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Side effects of inhaling hot vapor

Discussion in 'Medical Discussion' started by pickmita, Aug 14, 2017.

  1. pickmita

    pickmita Well-Known Member

    Hi FC!

    Smoke is -hands down- way worst than vapor, no doubt about it: it gives me sore throat, I get black phlegm and lots of coughs. After a while, smoking kinda numbs my cough reaction so I cough less and less (nice bong hits are smoother, I agree with that). Vaporizing is way better in my opinion: no black phlegm, little coughs, no smoke smell. However, I think there's one thing one should consider when discussing the healthy aspects of vapor: temperature.

    So I started to worry about the side effects of inhaling hot vapor, mainly because:

    -We vaporize for years.
    -Each session lasts around ten to twenty minutes depending of the vaporizer (things like VapCaps give shorter sessions I think).
    -Unless we use glass attachments, the vapor path is relatively short and warm/hot.

    Basically, we are sipping hot vapor out of a "hot pipe" (short glass, plastic, metal, whatever) in our mouths for ten minutes or more, several times a day for years. In my experience, high temperatures give me a sore throat after a while, so much that, sometimes, I cannot stand the hot vapor anymore. I have an Arizer Air and even at low temperatures (blue, white or even green) I find myself wanting to plug some king of glass bong to the vaporizer just to make the vapor more bearable (which I do btw and the sore throat disappears). If I vaporize two to three times a day (without bongs, just the default mouth piece of the AA), for days, I start to develop a sore throat and a overall dry mouth due to the hot vapor.

    So I started to google trying to find the possible side effects of this and found that, in general, having hot things in our mouths for a relatively long time, day after day, for years... has been, in some studies, linked to things like mouth cancer. For example, warm/hot pipes in "mate" (tea like herb from south america) drinkers' mouth have been associated with a higher risk of getting some kind of mouth cancer. Apparently, people tend to rest the warm pipe in their mouths while drinking the hot beverage (I lost the links, sorry, but you can google it).

    I would like us to discuss this topic if you please. I think it's important.
    C No Ego likes this.
  2. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

    Get a vaporizer where you can dial in your temp. I found the Arizer Air a bit harsh unless I have an extended airpath. I have the Arizer Solo 2. You may need to vaporizer lower temps. With the Solo 2 it's upgraded with a temp display. You can dial in the exact temp that you want and how long of a session.

    Water filtration is a good solution for harsh vapor as well as a lower temperature. Also an extended air path that will cool the vapor a bit.
    With a VapCap I found that is pretty harsh for me plus I'm not a fan of using a lighter. Some vaporizers it's hard to regulate your heat.
    With the higher temps all the time (over 391) I've read more problems further down the line, far as lung problems with some people, not everyone. That would depend on the person and how often they used higher temps.

    You get better vapor flavor anyway with slightly lower tempretures.
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017
    C No Ego likes this.
  3. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

    Consider the temp difference between vaping and smoking. Smoking /combustion starts at about 1000 F. Vaping max starting temp would be about 440 F.
    Smoke and vapor cool very quickly. For example, a joint getting down to roach size can have a 1000 F initial temp and your lips are only 1/2 inch away, yet it is tolerable (hot but tolerable). A water temp of about 140 F will cause a burn in 5 seconds.

    Vapor is very very dry and not super hot. The dryness can be uncomfortable, cause coughing etc.
    Like you said, a water bubbler or hydratube can certainly cool the vapor further and more importantly IMO, it adds badly needed moisture to the vapor !!!
    A water piece can make the vaping experience MUCH more pleasant.
    invertedisdead and CarolKing like this.
  4. howie105

    howie105 Well-Known Member

    Getting hard numbers would give us a better idea of the actual risk level is. Without knowing the facts its just another maybe or could be things.
  5. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

    You don't need to go really high temp wise to extract the cannabinols and get medicated. Here's some info. It isn't the recent article I read but it's similar. I couldn't remember where the other article was from? It may have been the VaporAsylum?

    Ideal Temperature
    The ideal temperature for vaporizing cannabis is around 175 – 200°C (347 – 392°F), says Dr. Ian Mitchell, an emergency physician and clinical assistant professor at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver.

    However, he notes that a recent study that examined the cannabinoid extraction of different vaporizers used 210°C (410°F) as a set point.

    “In general, I would say 210°C is the best balance between efficient evaporation of terpenes and cannabinoids and smoothness of the vapor,” says Dr. Arno Hazekamp, who studies medical cannabis as the head of research at Bedrocan BV in the Netherlands.

    High vs. Low Temperatures
    If a user vaporizes cannabis below 180°C (356°F), they will mainly inhale terpenes because cannabinoids won’t evaporate at low temperatures, according to Dr. Hazekamp. But lower temperatures can be ideal for those who want a less intense and more awake high.

