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Interesting News, Articles & Stuff

florduh

Well-Known Member
Trump and the Republicans have murdered a bunch of Texans, including little girls on a camping trip.



The parents of all those children who died should be happy! Now important "job creator" capitalists like Jeff Bezos can pay even less in taxes! And what did it cost? A few dozen dead kids? Their parents probably don't have important, stressful "jobs", like owning stuff!
 

CANtalk

Well-Known Member

The US is No Longer a Democracy. Will It Stay That Way?​


More Americans think the U.S. is in a constitutional crisis than think the U.S. is a democracy​


The ‘Free World’ Is Gone and There’s No Turning Back​


Trump has dropped a big, beautiful bomb on America’s economy​


‘It’s too late’: David Suzuki says the fight against climate change is lost​


Texas Officials Blame Agency Gutted by Trump for Results of Deadly Storm​


Before the US budget bill passed,

Republican Senator Tells House Not To Vote on Bill She Just Voted For​


:peace: :leaf:
 
CANtalk,

Bazinga

Well-Known Member
Wow, if this is so much of an imposition for the poor business owner, he should just sign the business over to the guys actually running the restaurant! Problem solved! This is why capitalists famously yearn for The Revolution! Owning the means of production is so stressful!

Florduh If we ever meet it would my honor to buy you a coffee (decaf for you). Or a beer if more to your liking.
So, you think the hamburger maker/flipper is educated enough, experienced enough, and has the mental wherewithal to run the business? I he aware of the human resource issues and other has relevant business acumen to run the business? If he was that talented he wouldn't be making hamburgers. He may not be able to afford buying a business but he certainly could find a better paying job.

It was a 5 minute video using simple numbers. It also doesn't matter what the exact number is. I don't care how much raw hamburger meat the business owner buys or how nice of a place he rents.... all of that is worthless until workers transform the raw materials into a saleable product. There is no value without labor! And the only labor you've attributed to the owner is signing checks and being stressed. As if food service industry workers in this country never have to deal with financial stress themselves.

And the worker would not have a job if the owner hadn't taken the financial risk and had the business acumen to even open the business.

I mean, the hamburger maker makes hamburgers that are good enough to sell for $15+ (these days). The owner just signs checks and goes to meetings:shrug:
I wish that's all I had to do to keep my job. Although I did sign about 500 checks a month. I usually took them home to sign in the evenings.
And I agree there is (not value) but business without labor. But here again is the rub. What is the value of labor? Mr. Wolff apparently thinks the value of labor is relative to profit. Hey lets talk more about the hamburger store. Let's assume that the store , in its first year, did actually make a annual profit of $300,000 (I'll even ignore expenses for this discussion). I think you and Mr. Wolff would agree that the helper would be entitled to $150,000. Now suppose the store, since being it's first year of operations had a net profit of -0-. This happens quite a bit. Does that mean the workers labor is meaningless and has no value. Of course not, we still need to pay him. Now what also happens if the fledgling businesses incurs a loss. Let's say our hamburger joint loses $10,000 in it's first year. Should the employee now have to pay the owner $5,000? Does the the employee only share in profits but not losses?
I also like this delusion that the hamburger maker isn't starting his own restaurant because he's dumb or something. No, he just isn't rich enough. And he never will be. He has as much of a chance of owning his own restaurant as a medieval serf did at becoming part of the nobility.
Really, so all business owners are rich? I have examined and consulted with many small businesses. Most of these owners were far from rich. Large corporate businesses on the other hand need much more capital and most of us are unable to provide that funding. Keep in mind that some small business start in a garage and end up turning into giant corporations (Apple, etal.) I wish you would have had your own (successful) business. You would be so much better positioned to discuss business. Don't misunderstand me. I have absolutely no problems or issues with your comments. I wish others also would chime in with their thoughts and experiences in the business world.

Floriduh I'm going to thank you again for responding respectively and sharing your thoughts and ideas. It is a Professor's job to provide facts and scenarios that open students minds and enable them to make thoughtful informed evaluations. Students, and non-students, alike untimely benefit from this. In terms of business operations Mr. Wolff has failed. It doesn't matter if his presentation was cursory. He should have presented all the relative facts of his narrative. It possibly would have added 30 seconds or minute to his video. What he did what to obfuscate in order to make his point. If he is going to try to influence people he needs do it objectively and not mislead or omit crucial facts. Do it right!!

