Perception of cannabis users in legal vs illegal areas

[DocNicksche]

Hi there!

I'm not sure if there already is a thread like this, or if I posted it in the right place...

Lately I'm wondering, if cannabis consumers are - lets say "treated" - the same by scociety (generally non-consumers) anywhere in the world? Or, if there is a significant difference between legal or illegal areas?

Here's my story regarding this:
I'm a 40 years old guy from Europe. I live and have lived in an illegal area my whole life. I had my first experience with cannabis when I was 12 or 13, so pretty early. I mean, I'm not sure if that even was weed we had back then! It was terrible and I don't think I felt anything... I smoked occasionally then and stopped until my later teens, when I started smoking on a daily basis. And I haven't stopped ever since. It became part of my Life and although I lived in illegal area, I never really cared about hiding that I love weed
This would work in private life, but not in professionell Work Life. I studied bioengineering and work for international companies in the medical sector. And there, I strictly have to hide "my hobbies" through the years and different companies, there were very rare cases, I would be "close enough" with a work friend, to share them. Don't get me wrong, I'm a wake and bake guy and I smoke/vape before work all the time. They just never saw me sober!

And, also in private life, you have those people, who just don't understand anything about cannabis and just see it as a drug... sometimes, generally with a lot of explaining and discussion, you can convince someone that it isn't a bad thing, only the law makes it one. But these cases are rare! And I don't want to explain myself to everyone.

So, you are kind of forced to separate work and private life pretty strictly and, also in private life, you somehow can only be your "real self" with a couple of people who are either likeminded, or generally just accept the fact you consume. For others, you may start to seem to separate yourself and may be seen as a weirdo especially, when reaching a certain age, where those other people believe they became adults and you're still stuck

 

[DocNicksche]

... somewhere

Like I said, I used to give a s**t about that! You like me, or can bite me and leave me alone! I have enough close friends to not feel like I am just an antisocial Guy.
This has changed a bit, since we had our two little Kids...
I mean, I want my kids to grow up "normal" (as normal as possible with a dad like me ) and have Lots of friends. Unfortunately it is very common that other parents, from Kindergarten or similar, are of the not-understanding kind. So, you are again forced to hide a part of yourself for the sake of your kids friendships. Since it is very possible, that if the parents find out you are a "drug-head" they try and keep their kids from getting too close with mine.
I think this is a very sad situation and I just don't get people who think like that

And now, I'm wondering if somebody here can relate to this, or if it's just me, being a weirdo after all?

Edit: just to be clear...drug-head just refers to weed and nothing else

 

[PhilosoStoner]

I've always lived in an illegal area. It's sort of unspoken that a lot of people consume cannabis, but is seen as something for deadbeats and waste men, of which I am neither. I'm lucky to have friends who understand that's not what stoners are like (at least not all of them), but am very private generally about my consumption in public and professional life.

 

[darkstar72]

I completely relate. It sucks to have to keep a secret and not be able to be your authentic self free from worry of discrimination. Keeping our habit a secret or partially secret is in my opinion unhealthy psychologically. I guess perceptions change slowly. In the US I think the west coast is more cannabis friendly, then maybe the north east. I'm in a legal state in the north east and numerous states in the north east and mid Atlantic are just now making recreational sales legal so change is definitely rolling quickly in the right direction. I totally relate except I can't get away with being high and productive all the time. That's kind of impressive.

 

[Radwin Bodnic]

I'm living in an illegal country in Europe. One of the most repressive one.

I didn't really care about being discreet during my teenage years and early adulthood but it hasn't always been easy to deal with.

I now am more careful of social context where I can be honest about my hobbies or not. I have the chance to live in a cultural enclave where a lot of people don't care about cannabis use. But I still have to be careful to whom I can be open about it.
That said I am sure that even on legal countries, people can be detrimental to you if they learn about your consumption.

Still have to be careful with my kid or friends kids though. The latest they are exposed to it the better...

 

[Grass Yes]

I live in a US state that was one of the first to legalize full recreational sales, following a very successful medical program. My friends and family (including my kid) know that I enjoy cannabis. Edibles are pretty commonly used here, although they aren't my thing.

However there is still a ton of cannabis stigma here. People still see it as lazy or weird. Or they see "stoners" who have a low work ethic or whatever. Cannabis stigma is used to demagogue voters into supporting absurd limits on "smell" and public consumption sites. Cannabis stigma is still used to limit workers rights.

It is changing, but slowly. I try to live my life in the open as I have some privilege that protects me. I hope this can help to change people 's minds. I also am in contact with my state representatives about cannabis (and other prohibition) issues.

