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Terribly confused by pens...

Discussion in 'Ask FC' started by GenYHippie, Feb 23, 2014.

  1. GenYHippie

    GenYHippie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Southern California
    Ive been learning but im still very very confused on what type I should look for...

    Ideally I want it to do -
    Wax
    Oil
    Glycerin concentrates
    Alcohol concentrates

    But I will accept any combo thereof as long as it does multiple formulation (IE not just oil or just glycerin).

    The atmos bullet to go and atmos a-pen have both been recommended and are reasonably priced. Though I don't know what ongoing maintenance replacement parts are required. The really important thing for me is tanks/chambers I can fill myself.

    Anyone have a moment to school me in pens or point me to where I can learn more specifics so I know what products to consider? My solo is great for starting but not what I want for a quick out on the town hit.
     
    Bushape likes this.
  2. Caligula

    Caligula Maximus

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  3. SpruceGruve

    SpruceGruve Bag of sand in hand,Eyeing up the gold statue

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    Now a days I would only ever consider buying a atmos style pen and atomizers if I KNEW I would be throwing it away after a day or two of use......not worth the money unless you want something for a concert or something like that
     
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  4. Caligula

    Caligula Maximus

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    LOL and even then id just buy unbranded parts off of Fasttech for 1/3 the cost and make my own.
     
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  5. SpruceGruve

    SpruceGruve Bag of sand in hand,Eyeing up the gold statue

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    Your completely right.....but i personally would find it harder to throw away/give away a good product compared to a crappy product
     
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  6. GenYHippie

    GenYHippie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    494
    Location:
    Southern California
    Thanks so much for the link and input. I was a bit skeptical of the atmos since people say their herb pens combust rather than vape which my lungs cant take. Since so many people do smoke it didn't seem to bug them. I am off to investigate all the suggestions. Hope to keep it at around $60 for a first pen as the concentrates or buying herb to make my own will cost at least $50 which is a lot of expense to absorb at one time.

    I like my delivery service but im going to have to do some shopping because their order minimum is a bit high. And they only have two tincitures neither are strains ive tried.
     
  7. Patrick Hughes

    Patrick Hughes Stoneman

    Messages:
    240
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    a lot of people like the Dr. Dabber... I don't have one but it's highly reviewed. If I decide to get another of these, that's what I would go with.
    link:http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/the-dr-dabber-pen.10680/
    store link:http://drdabber.com/pens
    They are $85, which is not bad for a non garbage pen.
    I have had many types of inexpensive hash pen, and they have all let me down. I have found a better setup to be well worth the investment.

    The glycerin requirement is tough, because most of those all-in-ones are not very good. You could maybe try an e-cig mod with different atomizers though.
    Good luck
     
  8. GenYHippie

    GenYHippie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    494
    Location:
    Southern California
    Thank you I will check it out see if I can find a deal somewhere. If I can keep up with my solo I may try to wait another month and go up a price bracket.

    The glycerin thing does make it complicates so does the fact that most sites are lousy advertizers and only speak in generic terms like "extracted plant compounds". Im just concerned that alcohol base will be to irritating to me. Most wax, shatter, etc is arounf $50-$60 a gram here so it would be nice not to have to buy different pens on top of that.

    As I understand it (and can be entirely wrong lol) is that many of these items have the same type of connector so you can keep the battery and use different tanks/mouth pieces/attachments. Is that close?

    Ok so ive been off exploring the options mentioned and it seems that I should aim for an oil/wax/shatter pen right? Ive read about people doing glycerin on cotton in the solo or other vapes so I suppose i can try that. Seems like I should eliminate the alcohol options entirely. From reading reviews it seems like too much work to get it to a point where it wont be to harsh or ruin the pen.

    So when a pen can do wax does that mean I could do infused coconut oil? I can do small scale infusions in my crock pot so I wouldn't have to go high volume on buying herb just to try it out. Coconut oil is thick but it melts to liquid. Ive never seen wax, hash, shatter, etch in person so I don't know how they behave. Ive sen some videos but they weren't vaping it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2014
  9. Patrick Hughes

    Patrick Hughes Stoneman

    Messages:
    240
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    sounds like you are on the right track.

    I have 0 doubt that you could do that with the pens mentioned, although I think the melting point of coconut oil is below 80 degrees, so if you carry it loaded it might leak. I definitely have not ever heard of vaping coconut oil.... you might love it.

    the concentrates are solid (more solid than coconut oil) at room temp, and melt completely with heat.
     
