The Screwball by Vapvana

[Pinball-Vapes]

Here is some concept art I cooked up last night for what I'd like to see in a duel 25mm coil hot hole for a wireless Screwball / quartz labware combo.

 

[ApparentlyStoned]

I just ordered a SB as my first foray into ball vapes.
I researched for a while and finally went with it but missed out on a pid.

Anyone have a good pid recommendation?
I’ve been looking at the one from Auber and Cannabis Hardware. Would mininail work?

I don’t have an enail setup so a whole kit would be nice.

I’m just looking for some suggestions of where to look. I’m excited.

 

[Grass Yes]

Anyone have a good pid recommendation?
I’ve been looking at the one from Auber and Cannabis Hardware. Would mininail work?

You'll want a PID controller that is wired in the D-Nail/Auber style and that uses an XLR connector. Unfortunately mininail is not compatible.

I like my Auber RDK 300B. It's a simple knob and button interface and it's pretty easy to understand all the settings. It also has boost mode.

Although there are lots of good PID controllers out there. You can find one that looks identical to the Vapvana controller on Ali Express, although I can't vouch for the quality (or the pin out).

There are several companies who use the XMT-7200 as their control module and those seem to work great. Crossing Tech, Cannabis Hardware, Cloud Connoisseur, Disorderly Conduction, etc... just make sure you get the pin out that matches the Vapvana coils.

I've heard good things about both the D-Nail control stations, but they are a little more expensive. And of course you can always build your own but that cost time and money.

 

[ApparentlyStoned]

Thank you. Solid response.
It turns out I’ll be getting the vapvana one but the auber looked real interesting.

Have you used the boost feature with the screwball? How well does that work?

 

[Grass Yes]

Have you used the boost feature with the screwball? How well does that work?

It's meant to emulate a cold start dab: low temp to start for flavor, etc. It just swaps between two temperatures with a single click.

I have not found the boost useful for ball vapes. I could see it being useful for a wireless ball vape to quickly switch in a banger.

 

[4-Aces King-High]

I just ordered a SB as my first foray into ball vapes.
I researched for a while and finally went with it but missed out on a pid.

Anyone have a good pid recommendation?
I’ve been looking at the one from Auber and Cannabis Hardware. Would mininail work?

I don’t have an enail setup so a whole kit would be nice.

I’m just looking for some suggestions of where to look. I’m excited.

I like my CH PID And DC PIDs.
Got my Titanium Screwball 3 days ago And Am Enjoying the Screwball at 530F.

 

[General Disaster]

Also just got my Screwball, and appreciating the seriously good design and quality of manufacture. I have to say I think my B2 is looking very unloved and sad, now the new child is getting all the well deserved attention. And that scoop! I'm in love with a scoop, ffs! (just check the original price too - no customer gouging there like some $50 scoops!)

Regards the question of using SiC instead of Ti for the head, one thing I've noticed in the SB is the extremely fast movement of heat from the more powerful coil to the ruby, such that I don't see any drift on the temperature from the rubies continuing to soak heat despite the Pid showing above the set temperature, which I experience on other 100W 20mm coil devices. On the SB this doesn't seem to happen, it's fast to heat up, and fast to settle at equilibrium, there's almost no detectable lag in response.

I believe this is mostly due to the higher capacity heating element (Cal's "First Idea"?), but also the thin and conductive titanium wall of the heater married to the gem shape and small size of the ruby. While SiC may have a higher heat capacity, that doesn't mean that heat can flow into and out of the material as fast as some other materials, like titanium. Also allowing for the shape and distribution of the capacitor material as well as it's specific heat capacity and conductance. Without that fast flow of heat, a less conductive material will take longer to come into equilibrium with the coil. Then as pointed out, the cost has a big impact, and I'd guess any improvement would not be worth the extra cost (development and materials). Vapvana seem to have achieved a very good balance in where the money goes, and making the most of that value in the quality of product. To make a high-end device at an entry-level cost, and then go in the direction of the obscure, rare and costly, may not work well with that paradigm even if it technically works.

