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Vaping for lower back pain?

Discussion in 'Medical Discussion' started by MinnBobber, May 25, 2014.

  1. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

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    211
    Hi,
    I had been vaping for minor lower back pain/tightness and would start at low temp, then med, then high temp to taste / experience the differences.

    Now I have a bruised lower back vertebrae or disk with bouts of INTENSE SHARP pain.

    ?? Would it be better to go directly to high temp, to extract all the goodness, right away??

    Thanks for any ideas/suggestions.
  2. grokit

    grokit power cosmic

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    Personally my answer is yes.
  3. Deja Vu

    Deja Vu Show compassion to animals

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    In regards to the temperature, working your way up slowly should be fine if what you are aiming to do is extract all of the actives from the herb. It may also calm you down and relax the nerves to slowly work your way up. There is no need to blast the weed at the highest temperature out of desperation for pain relief :p You may also need to look into restorative therapy or homeopathy. Is the pain related to deterioration of the actual disks or is it a pinched nerve?
    The bruising should go down, but that sharp pain may be attributed to nerve damage. MAY be. Nothing to stress about.

    I personally think that all pain is in your head, and it's just a matter of unlatching it from yourself. Do not call it 'my' pain, for it is simply a sensation created in the nerve centres of your brain. Hang in there dude :)

    edit: Also, old pathways created by pain can be re-stimulated, so memories of previous pain may be called up to help make the decision on how to deal with the pain. These memories can increase the sensation of pain or lessen it.
    With this knowledge; it may also be best for you to try Yoga, Pilates, remedial massage, acupuncture, light stretching in the morning or 30 minutes of walking a day. This will train your brain to associate different sensations with the area that you are commonly experiencing 'pain' from. It will make it less intense when the sharp pains occur, and your brain will have another, more pleasant sensation to fall back on to cope with that area of your body.

    Good luck!
    Last edited: May 25, 2014
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  4. Enchantre

    Enchantre A short, pithy statement

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    RICE it... rest, ice, (no) compression (actually, NOT in the back), and elevation (of mind?)

    So, rest, ice 20 mins on/off, and do as much anti-inflammatory things as you can, such as vitamin C, low-temp vaping, eating blueberries.... hope you have seen a doctor?

    getting enough vaped so you don't suffer from the pain, but pay attention to the pain! it may need medical help.
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  5. grokit

    grokit power cosmic

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    Best thing physically is inversion therapy, because gravity's a bitch.
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  6. Deja Vu

    Deja Vu Show compassion to animals

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    Like water aerobics and stuff?
  7. grokit

    grokit power cosmic

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  8. Deja Vu

    Deja Vu Show compassion to animals

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  9. theduckopera

    theduckopera Addicted To Quack

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    Everything Enchantre said, only I'd add that when I get lower back pain (frequently), I find that a simple pillow under the knees while lying flat on my back, or between the knees when lying on my side, does a world of good. More than most other things I've tried.

    Another thing I find really helps, although more for the slow throbbing pain than the intense sharp pain, is to lie on my back, knees up, and then very slowly lift my pelvis a centimetre or two, hold it, very slowly let it down. Repeat a few times. It's a movement from the Feldenkrais Method, albeit the only one I can still remember, but somehow it just helps to relax things a little.

    Good luck! I don't actually know the answer to your temperature question (interested to hear it myself), but I figure when it comes to back pain, every little bit helps...
  10. TriiKLe

    TriiKLe Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    Eating your herbs is a great way to get pain relief.
  11. Deja Vu

    Deja Vu Show compassion to animals

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    What caused the pain, if you don't mind me asking?
  12. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

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    Not sure exactly what caused it. I played in a sports tournament in Amsterdam last week and had 20 intense games in 2 days plus refereeing many games.
    Just before leaving for the tourney , a physical therapist diagnosed that my pelvis points a little to the left so my body/ neck are always twisted slightly to the right, to keep from from walking in a circle to the left :) It also causes my right side pelvis to not have normal space to the ribs.
    I often get lower right back tightness/minor pain and tightness in right side of neck.

    This episode is up several notches on the pain scale. Chiropractor can often adjust me to near normal previously. Not this time. He said either a lower back vertebrae or disk are bruised and this will be longer recovery. He hopes to know this Wednesday which it is. Sitting and then getting up kills me!! I'm typing this standing up.

    I have gone to deep water exercise and that was fabulous, able to move (gently) well beyond what I can do on land. Going again this morning. Not exactly inverted position but probably next best thing??

