new to dabbing: flavor declines after 1-2 hits - is that normal?

[darbarikanada]

I recently got a banger, have been learning how to use it, also have a wax pen. with both, it seems like the flavor (of wax, live resin) is good for 2 hits, then gets nasty. I'm doing small loads - .04g or so. with the wax pen the sweet spot is the 2nd (of 4) temp. setting. with the banger I'm having to reheat a little bit between hits (30 sec. between hits maybe). I typically get 4-5 hits total from these loads with both; the hits after #2 generate big clouds, but taste crappy.

when I vape (flower, wax, hash) in my mighty, the decline in flavor is much more gradual. is there something wrong with my technique or is this just normal? I seem to recall reading that the terpenes burn off fast.

thanks for any thoughts.

 

[invertedisdead]

Out of 5 draws you're doing 4 reheats?
Probably overcooking on the reheat, I usually get 4-5 hits per heatup.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Oh best way, is to heat the banger and take a smaller dab, kill it in one hit! Otherwise yeah it's going to taste like trash and not worth it unless you like need to, especially using a pen the taste goes to shit with those stupid metal coils and even the ceramic cups in my experience... Of course it depends on some variables and the situations, but yeah I think one hitters is the best way to go for dabs...

 

[darbarikanada]

Out of 5 draws you're doing 4 reheats?

yes. I sometimes get a wispy 2nd hit from the first reheat.

take a smaller dab, kill it in one hit!

makes sense - thanks! so those people getting multiple clouds from a single load on youtube are getting nasty-tasting hits after the first 1-2 hits?

 

[invertedisdead]

You want to heat the nail up more to store enough thermal energy so that when you do dab it will allow more draws before cooling down below vaporization temperatures.

Or you could try cold starts. When I do a torched dab I usually do a cold start, otherwise I use the e-nail.

Live resin should never really get nasty at any point of the draw IMO.

 

[darbarikanada]

You want to heat the nail up more to store enough thermal energy so that when you do dab it will allow more draws before cooling down below vaporization temperatures.

Or you could try cold starts. When I do a torched dab I usually do a cold start, otherwise I use the e-nail.

thanks. I'm using a round-bottom banger (+ carb cap + pearl). I got it because I read about the good flavor of cold starts. I'm putting in the (.04g) load, then heating ~ 5-6 sec. with a triple torch. the youtube 'tutorial' I saw used a creme brulee torch for more like 10 sec, but it said to stop heating when you see vapor. sounds like you're saying I need to heat it longer, yes?

 

[Ramahs]

I recently got a banger, have been learning how to use it, also have a wax pen. with both, it seems like the flavor (of wax, live resin) is good for 2 hits, then gets nasty. I'm doing small loads - .04g or so. with the wax pen the sweet spot is the 2nd (of 4) temp. setting. with the banger I'm having to reheat a little bit between hits (30 sec. between hits maybe). I typically get 4-5 hits total from these loads with both; the hits after #2 generate big clouds, but taste crappy.

when I vape (flower, wax, hash) in my mighty, the decline in flavor is much more gradual. is there something wrong with my technique or is this just normal? I seem to recall reading that the terpenes burn off fast.

thanks for any thoughts.

Any time I've used a banger, I've intended to take an amount that I can kill in one hit.
If I can't, then I misjudged the size of my dab.

You don't want that shit sitting there just cooking.

 

[darbarikanada]

You don't want that shit sitting there just cooking.

word. thanks!

 

[Shit Snacks]

Yeah that was my feeling, I think those people taking the massive dabs, with all the pearls and special bangers, there's a lot more variables in their setup so it's hard to judge... Sometimes it does seem to be pretty wasteful to me? Yeah I think the way to get multiple hits is to do cold starts, I haven't done that much in my experience... my buddy prefers the quick strong one-hitters, and he's the one I began dabbing with, but yeah the idea is if you're not using it all in one hit then there's not gonna be any residual stuff that would stay there until you clean it or torch it again, you know? More efficient for the dabs, balance of flavor and strong effect, etc. It may also depend on the quality of the dab material of course, and my own experience is a bit limited, but I would like to try a real terp oriented set up someday... Pure convection dabs can really bring out some flavor though they semi sacrifice clouds and effect?

