Vaporizers To Be Banned In US Mail

Gunky

Well-Known Member
I like to look at the cup as half full. The bill still hasn't passed yet. It was actually rejected by the Republicans.
The repubs are actually ok with the covid "stimulus" and the rest of the omnibus spending bill it is now part of. They are voting for that. What they refused today was a separate measure to bring the stimulus checks up from $600 to $2000 that Nancy Pelosi brought up for a vote by acclamation (unanimous voice vote), taking up Trump on his $2000 suggestion. At the moment it is unclear if Trump will veto the spending bill (which contains the covid stuff folded in with a lot of other stuff, including vape mail prohibition - and without which we have a government shutdown).
 
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Gunky,

blackstone

Well-Known Member
The law basically makes it really hard to sell "Electronic Nicotine Delivery Systems"

So the first thing you need to do is look at the definition of "Electronic Nicotine Delivery Systems"


So the question now centers on what an "aerosolized solution" means. The law does not define "solution". So then we'll have to turn to generally accepted meanings and according to Webster "solution" means

Okay so this looks good for Dry herb vape devices. Dried flower is clearly not a solution. Sure when you heat it, it creates an aerosol, BUT the source of the aerosol is NOT a solution.

So then we have to move on to dabs. This is big more complex. If you've added terpenes you've created a solution. But lets start with heat-pressed rosin (from dry herb or dry sift) either way it's hard to call this a solution.

To me it seems dry herb vaporizers should be in the clear, however those that advertise as dual-use concentrate devices might have a problem since you CAN put a solution in there and aerosolize it. That would be a terrible stretch of the term Electronic Nicotine Delivery Systems, but in general Government HEALTH regulators are terrible.

But what about distillate(mail order D8 and CBD stores)? If the residual solvents have been completely removed, I guess it's possible distillate could escape this definition, but once again if you add terpenes, I think you're screwed. But then again if you are only selling syringes, as opposed to vape carts, you might avoid this definition.

What we need is a push from Big Cannabis to get a rules "clarification" exempting devices primarily intended dry herbs. But it seems pretty hopeless right now for ModBoxes. I'm stocking up on a few more Ravages.

May it please the court...
The law doesn't saw "aerosols". Sure dry herb vaporizers create an aerosol. BUT the source of the aerosol is not a solution. The law bans devices that aerosolize solutions. The mighty or tera aerosolize dry herb. I'm seeing here that the lawmakers are going after things that hold liquids. If I was S&B's lawyer that's the argument I would make. I doubt the lawmakers even know what a dry herb vaporizer is. They are concerned with kids getting sneakable liquid-filled pens that don't smell like anything. Dry herb vapes are not the target this time. We'll either need a clarification from the FDA, and if they decide the wrong way, hopefully Boundless or S&B can take up the issue with a friendly judge in the 9th Circuit


even this article says nothing about dry herb vapes, it's all about liquids and oils

General advice, don't read the headline ... read the law. Remember everything that's not explicitly prohibited is legal, and I see nothing in the legislative intent to say that dry herb vapes should be included. If they want to included things that aerosolize dry herbs, why did they explicitly saw devices that "aerosolize solutions"...

Btw Trump is threatening a veto, because now he say $600 is not enough... he wants $2000. While I think that's awesome, I kind of feel like maybe that's something he should have told Mitch McConnell like a month ago.....
There is also a possibility that by "aerolized solution", they may be actually referring to the vapor itself, where e-liquid (or any other substance) is the solute, and air is the solvent.
As solutions can involve solids, liquids and gases in various combinations and are not limited to just liquids.

—The term ‘electronic nicotine delivery system’— ‘‘(A) means any electronic device that, through an aerosolized solution, delivers nicotine, flavor, or any other substance to the user inhaling from the device"

Edit- additionally, the trichomes on flower and therefore kief, other concentrates and reclaim liquefy readily when heated.
 
