So how much do you think of Terpene's?

[herbivore21]

So do any dispensaries (in CO, WA, OR , CA when rec) carry a true 6 star Bubble like this?
And what would a typical price be for such goodness??

Thanks

I have not seen or heard of much retail hash of this quality. I think this is mostly because hash that is this good becomes the head stash of the person who made it, and even at the largest commercial level, this stuff is liable to be bought by dispensary staff/buddies of the extract artist before it hits shelves. What I do know is that you should expect to spend upwards of $100 or much more per g (I have heard of $200-300 price ranges for this kind of thing in legal retail states like CA and WA - prices are not quite so steep in CO IIRC and I do not know of medicine of this quality being available anywhere in OR yet)!

High quality full melt like this is definitely best had by making it yourself - this I can help you with (but remember yields are really low and there is always trial and error learning new extraction techniques, bubble is very unforgiving for the beginner!)

 

[cobra505]

And then 420 comes out with this:
http://www.420magazine.com/forums/i...n-things-know-about-terpenes.html#post3095542
It's more interesting reading than anything, but good, different outlook at least I thought so.

 

[herbivore21]

And then 420 comes out with this:
http://www.420magazine.com/forums/i...n-things-know-about-terpenes.html#post3095542
It's more interesting reading than anything, but good, different outlook at least I thought so.

A different outlook? lol man I dunno about that, myself and probably many others round here have said every single one of these claims before

All are very well established knowledge on terpenes

Here's another one - Different terpenes are observed at different heights on the same plant. It is hypothesised that this serves the purpose of protecting against the pests that are found at each various altitude!

 

[MinnBobber]

Here's another one - Different terpenes are observed at different heights on the same plant. It is hypothesised that this serves the purpose of protecting against the pests that are found at each various altitude!

That makes perfect sense, special terps at lower heights on the plant to ward of ground creatures and different terps at higher heights to ward of birds.

 

[herbivore21]

That makes perfect sense, special terps at lower heights on the plant to ward of ground creatures and different terps at higher heights to ward of birds.

It does seem to be more related to controlling various insects than anything else in the explanations I've seen - but I can't rule out that there may be some taller varieties out there where terps serve to prevent predation by birds (maybe some of those equatorial narrow leaf trees like they grow in places like Mauritius perhaps?).

 

[MinnBobber]

but I can't rule out that there may be some taller varieties out there where terps serve to prevent predation by birds (maybe some of those equatorial narrow leaf trees like they grow in places like Mauritius perhaps?).

...........................................................
Birds are nature's "seed distribution system" , eat 'em and poop 'em on the fly.

 

[jirodreamsofbooty]

I'm skeptical in regard to terpenes as we know them. They're present in such small concentrations (often under one percent by weight) it's difficult to see that they'd have much effect - particularly factoring in loss via vaping or burning.

They might be - but it would

Even one commonly talked about, myrcene. Steep Hill and others argue that it's the couch-lock terpenoid - but I saw a High Times analysis of contest-winning sativas and indicas found that sativas have a greater percentage of myrcene in general.

Assuming you vaped an entire gram in one session - if it has 1% myrcene that's 10mg myrcene, assume some loss via delivery. How bioactive is... 7mg of mycene?

 

[MinnBobber]

Even one commonly talked about, myrcene. Steep Hill and others argue that it's the couch-lock terpenoid - but I saw a High Times analysis of contest-winning sativas and indicas found that sativas have a greater percentage of myrcene in general.

Assuming you vaped an entire gram in one session - if it has 1% myrcene that's 10mg myrcene, assume some loss via delivery. How bioactive is... 7mg of mycene?

........................................................................................
Terps are not just "stand-alone" substances. Myrcene, for example, seems to prep your endocannabinoid (ECS) receptors to take in more THC etc.
Terps may be small in quantity but can be big in effects, as the entourage effect must be considered. That's why synthetic THC is so poor of a medicine compared to THC + CBD + tiny amounts of terps = much more than the mere sum of their individual effects.

 

[AVENTUS]

This bubble hash (yes, it is hash that looks like shatter lol) is the kind of material that makes it clear that mo' terpenes (even with less THC) = mo' psychoactivity. 6 star Bubble like this tends to have THC levels similar to the low or mid level THC containing solvent extracts, but this is because it is made up of unruptured capitate stalked trichome glands extracted at extremely cold temperatures and stored in the same way - this means total terpene percentages that can more than triple what is found in BHO from the same flowers, or double that of a good rosin!.

Amen again!

1. Can you please post some lab results from what you consider 6-star bubble hash ? tests with terps and flavonoid levels too, if possible ?

2. Is it at least 75% THC and at least 15% terpenes ?

3. Have you ever vaped 6-star bubble in a low-temp coil-free ceramic vape pen, or dabbed it at less than 450'Fahrenheit ?