Final 2 things - I promise.
The local library emailed me to inform me the book has finally arrived !! I'll pick it on Monday/
I watched another video from Mr. Wolff. This one is titled "Is China Capitalist, Socialist or Communist?" This is where he shines. I don't necessary agree with everything he says but I think it provides some good material. I'll send you all the link when I find it. If he would just just cease espousing about things he doesn't have any experience with (running a business).
 
Bazinga,

Rodney

Well-Known Member
So, you think the hamburger maker/flipper is educated enough, experienced enough, and has the mental wherewithal to run the business? I he aware of the human resource issues and other has relevant business acumen to run the business? If he was that talented he wouldn't be making hamburgers. He may not be able to afford buying a business but he certainly could find a better paying job.

Yevgeny Prigozhin started out by selling hotdogs and then went on to own a chain of restaurants and catering companies not to mention his very successful military career but his rise to fame came threw corrupt means as he was Putin's pal so he is probably not the best example to be using :p
 
Rodney,
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florduh

Well-Known Member
If he was that talented he wouldn't be making hamburgers.

Well we just disagree. I think someone who can make a burger good enough to sell for $15 is talented. More talented that someone who's job is figuring out how they can skim more money for themselves off the labor of others.

The business owner doesn't make the burgers, didn't raise the cows, didn't slaughter the cows, didn't build the physical restaurant. Workers did. You want me to feel bad for the capitalist because it's so HARD to figure out how to leech a little more for themselves off of other people doing actual work

its-always-sunny-in-philadelphia-charlie-kelly.gif

Does the the employee only share in profits but not losses?

In a collectively owned operation, they wouldn't be an "employee" they'd be a co-owner so your question doesn't make sense. I think this is your main confusion. Socialism is a different way to organize labor. A democratic way. I understand you prefer authoritarianism.

I wish you would have had your own (successful) business. You would be so much better positioned to discuss business.

4jycnm.jpg


This is more "heavy is the head that wears the crown" bullshit. "You peasants don't understand how hard it is for the Lord to manage his holdings".

The funny part about this poor small business owner nonsense is, both he and the burger flipper are eventually going to have their lives completely destroyed by Private Equity. You have a totally delusional notion of what capitalism actually looks like in the Real World in 2025.

If he would just just cease espousing about things he doesn't have any experience with (running a business).

Milton Friedman never ran a business, but the entire Western world made his fuckin' dumbass ideas the operating system for their economies.
 

macbill

Oh No! Mr macbill!!
Staff member
 

Bazinga

Well-Known Member
You,re spot on about Milton Friedman. In undergraduate school he was a hot study. Widely accepted and quoted. But I think you made my point. Wolff is no different. I'll address the rest later.
 
Bazinga,
  • Haha
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Bazinga

Well-Known Member
I think we've beat this horse to death about 20 time over. If it's okay with you, after you respond, I'd like to turn to a fresh topic.


You said:

The business owner doesn't make the burgers, didn't raise the cows, didn't slaughter the cows, didn't build the physical restaurant. Workers did.

I'm not sure what the mention of the entourage means. I assume that you don't mean they are also partners.

You said:

You want me to feel bad for the capitalist because it's so HARD to figure out how to leech a little more for themselves off of other people doing actual work.

With respect to very small companies and larger small companies (sales around $100 million - 125 or so employees) I can tell you that is not happening. Over 50 years I've met with many business owners, Board of Director, sat (more like slept) on various Boards. Usually what is discussed (not necessary in this order) is current financial status, cash flow, market share, inventory levels, addressing competition, whether old equipment needs to be retired, purchasing new equipment, upcoming changes in our market, training including sexual conduct and harassment classes, making sure we are in compliance with all federal and state requirements, and many many more. Never in 50 years have I ever heard a board member or owner bring up ways to "leech" our employees. Never. Never. That would be a business killer.

You said:
Now some disgusting low life in a business may want to do this. If he lowers pay employee satisfaction goes down the drain. This hurts the company. This is rare in the business segment we are talking about. Also the company will lose employees as they will move to a company that pays better. It costs between $1,200 to $1,500 just to train new employees (the actual cost depends on the nature of the business). Smart businesses know this. Changing jobs happens all the time particularly with the younger generation. Some change jobs many many times in their work life. You don't think corporate executives and bosses work? Sure, some don't but most do. A lot of times the boss is hands on and will micromanage much to the chagrin of the employees. Most bosses watch over the business as if it were their child. If I was still actively working I'd take you with me for a couple days. I'd even buy you lunch !!