 

[Madtater]

What i dont get is how there is still the “lazy stoned kid that has the munchies” stereotype.

There are so many different strains out there that do a myriad of different things. From energy to nausea suppression even pain relief and help with adhd.

I was asked last month by a friend how i have so much energy while we were building a 12x20 gazebo. The other 3 people that were helping were taking frequent breaks while i was up and down the ladder and never stopped. Told him it was the sour diesel. He didnt believe it. Told him that cannabis is not just about sitting on the couch and crushing a bag of potato chips anymore and he should believe what he wanted and i kept going.

Some people say the stigma is changing, and while i like to believe it, i just do not see it. There is and still be people that believe the devils lettuce is nothing more than something that makes people lazy, numb, and hungry…….and that pisses me off.

 

[DocNicksche]

Thanks for the answers so far! Pretty interesting for me to read... I don't have many people here to openly discuss this

However there is still a ton of cannabis stigma here. People still see it as lazy or weird. Or they see "stoners" who have a low work ethic or whatever. Cannabis stigma is used to demagogue voters into supporting absurd limits on "smell" and public consumption sites. Cannabis stigma is still used to limit workers rights.

That's really f**ked Up! How is this stigma used to limit workers rights? I mean, in many jobs you obviously shouldn't be high all the time (for example a school bus Driver or similar jobs). Do you have to take drug tests or something? Can you loose your job if you didn't pass one? I mean, you could have consumed days ago and still test positive...

Some people say the stigma is changing, and while i like to believe it, i just do not see it. There is and still be people that believe the devils lettuce is nothing more than something that makes people lazy, numb, and hungry…….and that pisses me off.

... that's sad to hear. I was somehow expecting - or maybe hoping - this would change with legalization.

I'm, what most people would call a heavy stoner. It's just part of who I am and I don't want to stop anytime soon. I get on with life, in fact, I achieved way more goals as a stoner, than many other people who aren't. Yes, I too have Times/phases where I'm not very productive and can just let the world around me and my fam be whatever it wants to be. Maybe, way more often than I want to admit to myself, but ... why the hell not?! I personally think, that we already living in a world where we have to function and accomplish all and everything at once all the time. I see it as healthy to slow down and enjoy the simple things in life and I have honestly never found anything more helpful with that, than this most useful plant.

 

[Grass Yes]

That's really f**ked Up! How is this stigma used to limit workers rights? I mean, in many jobs you obviously shouldn't be high all the time (for example a school bus Driver or similar jobs). Do you have to take drug tests or something? Can you loose your job if you didn't pass one? I mean, you could have consumed days ago and still test positive...

Yep, that's a big part of it, although slowly laws are changing. Having a union can help but they also sometimes buy into the stigma.

Also workers compensation and insurance claims can be denied if you are a cannabis consumer.

The problem is largely a symptom of the particular flavor of capitalism we have in the US. It's just another vector to crush working people.

And don't get me started on the whole idea of "productivity".

 

[Shit Snacks]

Yeah it is more socially acceptable in certain industries and potentially professionally acceptable too, however it really depends on the exact setting and the people you're interacting with, personal experience and individual perspective play a huge part, since there are so many mixed messages from mainstream society and media now...

However even on the west coast in the entertainment industry, in the corporate environment, everyone is open about alcohol and coffee, there is a bit more open conversation about using CBD of course and there can be a bit more open talk about THC in leisure personal use, but again you want to be careful who you are sharing this with, depends on the people more than anything else, and it's usually a don't ask don't tell, you wouldn't want anyone to potentially think you would be high when you are in normal activity even if that is what gets you to be normal, some people just have a way of thinking about you differently after that although some people are very accepting...

Judgmental inclinations are rooted in a lot of different places for different people? A lot of it is based on their own experience, whether it's a professional environment or a social environment, some people stigmatize it because they don't like it personally whether they tried it or not, maybe they just don't understand any positives then?

I've worked several different companies that technically have a drug test policy I believe although it has never been enforced in my sector (although it was back when I was interning at a huge engineering company)

 

[Radwin Bodnic]

Judgmental inclinations are rooted in a lot of different places for different people? A lot of it is based on their own experience, whether it's a professional environment or a social environment, some people stigmatize it because they don't like it personally whether they tried it or not, maybe they just don't understand any positives then?

I don't know about legal countries but here the stigmatization is institutionalized. Most people stigmatize the use of marijuana (and the plant by itself) because that's the only message they hear on near every media. And we all know most people struggle to form an opinion uninfluenced by media... (in France, statistics show that the candidate to the presidential that is elected is always the one with the biggest media coverage. Free thinking is almost nonexistent in a media and consumption driven society...)