    Higher temperatures tend to yield more cannabinoids, as studies by researchers in the Netherlands have shown.

    In one experiment, the Volcano vaporizer only yielded 24% of cannabinoids when set at a temperature of 170°C (338°F). However, the yield jumped to 77% when the vaporizer was set to 230°C (446°F).

    According to Dr. Mitchell, the best extraction of THC occurs around this temperature, although lower temperatures are likely healthier for users.

    Users should take caution not to vaporize at or above 235°C (455°F) since the vapor will become harsh and could start to burn. “When that happens, you are creating the same toxic compounds as during smoking,” explains Dr. Hazekamp.

    Vaporizing CBD and THC
    Although some users may try to adjust the vaporizing temperature according to whether they want to feel the effects of CBD or THC more, it’s unlikely to make a significant difference.

    The boiling points of these two cannabinoids are only 10°C (18°F) apartand most vaporizers do not offer that level of accuracy.

    “If you are seeking to separate out THC and CBD, you are much better off controlling those in your cannabis sample rather than try to do it by differential volatility,” says Dr. Mitchell.

    Dr. Hazekamp agrees and maintains that users should vaporize around 210°C (410°F) to feel the effects of both cannabinoids. “It is easy to remember and why bother with two temperatures?”

    Other Things To Consider
    Although specific temperature ranges are commonly recommended to those just starting out, other factors could affect the ideal temperature to vaporize. For instance, Dr. Hazekamp points out that the moisture content of the cannabis is something to consider.

    “After all, when you heat cannabis in a vaporizer, the first thing to boil off is the remaining water in the plant,” he says.

    Another factor is the type of vaporizer used, according to Dr. Hazekamp. For example, convection-style vaporizers (such as the Volcano and other desktop models) can be more efficient because heat is transferred more directly. However, they can also evaporate cannabis even when a user is not inhaling.
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017
  6. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

    First Off= Love the avatar !

    when I looked into inhaled vape heated harms I found similar examples of Firefighters going into a building and breathing hot air as examples to equate with the act of vaporizing... the true fix and one I found worked perfect for my condition was to use a bubbler/ water piece to cool the vapor and also give me access to high heat therapeutic compounds that do not release with lower heat vaporizing... I truly found vaporizing when I put that thing on a bubbler! I've found an effective pain relief that comes with higher heat vaporizing..
    also, if you do the heat step method you vaporize low heat terpenes with the vape set low and then after every few draws on it - temperature step it up in ten degree increments to reach desired top heat
    kellya86 likes this.
  7. Abysmal Vapor

    Abysmal Vapor Shaman of The Pyramid of Orlin'Malah

    7th heaven - 666th pit (EU)
    The biggest damage from Vapor IMO is to your teeth enamel . It raises ph in the bong water so i guess it does that to your mouth and throat too, which is one of the reason things go sore.
    Another reason for your irritation might be sterilizers ,fertilizers,parasites,improper cure,environmental dust,hars,fabrics.. but if you are sure you bud is the purest it can be, then i think that you might start aiding and take ailments as a prevention before/after vaping. I found white sage vapor and tea ,also thyme and mint to be very relieving on my respiratory system. I wouldnt recommend cold drinks cause this is how you get things cracked on your enamel(thermal shock) ,but room temp water and tea are just fine. Mint candies are also an option if you are out, you should get some of those with herbs benefiting respiratory systems ,my favorite are with dill,cinnamon and salvia officialis.
    C No Ego likes this.
  8. kellya86

    kellya86 Herb gardener...

    With the tea drinking, (being British and all), i feel I should chime in....

    I was under the impression that tea 60 degress or above, (Celsius), can increase your risk of mouth cancer.....
    But 60 degrees tea is fucking hot for me....
    That'll burn my face off...

    So surely my vapour is nowhere near that hot...
    Even from a solo or vapcap without water...????
    Squiby likes this.
  9. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

    For us non-metric folks, 60 C = 140 F and liquids at 135 F for 5 seconds will scald your skin so that is F'in hot.
    Vapor, even without a bubbler, is well below that.
    Vapor heat does not concern me.
    Vapor dryness is my issue, as it is very very very dry. Adding some moisture helps a lot IMO
    kellya86 likes this.
  10. pickmita

    pickmita Well-Known Member

    Thank you guys for your input.

    I've been doing some test with temperature and found that definitely the green (200ºC) setting through a dry glass bong is way smoother than red (210ºC) through glass or just the default AA mouthpiece at green. I never do red without some glass pipe to cool the air. So cooler air is the key. Dryness is a lesser issue in my opinion.
    C No Ego likes this.
  11. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

    cannabis tends to dry the mouth as in " cottonmouth" so dry mouth is to be expected... I get cottonmouth when using an edible too... but, yeah that higher heat vaporizing will give you more full body effects as opposed to low heat vaporizing

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