Also, I suspect the gems have a better contact area between each other and their Ti container. Balls will always only have a tiny contact area because every part of the surface is convex, while the gems are made of small flat facets that can sometimes make a higher area of contact with a neighbour or wall, plus the fact there are so many more of them makes the probability of better contact for each one higher - essentially giving a network of higher capacity routes for the heat to penetrate to the middle of the head allowing faster heatup times. Not dissimilar to poking holes into a spud before baking, so the heat from the oven can penetrate the middle of the potato much quicker.

Sadly, changing even just one factor by a seemingly small degree, can make differences not originally accounted for - hence the need for experimentation. Though experimentation comes from having these ideas in the first place, it has to be said!

 

[coolbreeze]

Also just got my Screwball, and appreciating the seriously good design and quality of manufacture. I have to say I think my B2 is looking very unloved and sad, now the new child is getting all the well deserved attention. And that scoop! I'm in love with a scoop, ffs! (just check the original price too - no customer gouging there like some $50 scoops!)

Regards the question of using SiC instead of Ti for the head, one thing I've noticed in the SB is the extremely fast movement of heat from the more powerful coil to the ruby, such that I don't see any drift on the temperature from the rubies continuing to soak heat despite the Pid showing above the set temperature, which I experience on other 100W 20mm coil devices. On the SB this doesn't seem to happen, it's fast to heat up, and fast to settle at equilibrium, there's almost no detectable lag in response.

I believe this is mostly due to the higher capacity heating element (Cal's "First Idea"?), but also the thin and conductive titanium wall of the heater married to the gem shape and small size of the ruby. While SiC may have a higher heat capacity, that doesn't mean that heat can flow into and out of the material as fast as some other materials, like titanium. Also allowing for the shape and distribution of the capacitor material as well as it's specific heat capacity and conductance. Without that fast flow of heat, a less conductive material will take longer to come into equilibrium with the coil. Then as pointed out, the cost has a big impact, and I'd guess any improvement would not be worth the extra cost (development and materials). Vapvana seem to have achieved a very good balance in where the money goes, and making the most of that value in the quality of product. To make a high-end device at an entry-level cost, and then go in the direction of the obscure, rare and costly, may not work well with that paradigm even if it technically works.

Also, I suspect the gems have a better contact area between each other and their Ti container. Balls will always only have a tiny contact area because every part of the surface is convex, while the gems are made of small flat facets that can sometimes make a higher area of contact with a neighbour or wall, plus the fact there are so many more of them makes the probability of better contact for each one higher - essentially giving a network of higher capacity routes for the heat to penetrate to the middle of the head allowing faster heatup times. Not dissimilar to poking holes into a spud before baking, so the heat from the oven can penetrate the middle of the potato much quicker.

Sadly, changing even just one factor by a seemingly small degree, can make differences not originally accounted for - hence the need for experimentation. Though experimentation comes from having these ideas in the first place, it has to be said!

Couldn't agree more both on how well tuned this thing is and the exceptional balance of build quality and cost. The efficiency at low temps and resulting flavor are remarkable and I imagine its big-hit capacity is unmatched. I think for the average ball-vaper this thing really sits in a sweet spot.

 

[General Disaster]

Here is some concept art I cooked up last night for what I'd like to see in a duel 25mm coil hot hole for a wireless Screwball / quartz labware combo.

Cool designs Glenn, but is the positioning of the coils toward the back going to make it harder to pick up and return the heads?
In fact, more so returning them as you wouldn't easily be able to see where to position the head to sit smoothly onto the coil receiver? Especially the upper design.
Or am I looking at it wrong?

Couldn't agree more both on how well tuned this thing is and the exceptional balance of build quality and cost. The efficiency at low temps and resulting flavor are remarkable and I imagine its big-hit capacity is unmatched. I think for the average ball-vaper this thing really sits in a sweet spot.

