1. What does SSTB mean? See our glossary of acronyms.

Should Assisted Suicide be Legal ???

Discussion in 'The Vapor Lounge' started by lwien, Aug 22, 2014.

  1. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,313
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    The catalyst for this thread was the discussion that ensued over in the RIP Robin Williams thread.

    Anyways...............your thoughts on this??

    Why is it illegal in most countries and in most states in the US? Is the illegality strictly based on religion?

    Why is it unethical to assist in this process, yet it's totally ethical to force someone to endure the pain and lack of dignity that happens in many end of life scenarios? Sounds totally backwards to me. Shouldn't the exact reverse hold true.

    Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2014
    Kief, Chill Dude, mestizo and 2 others like this.
  2. Magic9

    Magic9 Plant Enthusiast

    Messages:
    620
    Location:
    Middle of the Map
    Yes. Jack Kevorkian is an American hero.

    Edit* Don't have time to post a more thorough response, but great topic.

    Edit 2*

    Bioethics (and religion) aside, if we have a right to life as human beings, we have a right to die also. As far as terminally ill patients go, it is a cold hearted bastard to insist somebody suffer through the agony for the benefit of their "belief". If not a cold hearted bastard, then at least one that has never watched a family member/loved one die up close and personal.

    I take it one step further. I believe the right to die extends to all humans. Not just those with a terminal illness. Some people are ready to go. I will neither force them, or shame them into something that causes them prolonged agony.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2014
    Kief, aesthyrian and Been Vapin like this.
  3. Been Vapin

    Been Vapin Fringe Class

    Messages:
    472
    Location:
    USA
    It should be legal. Over 3,000 abortions take place everyday in the US. Its legal to stop a life from coming into this world and it should be legal to stop a life to make them leave this world.
     
    Kief, aesthyrian, Skeena and 2 others like this.
  4. Caligula

    Caligula Maximus

    Messages:
    6,886
    Location:
    SB420 Land!
    I had no idea there were states that allow it. All 4 of them.

    While I believe the right to both of these should exist, I don't feel this is an apples to apples comparison. In fact I think it's detrimental to the argument for PAS. Just IMO.
     
    Chill Dude and Magic9 like this.
  5. syrupy

    syrupy fumed

    Messages:
    1,487
    Your body is yours to do with as you please.

    As long as your keep it healthy, working, paying taxes or accounted for in state programs.

    I think it's mostly the stigma of death. The one thing we all know is coming, and the one thing we mostly avoid talking about. We've a long way to go as a society.
     
  6. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,313
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    Death is such an integral part of life that I find it just insane to avoid discussion especially being that I can't think of anything more that we all have in common.
     
  7. Caligula

    Caligula Maximus

    Messages:
    6,886
    Location:
    SB420 Land!
    Honestly I believe the largest factor for this being illegal is religion. Correct me if I'm wrong but most every major religion frowns upon suicide, while some even say you'll be damned for eternity.

    Doesn't help matters but I guess its good to isolate the root cause of an issue. Unless anyone has a better theory?
     
    aesthyrian and Magic9 like this.
  8. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,313
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    Yes, I think it's religion along with the Hippocratic Oath.
     
    aesthyrian, Chill Dude and Caligula like this.
  9. Caligula

    Caligula Maximus

    Messages:
    6,886
    Location:
    SB420 Land!
    I meant suicide in general, but good point about PAS.

    Of course, "do no harm" can have different interpretations. Question is, why is one interpretation favored here?
     
  10. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,313
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    To me, fundamentalism is abhorrent on any level, including medical fundamentalism.
     
    Crohnie, aesthyrian and Caligula like this.
  11. Caligula

    Caligula Maximus

    Messages:
    6,886
    Location:
    SB420 Land!
    Well the state kills people without a physician needing to be present. I see this as a way around it for "civilians" as well.

    Interesting that we would need to push legislation have the same right as a condemned prisoner.

    Mind blown.
     
    aesthyrian likes this.
  12. mestizo

    mestizo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    434
    @ Iwien, death may be an integral part of everyday life, but the reason we avoid talking about it is because it goes against our human nature. All throughout history you can see people trying or do things to immortalize themselves because our nature is always to keep on living, death destroys all of that, out dreams, aspirations, etc, the dead person has lost everything he has, that is why at funerals people try to be as nice to the deceased, no matter how bad he was in life, because he has lost it all.
    @ Caligula, I think the abortion argument @ Been Vapin made is a valid one because a comment below your by @ syrupy claims that it is your body and you can do as you please, so therefore because medically and scientifically we know that when a woman is carrying a baby inside her womb is not part of her, she doesn't share the same DNA, and if she is carrying a boy, she didn't have a penis for 9 months or so.
    Also, I think religion plays a big part of people's position on the assisted suicide subject, but I know that the Judeo-Christian scriptures don't damn a person for committing suicide, an example of that is Samson, he asked God for permission to kill himself, and it was granted to him.
     
    RUDE BOY likes this.
  13. Caligula

    Caligula Maximus

    Messages:
    6,886
    Location:
    SB420 Land!
    This isn't the thread for this debate. I'm just going to say, exactly when a bunch of cells becomes a "baby" is in question. If you're going to cite statistics and include all abortions (including early ones), then you need to address that fact. Again, it's a poor argument but that's the last I'll say about it.

    Carry on.
     
    aesthyrian likes this.
  14. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,313
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    Let's talk about this a bit.

    Does it matter if the one who dies has lost everything if the one who dies does not feel any loss? The only ones to feel any loss is the living, eh?

