Will my views on oil ever change?

[rodders83]

I always wanted to ask this question, Especially to people in the USA. Since i signed up to here i have went from a combusting joint smoking caveman to flower vaping expert in my own area (Locals are hicks) and i have always wondered why the obsession in America with oil? Where i live in Northern Europe an ounce by current conversion rates comes out to 28g = $419 USD.

Now before when i looked at people dabbing clouds and failing to hold it i was basically under the impression that they were not only combusting and smoking, They were wasting a product that to get an ounce would probably require anything from 10-13 ounces of bud? Where is the sense in it am i missing something? Is there an amazing high or taste that flower or kief does not offer? Is this just a bigger and better trend that America has always had on Europe? From massive gas guzzling SUV's to ultra-capitalism when i look at it in ignorance this is what comes to mind.

Obviously i have never tried a product above kief, But when i vape it are we not extracting the same trich head? The taste is fantastic and because i have never smoked anything but flower a decent scoop of kief can and has buckled my knees on several occasions. The taste is also better than the bud and honestly i am quite happy with the luxury kief high for special occasions. I used to be the same when i would drink alcohol which i no longer do i would hear friends boasting about spending a fortune on a night out while i could probably get wasted on 1/10th of the money they spend. All because thier tolerance levels have become so high and i have heard of examples from this on oil too. Like when i read an article on a Moroccan style cafe in the USA they were talking about the guy who took dab after dab after dab at the party while some of the newbies had to go for air after a large dab, And they stated quite clearly an old saying you are not going to get any higher, But your supply is going to get lower. There is nothing else above oil either so it sounds like a dead end in tolerance terms.

I can never see this being me, Even if carb capping on lower temps is now thankfully taking over instead of high temp dabbing. So what do people think? I am curious to hear the thoughts of other Europeans also.

 

[TheMasterBlaster]

Oil is too rich for my blood.

 

[Joel W.]

Flower here is $25 for 3.5g and oil is $25 a gram. One oil hit is about like 4 flower hits for me. Oil saves time for one and works differently than flowers for me.

 

[rodders83]

Oil is too rich for my blood.

Hehe i forgot to say also if the yield was one ounce of Rosin per 13 ounces of flower, It would work out at 419x13=5447. Yup an once of rosin would have a street value if caught by the cops of $5447 dollars in your currency

 

[trichome_renaissance]

I think the pro's of vaping oil vs. flowers for me include (but perhaps aren't limited to)

1. Potency (so I don't have to vape as much)
2. Less smell (more discreet)
3. Easy to play off like an e-cig

All of those factors really combine nicely into a way to indulge "on the go" when not at home.

 

[darkrom]

Better flavor better potency smoother faster and generally cheaper (if you have self control ).

I love buds and oil. I use 75%+ buds, but oil is probably the more efficient and smarter option.

To me its like smoke -> vape -> dab. Its just the next evolution. I'll always vape flower, but dabbing is significantly better in many ways.

 

[BuzzDanklin]

@rodders83 Some oil is made from trim leaves and popcorn nugs, so they can turn something that would essentially be waste into something that is in high demand.

 

[herbivore21]

I always wanted to ask this question, Especially to people in the USA. Since i signed up to here i have went from a combusting joint smoking caveman to flower vaping expert in my own area (Locals are hicks) and i have always wondered why the obsession in America with oil? Where i live in Northern Europe an ounce by current conversion rates comes out to 28g = $419 USD.

Now before when i looked at people dabbing clouds and failing to hold it i was basically under the impression that they were not only combusting and smoking, They were wasting a product that to get an ounce would probably require anything from 10-13 ounces of bud? Where is the sense in it am i missing something? Is there an amazing high or taste that flower or kief does not offer? Is this just a bigger and better trend that America has always had on Europe? From massive gas guzzling SUV's to ultra-capitalism when i look at it in ignorance this is what comes to mind.

Obviously i have never tried a product above kief, But when i vape it are we not extracting the same trich head? The taste is fantastic and because i have never smoked anything but flower a decent scoop of kief can and has buckled my knees on several occasions. The taste is also better than the bud and honestly i am quite happy with the luxury kief high for special occasions. I used to be the same when i would drink alcohol which i no longer do i would hear friends boasting about spending a fortune on a night out while i could probably get wasted on 1/10th of the money they spend. All because thier tolerance levels have become so high and i have heard of examples from this on oil too. Like when i read an article on a Moroccan style cafe in the USA they were talking about the guy who took dab after dab after dab at the party while some of the newbies had to go for air after a large dab, And they stated quite clearly an old saying you are not going to get any higher, But your supply is going to get lower. There is nothing else above oil either so it sounds like a dead end in tolerance terms.