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arb

Semi shaved ape
Seems obvious that cannabis vaporizer are indeed included. The wording makes that very clear if they meant e-liquids they would have said that specifically.The wording does not seem vague to me at all.........A clear across the board mail ban.
I don't see where adapters or glass is mentioned just vaporizer of all types?
 
arb,

vaporculture

Well-Known Member
While I can see how this language would apply to many vaporizers, it doesn't appear to apply to all. Non-electronic vaporizers would seem to be spared even with an expansive reading of the text.
 

floribud

Well-Known Member
A
Seems obvious that cannabis vaporizer are indeed included. The wording makes that very clear if they meant e-liquids they would have said that specifically.The wording does not seem vague to me at all.........A clear across the board mail ban.
I don't see where adapters or glass is mentioned just vaporizer of all types?

It is a clear "across the board" ban on things that "aerosolize solutions". That seems pretty clear to me that they are talking about liquids. Remember this whole things is about kids Juuling at school. They got lucky that black market cart makers started putting vitamin in carts and kill a few kids, so now they can get their agenda through. Its pretty much like an episode of Veep... just a bunch of idiots.
 

Kins

Well-Known Member
A


It is a clear "across the board" ban on things that "aerosolize solutions". That seems pretty clear to me that they are talking about liquids. Remember this whole things is about kids Juuling at school. They got lucky that black market cart makers started putting vitamin in carts and kill a few kids, so now they can get their agenda through. Its pretty much like an episode of Veep... just a bunch of idiots.

It's not gonna be your understanding of the bill. That won't help. That's why they make the bill so complicated. It still didn't even go threw and they are thinking of ditching it for a smaller bill, no one actually read the whole thing seeing it's over 900 pages. Kind of a moot point anyway for now because the bill is in limbo....
 

Farid

Well-Known Member
The vapor from dry herb vaporizers is certainly an aerosol.

While we generally think of solutions as being liquid, there are also solid solutions. I can easily see how trichomes suspended in a vegetable matrix could be considered a solution in this context.
 

Gunky

Well-Known Member
The bill passed. It was sent to Trump, who is thinking about it.

mod note: off-topic political content removed
 
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floribud

Well-Known Member
The vapor from dry herb vaporizers is certainly an aerosol.

While we generally think of solutions as being liquid, there are also solid solutions. I can easily see how trichomes suspended in a vegetable matrix could be considered a solution in this context.
If the government were to bring a plant into a courtroom and tell the judge the plant is actually a "solution", 98% certain the judge is kicking that person out of the court.

As I've said before in the first post. Manufacturers should be able to get clarification on this issue through whatever agency is assigned oversite of the law. If the agency says dry herb vaporizers are targeted, the manufacturer can go to courts and sue the agency before the agency takes enforcement action.
 

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
If the government were to bring a plant into a courtroom and tell the judge the plant is actually a "solution", 98% certain the judge is kicking that person out of the court.
If it were truly that easy why can't we even get a hearing for a schedule 1 reform?

As I've said before in the first post. Manufacturers should be able to get clarification on this issue through whatever agency is assigned oversite of the law. If the agency says dry herb vaporizers are targeted, the manufacturer can go to courts and sue the agency before the agency takes enforcement action.

S&B and Pax couldn't even get their iPhone app reinstated so I'm not as convinced they have as much lobbying power as we might expect. If the stance by Big Tech persists, that even vaporizer phone applications are dangerous, I think that could present a serious uphill battle of being "guilty by association." But I agree with your premise that it would be great to receive clarification, I can't help but feel the open ended, subjective legal drafting was intentional.
 

arb

Semi shaved ape
The wording plainly states e-hookah and advanced refillable personal vaporizer amongst others......that will be what we are classified as cuz that is what we are.
 

Planck

believes in Dog
The intent was to target nicotine delivery systems that are not controlled by big tobacco.
This is a direct result of the Master Settlement Agreement (gov and big tobacco) revenue to states falling short of expectations. Plus the essentially open source vape industry destroying offerings from pharm and tobacco in the marketplace. They want their monopoly back.

I guess we'll see what happens.
 
