1. What does SSTB mean? See our glossary of acronyms.
    Dismiss Notice

thc / cbd fat bonding temp?

Discussion in 'Cooking with Cannabis' started by 1DMF, Mar 21, 2017.

  1. 1DMF

    1DMF Old School Cheesy Quaver

    Messages:
    963
    Location:
    England
    Hi,

    I'm making another batch of oil and as i have a probe thermometer I thought I would check the temperature of the coconut oil.

    I put 55 grams of ABV into a jar of coconut oil over a bain-marie and brought the water to boil.

    After a couple of hours I tested the oil temperature with a probe thermometer and it showed between 155 and 160 fahrenheit.

    Is this a good temperature for the fat & THC to bind?
     
    strictly vapor likes this.
  2. strictly vapor

    strictly vapor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    130
    I posted the same question earlier today on ask fc. I used the same temps as you last time and got good results. Before this my temps were higher as I didn't have a temp reader.

    Further research has led me to suspect that 212f (100c) is a more suitable temperature as it does not degrade cannabinoids. This research has me thinking that a prolonged infusion (8-12+ hours) at 212f is ideal, and I will be testing my theory this weekend.

    As my last batch was carried out similarly to yours, I will check back and let you know how my new technique differs in effects.
     
    TheMadDabber and 1DMF like this.
  3. 1DMF

    1DMF Old School Cheesy Quaver

    Messages:
    963
    Location:
    England
    thanks @strictly vapor , I did search FC but couldn't find the answer.

    I did some internet research and I too found a lot of chatter talking about @ 200F - 225F, which is why I wondered if my temp was too low.

    However, many are talking those temps to d-carb not bond fat molecules, so I got lost in my research and decided to come ask the experts ;)

    I just finished my batch and did a 12-hour bain-marie infusion, with what looks like @ 150F-170F, so if I need higher temps I'm not sure if I need to put the bowl of goodies in the microwave or oven at higher temps for a while?

    Last thing I want to do is destroy the THC/CBD, but I also don't want to be throwing away pulp with loads of actives still in it.

    I have seriously strong ABV and I usually use an ounce not two, so I have been considering making a small batch of biscuits to test the oil and see how strong it is.

    I made some more truffles with an old batch I keep in the fridge and they aren't that strong, so I guess the proof is in the pudding.

    Here's to some yummy biscuits!
     
    strictly vapor and TeeJay1952 like this.
  4. strictly vapor

    strictly vapor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    130
    Just re-reading this, when I said I used the same temps as you and got good results I was looking at 150 and thinking Celsius. So my last batch was done at a considerably higher temperature.

    This weekend I am doing a batch at 212f, for a very long time, and I will let you know how it turns out!
     
    1DMF likes this.
  5. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,715
    1DMF, brainiac and strictly vapor like this.
  6. strictly vapor

    strictly vapor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    130

    Brilliant. Thanks for posting that. I'm all about lab results for specific techniques right now and this will be a great resource for refining my technique. Can't wait to watch them all later tonight after a nice piece of chocolate!
     
    1DMF likes this.
  7. looney2nz

    looney2nz Research Geek, Mad Scientist

    Messages:
    312
    Location:
    So Cal
    Hope the biscuits were killer :)

    I've only tried the crockpot approach once or twice, most of the time, if I'm making an infused
    oil for cooking I use a double boiler. Can't remember the temp in the upper bowl, but I seem to recall that I got around 160F on low and around 210F on high on a 2-temp crockpot.

    I tend to go around 30-45min on a double boiler with me tending and stirring the oil.

    I pour the oil and plant pulp through a cheesecloth lined large strainer into a pyrex mixing bowl, and then I pick up the cheesecloth, wrap the pulp, start twisting the oil out of the pulp and finally I use a food press (potato ricer will work) to gain some leverage and squeeze like hell. I then take that pulp, I'll throw it into some oil, and then repeat the process (you can then take THAT oil and add flower to it and repeat the whole thing over again).
     
    strictly vapor, 1DMF and brainiac like this.
  8. 1DMF

    1DMF Old School Cheesy Quaver

    Messages:
    963
    Location:
    England
    Interesting link @Baron23 , however, they are using trim and so there is the de-carb THCA issues.