 

[herbivore21]

Amen again!

1. Can you please post some lab results from what you consider 6-star bubble hash ? tests with terps and flavonoid levels too, if possible ?

2. Is it at least 75% THC and at least 15% terpenes ?

3. Have you ever vaped 6-star bubble in a low-temp coil-free ceramic vape pen, or dabbed it at less than 450'Fahrenheit ?

1. Flavonoid tests are not frequently run by testing laboratories so it will be difficult to give those results. I have posted some great results from SClabs in the past that I've noticed on good 6 star bubbles as examples. I am in a scenario myself where I cannot share tests from my own material for reasons beyond my control.

There was a 20%+ cannabis cup winner in particular that would have been a great example but test results don't seem to be there anymore. I must have looked it up for the first time last year or the year before. I might have a look again later in the day and see if I can dig up some good ones, SC have very few results for bubble right now and they are not inspiring lol.

2. you will not find 75% THC and 15% terps in anything that hasn't been subjected to various isolation/chromatography techniques. There are no extracts whether BHO, QWISO, QWET, bubble, sift or rosin that will be 100% made up of THC and terps. This betrays a misunderstanding of the essential oil content of the plant and of the testing labs doing the tests. Testing labs do not generally provide a complete breakdown of the entire content of a concentrate (accounting for 100% of the content that is). This is because they do not have testing standards for a number of the compounds that may be present aside from our usual cannabinoids and terps.

When it comes to hashes made of whole, unruptured resin glands: it should be noted that these contain the secretory cells as well as the gland membrane (aside from the secretory cavity where our fave cannabinoids and terps are found in abundance!). The secretory glands will contribute inactive material and various precursors/synthases related to what is secreted into the gland cavity by the given chemovar. For this reason, small parts of what is found in the resin are not going to come back identified by your testing lab. Testing labs to my current knowledge do not have standards for these minor portions of the total content. They would probably not be justified by cost at this point.

65% THC and 15% terps or more is quite possible though Also I reliably find that the effects of concentrates with levels like this (or less THC still!) are indescribably better in effect and flavor than those solvent extracts with higher THC content. THC is the boring wallflower who seems to come out of his shell when more terps arrive to the party! If poor THC gets left on his lonesome or the party doesn't get enough guests, then THC remains pretty boring by comparison

3. I have dabbed full melt in a ceramic donut, but it really didn't give me complete vaporization and felt wasteful. I was using a VW, but not temp controlled mod. I do not find that ceramic donut's get enough heat quickly enough to melt up the hit (full melt requires time and a slight extra bit of heat to first melt, then boil) and finish it in a reasonable timeframe. I don't use pens at all anymore. I never liked donuts, nice concept but can't seem to heat quick enough without cracking.

Wick and coil pens are useless for my needs, the coils get gunked up with polymerization byproducts that are fucking impossible to fully clean. I prefer the dynavap products (omnivap especially) for concentrates to pens, which I personally really don't like. The omnivap is so much smaller than any pen too!

Typically, I consume full melt on my sapphire halo (soon my sapphire liger too). I have consumed at 450f or lower, but typically find 490f to be best on my sapphire halo. <450f the melt takes too long and the hit takes forever without noticeable flavor benefit. Usually, I save the 6 star material for the sapphire nails only (too good to experience any other way!). The 5 star can go into my dynavap and vapexnails.

 

[jirodreamsofbooty]

........................................................................................
Terps are not just "stand-alone" substances. Myrcene, for example, seems to prep your endocannabinoid (ECS) receptors to take in more THC etc.
Terps may be small in quantity but can be big in effects, as the entourage effect must be considered. That's why synthetic THC is so poor of a medicine compared to THC + CBD + tiny amounts of terps = much more than the mere sum of their individual effects.

As I said, I'm skeptical - not ruling out potential effects but not convinced as of yet. Cannabis research is barely in its infancy. I wouldn't rule out a great deal of placebo effect based on how a strain is presented given similar levels of THC/CBD in particular (ie a couch-lock strain vs. an energizing strain that are both 20% THC/.1% CBD)

The entourage effect is real certainly - but THC and CBD (and THCV in strains no one sees like Doug's Varin and the Willie Nelson product) can be present in much, much higher concentrations than any terpenes. Even with the comparison to synthetic THC - there are a lot of strains that test out with high percentages of THC and almost nonexistent CBD, but they don't seem to have the same downsides as synthetic THC drugs. (for the record, my preference would be a good balance of THC and CBD, one of the exciting prospects of legalization to me is wider availability of flower that's not just super-high THC and negligible for every everything else)

Terpenes are present in other smokeable and vape-able substances but it's generally agreed that the effects of those are minimal at best.

 

[darbarikanada]

I reliably find that the effects of concentrates with levels like this (or less THC still!) are indescribably better in effect and flavor

no convincing necessary re flavor - but could you elaborate on 'better'? more potent?