Well I dunno if anyone's talked about this side of it here, but the higher the temperature, the more degradation of the terpenes in particular. These can break down to very simple basic components like three-carbon chains that then recombine to form, among other things, chemicals like benzene, a known carcinogenic toxin, and when, say, running dab's at very high temps, there's maybe a 50+ fold increase in benzene from that already in the air! Benzene isn't the only thing either, but as an example is mostly known about as a nasty substance to be deliberately inhaling!

But, there again, it's not clear how the dangers of this specific reaction relate to something like combustion, where equally high (or higher?) temperatures can be reached, though rarely as much compound involved in one inhalation. But it may be that even the most aggressive dabbing (temp wise) is minimally damaging compared to a spliff with tobacco (or even one with just cannabis flower), I've not read up on the figures for benzene (as a comparison) with combustion.
So many variables, so little time! <sigh!>

P.S.
Sorry, was a little vague, I mention dabbing as being the more aggressive heating in most cases, but essentially, the higher you run the temperature up with any cannabis product including flower, the more danger of toxic and carcinogenic effects, but it's the degree of difference I'm less sure about, how much does this actually matter compared to everyday risks.

 

[Grass Yes]

I don't see any drift on the temperature from the rubies continuing to soak heat despite the Pid showing above the set temperature

What are you using to measure the temperature of the rubies?

 

[General Disaster]

What are you using to measure the temperature of the rubies?

Nothing what so ever!
I'm not doing science, I'm speaking about my direct experience using this, as against my B2. Nothing more than that.
It's impossible to make much of any absolute temperatures since the calibration and positioning of the probe will impact that regardless of the products being used. All the Pid display gives, which is all I have, is a relative number against which we can make comparisons with previous runs, and to a slightly lesser degree, with others using same kit.
So I'm basing my comments on the responsiveness of the Pid/coil from eye-balling, and compared to the B2, it's a lot faster to reach working temperature, and it doesn't appear to have a detectable lag that the B2 shows, where the rubies have to catch up to the coils temperature at first, with the Pid reading above the set limit for a minute or so before settling back down, and also when it's used, the B2 shows maybe 8 to 10 degree drop in temp, and requires a period of reheating before using again. The SB doesn't seem to need to do that because the extra heat from 200W is being sucked into those rubies much faster!
Or am I talking balls?

Oh yeah, also see the same effect when heating the bowl - with the B2 the temp drops by maybe 8 degree's before coming back up as the bowl temp approaches the head temp. With the SB I see no drop at all, not even 1 degree (obviously it drops a little, but nothing the pid can display).

Just a thought on the kit itself, excellent as it is, I've picked up on three very small changes that I think would improve the out-of-the-box experience...

1. A tiny collar of some sort that can clip onto the stem of the coil and stop the whole assembly sliding on the stand until the head touches the steel of the up panel of the stand. Should be really cheap and easy to add I'd have thought?

2. A high-friction sticker (or feet) on the bottom of the pid so it won't slide on a smooth surface. Again, should be cheap and simple to include and makes a big difference when waving the head around on the end of that cable (I immediately stuck four little 'feet' on - much better!).

3. A wooden disk about 6cm diameter and 1cm thick, with a hole about 18mm wide at the centre, so the bowl can be placed there when hot but without touching the surface it's on (it gently wedges into the hole to support it upright), and also it can be used as a stand when filling the bowl, and will catch any crumbs that fall outside the bowl when filling it. Should again be really cheap to knock up, and yet really useful because the bowl doesn't balance well being so light, without some sort of support. Could make a slightly more sophisticated version from a high temp plastic, slightly dished like a saucer but essentially the same thing (or even a short candlestick affair out of lathed ally for a delux version).

That's not a criticism in the slightest by the way, but just the simplest cheapest things I could think of that would have improved it even more! Nothing that can't be improvised, but for sheer inclusivity, and bearing in mind the price puts this in the beginner range where some buyers may be less experienced at what to pay attention to.

I wish TAG was a bit more consistent, my current TAG downstem sticks every time. A little coconut oil and a twist keeps it reasonably easy to remove for a day or so.