    As I'm using ABV, it has already been de-carb and there is no THCA.

    The ever-clear alcohol to help break down the cellulous sounds interesting, but what they don't appear to tell you is what temperature the crock-pot was set on for the 6 hours?

    Also they mention temperatures at times but not unit, so is it F or C ?

    I guess my bain-marie method is similar to #4, I use a boiling pan of water and a glass bowl, they used a cafetiere in a pan of boiling water.

    What I notice is I simmer over the bain-marie for 12 hours, where as #4 only boils for 2 hours.

    Can anyone advise if this cheap £18.00 crock-pot from Tesco would suffice?

    In fact I probably only need a 1.5L so how about £14.00 for this
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
    strictly vapor likes this.
  9. brainiac

    brainiac Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    North Wales
    @1DMF Wilco do those slow cookers for a tenner.

    Great link.
    Looks to me like method #1 but with added lecithin, as per method #2, would be a good option.
    Was she using lecithin granules? (far too much anyway). For that quantity I'd use a tablespoon of powdered lecithin.
    Also, I only simmer for 3 hours (in bain marie). I'm guessing that to continue simmering beyond that will only very marginally increase the strength of the finished product - but that's only a guess. Perhaps that nice Elise McDonough could check it out for us :)

    Americans usually list temp in farenheit. I use a simmer temperature of just below 100 degrees centigrade.
    If the ABV is a nice even brown then you're probably OK. Any green bits, tho, and it'll be worth that extra de-carb.
     
    1DMF and strictly vapor like this.
  10. 1DMF

    1DMF Old School Cheesy Quaver

    Messages:
    963
    Location:
    England
    cool, I'm sending the missus to Wilco ;)

    Just finished my cookies and you only need one!

    Will do a recipe on a separate thread.
     
    brainiac and strictly vapor like this.
  11. trichome_renaissance

    trichome_renaissance Active Member

    Messages:
    47
    FWIW: Skunk Pharm mentions that cannabis resins become "molten" at just under 180F, increasing the rate at which they dissolve. It's from the glycerin extraction section but I'm sure the same would apply to various oils..

    https://skunkpharmresearch.com/glycerin-extraction/

    Using Temperature:

    Elevating the temperature of the glycerin increases the rate of dissolution of the resins, especially if you raise the temperature high enough for the resins to be molten. THC, CBD and CBN are all molten at just under 180F, so we operate at that temperature.

    The advantage of using as low a temperature as possible, is that fewer aromatic terpenes are boiled off at that low a temperature, and it decarboxylates more slowly, so that the process doesn’t pass the peak of the decarboxylation curve and start down the other side toward low THC and high CBN. As previously noted, we can finish the decarboxylation later.
     
    brainiac, 1DMF, Squiby and 1 other person like this.
  12. strictly vapor

    strictly vapor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    130
    16 hours with double boiler - temp stays in the 85-100 Celsius range. Worth the effort :D
     
    Squiby and brainiac like this.
  13. brainiac

    brainiac Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    North Wales
    Vital work and impressive dedication to the task :tup:
    Simmer duration to achieve optimum Infusion times vary wildly in the online literature.
    Take this for example:

    Place the starting material and coconut oil in a crock-pot on low for 2-3 hours. If a slow cooker is not available, you can use a tin foil covered, oven-safe dish at 220°F for 2-3 hours. Keep in mind that if you infuse the oil for longer than 3 hours, some of the THC can begin to convert to CBN, making the effects more sedative.

    You can read the rest of the article here
    It'd be great to see some lab tests done on this subject.

    Hope you had a good extractor fan!
     
    Squiby, 1DMF and strictly vapor like this.
  14. WhoistheDoctor

    WhoistheDoctor New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Have any of you guys went any further with any of these methods, thoughts, ideas? I am doing research and this will be my first attempt at this whole deal. If what I have as an idea of how this works scientifically/chemically is correct, then I am reading bits and pieces of the exact controlled experiement I want to conduct scattered in your posts. The name of this site says it all. I get some relief, but from what I have been reading on the benefits other ways of consumption, I have not touched the surface on the possible medicine I am wasting in literal smoke. I hopeI can pick your brains and get this operational.
     

Support FC, visit our trusted friends and sponsors