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Lil' Bud by Vapwood

Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by Bravesst, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. P.A.M.

    P.A.M. Vapo Rising

    Messages:
    610
    Location:
    Planet Earth, North America
    :hmm:
    What I dont understand with this experiment is that, shouldn't there be no space for air to enter there at all ?

    I've noticed the stem doesn't seem snug at bowl end when closely inserted . Or does it fit snug and its just that I can't see down there when it's on . I assume not seeing holes on the side of your stem .

    Wouldnt that gap between roasting tube and LB joint be a heat loss of some sort ? Wouldn't resizing the hole or roasting tube seal things so that all the heat can go directly to the load ? @Alan probably has some insight on this ? I am confused, lol. I suppose the "gap" can perhaps serve as a air hover space for it to group and shoot up the tube?
     
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  2. Bravesst

    Bravesst Full Steam Ahead Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,127
    Location:
    Vapwood USA
    Good morning FC. First, @P.A.M. - The idea behind the little stem vents is to allow hot air to pass up the side of the stem, through the holes, heating the load from the sides, not just the bottom. The holes in the stem taper may sit tight up against the tapered sides. I haven't done so, because there is a slight amount of air that seeps in, but reducing the OD at the very tip will provide some clearance for the air to travel up the sides and into the stem, heating the load more evenly, or that's the idea. In practice, it definitely isn't hurting the session. So many things going on that it's hard to pin down. I rushed this last herb prep, and ruined the possibility of not stirring, as I had to stir after a hit or two to eliminate a bit of clumpyness. I also like the half inch ream on the ID, which really gives a seat to the screen, and allows just a bit more product.

    All units in batch 8B are complete - all repairs, all replacements, all new units. Monday will be a long day at the post office with about a dozen orders, many of which are international. I owe some stems, batts, to people, and that will also happen Monday.

    Batch 9
    Batch 9 will be the first Elite batch, but also include a few Classics, Blends, Uniqs. As of tomorrow, all energy is on the Elite. My first order of business is figuring out how to mount the chip on the front of the unit. It will sit in a shallow mortise, with cover plate over it. I am really looking forward to making the first attempt. I've invested in some new tools, another plunge router, so I'll have a dedicated router for this mortise (once it's set up, very nice to never have to change, makes for a very consistent process).

    Next, after the mortise is cut, and switch mounted, it's about wiring. I have a good mental handle on it, but am looking forward to actually getting in there and doing it. Evolv sells the DNA 75C chips for about $75, but ten are $650. Cover plates, sold separately, start at $25. Buttons and other miscellaneous items will go for another $10. So as of right now, parts are $100 additional. To determine how much additional work is involved will necessitate building a few, so until I build a few, I will absorb the extra labor (cutting a mortise for the chip, wiring in the chip, installing a cover plate, programming the chip). As a ball park, I'd say it will take about 25 to 50% longer to build each unit, and that will eventually become part of the Elite's price tag. For right now, the price sits at $299 bare bones, and will stay that way until I produce the first prototype.
     
  3. Bravesst

    Bravesst Full Steam Ahead Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,127
    Location:
    Vapwood USA
    Good Morning! Lots of work to be done, ready to pack up about a dozen orders for the post office tomorrow. There are a couple of real nice units that can find their way into that shipment.

    These Sweet Deals will sneak into batch 8 and ship tomorrow

    REF #106
    Uniq Blend $199 including mouthpiece
    Cherry / Walnut / Quilted Maple with White Maple Switch Box and Back Plate,
    Walnut Mouthpiece
    [​IMG]

    REF #102
    Purple Heart / Walnut s/b, b/p, m/p: $199 including mouthpiece

    [​IMG]

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    Tame the Shorties: $149 Bare Bones

    Reduced coil to stem distance - runs a bit hot

    REF #105
    Walnut / Uniq
    walnut, walnut b/p, s/b

    [​IMG]

    REF #104

    Black & Tan
    cherry, walnut, cherry

    [​IMG]
     
  4. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

    Messages:
    3,033
    Location:
    On Air
    So with all these various wood pieces together, I guess the "no glue inside" is no longer a selling point?
     