Just a thought, but I used to work in wet chemistry labs, and we used a few different types of grease especially for Quickfit™ glass joints (glass to glass only, not suitable for the SB bowl) to prevent sticking. Some were silicon based, just a clear thick gel, and designed for high vacuum seals - others that wouldn't dry up and cause a seizure, wouldn't boil or out-gas etc. in a reaction vessel. i.e. a good few types and uses.
If this remains an issue (when doesn't it?) it may be searching online will come up with some options worth trying (avoid vaseline etc!). If not the more usual and popular online distributors, then going direct to scientific supplier websites (Dow Corning make them if you want a search term). As well as grease, another solution for glass-glass joints are thin ptfe sleeves that go around the male part before slipping into the female socket and preventing glass touching glass while providing a good seal.

 

[Grass Yes]

All the Pid display gives, which is all I have, is a relative number against which we can make comparisons with previous runs, and to a slightly lesser degree, with others using same kit.

I think what you are describing is the fact that the Vapvana PID controller doesn't do real time updates. The set temperature is not changed once it is reached. You can demonstrate this quite easily by cooling the thermocouple (at the tip of the coil). You will see no temperature drop. However you can measure, even with an IR temperature gun that the coil is cooled and then heats rapidly.

I suspect if you want an apples-to-apples comparison on thermal stability, you would at least want to use the same controller as your other ball vapes.

 

[General Disaster]

I think what you are describing is the fact that the Vapvana PID controller doesn't do real time updates. The set temperature is not changed once it is reached. You can demonstrate this quite easily by cooling the thermocouple (at the tip of the coil). You will see no temperature drop. However you can measure, even with an IR temperature gun that the coil is cooled and then heats rapidly.

I suspect if you want an apples-to-apples comparison on thermal stability, you would at least want to use the same controller as your other ball vapes.

Oh I quite agree! Not to mention the fact I'm pretty new to the game so lots I don't know yet. And that's going to be a comparison, but I want to get to know the thing with it's supplied controller first, as much because I have no idea if it's tuned to the 200W coil or not. In fact, now I have you (er, so to speak!), maybe you can answer that question? I've a CH unit, will that plug and play with the SB head, or would it need calibrating or some other operation to work?
One thing though, the display gives the appearance of being quite responsive while the temperature is on the increase, but from what you say, that's not working the same when the temperature decreases? (disclaimer: I know approx. less than zero about electronics).
Safety is number one, both it's and mine, but if the temperature reading is just going to be wildly out in absolute terms, that would be good to know as well (keeps my blood pressure down! ;o)), thanks.

 

[Grass Yes]

I've a CH unit, will that plug and play with the SB head, or would it need calibrating or some other operation to work?

If it is the CH/NV controller you'll want to auto tune it after you plug in the Screwball. If you have an Auber, it is a manual setting.

Edited to add: it won't harm anything if you don't auto tune or set the PSL. It will just help with the accuracy and stability when heating.

 

[General Disaster]

If it is the CH/NV controller you'll want to auto tune it after you plug in the Screwball. If you have an Auber, it is a manual setting.

Nice one! Thanks, that's good to know (and I'm glad I was too impulsive! ;o)).
Once I'm a bit more at home with the SB I'll play around on the CH Pid and see what the difference is like. Also, this likely explains why it seem SO good at retaining the heat, I'll have to try waiting a little longer before using and see the difference. But the real fast heat up must mean that heat is soaking in fast, unless the difference that extra coil and wattage makes is even more than I'd expect.

 

[Vapvana]

Quick Presale Update​

Hey y’all!

Making a quick update from my phone - since unfortunately over this weekend I forgot to lock my car doors at night and woke up to my backpack (and laptop) missing

Luckily my sister had an extra laptop she shipped out to me, and I should be back up and running by Tuesday / Wednesday

The 2nd Presale Is Officially Sold Out​

Thanks to anyone who supported us this round! I still need to count up the total FC coupons used, but I will most likely put those funds towards another Screwball giveaway soon

Extra Units​

Technically there are some extra kits still, and I’ve been manually sending draft orders to people reaching out about a kit.