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Gunky

Well-Known Member
The bill passed. It was sent to Trump, who is thinking about it.

mod note: off-topic political content removed
Wait a minute, in a thread chock full of political stuff - almost nothing but - you choose to edit out only my inoffensive post clarifying the current situation, which others brought up and portrayed incorrectly? Wtf? I wouldn't mind if this were applied equally to everyone; singling me out like this is supreme bullshit.
 

arb

Semi shaved ape
Wait a minute, in a thread chock full of political stuff - almost nothing but - you choose to edit out only my inoffensive post clarifying the current situation, which others brought up and portrayed incorrectly? Wtf? I wouldn't mind if this were applied equally to everyone; singling me out like this is supreme bullshit.
You are being treated exactly like you have demanded others be treated.
You don't seem to like being"sanctioned"much?
🙄
 
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Gunky

Well-Known Member
You are being treated exactly like you have demanded others be treated.
You don't seem to like being"sanctioned"much?
🙄
Let me guess: you complained? You were unhappy with what I said - which was indisputable truth, and got it suppressed. And yes, I think when people post misinformation about mask wearing which could potentially cause harm or death they should be sanctioned.
 

arb

Semi shaved ape
Let me guess: you complained? You were unhappy with what I said - which was indisputable truth. And yes, I think when people post misinformation about mask wearing which could potentially cause harm or death they should be sanctioned.
Lolz.......absolutely not.
I don't rage quit when faced with facts.

😆
 
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pakalolo

Toolbag v1.1 (candidate)
Staff member
Wait a minute, in a thread chock full of political stuff - almost nothing but - you choose to edit out only my inoffensive post clarifying the current situation, which others brought up and portrayed incorrectly? Wtf? I wouldn't mind if this were applied equally to everyone; singling me out like this is supreme bullshit.

First, as you well know, comments on moderator actions are supposed to be kept to PMs. Since it's the season and because I did not read the rest of this thread until now, I'll refrain from handing out a warning point. You should think before you post, however, and whether you make it public or private you might try to be more diplomatic.

I have just deleted 10 posts (most of them from last July) that were inappropriate for this thread. If one of your posts was removed and you want to object, don't be @Gunky and take a chance on a warning point.
 

DJ Colonel Corn

The Vapor Ninja
I like to look at the cup as half full. The bill still hasn't passed yet. It was actually rejected by the Republicans.
Yes, indeed, but not on the grounds that it contained ridiculous additions that have nothing to do with Covid.
Also, this just shows where their intention lies, there's also a seperate senate bill that started this thread about banning vape mail from USPS.

It's awful that we as ex-smokers will probably see the option of vaping disappear in the U.S. sometime soon, and that this will also affect the cannabis vaping industry most likely, particularly concerning electronic "mods" designed for both dry cannabis and liquid cannabis oils.

The wise move is to pay attention closely to this.
 
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DJ Colonel Corn

The Vapor Ninja
Yep
USPS, within 120 days, will no longer be able to ship ANY 'vape' supplies/materials/items.

Also, there will be added fees and complex forms to fill out for those that wish to continue sending 'vape' stuff via other shipment companies, such as UPS, or FedEx, or DHL.....

This article doesn't have much vape info, but it explains some of the other problems with the bill:

https://www.rollcall.com/2020/12/27/trump-signs-massive-omnibus-spending-coronavirus-relief-package/

So... this is very unfortunate for ALL types of vaping, and it's a shame that the difference between dry cannabis vaping or vaping cannabis oils, and 'ecig' systems, will most likely not be observed.

There was a vape-mail-ban scare a few years ago, and many vape companies changed the name of their company so as not to include the word 'vape' or 'vaping'. I wonder exactly HOW usps will 'detect' vape mail.

EDIT:
Here's an article explaining this whole 'vape' deal a bit more clearly:
https://vaping360.com/vape-news/107649/congress-will-ban-vape-mail-force-online-sellers-into-the-pact-act/

Quote from the article:
“As of March 1, 2021, FedEx will begin prohibiting electronic cigarettes, vaping liquids, and other vaping products in the FedEx global network,” a spokesperson for the company told Vaping360 last Friday.

Sorry if this ruins your day.
 
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Kins

Well-Known Member
So....companies will ship vapes and vape accessories with a different shipping company.
 
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BrianTL

Westchester, NY
Just another example of creating more laws to make things more restrictive for (mostly) law abiding citizens, when the underlying laws on the books aren't even enforced as intended in the first place...
 
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