 

[Bologna]

Talk about "Stigma"... you can't use and work for the federal government, or institutions with federal oversight etc in the US, medical use or otherwise... it doesn't matter if the state you live in "legalized" it. You're not supposed to own a firearm either.

Federal Contractors and Grantees

Many federal contractors and all federal grantees are required by law to establish and maintain a drug-free workplace policy.

www.samhsa.gov

 

[Shit Snacks]

Talk about "Stigma"... you can't use and work for the federal government, or institutions with federal oversight etc in the US, medical use or otherwise... it doesn't matter if the state you live in "legalized" it. You're not supposed to own a firearm either.

Federal Contractors and Grantees

Many federal contractors and all federal grantees are required by law to establish and maintain a drug-free workplace policy.

www.samhsa.gov

Yeah and they actually do do random testing

 

[Canna Chameleon]

I was a closet smoker in an illegal state for 30 years. I smoked after work and on weekends. Hid it from most people, unless you could find signs they were also a consumer of cannabis. Hints dropped at the right moments to test the waters, and an occasional dancing bear (grateful dead reference).

Coincidentally medical MJ and Covid came at about the same time, forcing me to tell my family. My kids took it in stride and told me they were glad I had found something that helped me. My wife, sister, and mom were less than supportive. They shut up when I got the MMJ card, but still never approved.

As for the stigma, it exists in most corporation, schools, community government. They still pass rules they don’t pass for alcohol use, to limit acceptance. Still very dont ask don’t tell.

But, as it become now recreationally legal, and as small businesses have raked in millions in revenue…it’s changing in certain lanes. There are lots of people looking to cash in and the money is flowing. As the more public and reputable names begin to engage, I see more and more flexible locations and vendors and artists and microgrowers collaborating.

No stigma exists in that community..and it’s growing.

 

[DocNicksche]

Also workers compensation and insurance claims can be denied if you are a cannabis consumer.

...this is possible?! They can pay you less money for the same job, if you consume? That's just nuts!

however it really depends on the exact setting and the people you're interacting with, personal experience and individual perspective play a huge part, since there are so many mixed messages from mainstream society and media now...

Totally agree! As I said, there were very rare cases I would share my perspective with co-workers and sometimes even smoke together...
It's almost always possible to live in a bubble with only likeminded people, but I still think it's sad this has to be that way...
I live in a country, where it's absolutely common place to drink alcohol. I get it. I too enjoy a nice beer in the evening or when socializing with Friends...but I would even more enjoy it if it was okay for everyone if I would just pull out a vape next to them

I don't know about legal countries but here the stigmatization is institutionalized

Very true, sadly! It's bad and you're bad if you consume it! ... that's the general information you get from the mainstream media here.
Also, medical use is almost not existant. Most doctors, even if they know it would help, won't prescribe it. Usually out of fear to loose their reputation. ...and, even if you are so lucky (or in this case, unlucky, of course) to qualify for a prescription you would only get pharmaceutical grade THC (or CBD) isolates, or combinations of them. No flower at all!

 

[Grass Yes]

...this is possible?! They can pay you less money for the same job, if you consume? That's just nuts!

Sorry for the confusion. Workers' Compensation is the disability insurance provided by the US government:

Workers' Compensation

The U.S. Department of Labor's Office of Workers' Compensation Programs (OWCP) administers four major disability compensation programs which provides to federal workers (or their dependents) and other specific groups who are injured at work or acquire an occupational disease – providing the...

www.dol.gov

Confusingly named but I could have been more clear.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Yeah I must say I am grateful though for how accepted and prevalent it is in my industry and location in California... Very fortunate to have made friends this way, even former co-workers! So definitely locational progress just still a lot of stigma as well unfortunately

 

[Madtater]

Yeah I must say I am grateful though for how accepted and prevalent it is in my industry and location in California... Very fortunate to have made friends this way, even former co-workers! So definitely locational progress just still a lot of stigma as well unfortunately

It is unfortunate that isnt the case everywhere.

I am so sick and tired of being told what is acceptable and what is not. Why cant people just mind their own business, live their lives and let others do the same without judgement? Where is the freedom? Where is the live and let live attitude

People fucking suck.

 

[DocNicksche]

Sorry for the confusion. Workers' Compensation is the disability insurance provided by the US government:

Workers' Compensation

The U.S. Department of Labor's Office of Workers' Compensation Programs (OWCP) administers four major disability compensation programs which provides to federal workers (or their dependents) and other specific groups who are injured at work or acquire an occupational disease – providing the...

www.dol.gov

Confusingly named but I could have been more clear.