    Thanks for the help, back later
  13. Quetzalcoatl

    Quetzalcoatl i i i

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    High-CBD/CBN strains really help my pain out, lower back included.
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  14. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, wish I had the option for those strains but only have 2 very high THC choices.
    Chiro appt tomorrow where he hopes to zero in on problem: bruised vertebrae or bruised disc or ??

    May need to get primary Dr to ok MRI, which they are reluctant to do, but would hopefully give a view of what exactly is going on down there.
    Thanks
  15. turk

    turk turk

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    ...I also suffer from lower back pain....when the pain is really acute there really is no respite...in that situation a series of acupuncture appts. is really the only solution ...and this may take a minimum of 10 days...however, after that is over, and in other times, cannabis is a good aid for me...
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  16. Deja Vu

    Deja Vu Show compassion to animals

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    I have chronic neck and shoulder pain, but when I used to smoke up it never helped with the pain (only temporarily, but the pain would eventually get worse due to the slouched posture that I would inevitably end up adopting from being high. Definitely let us know what the issue is when you come back from the doctor because I am personally curious to see how it pans out!
  17. grokit

    grokit power cosmic

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    When my back spasms, I need to try and stay as inactive as possible for a day or three. Kind of like when I get sick and need to rest, vaping helps me to mellow out and stay horizontal better than other remedies do.
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  18. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

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    Dr said lower back disc (flexible donut) is bruised and slightly torn. Said this will be a slow recovery process. Deep water exercise is great for it, but I do avoid the fast/power moves and do at my own smooth pace. Then taking off waist float, and putting a tube floatie under each armpit and just hanging there to "get long" helps too.
    I usually get about 4 hours of heavy duty exercise each day but cannot with this. I have 3 big sports tourneys coming up in July and Aug which are now in doubt. One is to qualify for the 2015 senior olympic games so bummed if I have to miss.

    Cannabis really helped when lower back pain was overuse and tightness but not so much for this, kind of out of it's league. Two weeks ago a physical therapist found that my pelvis points slightly left which caused upper body to always be twisted, not aligned. She gave be some exercises to help straighten pelvis which are now "too much" with this pain.

    Anxious to get moving again...
  19. Deja Vu

    Deja Vu Show compassion to animals

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    Oh my god.. Full on, man. May your recovery be a steady and calm one :) I'd invest in a more medicated strain of bud as well!
  20. Enchantre

    Enchantre A short, pithy statement

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    Seriously, go see a doctor. Preferably a neurologist.

    "slightly torn" disk is a herniated disk, dude. you could end up worse without proper treatment.
  21. momofthegoons

    momofthegoons vapor accessory addict Staff Member

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    @MinnBobber I'm glad to hear that you are doing some aqua therapy. I've found that helps immensely with my lower back pain. Hanging in the deep end, as you described, can give you much needed traction and will give those bruised areas a break for a while.

    Ice is also helpful, alternated with heat. Anti-inflamatories, if you can take them, may help too.

    I'm sure you've probably been to a sports medicine doctor, or some type of ortho since you know what is going on with your back. It is possible an injection might help too.

    As far as vaping, I've found concentrates to help the most. But a good indica, ending with high heat will help too. I've also had a lot of success with making candy out of abv for sleep aid and pain relief. Check out the Cooking with Cannabis section. There are a lot of ideas there for edibles you may be able to use, including capsules.

    Good luck with your healing and I sure hope you are able to participate.
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  22. grokit

    grokit power cosmic

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    Would it be too invasive for a chiro to adjust your pelvis?

    The deep water sounds great, there are many ways to take pressure off/lengthen your spine. Besides water and inversion, many pt's and chiro's have traction-type equipment that will literally stretch you out. It pays to compare the equipment available at different facilities as there are many different types and capabilities.


    He must have had an mri if he knows about his disc?
    What kind of doctor ordered the mri?

    Ime it's either an orthopedic surgeon or chiro/pt.
    Forget about the epidural injections unless you want purely temporary relief.
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  23. Enchantre

    Enchantre A short, pithy statement

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    Well, the way I read it was that the chiro was guessing.

    My hubby had a chiro not catch that he actually had a ruptured disk until almost a month after it happened, when he suddenly blew it the rest of the way out. Chiro guessed that it was just a minor strain.

    So, yeah... read that through my own filters.
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  24. fernand

    fernand Well-Known Member

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    @MinnBobber, FWIW, I've had brief episodes of disabling pain in the lower back for decades. My background's in biomed. As it got much more frequent I had it looked at with several MRIs and some competent consults.