I can never see this being me, Even if carb capping on lower temps is now thankfully taking over instead of high temp dabbing. So what do people think? I am curious to hear the thoughts of other Europeans also.

Allow me to weigh in with an experience similar to the OP:

I too originally come from a place where there is no oil about and it is hardly a known quantity. Cannabis is extremely expensive in the location in question and for the most part, terrible.

For me, concentrates were not a matter of cheaper product from a dispensary. They were not an easy thing to learn to make (nowhere to buy any such thing there, not even black market) and it was the most expensive learning experience of my life.

However, the first time I looked into a stainless steel blind coffee filter full of the beautiful golden QWET shatter I'd just made for the first time, I had no idea what I'd stumbled upon and the medical benefit I would receive.

I use cannabis for medical reasons. My first medical need arose as a result of persistent insomnia going back into childhood. Flowers just didn't do the job of getting me to sleep and keeping me asleep. I loved hash though and was fortunate to be able to access some great traditional hashes long before I got into contemporary concentrates.

From then though, I got into vaporizing because the amount of combusting (joints) I was doing was really making my airways feel nasty.

I found that vaping flowers involved prolonged sessions with most vapes. This is anathema to my busy career as a scientist. Eventually I got the sublimator - which for all it's rough edges gave me medically useful hits (notably with hash too).

However, there was still a problem. The Sub gives huge, high temp hits from flowers that really speed up the extraction process. However these same hits were always quite sleepy, due to the degradation byproducts coming off of the inactive plant components of the high quality flowers and traditional hashes that I used at the time. My medical needs also were changing, with much more prominent anxiety problems and depressive illness. I needed different effects as the typical couch-lock results of my sub were just not helpful except at night. As well, I still found that flowers in the sub would not keep me asleep at night (hash in the sub did though ).

At this time, I finally tried my hands at concentrates.

To me, to cut a long post much shorter concentrates have teh following beneficial properties:

1. Dabbing is not combustion. If your concentrates contain something that can combust at dabbing temps, you should not be dabbing them. Clean, contaminant free concentrates (and especially dewaxed absolutes) can produce a vapor that feels almost as effortless as breathing air! It is far less harsh on the throat than vaping flowers IME (especially than convection vaping flowers!).

I do concede we can get actives recondensing in the airways and these can be an irritant, but on the whole I breath much better since moving wholly to dabbing of absolutes, before moving to the rosin and full melt bubble (granted these are harsher on the throat than dewaxed absolutes due to lipids and waxes) that I use today.

2. Concentrates (of course depending on the kind of extract) can deliver a much clearer effect than flowers. Uplifting effects are more pronounced and couchlock/debilitation is minimized (this is with high quality, high terp/cannabinoid extracts which are all that I dab - lower quality, more contaminant filled extracts will provide plenty of couchlock/debilitation still, potentially more than flowers even depending on how they are processed!)

3. Less filler, more illness-killer. I don't want the inactive plant material, I want the parts of the plant that are medically beneficial to me. Concentrates give me this option.

4. Less time spent hitting the bong, more time spent living my life! Concentrates give lasting effects in very small doses. There is no need to worry about a portable when I duck out for the evening - I can just have enough dabs before I leave to see me through. With flowers, a couple hours would pass and the effects would be gone.

5. So much better taste (so, so much better, cannot stress this enough! First time I tried full melt was the last time I vaped flowers - I've sold all my flower vapes but one and even my flower rig now! I will concede that there are loads of shitty tasting and poorly made concentrates out there that do not meet this description - but I ain't dabbing any of that, I make my own medicine!

6. Easier to get many different kinds of effects from the same flowers just by making different kinds of extracts. I can make Rosin, QWET, QWISO, Full Melt Bubble hash, dry ice hash, dry sift. I can decarb, I can degrade even further to get higher CBN for sleep. I can preserve the terps as much as possible and get better taste and more of the terpene related effects of the varieties I work with.

7. Reduced usage. Scoff all you like, but I was smoking an ounce a week or flower, and even after changing to vaping (and an initial dip in use) and getting used to it could still vape this amount in a week. With concentrates, the most I could ever dab in a week would be a gram or 2. This equates to well under half my past consumption with flowers. Much cheaper, much less vapor inhaled from inactive materials.