 

[darbarikanada]

those people taking the massive dabs, with all the pearls and special bangers, there's a lot more variables in their setup

I'm with you on this. my guess is that the youtubers putting in big loads, taking huge hits, simply have lung capacity on a different level than me; I'm looking for what would probably be considered medium-sized hits with the best flavor. I'll definitely try your method, break my 'session' into 2 parts; from everything you've written, that'll solve my (first-world) problem. thanks again!

 

[invertedisdead]

thanks. I'm using a round-bottom banger (+ carb cap + pearl). I got it because I read about the good flavor of cold starts. I'm putting in the (.04g) load, then heating ~ 5-6 sec. with a triple torch. the youtube 'tutorial' I saw used a creme brulee torch for more like 10 sec, but it said to stop heating when you see vapor. sounds like you're saying I need to heat it longer, yes?

If it's a 25mm banger I would highly recommend a larger torch, as it will pump more heat energy into the quartz during the same amount of heatup time.
Since quartz has a low conductivity it doesn't heat evenly. A larger, more expansive flame really helps a lot there. For cold starts I like to heat the sides of the banger first before moving to the bottom, this will help minimize oil climbing up the walls.

You don't have to finish the dab in one inhalation, but the closer you can finish it in one heatup the better, that gives you a reasonable "thermal window" - finishing in one inhalation generally requires higher temps, or smaller dabs. It sounds like you're vaping all of the flavor and then left with the rest of the cannabinoids to be vaped, which will make up the majority of the actual vapor. Cutting the dab size in half is a good suggestion (pinhead) just have to be careful when dabbing small amounts on a cold start as its easy to go too far at first and chazz it on to the quartz.

I think what you need is a bigger torch to put more energy into the nail, that way it's not cooling down so fast on you. This is somewhat a reality to cold starts off quartz though, cold starts intrinsically dont allow the nail to store as much heat as a traditionally heated dab. That's why I love the sapphire insert now for cold starts, as its basically a battery that stores a ton of heat, enough to get 4 or 5 solid pulls off a dab. The cream of the crop for vapor quality, IMHO!

edit: also, if youre using a spinner cap, some of the cheap import ones are seriously awful/unusable, not saying this is your problem but it could easily cause issues if its wonky.

 

[darbarikanada]

It sounds like you're vaping all of the flavor and then left with the rest of the cannabinoids to be vaped, which will make up the majority of the actual vapor.

that's exactly what's happening: 2 tasty but not big hits, followed by 2-3 bad-tasting ones - the dropoff in flavor is abrupt.

I'll try dividing .04g into 2 loads next (and heat the side walls first). if I can get 2 nice hits from each load, that'll probably do me (I'm kind of a lightweight). if not: a bigger torch, maybe try inserts.

I saw in the insert thread that someone recommended continuing to heat for 1-3 sec after the material starts to boil. I've been stopping as soon as I see vapor, so I'll incorporate that.

clearly much 'research' needs to be done...

thanks for the detailed advice!

 

[MegaMan2k]

0.04 should be a pretty big cloud if ur at the right temp.

I would say 1 or 2 lung it, no re heats

 

[Shit Snacks]

that's exactly what's happening: 2 tasty but not big hits, followed by 2-3 bad-tasting ones - the dropoff in flavor is abrupt.

I'll try dividing .04g into 2 loads next (and heat the side walls first). if I can get 2 nice hits from each load, that'll probably do me (I'm kind of a lightweight). if not: a bigger torch, maybe try inserts.

I saw in the insert thread that someone recommended continuing to heat for 1-3 sec after the material starts to boil. I've been stopping as soon as I see vapor, so I'll incorporate that.

clearly much 'research' needs to be done...

thanks for the detailed advice!

