Top Shelf vs. Middle Shelf

cannabis.pro

aka 420EDC
Accessory Maker
From my experience working for a dispensary from 2007 thru 2009 in the East Bay of California, while also moonlighting at Harborside Oakland as a vendor, and a few dispensaries in SF is that there are many things that come into play.
Smell
Dry/Cure
Size of what's in the bag
Match of Genetics to what the vendor says it is to what it appears to be
Trim quality
Visible signs of how grown (OD, GH, vs ID)
Previous relationship with vendor

Nobody is curing 6 months. Your lucky if you get any cure at all with some vendors.

I've seen the perfect OG purchased for some of the highest prices paid. This dispensary paid by the gram, higher per gram price, meant higher up on the shelf. It turned out that OG was not finished drying and had no cure. As it dried, the OG smell never came out. It looked like fire but tasted like booty, and because the buyer wanted the strain in the inventory, went out on a limb and bought it even though they really had no idea how it would come out in the wash. It didn't come out well.

Top shelf was $60/eighth with $5 increments down to $15/eighth (mexi-brick normally). Grams at the time were $18 for top shelf, down to $5 gram for Mexi brick.

The kicker is that in the $35-$45 price range would be GreenHouse (GH) grown fire or Outdoor often Organic fire. These buds didn't look as good as top shelf but if you knew what you were looking for and had a nose for it, you could find top shelf on the mid shelf on any given day. Obviously, post outdoor harvest in November/December time frame brought out the best of the best in terms of finding that top shelf on the mid shelf.

Over the years, Harborside has promoted Full Sun Outdoor grown to top quality with their own program of putting it in a nice cork topped jar. Still comes in cheaper than the top shelf indoor they are selling. It was always great seeing outdoor come in that looked like indoor, and get thrown on the top shelf, didn't happen all the time, but I've seen it happen more than once.

One of the things that bothered me was when vendors would give the dispensary a good deal on some littles or shake, like $1/gram good deal, and then to see the dispensary sell it for $20/eighth. I often thought that people should get the $10/eighth hookup but never saw it happen. I know we were paid pretty well, but I also knew how much cannabis was selling daily/monthly, and that there was room to pass on some savings to patients in need.

For anyone who has access to Harborside in Oakland, San Jose, or Portland. They have some of the best most knowledgeable buyers in the industry.

Now living in Vermont since 2012 is a different story. Vertically integrated dispensary system has removed competition from what I knew in California. Some dispensaries, I rarely find an amber trichome and am lucky to find anything cloudy even. Hash is compressed when it doesn't need to be with excess moisture and improper cure. Poorly packaged edibles, barely childproof/pet proof. Buds smaller than a dime sold as top shelf, too much leaf/lumber on trims. Hopefully the state passes legalization over the next month or two.
 

howie105

Well-Known Member
Know and go with a growers/processor who earns and deserves your trust. Lets face it every step away from the producer is another step away from the best information on the product you can get and the more dependent you are on the retailer who may not even know the whole story. As to the grading of product at a retail shop its mostly up to the seller to claim and the buyer to confirm or contest. Real consistent results for the purchaser will probably not occur till the industry goes industrial and there is wide oversight and regulation across the whole process from seed to consumer like smokes are now. Of course this is just one opinion and I am wrong a bunch of times during the day.
 

ataxian

PALE BLUE DOT
From my experience working for a dispensary from 2007 thru 2009 in the East Bay of California, while also moonlighting at Harborside Oakland as a vendor, and a few dispensaries in SF is that there are many things that come into play.
Smell
Dry/Cure
Size of what's in the bag
Match of Genetics to what the vendor says it is to what it appears to be
Trim quality
Visible signs of how grown (OD, GH, vs ID)
Previous relationship with vendor

Nobody is curing 6 months. Your lucky if you get any cure at all with some vendors.

I've seen the perfect OG purchased for some of the highest prices paid. This dispensary paid by the gram, higher per gram price, meant higher up on the shelf. It turned out that OG was not finished drying and had no cure. As it dried, the OG smell never came out. It looked like fire but tasted like booty, and because the buyer wanted the strain in the inventory, went out on a limb and bought it even though they really had no idea how it would come out in the wash. It didn't come out well.

Top shelf was $60/eighth with $5 increments down to $15/eighth (mexi-brick normally). Grams at the time were $18 for top shelf, down to $5 gram for Mexi brick.