    What's happening in my spine is what happens to a lot of us over the years. Degenerative changes. Spurs form on the bone, they can press on nerves and other structures, the disks get stiffer and weak, sometimes they bulge and press on nerve roots. Collapsed disks also cause bone pressure on the nerve roots that control organs and muscles. Looking at any particular MRI, most MDs would recommend surgery to relieve the compression. But the studies show that surgery is usually not effective long term. One reason is because our understanding is incomplete, and many if not most operations of the last 40 years have been doing more harm than good. And most importantly things in our bodies are constantly changing. Each of my MRIs (taken a year apart) has shown a different situation. Disks spontaneously get better. Even spurs recede. And then another herniation takes place. As I was getting close to saying yes to surgery at L4-L5, the MRI showed the main problem had shifted one level up to L3-L4. An honest neurosurgeon called back surgery a "bread and butter affair" for the profession, and confessed he'd had only a few months' relief from his own first (and last) operation. He said "we cure MRIs". You probably should have some imaging done, but I think my case (with the successive MRIs) is instructive.

    An epidural injection of cortisone and lidocaine can help a lot for a few months if you don't do too many and you're not unlucky. My 4th one was not so lucky. I got a blinding headache that landed me on the floor, lasted a couple weeks, and that nobody could explain, as it wasn't due to CSF leakage. Nein danke, no more, for now. Inversion has to be done very gradually, I've seen it help but it could also make things worse.

    I'm resigned to having a bad back, and sciatica (referred pain in legs), which can get blindingly painful. The Good Lord gave us pain pills, and cannabis. My magic strain so far is the Sour Diesel family, which is a Sativa, and not as stupefying as most Indicas. For some reason it targets lower spine for me. It only works for 3-4 hours, but it's very welcome. Cannabis can help if you find the right strain, though (honestly) for many people pain meds are less disrupting if you're in a cerebral line of work.

    In fact, luck and genetics rule. You may be so lucky as to only have one episode if you take it easy and (please!) let it heal. I'd leave competitive athletics to younger folk. If it turns chronic, you'll be like many others, and have to work out what helps you best with the least trouble. And that's assuming your doctors cooperate. If you study the anatomy and the lack of long term results with most treatments, you'll arrive at a cautious and "show me" approach rather than accepting some miracle recommendation.

    The last most thorough reviews of patient data conclude that although initially many more aggressive approaches look promising, at the two year point it turns out that the most effective treatment is pain meds and letting it heal. Sleeping in the right position, heating pads, ice, acupuncture, prayer, yoga, gentle massage, swimming, moderate exercise, all of these can help, you have to observe, listen to your body. In that sense chiropractic may have a place. But IMHO chiros are quacks, a good massage practitioner can do it cheaper, and their theoretical framework is a sales pitch with no experimental basis in reality.

    It's not clear if anything can prevent degenerative changes, but whatever you can do to gradually improve muscle tone in the back is probably the best defense long term. Take care!
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
  25. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

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    211
    Thanks all. I'm back with more info. Fernand --you were right on the money. The chiro was guessing/ going from experience but I had an MRI and it pinpointed the trouble spot as L4-5 where there is broad-based bulge and superimposed moderate size right neuroforaminal disc protrusion resulting in impingement of the exiting right L4 nerve root. Categorized as degenerative disc disease. Good news- disc not torn. Also good that neuro pain in thigh has gone away.

    Water exercise class and hanging from floaties in water feels heavenly!!

    Will work with chiro and physical therapist and DR to develop least intrusive/ most exercise and massage type approach to help it. As Fernand said about surgery option, my father had 5 or 6 "bread and butter" back surgeries from a world renowned surgeon and each one made it worse.
    Phys Therapist at today's appt did myofascial release in back/ chest and I was able to walk out with normal gait (been hobbling for last 2 weeks). Short lived though--30 minute car ride and pain is back exiting vehicle. Myofascial release was gentle touch and hold/press. I thought it was going to be super aggressive like Rolfing but learned something.
    Sitting kills me.

    Cannabis meds??? I only have small stash of Super Lemon Haze and Green Crack/ Green Cush. Those helped a lot when it was lesser problem and help some now (pain relief and relaxation). I may have to return to CO for some supplies and I assume some Indicas may be better. I don't want couchlock. Someone suggested Sour Diesel works for their lower back pain. Any other recommended strains?
    I don't have enough ABV to make any lotions yet.

    I am looking at adding glass/water to my miniVAP for stepping up my game a notch.
    Wish MN had broad -based MMJ!! They just passed super restrictive/ very limited MMJ bill.

    Again, thanks to all for your thoughtful comments and suggestions!!!!
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