I know plenty of Americans that dab far more than I do, including recreational users. I am aware that tolerance can absolutely skyrocket in these cases, but I have used predominately/only concentrates for coming on 2 years now and have never, ever had such an issue.

I would have to dab 4-5 grams a week to match what I was consuming in flowers before I went to oils, much more still if I were to exceed my past usage levels/tolerance. Neither of these scenarios has ever happened.

I look at flowers the way a Vineyard owner looks at grapes now. Unprocessed work.

I have no problem with people using flowers of course and would defend each of your rights to use them to the death (hopefully it doesn't come to that though!). Still, concentrates are all that I am interested in personally for the above reasons and more.

 

[weenstoned]

Definitely have to agree with the people who are talking about self-control, I have been dabbing for years (exclusively for maybe 1-2) and still never usually dab anything larger than a grain of rice and often smaller. Not everyone is dabbing globs that get half sucked down the stem of the nail. If anything I find it easier to control my tolerance while dabbing as I usually just leave the stopwatch app on my phone running after I have taken a dab so I can see how long it has been since my last one. That plus actually paying attention to your body and whether or not you're actually still medicated instead of just taking another dab you don't actually need.

I kinda view flowers as like if you bought gasoline and it was watered down 80-90%. There's way better things to taste than plants.

 

[herbivore21]

Definitely have to agree with the people who are talking about self-control, I have been dabbing for years (exclusively for maybe 1-2) and still never usually dab anything larger than a grain of rice and often smaller. Not everyone is dabbing globs that get half sucked down the stem of the nail. If anything I find it easier to control my tolerance while dabbing as I usually just leave the stopwatch app on my phone running after I have taken a dab so I can see how long it has been since my last one. That plus actually paying attention to your body and whether or not you're actually still medicated instead of just taking another dab you don't actually need.

I kinda view flowers as like if you bought gasoline and it was watered down 80-90%. There's way better things to taste than plants.

It's funny man, for all the times we may have disagreed, we really do consume cannabis quite similarly!

I (no doubt like many of you) also cringe when watching people let half of their dab boil into the air or melt but not quite boil into the intake of their rig!

 

[weenstoned]

It's funny man, for all the times we may have disagreed, we really do consume cannabis quite similarly!

I (no doubt like many of you) also cringe when watching people let half of their dab boil into the air or melt but not quite boil into the intake of their rig!

LOL ya, thinking man that snake could last me a week.

 

[herbivore21]

LOL ya, thinking man that snake could last me a week.

oh man there are so many videos where I've found myself saying this out aloud as I watch! lol

 

[weenstoned]

oh man there are so many videos where I've found myself saying this out aloud as I watch! lol

I would say the thing that bothers me most is how few people actually have iron lungs. They can't even make it through the entire instagram video length before they are coughing and it is just going out into the air. Being there while oil vaporizes near you does not equal taking a dab.

 

[Danksta]

Lot of good posts to read here.

I mainly just use oil now for many of the same reasons others have pointed out.

I'm getting higher and spending LESS now weekly. I didn't expect that.

 

[zor]

I like to cook, and when I do I vastly prefer working with as many basic ingredients as possible. I could go and get a premade sauce to make my stir fry tasty but I'd rather make that myself so I know what's going into it. I learn more about cooking, learn more about my ingredients, and it makes the cooking and eating process more satisfying for me (until I fuck it up).

At this point, with the concentrates I've found in MA, I have relatively little reason to worry that I'm getting concentrates that aren't properly purged or haven't been prepared well, although it has happened before. I still prefer flowers for a number of reasons, the main one ties in with the metaphor above; I prefer having the original product as opposed to something more refined, knowing full well that I can refine/extract/prepare it as a concentrate should I want to.

Over the past year wherein I've had the opportunity to experiment and try many different shatters, waxes, and extracts I've found myself returning to and enjoying flowers a lot. There's more variety readily available, and more often than not I've enjoyed the flavors over concentrates. That said, smooth shatter hits wreak considerably less havoc on my throat and lungs than vaping buds, and in the dry winter months in New England this is really, really nice! Dabbing on a quartz banger is fun and satisfying, too.

Bah, I love both.

 

[darkrom]

Not saying you should change your ways. If you like your edibles then they are just perfect. Everything you say is 100% fine and reasonable.