 

[herbivore21]

no convincing necessary re flavor - but could you elaborate on 'better'? more potent?

A much more psychadelic effect is found when using higher terpene containing concentrates in addition to the flavor benefit. The nature of this effect is likely to be as varied as the chemical profiles found in cannabis chemotypes (varieties are not specific enough a classifier here lol). I find that higher terpene containing extracts seem to have a more lasting effect. This may vary with chemotype too though!

 

[darbarikanada]

thanks again herbivore!

 

[zenmasterofzinfandel]

What I do know is that you should expect to spend upwards of $100 or much more per g (I have heard of $200-300 price ranges for this kind of thing in legal retail states like CA and WA - prices are not quite so steep in CO IIRC and I do not know of medicine of this quality being available anywhere in OR yet)!

Up north@Cannacruz, they have 6* bubbleman Cheese Bomb@$30/0.5g, not bad...only 1 strain :-(

https://weedmaps.com/dispensaries/cannacruz#/menu/cheese-bomb-hash-by-bubbleman-hash

How much do we think of purple color C&Cream rosin??? ;p @$240/g? Fad? added food coloring? I been reading, catching up on the concentrates threads on FC past few wks...laborious/tedious, but worth it. I'm in So. Cal, NorCal seems to have more extract companies, EmeraldCup being the center of the universe . I could find 6* for <$100, but not easy, competition should bring the prices down in a year or so, I hope. $55/g is lowest I could find from Alchemy Extracts, which they claim from their site, is all hand-made 6* (I know, herbivore don't like that association with alchemists). My bad, it's Emerald Alchemy, sava only has the 5* instock currently, but they ship anywhere in CA. https://www.getsava.com/shop/emerald-alchemy-cold-water-hash/

http://theemeraldmagazine.com/2016/12/emerald-alchemy/ <all female owned, article on them here



One of the most comprehensive concentrates dispensary I know of locally, has some silly expensive high-end producer stuff...including that 'purple rosin'.

Edit:self- 2nd post merged: as far as what herbivore is saying about terps, seems there are any number of extract companies now coming out with terp only liquids. Steam distillation for one. I found that higher terps in concentrates, causes coughing...lung irritation. I'm wondering if that is what caused those super strains of years gone by, to induce gagging cough 1st time you try such a super potent strain. I'm thinking of what was reputed to be Kona Gold I had in 1978, small pinch of doob off of a bud, into a brass hash pipe, thick as milky whole milk, as compared to vaping/combustion of all herb since then...mostly low-fat to skimmilk watery thin 'smoke'/vapor.

I know the viscosity additives in e-juice carts give pretty thick clouds from those additives, but not nearly as thick as that KG I had in 1978. So, was it a high concentration of terps that did that, was responsible for effects I cannot come close to in any modern strains???

 

[herbivore21]

Up north@Cannacruz, they have 6* bubbleman Cheese Bomb@$30/0.5g, not bad...only 1 strain :-(

https://weedmaps.com/dispensaries/cannacruz#/menu/cheese-bomb-hash-by-bubbleman-hash

How much do we think of purple color C&Cream rosin??? ;p @$240/g? Fad? added food coloring? I been reading, catching up on the concentrates threads on FC past few wks...laborious/tedious, but worth it. I'm in So. Cal, NorCal seems to have more extract companies, EmeraldCup being the center of the universe . I could find 6* for <$100, but not easy, competition should bring the prices down in a year or so, I hope. $55/g is lowest I could find from Alchemy Extracts, which they claim from their site, is all hand-made 6* (I know, herbivore don't like that association with alchemists). My bad, it's Emerald Alchemy, sava only has the 5* instock currently, but they ship anywhere in CA. https://www.getsava.com/shop/emerald-alchemy-cold-water-hash/

http://theemeraldmagazine.com/2016/12/emerald-alchemy/ <all female owned, article on them here



One of the most comprehensive concentrates dispensary I know of locally, has some silly expensive high-end producer stuff...including that 'purple rosin'.

Edit:self- 2nd post merged: as far as what herbivore is saying about terps, seems there are any number of extract companies now coming out with terp only liquids. Steam distillation for one. I found that higher terps in concentrates, causes coughing...lung irritation. I'm wondering if that is what caused those super strains of years gone by, to induce gagging cough 1st time you try such a super potent strain. I'm thinking of what was reputed to be Kona Gold I had in 1978, small pinch of doob off of a bud, into a brass hash pipe, thick as milky whole milk, as compared to vaping/combustion of all herb since then...mostly low-fat to skimmilk watery thin 'smoke'/vapor.

I know the viscosity additives in e-juice carts give pretty thick clouds from those additives, but not nearly as thick as that KG I had in 1978. So, was it a high concentration of terps that did that, was responsible for effects I cannot come close to in any modern strains???

