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Pure convection - To grind or not to grind ?

Discussion in 'Vaporization Discussion' started by Roger D, Jun 4, 2013.

  1. francis

    francis Vape enthusiasms

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    317


    It kinda work like an espresso machine .
    more material compacted more extraction.

    the HA is really impressive in term of extraction and efficiency.
     
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  2. socialengineer

    socialengineer Member

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    interesting, however i believe the manufacturer recommends to use a pea sized amount of herb so i have some doubts on that
     
  3. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    From their owners manual: "Start experimenting with small quantities i.e a "pea" sized sample."

    That is quite a bit different than recommending that users just use a pea sized amount of herb.
     
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  4. Pesci

    Pesci New Member

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    Depends on the vape, Solo: hand grind. LSV: proper grind.
     
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  5. Jeremy Driscoll

    Jeremy Driscoll Well-Known Member

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    The thread should titled. With a new title. Like the Herbal aire appreciation thread. Sorry medicated right now.
     
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  6. mnd99

    mnd99 Active Member

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    I don't know the Science behind things...I don't even properly know what conduction and convection is...for pure unadulterated subjective report - I have Cloud+, HA 2.2, and Flashvape that are functioning right now...and for the same strains, I PREFER to use unground bud in HA 2.2. The high somehow feels different...feels complete or more fuller or I don't know how to say it..feels like something is missing when I grind it...nothing I can put in words...but I have noticed this many many times...
     
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  7. Jeremy Driscoll

    Jeremy Driscoll Well-Known Member

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    I'm a HA Fanboy. So this thread is like a holiday for me.
     
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  8. nicelytoasted

    nicelytoasted Vaked Chemist

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    Location:
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    This is most likely due to the fact that you do not suffer any sample degradation or active losses by not grinding your herb. Grinding rips apart the trichomes before they can be thermally desorbed. In addition, drying the bud to make it easier to grind also loses some volatile actives and terpenes. This could be an overall significant loss, imo.

    It's unfortunate that most all vapourizers do not have hardly any penetrating power, thus necessitating the need to grind our herb, and expose more surface area.

    I've seen it said in here many times that drying the bud improves the vapourizing experience. I disagree, though it does help to grind it. The reason you get more visible "clouds" when you grind, is not from more actives, but from increasing the amount of particulates in the vapour stream, providing more surface area for condensation.

    As far as an appreciation thread for the HA, I'm all for it, as it is (and always has been), one of the most under rated and under appreciated vapourizers in FC. Seeing it dismissed as a bag vape only, or a "weak" hitting vape is a grave injustice.
     
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  9. Jeremy Driscoll

    Jeremy Driscoll Well-Known Member

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    392
    And to think some grinders are over 50.00
     
  10. pigfoot

    pigfoot Dabs are vaping too!

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    New to the vaping thing, but really diggin' whole nugs in the 'nano. Man that flavor just lasts and lasts. I've got a good grinder, but it does seem like some of the goodness gets lost on the many surfaces it's touched by. Plus it's an extra step to take. I have been experimenting with crunching it up towards the end.
     
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  11. Caligula

    Caligula *results not typical.

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    6,620
    Location:
    So Cal
    The Nano is one of those vapes that works very well with whole nugs. As I'm sure you know, whole nug for flavorful first hits, then break up and stir for massive clouds after.
     
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  12. Unconnected

    Unconnected Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm i have always wanted to do this but never tried it, i might have to give it a go in my ssv tonight, will report back later on. I always fine grind for all my vapes in a coffee grinder with no complaints so it will be interesting to see the difference.
     
  13. Zookeeper

    Zookeeper Well-Known Member

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    When weed goes full legal, they will have to study the development of resin stalks to perfect extraction techniques/concentrate yields. We'll have a better answer to this question at that point lol.

    My theory is, that even though the trichomes are on the outside,once vaporized they somewhat soak in to the plant material before being pulled out. With whole buds, the oils seem to run to the densest part of the bud, and the hot spot is around the perimeter of the bud and the center of the screen may be dirtier, while with a packed bowl of ground herb, the hotspot is usually down the center (the resin moves to the sides and cakes on the walls).

    I think this area should be the next focus of all vape companies. Several have the electronics down, but there's still yet to be a near perfect bowl design IMO.
     
  14. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

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    Location:
    where the Cube rules!
    yeah, i agree with this ... i think the material in the bowl needs to be suspended for maximum air envelopment. every design i come up with ends up being impossible to keep clean. so, good enough will have to do.

    however, i don't think the trichome goo soaks into the herb, just the outer waxy(?) shell. my abv is always uniformly toasted (bud toaster, after all) but i do stir once and that rejuvenates the extraction. so something is going on.
     