You said:
I understand you prefer authoritarianism. There are several meanings of this word. I am unable to agree or disagree with you on this one because I don't know what you mean.

And saying that I prefer authoritarianism is UDDERLY ridiculous. And I'm going to MILK this for what's worth. Alright, I'll MOOve along. Hey you brought the cow into the conversation.

You said:
In a collectively owned operation, they wouldn't be an "employee" they'd be a co-owner so your question doesn't make sense. I think this is your main confusion.

Well, you're right as I am confused!! Help me this. The company made no profit so the co-owner (flipper) won't receive compensation? By the way that would be illegal in today's capitalistic environment. My question makes perfect sense as I asked what I just asked again (how much do we pay the flipper). How is the flipper supposed to pay his bills, buy food (well I guess he could eat the burgers), etc. Please confirm that in this socialistic example the flipper doesn't get paid because as a "partner" he shares the loss.


You said:
This is more "heavy is the head that wears the crown" bullshit. "You peasants don't understand how hard it is for the Lord to manage his holdings

I am surprised you used this quote because it is accurate. Here is the what the quote means:
The phrase "heavy is the head that wears the crown" signifies that those in positions of leadership or power bear a significant burden of responsibility and face numerous challenges. It suggests that while the outward appearance of leadership might seem glamorous or enviable, the reality involves constant pressure, difficult decisions, and the weight of expectations from others. This is an accurate statement. Idon't where the yellow line came from I don't know how to remove it.

This is so true. Again 50 years of experience. If you don't believe what the quote says indicates my assumption suspicions that you in fact never owned a business, ran a business, and are basically clueless in business operations. Now with socialism I think you are knowledgeable and much than me. Before you get angry remember you said I prefer authoritarianism. You made an assumption (of course you maybe right but I highly doubt it). My assumption is no less valuable than yours. I cannot repair a refrigerator, I cannot repair a dishwasher, I cannot not repair a HVAC unit. The difference between us is I freely admit I know nothing about these appliances (well actually I know how to turn the dishwasher on) while you pretend to be expert in business operations. I'm sorry - still love you - and I owe you a cup of coffee !!

I always have one last thing. I don't like posting my resume online. One reason why is when some folks realize the level of education the exclaim "Oh you're a college boy - so you know everything". in a condescending tone. However I have already stated that I have been educated to Doctoral level, have 50 years of business practice, teaching, and consulting. What I did not mention and I will now is that among everything else I am a CPA and hold a Masters Degree in Tax Law. So yes you can say I am an authority on these matters. You're really not going to pay the flipper?
 
Bazinga,
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Rodney

Well-Known Member
I said

Wall of txt incoming

You said

Can you elaborate please?

:D

So in the UK they decided to U turn on cutting benefits to disabled people but this will mean higher taxes probably soon. Maybe if they managed the billions they get in taxes each year things like this would not be happening.

We borrowed so much in the past that the interest on this is 104 billion per year

 
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CANtalk

Well-Known Member

Trump branded, browbeat and prevailed. But his big bill may come at a political cost​


MTG: I’m Introducing A Bill To Ban Weather Control Because God Didn’t Create The Deadly Floods In Texas​


:peace: :leaf:
 

florduh

Well-Known Member
How is the flipper supposed to pay his bills, buy food (well I guess he could eat the burgers), etc.

You're Mr. FancyBusinessMan, but you don't know how startups work?

Also, the United Socialist States of America would have a proper safety net. Nobody would starve or go homeless. Even if they, inexplicably, started a business without a plan to feed themselves before it produces enough revenue to support them.
FlsJrTx.png


If he lowers pay employee satisfaction goes down the drain. This hurts the company. This is rare in the business segment we are talking about.

You mean the food and beverage segment? Like I said, you have a delusional view of capitalism. I know you don't think much of burger flippers. But they can't afford to rent their own tiny apartment in any major metro area in this country. I think that's disgusting.

And that's the rub. I'd have less of a problem with capitalism if every single person who worked 40 hours per week could afford to live with dignity.

Honestly, Bazinga... I want to teach you about capitalism, but not through a book. I want to take away all of your money and all of your property and stick your ass in an Amazon Gulag. Go see what capitalism actually looks like in 2025.