  10. GenYHippie

    GenYHippie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    494
    Location:
    Southern California
    Thanks Patrick Hughes :). Yes coconut oil is solid at 73F or below. I am by the coast but our average warm temp is under 80. I took a look at other dispensaries its a bummer more don't sell herb by the gram down here. Makes it cheaper to try. did find girl scout cookie in a full melt at a lower price though(lab tested as well) . I do for sure want to carry it loaded so I think I will have to save up for a wax or such once I try a few more strains available that way. I wanted to know about the coconut oil since its handy for edible making if I could also vape it. Plus that way I can make strains that aren't typically available.

    For instance so far Jack Herer stain has been the best result for me but not once dispensary on weedmaps has it near me. Such a small place leafly only has one dispensary listed lol. I have a few more to try to see what balance of THC to CBD seems to work. I do really want to try the GSC next order though and a purple
     
  11. Snake Plissken

    Snake Plissken Transcendentalist

    Messages:
    306
    Location:
    Oregon
    unless someone knows something I don't, you use coconut concoctions as edibles or topicals not vape them.

    I looked long and hard at vape pens and didn't come up w/ much. I don't need big dablike hits. I want a reasonable load, fast production and long lasting battery. While the expensive pens might be somewhat better than ecig setups, they didn't seem that much better. I ended up getting the fasttech setup while I was looking. I will definitely go a different route next time as it took 3 attempts and 2 months to make it to me on the slow boat from fasttech. I ended up getting 5 setups and doodads for $70. I grabbed a 5 pack of 1100 Mah variable voltage batteries w/ battery indicator led (510 thread), a 5 pack of lower resistance attys (phoenix w/ a wick) A couple of battery chargers, and doodads at that price.
    I love the batteries, they last forever (probably 3 days of constant use and more than a week of intermittent use). The attys, I'd like to find something better for less than $25-$35 a pop. I like the fat skillets, but would like the coil to be lower and a ceramic wick maybe.

    W/ a 510 threaded battery you could attach compatible attys, carts or tanks. There are plenty of adapters to use for parts w/ a different thread. If nothing else, it's a good, cheap starting place to see what you do or don't like. It works great for me, I just need to find reasonably priced skillets that are a little better.
     
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  12. GenYHippie

    GenYHippie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    494
    Location:
    Southern California
    All I have to go by is what ive read around the net cant vouch for reliability. I saw someone in a video using infused oils in the MFLB tray setup for vaping.

    The variable voltage sounds nice. Im guessing that's the equivalent of temp control for pens? The idea of one battery with optional add ons sounds like a good isea
     
  13. xRUFUSx

    xRUFUSx special like everyone else

    Messages:
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    Location:
    In my head
    Check out mah sig. This is just my experience and some food for thought.

    In 2010 I switched from cigs to vaping nicotine/glycerin, and my shopping for all things 510 started. My first year I used mostly pen-style (eGo's and some knock-offs) batteries and non-servicable atomizers. They got the job done but they're all broken and gone.

    Arg I almost started a journal entry on my APV romance. What I'm trying to say is:
    (links are from Fasttech - clones of US stuff from China)
    :worms::worms:Get a mechanical 18650 battery mod (or this), some good 18650 batteries, a universal charger, and an eGo thread adapter for good measure. (you'll need one for all cheap 510 attachments, including globes) For under $50, you'll have reliable power for all your 510 stuff for at least 1-2 years. Maybe get more batteries for $10 in 2017. Don't subscribe to disposable electronics! There's lots more goodies to try in this can of worms, and it goes deep...


    Pen-style stuff is cheap. When you do find a basic design you can live with, make sure it's cheap, because you'll probably run through your backups every few months. If you're using it heavily, the battery won't last all day. The good news is, its fairly plug-and-play, and buying the stuff once isn't too expensive.
    Fast Forward: Got MMJ card. Got some wax for the first time. Ordered a globe setup from Divine Tribe, and the base fell apart in about 2 weeks. After rebuilding ecig atties myself for about 2 years now, I kinda just refused to buy more disposable stuff since that policy has worked out ok for all my nicotine/glycerin consumption.
    Grabbed an old stainless steel RBA that I put on the shelf because the air flow was too tight for ecig vapor. There's no ceramic cup reservoir but a single dab sticks onto the wick/coil just fine. I'm happy with my one hitter setup - it can hit harder than I can handle, and hooked up to my bubbler it's great. It takes me about a minute to load a dab (when i go fast with bho i make a mess) onto the coils with a dental pick, put the cap back on, get my stuff put back away etc.