That being said know how many professional cannabis companies cook with buds vs extracts? Zero I bet. Harder to work with and dose properly. But if you are doing what you like now don't change it by any means. Just had to point it out because I find it interesting. They all seem to prefer oil or bubble hash or dry sift at least. Less change in flavor perhaps idk, I can barely grill chicken. Just throwing it out there for discussion.

ATG sells decarboxylated high THC oil, and a different variety of high cbd oil. When I get some money I'm going to get the high cbd oil and melt it into a cjoclate bar and DIY cbd infused Hersheys. Its super expensive but its like 60-70% cbd. I think a gram is $120-150 if I recall. I'm too lazy to do the math but I'm wondering if I can get good doses per "brick" for one or 2 bars. I really wonder if it would help some of my medical issues, but if not I'll be pissed to waste that $

I recently managed to get my hands on a cheeba chew pure cbd. It tastes like dog shit. But the one bite I had seemed to help my pain but who knows could be placebo until I test more.

It seems like the high cbd oil is the way to go for edibles at least for me. I could only buy 8th of the high cbd flower, if its even in stock. Demand is too high. Yet I can get a TON of cbd if I want thanks to the availability of oil.

Pros and cons to both. I don't think I'll ever be just flower OR just oil again. I like both very much.

Also if you haven't tried rosin, you haven't tried concentrates haha. I love that stuff.

 

[Chill Dude]

To me, to cut a long post much shorter concentrates have teh following beneficial properties:

1. Dabbing is not combustion. If your concentrates contain something that can combust at dabbing temps, you should not be dabbing them. Clean, contaminant free concentrates (and especially dewaxed absolutes) can produce a vapor that feels almost as effortless as breathing air! It is far less harsh on the throat than vaping flowers IME (especially than convection vaping flowers!).

I do concede we can get actives recondensing in the airways and these can be an irritant, but on the whole I breath much better since moving wholly to dabbing of absolutes, before moving to the rosin and full melt bubble (granted these are harsher on the throat than dewaxed absolutes due to lipids and waxes) that I use today.

2. Concentrates (of course depending on the kind of extract) can deliver a much clearer effect than flowers. Uplifting effects are more pronounced and couchlock/debilitation is minimized (this is with high quality, high terp/cannabinoid extracts which are all that I dab - lower quality, more contaminant filled extracts will provide plenty of couchlock/debilitation still, potentially more than flowers even depending on how they are processed!)

3. Less filler, more illness-killer. I don't want the inactive plant material, I want the parts of the plant that are medically beneficial to me. Concentrates give me this option.

4. Less time spent hitting the bong, more time spent living my life! Concentrates give lasting effects in very small doses. There is no need to worry about a portable when I duck out for the evening - I can just have enough dabs before I leave to see me through. With flowers, a couple hours would pass and the effects would be gone.

5. So much better taste (so, so much better, cannot stress this enough! First time I tried full melt was the last time I vaped flowers - I've sold all my flower vapes but one and even my flower rig now! I will concede that there are loads of shitty tasting and poorly made concentrates out there that do not meet this description - but I ain't dabbing any of that, I make my own medicine!

6. Easier to get many different kinds of effects from the same flowers just by making different kinds of extracts. I can make Rosin, QWET, QWISO, Full Melt Bubble hash, dry ice hash, dry sift. I can decarb, I can degrade even further to get higher CBN for sleep. I can preserve the terps as much as possible and get better taste and more of the terpene related effects of the varieties I work with.

7. Reduced usage. Scoff all you like, but I was smoking an ounce a week or flower, and even after changing to vaping (and an initial dip in use) and getting used to it could still vape this amount in a week. With concentrates, the most I could ever dab in a week would be a gram or 2. This equates to well under half my past consumption with flowers. Much cheaper, much less vapor inhaled from inactive materials.

I know plenty of Americans that dab far more than I do, including recreational users. I am aware that tolerance can absolutely skyrocket in these cases, but I have used predominately/only concentrates for coming on 2 years now and have never, ever had such an issue.

I would have to dab 4-5 grams a week to match what I was consuming in flowers before I went to oils, much more still if I were to exceed my past usage levels/tolerance. Neither of these scenarios has ever happened.
.

I too have come to the conclusion that concentrates are the best for my needs for many of the reasons you posted. I'm a moderate user like you.. Maybe 5 or 6 grams per month. It's much less harsh on the throat than flowers.. I'd rather take a .07g dab with little or no coughing and get immediately and intensely medicated than huff and puff on a .2g load of bud for like 20 minutes and 15 or so hits. Vaping that much flowers irritates and dries out my throat and bronchial passages.. I just feel better after my dab!