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  15. Zookeeper

    Zookeeper Well-Known Member

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    Dickie, your Budtoaster is one of the first things I ever saw on FC and one of the reasons I flt like sign up. Props!

    Going off topic but I recently watched a panel discussion on growing and DJ Short says he believes Sativa strains originally had secretious resin pistils rather than trichome glands, and that trichomes evolved from the breeding practices of ancient keef/hash producers! Interesting to think about how Cannabis has changes over the millenia.

    It wont be long before the perfect herb chamber is designed. Its just finding a balance of leaving enough airflow around the biomass, without the majority of the air taking those outer paths. The best idea I can see so far would be something similar to a Cloud ELB with 8-10 verticle grooves cut inside the glass down 95% of the length of the ELB. The screen being right up against the wall causes that clogged artery affect after resin collects (which requires the glass/wire mesh to be a much hotter temp than the air in order to conductively vaporize said resins from the caked mesh) If anyone knows how to notch the insides of a ground glass joint, I'll buy the supplies! I love experimenting.
     
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  16. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

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    @Zookeeper, that type of bowl you described isn't perfect for me since I like very little clouds for the times when I want to get as nice as I can get. It will cause too much condensation(clouds) for me which give an energetic effect but have a "ceiling" whereas a more natural, thin like vapor can go on & on with the right technique. For me I need a nice wide bowl so I can get a quick and even extraction with very little clouds as long as I use the temps correctly.

    For the budtoaster the shape of the bowl is perfect because of the way the heating is designed to be. For most other vaporizers, I would hate it when trying to take my mind to its limit.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2014
  17. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

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    1,985
    Location:
    where the Cube rules!
    @Zookeeper - thanks.

    Maybe it would be easier to put several vertical creases in the ELB to pull most of the side away from the glass wall. could maybe simulate with a couple of flat toothpicks.

    i wonder if one of my 12mm outside diameter (35mm long) vials could substitute for the ELB -- and get to a pure glass air path.
     
  18. Tai Sun

    Tai Sun Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Australia
    Hits are almost twice as big with an extra fine grind.

    I use a cheap titanium crusher to grind it works awesome and gets it really fine not just broken up.

    But if i go through with scissors after the grind and get it almost powdery the hits are definately increased.
     
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  19. MG23

    MG23 Relaxin'

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    465
    They recommend starting with a pea size chunk and working your way up from there, so you can judge the amount necessary for the effect you want without it being ground up.
     
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  20. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

    Messages:
    1,985
    Location:
    where the Cube rules!
    well, i wonder if internal cellular fluids, in addition to the thc from the trichomes, is included in that vapor.

    which vaporizer do you use? (MFLB? or other conduction vape?) -- extra fine grind results in a packed vial -- which definitely doesn't create vapor as well as a very loose and airy load in my convection vape.
     
  21. Tai Sun

    Tai Sun Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Ive had that experience with my underdog mainly aswell as my previous exq. My lotus aswell but havnt experimented enough with it.
     
  22. DDave

    DDave Vape Wizard

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    1,135
    Agreed! In both Solo and Extreme, best extraction comes from grinding finely... (IMHO)
     
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  23. ElevatedMechanics

    ElevatedMechanics New Member Manufacturer

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    16
    Location:
    Denver, Colorado
    Grinding in my opinion is required! I personally feel like the ground material vaporizes much more evenly and efficiently, not to mention it assists in the 'pull' required to vape in whip vaporizers, and in my Sublimator I can only imagine it helps having all of that surface area!
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2014
    Roger D and DDave like this.
  24. max

    max This space available Staff Member

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    8,990
    How big of a piece you use is up to you, but as a long time HA owner, I can assure you that pieces of herb work great for full extraction, and avoiding ground herb keeps small pieces out of the main mouthpiece, and therefore the bag, or your lungs. If you use ground bud, you should add another screen to the top of the crucible, since the main mouthpiece screen has large holes.
     
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  25. RUDE BOY

    RUDE BOY Space is the Place

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    2,569
    For the last month or so I only grind for my MFLB type vapes the volta and wispr, all others just get nugs or little pellets like the Vapo 2 and HA. Even the no2 and tvape seem to taste better and work just fine without grinding the DV and PN are awesome this way, sessions may take a little longer for full extraction but well worth it me thinks. If you want awesome taste not grinding seems the way to go in my opinion.

    EDIT; also my vaporizers stay a lot cleaner if I use whole unground bud.
     
    Roger D likes this.

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