Thx for the clarification! ... But this is still very sad! Almost more than here... I mean, it's legal for you. It's your right to consume. Of course, like already mentioned, I don't think everyone should be high all the time, but how can they dare to discriminate you if it's legal?

 

[Grass Yes]

I am so sick and tired of being told what is acceptable and what is not. Why cant people just mind their own business, live their lives and let others do the same without judgement? Where is the freedom? Where is the live and let live attitude

Yep. I actually think most people want this but people, especially in the US, are easily demagogued. I remember well growing up during the war on drugs and the "tough on crime" 1990s (super predator, anyone?).

I see this happening across the country where a minority in power are trying to roll back the rights of people from various out groups. There is a big push to create a moral panic around crime and LGBT people. Hopefully those of us impacted by the previous moral panics will see this as the bullshit that it is.

 

[EarthworldTim]

Yep, that's a big part of it, although slowly laws are changing. Having a union can help but they also sometimes buy into the stigma.

Also workers compensation and insurance claims can be denied if you are a cannabis consumer.

The problem is largely a symptom of the particular flavor of capitalism we have in the US. It's just another vector to crush working people.

And don't get me started on the whole idea of "productivity".

Almost a decade ago when I started with my company(pre California rec legalization) they would shut down bathrooms on a floor of a building for randomized testing of employees in certain classifications every month. Seemed extreme and kind of draconian to me then but since rec legalization that doesn't happen as far as I know. The company now has a policy of don't possess cannabis on company premises so big improvement since then.

Yep. I actually think most people want this but people, especially in the US, are easily demagogued. I remember well growing up during the war on drugs and the "tough on crime" 1990s (super predator, anyone?).

I see this happening across the country where a minority in power are trying to roll back the rights of people from various out groups. There is a big push to create a moral panic around crime and LGBT people. Hopefully those of us impacted by the previous moral panics will see this as the bullshit that it is.

Kind of shocking that anyone could buy into straight garbage thinking but people love a good ol panic party. I pretty regularly strike up conversations with older folks in my little bubble town and they definitely have some weird ideas about perceived threats. At least with the people I talk to the real fear is any kind of change.

 

[PhilosoStoner]

Thanks for the answers so far! Pretty interesting for me to read... I don't have many people here to openly discuss this


That's really f**ked Up! How is this stigma used to limit workers rights? I mean, in many jobs you obviously shouldn't be high all the time (for example a school bus Driver or similar jobs). Do you have to take drug tests or something? Can you loose your job if you didn't pass one? I mean, you could have consumed days ago and still test positive...


... that's sad to hear. I was somehow expecting - or maybe hoping - this would change with legalization.

I'm, what most people would call a heavy stoner. It's just part of who I am and I don't want to stop anytime soon. I get on with life, in fact, I achieved way more goals as a stoner, than many other people who aren't. Yes, I too have Times/phases where I'm not very productive and can just let the world around me and my fam be whatever it wants to be. Maybe, way more often than I want to admit to myself, but ... why the hell not?! I personally think, that we already living in a world where we have to function and accomplish all and everything at once all the time. I see it as healthy to slow down and enjoy the simple things in life and I have honestly never found anything more helpful with that, than this most useful plant.

Not the person you asked, but I've also had issues with drug tests. There have been jobs I was qualified for, but couldn't accept because there would be regular drug tests, which would be grounds to be fired, as well as possibly show up on your background check. I hate how
in those places you're not even allowed total privacy, as if you're not under the influence at work they should have no right to test you

 

[DocNicksche]

Not the person you asked, but I've also had issues with drug tests. There have been jobs I was qualified for, but couldn't accept because there would be regular drug tests, which would be grounds to be fired, as well as possibly show up on your background check. I hate how
in those places you're not even allowed total privacy, as if you're not under the influence at work they should have no right to test you

Also very sorry to read that! And I totally agree, they should have no right to test!
Seems I'm lucky in this context...never had to take a drug test my entire life.

 

[Bologna]

Thx for the clarification! ... But this is still very sad! Almost more than here... I mean, it's legal for you. It's your right to consume. Of course, like already mentioned, I don't think everyone should be high all the time, but how can they dare to discriminate you if it's legal?

Yes, but it's not federally legal in the US, so technically it's not discrimination, and it's not a human or constitutional right... this is why cannabis can't be sent thru the US Postal Service as it's a federally operated service.... you can't possess cannabis and legally cross state borders... the actual line, itself, is a federal boundary.

States maintain their own oversight for many issues, but they don't oversee the feds.

 

[DocNicksche]

This sounds very complicated and confusing for me... I don't have a lot of insight to US laws
But it does definitely not sound like "the holy land of cannabis" to me...at least not the same I thought before reading some of the posts here