  5. P.A.M.

    P.A.M. Vapo Rising

    Messages:
    610
    Location:
    Planet Earth, North America
    There is no glue in the air path
    . I'm sure you noticed and just being your typical self
     
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  6. Bravesst

    Bravesst Full Steam Ahead Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,127
    Location:
    Vapwood USA
    @P.A.M.

    First test front cover mortise, cut in the actual stock I'll be using. For a first try, not too bad. The jig still needs a little adjustment, but it's functional. This mortise will actually be cut after pre-assembly, when the wire box gets attached to the main body. The bottom half of the mortise will be on the front of the wire box, which will no longer have a switch on the face of it.

    This is a Stinger cover plate, it's a nice touch that will be magnetically installed. With this in place like this, it's much easier for me to figure out the details. You can see the pencil lines marking off the 92 mm's (4 mm's on each end).

    Obviously, there is nothing wired up, but two 14 gauge wires will connect at the top, run down the space between the chip and unit (in the mortise), and enter the wire box. There, they will connect to the 18 gauge, uninsulated coil wires. Two other insulated wires will connect at the bottom, and run to the positive and negative battery terminals. It's a pretty straight forward set up. The only variable is running the long wires and soldering to the board, everything else has been done in LB.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Bravesst

    Bravesst Full Steam Ahead Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,127
    Location:
    Vapwood USA
    Good Morning,
    My mistake, as the Post Office is closed today. :mmmm: DOH! Tuesday's are always work days in Manhattan, so Wednesday it is.

    I had a great day with my pair of Elites yesterday. Built two units, right up until the pre-assembly stage. The are 15 mm wider at approximately 74 mm's. I left them a bit tall as well at 94 mm's. Thickness remains constant at 29 mm's. I left everything fully square, but the tapered hole is set back another 15 mm's from the front edge. The wire box (previously switch box) is 38 mm's tall and also set back another 15 mm's. The mortise will be cut in the front of the wire box.

    Even all blocky looking, I can see the potential. LB Elite is going to be regal looking, a combination of cutting edge technology and old school craftsmanship. I am very excited about the possibilities here.

    I am very confident in the future of Vapwood and Lil' Bud. As LB evolved into a finely tuned appliance, the true power of an unregulated 18650 battery and the coil has emerged. Ironically, I enjoy LB better now with a battery that's been run down through a couple of bowls. The Elite will allow you to do that, and much much more, right at the get go.

    Aesthetically, the first batch will pretty much be wider Classics. The difference will be in the ease of use, allowing you to control wattage or temperature. For me, it will be like working off a 3.8 battery the whole time. I have a few small parts still coming, but I am just about at the *figuring out how to wire* stage.

    It's hard to predict how the first builds will go. I am in uncharted territory here, but only as it relates to soldering to the DNA board, that's four solder joints. I am prepared, but still need to watch some videos, then dive in.

    I can see where the Elite will be a slower process with a larger wire box, 2 mortise joints and a DNA board to install. This probably will result in smaller batches of say 5 or so, with less overall units sold. That's just fine with me, as mass production for cheap isn't really what I want to do anyway.

    I just ordered a variety of Stinger cover plates. They are out of stock on most colors, so I'll have to pop over there again soon. At least for the start, this will speed things up considerably. It's like sourcing out a really difficult part of the job for $25 - right now it's worth it. Plus they will be interchangeable.
     
  8. Mr. Gweilo 420

    Mr. Gweilo 420 Dude

    Messages:
    2,106
    Location:
    The Far East
    Any Batch 8 porn?
     
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  9. Slickwilly

    Slickwilly Excombustor

    Messages:
    77
    Working on it :tup:

    My blend is simply beautiful :luv:

    Finally a button that stays cool no matter how hard you work it. Im so glad to able to get the most out of a LB now.

    I bet your glad to finally get the button monkey off you back, nice work @Bravesst

    The newest tweaking you have done really made a difference. It definitely extracts even quicker which seems to make the vapor cooler, if that makes sense :hmm:
    I took my first draw like I usually do. Slow and steady and wait for the slight heat on lips and release button then finish. Well did that on my LB 2.? and charred it pretty well, great vapor and all but too fast for me. I like to enjoy the flavor and just slightly toast each draw. Made my draw some what quicker and now got it right where I want it.