By the way Amazon treats their employees like absolute shit, up to and including killing them. And they're running circles around their competition. Because capitalism incentivizes barbarity.

If it's okay with you, after you respond, I'd like to turn to a fresh topic.

Bazinga, this thread is for Interesting Articles and Stuff. That's what we're supposed to post and discuss here. Like this interesting video about your favorite State sponsor of terrorism:

 

Bazinga

Well-Known Member
I feel the same way as you do about the bombing and death going on in Gaza. I've previously stated that even 1 death is too many. I've previously stated that I wish there was a 2 state solution where people may live in peace. I don't know why the Gazans didn't accept the proposal when offered. I wish that Hamas didn`t commit the atrocities at the music festival. The Israelis aren`t going to leave the area and the Gazans should not be forced to leave either. Im not sure they will ever reach peace.

I emphatically stated that my post was related to smaller businesses. I was perfectly clear even specifying the the revenue level and number of employees. I have no, or very little, experience with the huge corporations such as Amazon. I do purchase from them. Would you explain how Amazon is killing people. I hadn`t heard about this.

BTW I started with no money. I was raised by a single mom who was a high school dropout. There were 3 of us kids. She never drove a car. Took 2 busses to get to her job at a department store to sell pocketbook and other soft goods. My dad died in his forties leaving no life insurance. Prior to his death he sold shoes. I commenced work at the age of 9. I sold flower seeds door to door. I also sold magazines door to door. I did pretty well, not because I was a good salesperson, but on count of the neighbors knowing our situation and wanting to help. Frankly, I hadn't a clue what I was doing. A couple years later I landed what I thought was a high paying job delivering newspapers earning 5 dollars a week. I was rich !! I was so small and skinny as a child I was unable to lift and carry the heavy newspapers. So I would deliver some papers, return to get more and resume delivering them again. At the same time my uncle gave me his old lawn mover and in the summer I mowed lawns. They were really small lawns as we lived in a row home in the city. Mostly getting about 50 cents a lawn. Sometimes nice folks would give me a dollar. Thought I had hit the jackpot. During the winter I shoveled snow. Tough job to do because of my physical structure but I did okay. I don't remember where I got the shovel from. At the age of 16 I got a job flipping hamburgers making $1.10 an hour. I member the place well. It was called Burger Chef. We had additional tasks to do such as garbage collection and removal and general janitorial duties. This was a part time job. Soon after I took a 2nd part time job as a waiter. I don't remember what I got paid. It wasn't much as we survived on tips. My grades in school weren't very good as I was very tired. Just before reaching the age of 17 and using the money that I had earned I bought a car for $200. Probably wasn't even worth that much but at 17 I didn't know any better. Now I whenever I could I would take my mother to and from work, the grocery store, doctors appointments, etc. I was quickly disapointed because now I had to work even harder to be able to pay for car insurance and gas. I attended community college. I paid for it. Eventually I transferred to a 4 year college which again I paid for. While most of my friends were enjoying their high school and college experience by partying, going to sporting events, etc. I was still working 2 jobs. Advanced education was paid by my employer as part of my compensation.

As a young person I had to live with continued mistreatment by bosses particularly by the hamburger joint. I was sick of it and wanted better so that's why I attended college. I was the 1st one in my family to m attend college. One thing I wanted badly was a windows air conditioner as our row home was sweltering in the summer.

So if you really want to take away my money and property go right ahead. Doesn't scare me. I've lived through it before and survived (and thrived). I'm a lot older now but up to the challenge. I didn't quit then and wouldn't quit now. Didn't need a sociaistic hand out because capitalism and personal drive allowed me secure the American dream. You can call me a" fancybysinessman". Most would and call a me a successful business man. And I worked hard as hell to get there. I am so very pleased that I been able to help students learn, grow businesses, and more.
 

florduh

Well-Known Member
Didn't need a sociaistic hand out because capitalism and personal drive allowed me secure the American dream.

LOL. You are a white boomer. Our entire fucking country was a "socialist handout" for you in your youth. Utter delusion.


I attended community college. I paid for it. Eventually I transferred to a 4 year college which again I paid for.

Oh thanks for reminding me. I'm shredding your degrees too. Go pay for a college education today on $14/hour while supporting yourself. That's the equivalent of $1.60/hour from when you were a kid.

Public universities were affordable when you were young entirely due to "socialist handouts". Your best friend Ronnie put an end to that.

 
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