The kicker is that in the $35-$45 price range would be GreenHouse (GH) grown fire or Outdoor often Organic fire. These buds didn't look as good as top shelf but if you knew what you were looking for and had a nose for it, you could find top shelf on the mid shelf on any given day. Obviously, post outdoor harvest in November/December time frame brought out the best of the best in terms of finding that top shelf on the mid shelf.

Over the years, Harborside has promoted Full Sun Outdoor grown to top quality with their own program of putting it in a nice cork topped jar. Still comes in cheaper than the top shelf indoor they are selling. It was always great seeing outdoor come in that looked like indoor, and get thrown on the top shelf, didn't happen all the time, but I've seen it happen more than once.

One of the things that bothered me was when vendors would give the dispensary a good deal on some littles or shake, like $1/gram good deal, and then to see the dispensary sell it for $20/eighth. I often thought that people should get the $10/eighth hookup but never saw it happen. I know we were paid pretty well, but I also knew how much cannabis was selling daily/monthly, and that there was room to pass on some savings to patients in need.

For anyone who has access to Harborside in Oakland, San Jose, or Portland. They have some of the best most knowledgeable buyers in the industry.

Now living in Vermont since 2012 is a different story. Vertically integrated dispensary system has removed competition from what I knew in California. Some dispensaries, I rarely find an amber trichome and am lucky to find anything cloudy even. Hash is compressed when it doesn't need to be with excess moisture and improper cure. Poorly packaged edibles, barely childproof/pet proof. Buds smaller than a dime sold as top shelf, too much leaf/lumber on trims. Hopefully the state passes legalization over the next month or two.
It's definite you have the new school advantage?

I'm primitive and 70's old school hippy surfer that can not even compare to your knowledge.

What is good about legalization is the fact quality will improve.

Dispensary owner's trying to make a buck on CANNABIS will be short lived.
When the Fortune 500 step in forget about running a business on a shoestring!

When I see GSC on the INDICA menu at a dispensary you know they are stupid or their head was crushed before their soft spot grew in?

GREED has taken over CANNABIS?

Little nuggets should be made into concentrates not sold has flower on the top shelf?

If you want a real COLA you have to grow it yourself!

Curing you can't rush and have top shelf?
 
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kellya86

Herb gardener...
Greed always had cannabis, in my lifetime anyway, can't speak for 70's...

This is why I make my own colas...

Least you guys across the pond don't have to contend with foreign contaminants on your flowers...

Fuck greedy criminals...
 

ataxian

PALE BLUE DOT
Greed always had cannabis, in my lifetime anyway, can't speak for 70's...

This is why I make my own colas...

Least you guys across the pond don't have to contend with foreign contaminants on your flowers...

Fuck greedy criminals...
@kellya86 I respect your growing to have colas!

COLAS = TOP SHELF
GOLF BALL SIZED Nuggets = MID SHELF

Bottom Shelf = Concentrates

We need QUALITY ASSURANCE concerning CANNABIS

KEEPING THEM HONEST?
 

howie105

Well-Known Member
Greed always had cannabis, in my lifetime anyway, can't speak for 70's...

This is why I make my own colas...

Least you guys across the pond don't have to contend with foreign contaminants on your flowers...

Fuck greedy criminals...

Greed is a survival instinct all the monkeys have, its usually just more apparent as you move away from the troop. That is why I am a fan of local production, producers are much less likely to screw people they know and sell to. On a side note most of the MJ people have consumed in America was supplied to and from criminals so we should not judge all those criminals harshly.
 

kellya86

Herb gardener...
By experience, @seaofgreens had a good post on the previous page (2nd from bottom I think)

You should be able to tell from the smell and taste, chlorophyll is very distinctive...

As is the taste of nutrients (some organic nutes are hard to detect in my experience)

I suppose the only way to be sure is to grow your own...

If you can see the plant in the last 2 weeks you can tell if it's been flushed as it will be drawing stored nutes from itself, causing leaves to yellow and wilt...

As for the cure, a well cured bud will have a certain texture that can only be achieved with time..
Dry, but not brittle, still hold its structure, doesn't go to dust. Hard to explain this,
Like I said, experience...
 

Hashtag46&2

Trichome Technician
How can you tell whether meds have been flushed & cured properly?
Heya rama...
A great way to tell if the plant was flushed and cured properly, unfortunately involves combustion..

The ashes from combustion are very white if flushed and cured correctly.

Extremely black ashes otherwise..

Detecting Systemic pesticides are near impossible however without proper Lab Analysis.
The 2 big NO-NOs..

Avid

Eagle 20

These are horrible pesticides, but they are extremely effective at killing bugs and Fungicidal Mould or Powdery Mildew.