Yeah and again I would try not doing a cold start, heat it beforehand, not too hot though, I do like low temp dabs... Especially when using a tiny amount, it just seems more efficient to me, less chance of any loss!

 

[darbarikanada]

I would try not doing a cold start, heat it beforehand, not too hot

not too hot, but hot enough that the dab immediately turns to vapor when I touch it to the banger (like when people use nails)?

0.04 should be a pretty big cloud if ur at the right temp.

I've been getting big clouds with .04g, but only on the third and fourth hit - but all the good flavor was in the first two hits.

from what everyone's said (thanks!), I've been underheating, resulting in a couple of 'mostly terps' hits at the start, but not enough heat to fully vaporize all the cannabanoids. if I understand right, getting things hotter, whether it's a cold start or preheating, and using smaller loads, should give me a happy medium: 1-2 big hits that have good flavor - and good efficiency.

 

[invertedisdead]

Let us know how those tips work for you!

 

[MegaMan2k]

@darbarikanada
Sounds like ur on the right path here!

Do you use any temp-readers like Terpometer, temptech, or dabrite?
The Terpometer was a huuuuge upgrade to my dabbing experience, i dont think ive had a hot dab since i got it, or too low for that matter

 

[darbarikanada]

Do you use any temp-readers like Terpometer, temptech, or dabrite?

no. I'm still seeing how much I like dabbing before buying more devices like an enail, temp-reader, etc.

 

[Ramahs]

no. I'm still seeing how much I like dabbing before buying more devices like an enail, temp-reader, etc.

Once you figure it out and get a feel for what you like with a proper banger and torch, you won't need any of those devices.
They are all a waste of money, designed for people that don't want to spend the time to figure it out manually, with exception to a pid controller and coil to keep the temp exactly where you want it..

 

[MegaMan2k]

Lol i did timer-tech and wrist-tech and so on for years and years before i switched to terpometer, and it was a huuuuuge step up in my dab experience.

yes the market is being flooded with these devices right now and some of them is more expensive than they should be.
but imo the terpometer is worth every penny and i wouldnt take a dabe any other way now.

def not designed for people "that dont want to spend the time to figure it out manually" big lol on that one.

 

[invertedisdead]

The dab thermometers are essentially an enail replacement. Instead of guessng where you're at, it gives you that enail consistency with a different power delivery.

Not necessary needed for cold starts, but for traditional dabs it allows a more consistent experience as you don't have to compensate for heatup/cool down time changes as the fuel level in the torch depletes.

 

[Ramahs]

When I want that kind of control, then I just use a coil around my banger controlled with a PID temperature controller.

 

[invertedisdead]

I hear ya there, but many people just prefer a torch over a plugin. Thats why these dab thermometers are way more popular than enails have ever been, and I say that as a huge enail advocate, you can barely even get one of these dab thermometers, and there's a bunch of different people selling them, Also torched dabs just hit differently, worth having both in the arsenal. I love the enails consistency and simplicity, but IMHO the torched banger outputs better vapor.

 

[Ramahs]

I hear ya there, but many people just prefer a torch over a plugin. Thats why these dab thermometers are way more popular than enails have ever been, and I say that as a huge enail advocate, you can barely even get one of these dab thermometers, and there's a bunch of different people selling them, Also torched dabs just hit differently, worth having both in the arsenal. I love the enails consistency and simplicity, but IMHO the torched banger outputs better vapor.

I hear ya. I appreciate the torch, and use it often because I often want to walk around and share. But when I'm alone at home, and sitting in one spot, I will always go for the "enail rig" (banger with heating coil and digital temp controller).

 

[MegaMan2k]

Yea i dont even think the 2 should be compared (Torch and E-nails) ...

I do own one of the most highly regarded e-nails in the game (E.ross 4.0) But i still tend to prefer the torch rip
And that is even if im at the office sitting at my desk where i could easily have my e-nail setup.

I did torch-tech for about 2 years then i switched to e-nail for about a full year,
and when i switched back to torch after the year of e-nail i was amazed by how much more potent the torch dabs feel.