    What I want doesn't seem to exist. Simple dripping RBA's are a good design but all steel is a bummer. Imagine this piece, but the reservoir where the posts are would be ceramic (coated at least?), and the top cover would be glass.
    http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10004437/1391309-phoenix-nimbus2-rebuildable-dripping-atomizer

    Help I can't stop rambling
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014
  14. Caligula

    Caligula Maximus

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    http://www.vaporwarehouse.com/store/p/218-O-PHOS-Portable-Vaporizer-Kit.html


    http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/can-i-vape-cannaoil.11594/
     
  15. Snake Plissken

    Snake Plissken Transcendentalist

    Messages:
    306
    Location:
    Oregon
    The vv batts allow you to use attys w/ different resistance. A lower resistance atty will hit harder/hotter, but kill weaker batts. There are many w/ vastly more knowledge than me in this area. It seems like most who mess w/ rda's and such are looking for power and massive hits. I'm looking for portability, stealth, long batt life and 'good' hits. I also don't want to be loading per hit, I don't need it to hold a gram - but 10-20 pulls minimum. If I get 5 whole setups for less than the price of 1 higher end unit, that higher end unit really has to offer me something special. Not saying it's not out there, just that I haven't figured it out yet.

    Here are a couple of good charts for matching batts to attys:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Lo

    Lo Combustion free since '09

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    Good info on pens/RBA's given.

    RE: Vaping coconut oil - I would caution against that unless you find something I don't know about it.

    Generally oils foul up atomizers and are not something people seek to vape outside of MJ. Also worth noting is coating the lungs with oils is not necessarily desirable and there is no data out there on vaping coconut oil. Lastly, the temps atomizers reach may or may not vaporize coconut oil, if too high it could smoke, too low and would be useless.

    I'd stick to edibles/topicals for coconut oil for me personally.

    VG tinctures are a mixed bag for pens. Generally people that can get wax/oil/shatter would prefer to use those. I experimented for a long time with tinctures that could be vaped in e-cigs. If I got them strong enough to be useful - they would quickly foul up the atomizers. If I got them to vape well they wouldn't be strong enough to be worth using. VG tincture taken orally = is divine though ;) Like weedy honey ;)
     
  17. RUDE BOY

    RUDE BOY Space is the Place

    Messages:
    2,847
    I find wax/oil to be much rougher on my lungs @GenYHippie. They always make me cough and send me into That vapor gasp reaction.
     
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  18. Lo

    Lo Combustion free since '09

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    Good point Rude Boy. I also find that people who start using concentrates push their tolerance up A LOT...and then many can't enjoy herb as they previously did. I'd use here/there but I wouldn't use concentrates regularly personally though I know many people do/will. I like my herb :D
     
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  19. xRUFUSx

    xRUFUSx special like everyone else

    Messages:
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    Location:
    In my head
    Ah the vapor gasp. I'm pretty sure that's your lungs freaking out from so much THC (wax is 60%-90%). I'm new to dabbing but I can avoid this discomfort by either taking smaller rips or more "even" rips - I can't let concentrated vapor sit in my upper respiratory system or it hurts. If I fill the chamber, then clear it, I'm fine.

    Again, if I take a long slow rip with a bubbler or pen it hurts - the stuff sits in my airpathways during the second half of the hit. If I distribute the stress of the hit evenly by filling my glassware, then clearing, it's much more pleasant. If you only have a pen, try to inhale more quickly to get the vapor deeper into your respiratory system (spread the love), or 1:1 hit/carb so there's more air in your hit - most pen atties' draw is not adjustable unfortunately. More reasons to use a RBA imo.

    Vapor-gasp (i call it lung-vice) means you just absorbed a shit-ton of THC [citation needed]. Yeah it hurts but it's working. I've recently learned to take more frequent, smaller rips for comfort and to keep my tolerance reasonable.

    edit: I've noticed cold/ice filtration makes it "worse." Warm glass/water is comparably soothing - try it!
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2014
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  20. GenYHippie

    GenYHippie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    494
    Location:
    Southern California
    Wow lots of great info to go over thank you all! Will start after dinner and reply as I go. Thanks again for being so helpful to the clueless folk :)
     
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  21. GenYHippie

    GenYHippie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    494
    Location:
    Southern California
    Sometimes I think all I do is cause myself confusion ;P. Ive been reading up on all the info you all posted plus some more things I came across while looking at those and a visit to the headshop.... All in all I think id end up wasting more wax than I used.