I've also noticed that the high is cleaner with less couch lock. And as far as health is concerned, I feel the less inhales the better.

I agree with you that a concentrate only diet doesn't necessarily lead to increased tolerance. As long as your dosing is rather consistent, your tolerance should remain virtually the same. Kind of like 2 shots of tequila would produce the same effect as two American mainstream beers.

It took me a while to get th the point that I was 100% sold on concentrates. Now I'm never turning back

 

[herbivore21]

I too have come to the conclusion that concentrates are the best for my needs for many of the reasons you posted. I'm a moderate user like you.. Maybe 5 or 6 grams per month. It's much less harsh on the throat than flowers.. I'd rather take a .07g dab with little or no coughing and get immediately and intensely medicated than huff and puff on a .2g load of bud for like 20 minutes and 15 or so hits. Vaping that much flowers irritates and dries out my throat and bronchial passages.. I just feel better after my dab!

I've also noticed that the high is cleaner with less couch lock. And as far as health is concerned, I feel the less inhales the better.

I agree with you that a concentrate only diet doesn't necessarily lead to increased tolerance. As long as your dosing is rather consistent, your tolerance should remain virtually the same. Kind of like 2 shots of tequila would produce the same effect as two American mainstream beers.

It took me a while to get th the point that I was 100% sold on concentrates. Now I'm never turning back

It sure does sound like you and I also use cannabis very similarly bro

I think the 2 tequila shots being the same alcohol volume as 2 mainstream beers is a good analogy. I would prefer to take that .2g of flower unground, squish it into rosin and dab it rather than put that same .2g ground into a flower vape and huff and puff as you say.

I also agree fully that less inhalation and especially less overall volume of vapor with the highest possible volume of actives is best generally speaking.

With the next generation of concentrates being made now, we're really starting to be able to tailor the effects of cannabis derivatives to our personal needs far beyond what we could ever do with flowers and vaporizers. Still, some of these techniques could also be applied to flowers as well.

For example, no reason why our flower loving friends couldn't take their favorite nugs and add some cannabis derived terpenes for example and try to change the effect to suit their own needs too

In this sense, concentrates and isolates could actually be used to make lesser quality flowers better too! Same goes for lesser quality concentrates. Lately, I've been focusing my extraction efforts at finding ways to make absolutely every last bit of actives in my starting material not just useful, but enjoyable and tasty too. It sure pays to find ways to polish up those latter solvent runs or even hash runs which have more contaminant etc in them

There's also folks like my bro @Hashtag46&2 who mix concentrates with flowers in convection vapes to get something in-between the effects of using either one alone

Concentrates don't need to be the end of flowers, they could also be used to make them better and more medically useful

 

[rodders83]

There's also folks like my bro @Hashtag46&2 who mix concentrates with flowers in convection vapes to get something in-between the effects of using either one alone

Moonrocks? How many of you were ex smokers also? I find i prefer puffing away reminds me off that old habit i really hate taking a hit and putting it down for an hour, Really if i could i would puff puff puff because it somehow feels better.

I smoked for ten years though to be fair.

 

[herbivore21]

Moonrocks? How many of you were ex smokers also? I find i prefer puffing away reminds me off that old habit i really hate taking a hit and putting it down for an hour, Really if i could i would puff puff puff because it somehow feels better.

I smoked for ten years though to be fair.

I smoked for 11 years myself man. Joints too so lots of puffing. Most everybody here was a smoker at one point.

However, it has been a long time since I gave up smoking (originally for vaporizing flowers and less-melty hashes) and I am long past feeling the need to recreate the effects of that habit. Originally I did try to recreate the effects, but once I tried many other ways, I realized that the effects I used to get from puffing on a joint were not what works best for me anyway. Of course, YMMV

 

[Chill Dude]

@rodders83 ive never smoked cigarettes, but I use to smoke a couple joints a day. I personally don't feel the need to replicate the smoking process. I'm more about getting medicated quickly and then moving on to other things. .However, I understand where you're coming from.. A lot of people like to puff away and blow huge clouds of vapor/smoke and have numerous sessions per day. They just like the ritual and all..Whatever floats your boat

Good on you for transitioning to vapor though.. If you're going to indulge on a daily basis, it's just much healthier than smoking..