If you’re still interested in a Screwball kit (with or without PID) at the presale pricing, please send an email to hi@vapvana.com

Presale Shipping Timeline​

Everything is on track to ship out by this upcoming Friday the 9th

I’m waiting for the kits, postcards, stickers, and shipping supplies to be delivered this week. I’m also working on a manual and quick start instructions to be added with each order

Sticker Preview:

Next Update​

After I get up and running on my new laptop I will be able to properly respond to all the great discussions that have developed since my last post

I also have a friend helping me with shipping and content, so expect some fun updates of more BTS (behind the scenes) type of videos

Thanks again to everyone who has supported us along the way. No matter if you’ve made a purchase, post, review, or just took the time to read this thread…

I appreciate you

Talk soon,
Cal

 

[TedJones]

Nice one! Thanks, that's good to know (and I'm glad I was too impulsive! ;o)).
Once I'm a bit more at home with the SB I'll play around on the CH Pid and see what the difference is like. Also, this likely explains why it seem SO good at retaining the heat, I'll have to try waiting a little longer before using and see the difference. But the real fast heat up must mean that heat is soaking in fast, unless the difference that extra coil and wattage makes is even more than I'd expect.

My first controller (Qaroma) came default with the “real time” readout if you will. I would set to 550 and it would take a couple minutes to get there, then go past usually by 10 degrees. From there it would descend and stabilize, ready in 7-8 minutes from start. It would drop as well during/after a pull, but climb fairly quick back up. Found I really didn’t need to wait until it came back to my set temp to use again. Rubies, heater, bowl were already hot enough.

 

[General Disaster]

Nice one! Thanks, that's good to know (and I'm glad I was too impulsive! ;o)).
Once I'm a bit more at home with the SB I'll play around on the CH Pid and see what the difference is like. Also, this likely explains why it seem SO good at retaining the heat, I'll have to try waiting a little longer before using and see the difference. But the real fast heat up must mean that heat is soaking in fast, unless the difference that extra coil and wattage makes is even more than I'd expect.

Sorry people:
" (and I'm glad I was too impulsive! ;o))."
I have problems with comms sometimes, I meant to say "wasn't" !!!!!! Aaaaagh! (Fuck Neuro-diversion! ;o))

My first controller (Qaroma) came default with the “real time” readout if you will. I would set to 550 and it would take a couple minutes to get there, then go past usually by 10 degrees. From there it would descend and stabilize, ready in 7-8 minutes from start. It would drop as well during/after a pull, but climb fairly quick back up. Found I really didn’t need to wait until it came back to my set temp to use again. Rubies, heater, bowl were already hot enough.

That sounds very similar to what I experience with the CH B2 and CH's pid (the cheaper one without the dial), which is why I was so surprised to see the remarkable difference, but maybe made the mistake of assuming the SB's pid's readout would have a similar sensitivity, I should have thought it through BEFORE trying the blessed thing out? :^D
Still, a testament to it's efficacy, it scrambled my brains well enough!

 

[SixStringToker]

I think what you are describing is the fact that the Vapvana PID controller doesn't do real time updates. The set temperature is not changed once it is reached. You can demonstrate this quite easily by cooling the thermocouple (at the tip of the coil). You will see no temperature drop. However you can measure, even with an IR temperature gun that the coil is cooled and then heats rapidly.

I suspect if you want an apples-to-apples comparison on thermal stability, you would at least want to use the same controller as your other ball vapes.

Sounds like the deadzone/deadband setting is enabled. High Five does that with their LDC controller, too - annoying as hell! When the active temperature reading is within XX degrees of the Set/Target temperature, the display will only display the Set temp. There's probably a setting in the service menu to disable that / set it to 0.

The temperature probe in the SB's coil is down past the ball chamber over the thin wall that extends down over the bowl. I'd expect to see the temp drop quite a bit more than the B0 as a result of that since the bowl will immediately start leeching heat from those thin walls with no balls to buffer the heat transfer. That loss should show up quickly on the coil. Same story with the T360 (likely an even larger drop in the coil temp) and my own tethered Steamroller heads. I've seen as much as a 35-degree drop in the coil with the Steamroller, with barely any change within the actual ball chamber.