    I could also see myself burning out a lot of carts for leaving them loaded for too long. I think if I just going to load to go and finish it that day I should go with a cartomizer.... Right now even if I had a pen and wax it would probably get used once or twice ever 2 weeks which just isn't practical.

    Using something that does liquids at least I know id be able to make it and use it for other things like edibles. Now if I can just find one that doesn't leak all over.

    I figure to do this cheaply with decent quality I should do piece by piece...what do you think? 510's seems to have the most atty options so I could start with a better quality variable battery to give me some of the control I like about the Solo. Then find a cartomizer, then a mouthpiece, and finally a case. Does that seem like it would work?

    Though I love the idea of wax and dabber pens im thinking its not as practical as id hope it would be. Im a light user still doing a lot of trial and error.
     
  22. Lo

    Lo Combustion free since '09

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    2,838
    Location:
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    Honestly, unless you get e-cig like things that are proven to work, you may end up disappointed. Many of the offerings are just rebranded e-cigs that are overpriced, overhyped.

    Dig around the areas pasted below, some people are having some success with the globe type tanks that have 510 threading. There are also a lot of people posting about experiences with different e-cig style setups here:

    http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/advanced-e-cig-users-and-oil-wax-how-to-one-hitter-quitter.10360/

    http://fuckcombustion.com/forums/e-cig-based-portables.43/
     
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  23. GenYHippie

    GenYHippie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    494
    Location:
    Southern California
    Thanks for the tips. This stuff is just darn hard at times. Since most people don't speak openly about MJ its hard to get a clear answer on what does and doesn't work. Thank you for the links im a nerd by nature so reading is my thing :). I will look into those marketed as e-cigs more. When I looked at them before most you had to buy tanks for. I will look for ones I can fill that have a good reputation.
     
  24. xRUFUSx

    xRUFUSx special like everyone else

    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    In my head
    *rebuildables are a :worms: and I need to test more before making recommendations, so besides those...

    The viscosity of your MMJ concentrate will be the biggest determining factor in what ecig atty will work.

    Concerning ecig marketed items... Nicotine e-liquid is pretty thin. Most ecig hardware is designed to hold 1-5ml, and a wick feeds the heating coil, keeping it wet. If it wicks too fast, it leaks/gurgles, too slow and you get burnt hits (burning PG/VG is gross).

    If your MMJ is cut with vegetable glycerin or propylene glycol, you can't burn it.
    For vaping PG/VG safely with good taste, the coil temp/wick-speed sweet spot is very finite. The MMJ/VG/PG tincture will be thicker than any normal nic-juice, so be sure the atty at least handles 100% VG very well. VV or VW devices are imo essential because they help deal with variability between batteries and coils and will help keep your temps right while you research. Treat it like a food product as it's taste is EASILY affected by charred/blackened bits.

    Many (imo most) tank atties perform poorly at less than 1/3 full.

    I do have one recommendation: An old school drip atty like this one or this one (Joyetech is THE name brand) is good for liquid MMJ imo. I started liking vaping nic-juice thanks to these - big enough tasty hits to satisfy a smoker of 15 years, and cheap enough to be sustainable. Put 4-5 drops in a new or newly cleaned one, then 2-3 drops when it starts tasting a little dry (this method for very thin juice, maybe more for thick) It's a pain to reload so often, but it's cheap, stealthy, and tastes great. I heard of people using these for wax too. As a daily-driver and chain-vaping, one of these lasts me 2-6 weeks. Get a 510 drip tip too, the included tips suck.

    edit: @GenYHippie The 510 drip atty as I'm recommending it assumes you don't use the included tip or filler material. Just drip right into a real drip tip while it's attached to the atty (unless using wax - remove tip). A tip with a large circular opening can make a decent seal on a male 14mm or 18mm GG too. Not hands free without modding or paying $$ but fun still. I like stainless steel, avoid acrylic and chrome plated brass, delrin ok also very comfortable on the teeth/lips.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2014
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  25. GenYHippie

    GenYHippie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    494
    Location:
    Southern California
    Ok after reading and looking maybe something like this - http://www.crimsonvapor.com/product_p/cv-ce5plus.htm - ? Dont know about that vendor but I like that its not all plastic and that you can replace the heating element. Not sure how to know if it works with variable batteries..... Meh my head is to tired tobe doing this tonight. Will be back at it when better rested
     

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