    You say that death goes against our human nature. I say that it goes against everything that lives for the smallest insect will struggle for survival.

    But just because survival is in the DNA of all living things, so is death, eh?

    And I also believe that it is the fear of death that gave birth to ALL religions since the beginning of time. It is our way of dealing with the unknown, for we MUST have answers. It is the reason why religion exists. But I also believe that as we evolve, we will come to accept that we don't NEED to have ALL the answers while still maintaining the search and that eventually, religion will no longer serve a purpose.

    And yeah, lets not let this thread morph into a debate on abortions, eh? That should be a thread on it's own.
     
  15. syrupy

    syrupy fumed

    Messages:
    1,487
    One thing about assisted suicide that came up is we assume the person seeking to end their misery is making the decision, and making it in their right mind. I guess the scenario I see is an elderly person "helped" to decide by a family that had an interest in not having to play caregiver, who is 'helped' in the decision.

    What should the rules be? We can't have people offing their in-laws and calling it assisted...
     
    RUDE BOY likes this.
  16. mestizo

    mestizo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    434
    It wasn't my intention to derail the thread, I was making a point on an observation I made. I know abortion is a delicate subject matter and I'll leave it at that, most of us, if not all have our minds set on one camp or another.
    I can cite all statistics if @Caligula wants to take this private. I'm at work right now but I can be at my home computer tomorrow.
    Now back to assisted suicide.
    @Iwien, I see you points and agree with most of them, but I have to disagree that the fear of death gave birth to ALL religions, some I'll agree, but not all.
    Some religions started as a way to find answers to some of the most difficult questions humans have asked themselves.
    Why are we here?
    How did we get here?
    What is the purpose of life? And yes,
    Is there something after we die?
    Right now I'm of the position that you have a right to terminate your life, it should be your prerogative, but I admit I ignore most if not all governments oppose to it.
    Do they have valid arguments? I don't know.
    Most believers in he Judeo-Christian scriptures cite the commandment "thou shall not kill" and that includes your own life.
    But I also feel that sometimes we don't pull the plug on love ones because of our own selfishness, disregarding all the pain and suffering our live one is going through.
    But I also want to ask my fellow FCers, what are the many reasons people commit suicide?
     
  17. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

    Messages:
    5,667
    Location:
    Southeast of Disorder
    I think I speak for the rest of the mods when I say....
    [​IMG]

    :peace:
     
  18. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,313
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    LOL. Yeah, I had a bit of a twinge when I posted that up.
     
    Been Vapin and Stu like this.
  19. syrupy

    syrupy fumed

    Messages:
    1,487
    Who do I bill for my monitor, Stu or the mods collectively? I didn't expect to spray my drink! It's a YooHoo, 16oz.
     
  20. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

    Messages:
    5,667
    Location:
    Southeast of Disorder
    All reimbursement requests should go directly to @pakalolo . :nod:

    :peace:
     
  21. Chill Dude

    Chill Dude Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    594
    Location:
    San Diego, Ca
    If we're talking about suicide outside the realm of the terminally ill; I don't think think there is any point in legalising general suicide. I hardly think people that are contemplating suicide give much thought on the legality of it LOL... I don't think we want a society that encourages suicide. For me personally, I think suicide should be legal only for the terminally ill and those suffering severe pain with major disability where their quality of life has diminished to the point that death would be a better option. However, I understand the argument that suicide should be a basic human right, but I don't think that would be a positive message for society as a whole.
     
    RUDE BOY, Been Vapin and CarolKing like this.
  22. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,313
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    And should we only condone this for physical disabilities and physical pain. What about mental pain and mental illness? Are those who experience those kinds of pains any less valid than those that experience physical pain?

    The reason that I'm asking this is that it goes to the heart of how we view physical illness versus mental illness.
     
    aesthyrian likes this.
  23. mestizo

    mestizo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    434
    When I said he who dies had lost everything, I meant all of his dreams and aspirations in this life.
    And as far as death being part of all living creatures, I agree, but why do we embrace life, and run away from death as a plague? (Except for those to seek after it, like a suicidal person).
    That's why I also believe death is not normal, most people see it that way, that's why they feel uncomfortable talking about it.
    Now, I know this thread is about assisted suicide and I'll keep my comments on it, I just wanted to reply to those questions you made to me.
    If any of the mods feel some of my comments are out of line, please remove them.
    Thanks.
     
  24. farscaper

    farscaper uninvited guest

    Messages:
    1,686
    maybe its me... frankly I tried when I was younger... failed... and not pleasently... more like an experience... but I digress... how can it be illegal? I mean if you kill yourself how do they charge you? and doesnt the added arrest charged in the event of a failed and caught in the act suicide how do those charges really help?

    I think its really just the states way of intervention... its more politically correct to sedate and incarcerate the mentally and physically ill... they dont want suicide booths on the corners cause.... nobody wants to empty that litterbox...

    people die every day... from totally normal things...
    we all have expiration tags...

    I just wanna make sure I go out like a fucking viking!

    :goon:

    I have large ambitions ...


    edit: its not a question of why is it illegal to assist suicide... but rather whos choice was it if there was assistance...

    wouldnt euthanasia specialists be just a bit on the odd side... formal doctor name for your executioner...

    best to just keep it DIY

    edit #2 although it would give serial murders honest work I suppose..

    I wonder if they would still moonlight ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2014
    RUDE BOY likes this.
  25. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,313
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    It's not? Please explain.
     
    aesthyrian likes this.

Support FC, visit our trusted friends and sponsors