 

[Sandrider1962]

Sounds like the deadzone/deadband setting is enabled. High Five does that with their LDC controller, too - annoying as hell! When the active temperature reading is within XX degrees of the Set/Target temperature, the display will only display the Set temp. There's probably a setting in the service menu to disable that / set it to 0.

The temperature probe in the SB's coil is down past the ball chamber over the thin wall that extends down over the bowl. I'd expect to see the temp drop quite a bit more than the B0 as a result of that since the bowl will immediately start leeching heat from those thin walls with no balls to buffer the heat transfer. That loss should show up quickly on the coil. Same story with the T360 (likely an even larger drop in the coil temp) and my own tethered Steamroller heads. I've seen as much as a 35-degree drop in the coil with the Steamroller, with barely any change within the actual ball chamber.

(if I am understanding correctly)
Interesting observation.... In that the thermocouple is at the tip of the coil. (truth is I haven't though it out that far)
With the tip of the coil below the heat mass, time relation between the thermocouple and the casing of the heat mass are not real time.
Thinking the other direction (start up).... ie... temp set at 500d, say on the SB or the T360, when 500d is Indicated, the mass is will be behind per se.
Granted in time it will catch up, but there will always be a delay.

As I had factored the internal mass would not be in real time either, with the unit I have, I usually let it heat soak 20-30m before use.
(I'm still an infant in the ball vape world).... lol

 

[General Disaster]

Sounds like the deadzone/deadband setting is enabled. High Five does that with their LDC controller, too - annoying as hell! When the active temperature reading is within XX degrees of the Set/Target temperature, the display will only display the Set temp. There's probably a setting in the service menu to disable that / set it to 0.

The temperature probe in the SB's coil is down past the ball chamber over the thin wall that extends down over the bowl. I'd expect to see the temp drop quite a bit more than the B0 as a result of that since the bowl will immediately start leeching heat from those thin walls with no balls to buffer the heat transfer. That loss should show up quickly on the coil. Same story with the T360 (likely an even larger drop in the coil temp) and my own tethered Steamroller heads. I've seen as much as a 35-degree drop in the coil with the Steamroller, with barely any change within the actual ball chamber.

Now that's interesting! Because with a little experimentation last night, I found on turning down the temp by 10 degree's (I work in ℉ for a slightly better resolution, not that it really matters), it didn't want to start showing a drop at first on the display. I lifted the hear up and blew on the coil and suddenly the display started to register change, almost immediately displayed about 2/3 degree's lower (it was on 520 before turning it down) and then proceeded to show a responsive display of the temp reduction until it settled on 510.

This gives the appearance of matching what you said about it 'sticking' at the set temp until 'pushed' beyond a certain amount before showing any change. It's going to be rather interesting to compare with my CH pid, also trying the B2 in the SB pid for comparison of the B2's perceived behaviour (perceived by me, that is, and 'perceived' as opposed to being actually measured).

It's occurred to me that temperature measurement in absolute terms and in the weed in the bowl rather than the coil or head/rubies, would be a really useful thing to make it easier and more accurate to home in on the desired profile by boiling points.

The only setting I've discovered above the only instructions I've found on the net, is pressing the 'minus' key (same as with the 'plus' key for changing between ℉ & ℃) and it gives me three "zero's" on the display with the left hand one flashing. Pressing the 'minus' again steps through each of the three digits to select one; the 'plus' steps the selected digit through 0 up to 9 and then back to 0.
I can set them to any digit (000 to 999 inclusive) but I have no idea what that's changing, and doesn't sound like the setting you describe (i.e. it's set to zero already), so being one of those people who blow-up new expensive kit because they figured they didn't need a manual, I thought better of trying it out!
I haven't found any other menu's apart from the time-out cut-off option.

 

[Grass Yes]

it easier and more accurate to home in on the desired profile by boiling points.