Hard to say on that purple rosin brother. I have heard of all kinds of crazy colored compounds being fractioned out of different varieties of cannabis. It is possible that this particular material that they squished had enough of something so-colored to give us that final product without additives. I would never accuse somebody of adding something like this if I didn't have some pretty good evidence personally.

That cost for rosin, holy shit man it had better be a lot better than the full melt which can be found cheaper! Not saying it is impossible, but not saying that it is likely either!

Full melt from flowers can always be reasonably expected to cost 2-4x as much as BHO or rosin from the same flowers. You get 2-4x more BHO or rosin out of the same flowers than if you made full melt from them!!! Full melt from trim is still gonna cost a lot of money. Given that yields are negligible when running trim for full melt vs solvents or even rosin.

One major question is this: Is that rosin from hash, or flower? If it was made from hash, then you would need to consider the value of the starting hash, the additional labor rosining the material and the loss of yield. I would expect hash rosin pressed from high quality hash to be more valuable than flower rosin because of these factors.

$55 per gram of full melt if it is genuine 6 star is amazing pricing if it came from flowers! If from trim, still pretty good! From high end (but not absolute best-of-the-best) nugs at Cali wholesale prices (no I'm not telling you guys what those are - I only know this information because gave my word not to share it), you would expect your own cost if making it DIY like I do to be somewhere around that. Maybe a bit less.

I hope this helps you guys get some idea of what is a fair price for these higher quality extracts from a processing point of view

A number of terpenes and terpenoids are known respiratory irritants in low concentrations (the various pinenes are major culprits among many others). Not all of them are though, some profiles will cause more coughing than others with higher overall terp concentrations.

I have long said around here that using terp fractions in a way that what you dab has a higher terp percentage than what we find in the resin glands in nature is risky and to be avoided.

The products we're talking about here aren't pure terps either, strictly speaking. Pure terps would refer to individual isolated terpenes. What we are talking about here are 'terpene only fractions' extracted from cannabis - usually from fractional distillation or some variation of this method.

As to what produces the most clouds, that is a very difficult question to answer, especially when we discuss an historic sample of material from the 70's lol. As you point out, plenty of non-cannabis actives can produce huge clouds when heated.

 

[WeAreVenom]

Without terpenes, THC would make me too paranoid and I wouldn't be able to enjoy marijuana comfortably.

 

[Silat]

I am too paranoid to think about terps while I am vaping product with virtually no terp count.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

**Posted in the wrong thread**

 

[zenmasterofzinfandel]

I have a couple of BM's 'flower terp rosin' I have tested. Not impressed. From the distributor locally, the Grape Ape? was packaged in a sealed foil wrapper that stated 2 drops of cannabis derived (from Tony V, guess) terps have been added.

I'll post up some pix of all the hash/rosins I have sourced over the last month or so, soon. So far, I'm getting more terp flavors from runny rosin, than dry sift 99% pure sieve, 6*, 10/10 Rize ice wax/water hash. Then there are the full-spectrum ice waxes, I tried against the Rize 70U Sour Tangie...not noticed a difference yet. Surprise so far, is Frenchy Cannoli rosin & temple balls hash(not really a temple ball, but close enough)...very complex, different from all others, but hard to describe, still need to eval any effects that are diff, not noticing much so far.

Saw a pix in my searching of A5Haze dry sift...now if I could only grow out my heirloom seeds, Kona Gold from the 1970's, dry sift that, give me 7% + *proper* terp/cannabinoid complex (that so far, cannot be replicated by 'adding' back, increasing terp levels, etc).

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=207668

DJShort on icmag (where BM is a moderator):

Another interesting note is that the herb I describe as ‘The Best’ tested at approx. 7% THC! Some of the Maui Sativa appeared to have reached 10%. Obviously, something(s) other than THC is (are) playing an important role in the finished product and its overall character. Which brings us to the issue of ‘bland potency’.

‘Bland potency’ is the term I apply to the effects of much of the currently commercial available ‘dank’ (bud). Overpowering, ‘stupefying’, cloudy, suppressive, ‘clenchy’ symptoms that do not lend to a very enjoyable experience, is my opinion of much of this said ‘dank’. I understand and respect the specific medical needs for such a powerful distraction. Managing strong pain meds is a good example of such need. However, the subtler character possible from high quality herb is all-too-often overlooked due to bland potency’s overbearing presence.

It’s easy to understand how this situation came to be when considering that the primary reward to the novice grower is potency. Coupled with the fact that potency is relatively easy to replicate and bolster (as is yield), the problem tends to expand as more and more enter the industry.

All strains currently, more or less (or my brain has become 'acclimated' to effects such that it compensates) cause me dred 'bland potency' problems, indica/hybrid/sativa strains I can all get@ over >30% lab tested THC.