybrguy]

So this was from the TinyMight thread, but it was out of place so I will post it here...

$18.83 Delivered for 2 Molicel P28A 18650 2800mAh 35A Batteries
My quote was LIION and it's about a buck more than BATTERYSTORE would be, but last time I ordered from Liion the "gift" was a decent (cheap) flashlight I have been using ever since so I'll gamble on that.
All I've ever gotten as a promo from other vendors have been battery storage boxes, which are useful but worth about 25¢.

So batteries came today and a new flashlight was my "free gift" along with a battery box so I am perfectly happy to pay an extra buck...

 

[Shit Snacks]

So this was from the TinyMight thread, but it was out of place so I will post it here...

So batteries came today and a new flashlight was my "free gift" along with a battery box so I am perfectly happy to pay an extra buck...

Awesome! Yeah an extra couple dollars for a flashlight is pretty good, I don't even have one... Funnily enough though my battery is also arrived today, I have one charging up to test out tonight! So both ship nice and fast

 

[purepotstill]

So this was from the TinyMight thread, but it was out of place so I will post it here...

So batteries came today and a new flashlight was my "free gift" along with a battery box so I am perfectly happy to pay an extra buck...

Curious to hear you about these P28A. Mine suck, but I think I didn't buy them in the good store (old and/or bad storage conditions). Ordered some P26A from nkon (seems it's one of the best seller for EU).

 

[Shit Snacks]

Curious to hear you about these P28A. Mine suck, but I think I didn't buy them in the good store (old and/or bad storage conditions). Ordered some P26A from nkon (seems it's one of the best seller for EU).

Yeah you posting that is what made me wary, but they really should be the same as the p26 only a little longer lasting, so I ordered three and I'm only one bowl into it with my TM so far...

 

[cybrguy]

I threw one in my TM yesterday and used it up over the course of the evening. Didn't seem hugely different from the HG2s I have been using but it was just the first attempt.
Edit!
Nope, wrong TM. The one with the P28A is still giving me 5 buzzes. I will readdress this after I have used it up.

 

[RustyOldNail]

Glad some of you took advantage of the availability of this upgraded version of the P26A, I had placed myself on the 18650batterystore’s “alert when available” email list, but I don’t need anymore right now, so I shared that link, somewhere else here.

If you own a charger/analyzer, you can test your batteries and see if some of your test results, match the manufacturers specifications. Mostly, if you match the charge/discharge settings from the spec sheet to your a analyzer, you can at least determine if you are getting a similar capacity mAh, compared to the advertised/spec sheet capacity.

Unfortunately testing for a battery’s actual CDR, amp rating, one needs equipment that measures battery temperature at high loads, as the generated HEAT of the battery, determines the safe limit on amperage draw. I don’t own a setup like that, but the SkyRC MC3000, does allow for manual settings and mAh results, after a CHARGE/DISCHARGE/CHARGE cycle. This charger, also roughly measures a batteries DC resistance, and I have a separate meter that measures AC resistance. Using these measurements along with mAh results, I can be pretty sure if I have a real battery, or fake. Molicel, at least if you buy from an “authorized” dealer, will have a high chance of being an original.

I doubt anyone will notice the difference between this model and the P26A, the added 200mAh of capacity, something I mentioned in my original post.

So if your batteries are not performing as you expect, perhaps they are fakes, re-wraps, or have reached EOF, End Of Life. The “Battery Mooch”, thankfully has the extra equipment to test for accurate CDR limits.

 

[cybrguy]

I have 2 Nitecore chargers, both D2 with digital display, one 2 bay and one 4 bay. One of the bays in the 4 bay has stopped charging which makes me a littler nervous about it's safety. I will be looking for a 4 bay to replace it. Anyone have any favorite 4 bay digital charger they would like to recommend?

 

[purepotstill]

@cybrguy : you had them long ? Bought one 3 weeks ago (UMS4 model). Working fine atm, but still curious.