If I could wake up tomorrow and erase those bogus boiling point charts from the internet, I would do it. Have a look at this thread for some useful info on vaping temperatures:

Boiling point myths and the science of flower vaporization

Okay, I just read another article (from a cannabis science site, no less) that completely missed how flower vaporization actually works. So, I wrote an article for Medium, and wanted to post it on FC for your comments and insights. This was written at a high level for a less knowledgeable...

fuckcombustion.com

Its easy enough to add a temperature probe to your bowl, but what that tells you in general is dubious. So much is dependent on draw speed, cure of your flower, ambient temperature that I don't think there is anything generalizable there.

The only setting I've discovered above the only instructions I've found on the net

Good find! I searched around for the manual for the Vapvana controller and could not find it. I was going to reach out to SZ Crossing to see if they had one. Would you mind sharing the link here?

 

[General Disaster]

If I could wake up tomorrow and erase those bogus boiling point charts from the internet, I would do it. Have a look at this thread for some useful info on vaping temperatures:

Boiling point myths and the science of flower vaporization

Okay, I just read another article (from a cannabis science site, no less) that completely missed how flower vaporization actually works. So, I wrote an article for Medium, and wanted to post it on FC for your comments and insights. This was written at a high level for a less knowledgeable...

fuckcombustion.com

Its easy enough to add a temperature probe to your bowl, but what that tells you in general is dubious. So much is dependent on draw speed, cure of your flower, ambient temperature that I don't think there is anything generalizable there.

Thanks for that but I'm already familiar with these issues, and (I may have missed something, I only quickly scanned that article) it doesn't even go as far as it could in explaining how you can't dial-a-terp in the way people seem to often think you can (even if it was possible to accurately and precisely measure the temperature at the tricome!). For one thing, on top of what's said, the mixing of different compounds in itself will change the boiling points of those compounds! Same principal as adding salt to ice to lower it's melting point. But far more complicated with the huge range of different compounds in the mix.
But, temperature is still a major factor in the type of hit and how much comes off, etc. It may not be dial-a-terp, but it still is consistent (according to strain and other criteria) and can be used to control the experience.
On that vein, one idea I had for a future vape, would be something that can instantly vape a bowl at a low pressure, then release that into the air (and airways) so it can boil off the cannabinoids and terpenes at a much lower temperature, making the degradation issue much less prominent.
Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time! I think I must have just had a bowl!
The temp probe is a nice idea, but when you think on the temps at the ends of those trichome's and how hard it would be to really accurately measure that absolutely and accurately when the heat capacity must be so low, I wonder whether a physical probe would even be the right type (though how you'd use IR through a Ti bowl wall is another matter! ). In the end, as I see it and without going all science-nazi on myself, using the temp on the pid is the best definitive tool, since s you rightly say, much of the rest is hard to measure other than by 'feel' (suction, quantity, bowl capacity, grind, etc etc). Yes, they could be better measured, but really, that's too much like hard work for me, tbh. I can judge these things well enough, like most of us, but judging a temperature, even relatively, is not so easy with human senses (ok, I don't mean using your eye's to read a thermometer! ).

Good find! I searched around for the manual for the Vapvana controller and could not find it. I was going to reach out to SZ Crossing to see if they had one. Would you mind sharing the link here?

Ah! Um, er, oh dear! I think you may be expecting rather more than I can produce - hence my plaintive plea!
It's barely worth a link to be honest! Here, out of the kindness of my heart, I herby present the original text to you!
(By the way, I took this from the excellent RecVapS site over my side of the pond - credit where credit is due! (and a big shout out to Matt!))

PID Controller Instructions - None included with PID

Hold the central button for 5 seconds to turn on or off

Use the +/- buttons to adjust the temperature

When switched on, press the central button five times to access auto-off timer

Adjust with +/- from 0-5. 0 switches the timer off or select 1-5 hours

Celcius/Fahrenheit - Hold down + button for 5 seconds while the controller is switched off. Then press the + button again to change between C and F. Press the central button to exit.

I have asked if they can provide any further info on it, even just a model number, manufacturer, etc. Will pass on anything I may get, but I wouldn't hold yer breath waiting!