Those two are easily the most dangerous Pesticides/Fungicides that are used in enormous "Warehouse Grows".
However, there is one pesticide that is also commonly used in both Warehouse and Small Home Growers..

Hot Shot No -Pest Strips.(Not to be used in residential areas or where pets/animals or people are occupied for 4 hours)

Many arguments
on Cultivation Forums due to the "Good Guy" spotting a Pest -Strip in a picture a fellow growers posts of his/her garden...

However, go over to your friends house who happens to be one of the aforementioned "Good Guys"..

"Fuck those Strips, are you trying to poison people?!"

And guess what you see when said friend gives you a tour of the garden? Or even worse.. He is caught posting a picture with the same damn pest strip?

Shit is CRAZY!!
Nobody wants to admit to being "that guy "
Neem oil, and Spinosad (Completely Organic and deemed safe to use all the way up until the day before Harvest) are the only ones I use, and it is only for prevention...

Absolutely nothing is sprayed onto my plants other than plain water after week 2 of the initial "Vegative State " (Baby Stage)

Bugs?... Plant is destroyed, into compost.... HazMat the room and start over.
It sucks, but I refuse to let anyone consume residual pesticides, let alone my friends and family and myself.

Trust your provider is my best advice if growing is not feasible.

Edit: I have lost 2 very close and trusted friends because they keep using pest strips, and giving it away as "Meds"
 
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herbivore21

Well-Known Member
Heya rama...
A great way to tell if the plant was flushed and cured properly, unfortunately involves combustion..

The ashes from combustion are very white if flushed and cured correctly.

Extremely black ashes otherwise..

Detecting Systemic pesticides are near impossible however without proper Lab Analysis.
The 2 big NO-NOs..

Avid

Eagle 20

These are horrible pesticides, but they are extremely effective at killing bugs and Fungicidal Mould or Powdery Mildew.

Those two are easily the most dangerous Pesticides/Fungicides that are used in enormous "Warehouse Grows".
However, there is one pesticide that is also commonly used in both Warehouse and Small Home Growers..

Hot Shot No -Pest Strips.(Not to be used in residential areas or where pets/animals or people are occupied for 4 hours)

Many arguments
on Cultivation Forums due to the "Good Guy" spotting a Pest -Strip in a picture a fellow growers posts of his/her garden...

However, go over to your friends house who happens to be one of the aforementioned "Good Guys"..

"Fuck those Strips, are you trying to poison people?!"

And guess what you see when said friend gives you a tour of the garden? Or even worse.. He is caught posting a picture with the same damn pest strip?

Shit is CRAZY!!
Nobody wants to admit to being "that guy "
Neem oil, and Spinosad (Completely Organic and deemed safe to use all the way up until the day before Harvest) are the only ones I use, and it is only for prevention...

Absolutely nothing is sprayed onto my plants other than plain water after week 2 of the initial "Vegative State " (Baby Stage)

Bugs?... Plant is destroyed, into compost.... HazMat the room and start over.
It sucks, but I refuse to let anyone consume residual pesticides, let alone my friends and family and myself.

Trust your provider is my best advice if growing is not feasible.

Edit: I have lost 2 very close and trusted friends because they keep using pest strips, and giving it away as "Meds"
You are so right on the pesticides and such man, one of the many reasons I have such respect for you is because you are truly looking to make the cleanest, safest medicine possible.

A buddy of mine doing advanced lab isolation and extraction has been finding that neem oil - when used - consistently ends up in your extracts and is full of fats etc that will not be so nice to boil and inhale. Neem oil is not especially dangerous at all but definitely what I would consider contaminant and not something I'd wanna have in my dab. Removal of residual neem oil after the fact requires chromatography or fractional distillation and is a hell of a lot of work/money either way.

It is fascinating, the new things we are learning as cannabis gets out of the closet and into the laboratory!
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I had bought some exceptional Trainwreck a month or so ago at a medical cannabis farmers market and paid $10 a gram.

Today I saw some Trainwreck through a different farmer for $5 a gram. I really love flavor. This doesn't have the blueberry flavor that the other cannabis had. It gets me as medicated but its lacking the flavor. It really doesn't have much of a flavor. It's not dried out. I think I will mix some GrapeApe with it.

For me sometimes it's worth it to pay a couple dollars extra. I'm glad I bought this but there have been times I've been disappointed with $5 a gram cannabis. Sometimes it just means they have a lot of a particular strain, so they sell it for less. It could be the end of the jar too but still quite good.

Sometimes it's worth it to buy a little and go back for more if you really like it.
 
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