And back to the ongoing saga of the Pid: Part 2 - The Revenge!

So, plugged in my SB head to my CH pid (not the Auger one), and ran an auto-tune.
Results are interesting, I can't be arsed to time it atm, but it takes about twice the time to get to the set temperature as on the original pid! Much closer in timing to the B2, and also behaves much more like the B2 in terms of going well past the set temp (by about 15 degrees, where the B2 was about 8 degrees higher), then gradually working it's way back down to the set temp as, presumably, those rubies soak up the heat and come to equilibrium. Also now, when sitting on the CH heat stand it settles on 1 degree lower than set to. Put on the SB stand and it initially drops another degree while it heats the small part of the stand, then quickly settles on the exact temperature it's set to (this is at 490 ℉).

So firstly, as unscientific as all that was, it still tells me much of what I first wrote was full of bad assumptions and wrong conclusions, but that doesn't detract from the beasts performance at all of course! I just want to understand how it's really behaving, so I can get the best from it. I don't leave it running as the environment's not suitable, so I have to heat up frequently, and knowing how long to wait is pretty important it seems! Even more so now I know the SB's pid isn't totally honest in certain ways.
But that said, unless there's some real funny games being played, it seems to be tuned to get up to temp much faster, but lacks the more subtle read-out of the CH pid, and needs a timed delay after reaching that set temp before putting head to bowl (Ha! Sounds like having a technicolour yawn, as they'd say in the antipodes! ).

When I can be motivated I ought to formalise these tests and get some proper timings, but I need to somehow fit that in between getting totally wrecked! Somehow, procrastination seems to be getting more and more desirable!
And thanks for all your input, it's good to get up to speed with the benefit of other's experience.

P.S.
Just found that the settling on the exact set temp on the SB stand happens when only the stem is touching, if it slides so the actualy coil is also touching, it seems to settle at 1 degree lower than set, as with the CH stand, which makes sense from the p.o.v. of the heat distribution.
But worthy of note if deciding whether to use a CH heat stand for the SB. It seems the extra metal isn't too big a problem, and barely worse than the SB stand (or at least so far! The cat hasn't yet discovered this new source of warmth!).
Oh, one caveat, using the CH heat post does delay heat-up time getting that post up to temp, which won't happen on the SB's stand, of course.

 

[Vapvana]

Quick Presale Shipping Update​

Hey y'all!

Good news - I'm officially back up and running on a laptop AND everything is on track to ship out US orders by end of day tomorrow!

(International orders might go out tomorrow too, if not the day after - still waiting on boxes to be delivered)

GOBs Glass Prototypes​

I've been working with GOBs glass on making a new desktop rig prototype with a built in dry catch. I also requested two versions made, one with hole percs and one with slit percs to test the different styles side by side.

Once I'm caught up on shipping I'll most likely make a new thread for our glass collabs - but heres some pics for now

Next Update​

After I'm caught up on shipping this week I'll be able to make a more proper update - for now I'm focused on getting all the current presale orders out

If you need anything please send an email to hi@vapvana.com

Otherwise I look forward to getting more screwballs in the wild, and updating y'all soon.

Cheers,
Cal

 

[Pinball-Vapes]

Cool designs Glenn, but is the positioning of the coils toward the back going to make it harder to pick up and return the heads?
In fact, more so returning them as you wouldn't easily be able to see where to position the head to sit smoothly onto the coil receiver? Especially the upper design.
Or am I looking at it wrong?

Thanks for the feedback!

This was a design choice with the idea that it would be safer to have the coils away from the PID controllers where hands would touch them.

However you bring up something that I didn't consider regarding the ergonomics and visibility returning the heads. This is something I'd like to correct in another revision when I have more free time.

Update: Ok so I had an earlier triangle shape I wanted to do before going for the literal baseball diamond approach. Here is a rough pen on paper sketch of that, plus refinements made from General Disaster's critique.

https://imgur.com/a/SmugXtV

Also, here's a receipt sketch of what I think a single coil unit '1st Base' might look like.

https://imgur.com/a/eABxHfS