    This newest LB 2.? is almost at a point now where it does need to be regulated. Which makes perfect timeing to release the LBE. I believe that was your plan ever since the LBE was mentioned. Nice work again Mike!

    The finish and fit on my Blend is simply awesome! So smooth to the touch and cuts are precise. Backplate is slightly wider on this LB, which makes the gaps on sides almost gone.

    You really have fine tuned your skills! :bowdown:

    Your LB 3.0 looks even more sweet with the centered switch! :rockon:
     
  10. HerbieVonVapster

    HerbieVonVapster Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    726
    Awesome I can't wait to hear your thoughts after you get these wired and fired up. If need any help with the software aspect let me know. There's a bunch different custom wire cvs in the dna75c/250c download your welcome use whatever works best. For iheat I use the 316 or DJLSB custom 316L.

    I would suggest to test using the stock theme thru debugging and setting up resistance, lil bud profile etc. Then design a theme with setting that are used by the lil bud if so desire after after everything checks out. If go that route try to keep the theme onboard memory lower than 50% and keep the update well firing to a bare minimum.

    In this video are a couple of interesting points on using the correct material file at around the 13 min mark. There also some really interesting test results at around1:13 mins. Really show how well these boards work at producing the correct wattage and reproducing the correct temperatures. If you can't watch the whole video would suggest to at least check these 2 times points above.

    Click to play YouTube Video
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
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  11. Bravesst

    Bravesst Full Steam Ahead Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,127
    Location:
    Vapwood USA
    Long day in the shop, but worth it. I accomplished what I needed to. It wound up at 75 mm's wide, but that can shrink by about 5 mm's back down to 70. The board has been successfully wired in. I soldered to the board, and with @Alan's guidance, made all connections in the wire box. Very cool. I need to figure out a better system for mounting the chip, but here it is. I have zero idea on how to program @HerbieVonVapster , so I'll be watching the videos for sure.

    I did get a session or two last night, very interesting...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. el sargantano

    el sargantano Chasin' rabbits

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Mediterranean Shorefront
    It seems you're boosting the Santa's luge for the Xmas race.
    Congrats Captain!
     
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  13. Bravesst

    Bravesst Full Steam Ahead Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,127
    Location:
    Vapwood USA
    @Slickwilly Thanks, worked hard on that last batch. Yes, regulation is much less necessary now, when you can lean on and off the trigger for the same effect. Some want plug and play, some want to fine tune all the way. Now we'll have both.

    I've identified my main issues on the Elite prototype #1. I can cut 5 or 6 mm's off the width, and still keep my clearances, but I need to premount the chip before final assembly. The whole mounting system needs tweaking. Once the mount is worked out and solid, I can really get a feel of the plate and buttons.

    What I'm happy about is the soldering to the board wasn't so bad. My quad arms really came into play, as did a few a video or two. I'm amazed at how strong the connections to the board are.

    I'm happy to say that we'll have the LB Classic at a $179 and up price range, as well as the Elite at $299 and up price range. The first Elites will definitely be built this month, but orders are coming in pretty quickly. I'll keep you posted on time frames.
     
  14. HerbieVonVapster

    HerbieVonVapster Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    726
    Looking really good, I was a tad concerned with the connection being direct wire over using the 510 connection it might have presented some difficulty at first, really glad it was smooth sailing.

    Impressed this is the first time I seen anyone attempt to do this. Shit man you pulled it off on the first try. Shows that with doing the research and having @Alan an ideal is now a reality. Also was comforting to read that your using the correct wire gauges etc. Safety first :)

    Anyways a big Congrats guys!!!

    It looks like it's reading resistance a bit higher than iheats do. Is that due to a different designs or size of heater coil? Or due to being a direct connection? I'm also curious of choice nichrome as material? Where you getting cold hits with stock 316SS wire?

    In the DJLSB video he mentioned that DNA stock SS material runs cold. In my downloads his material is 316L. He also made 3 other 316L files. The 316L -V3.25, V3.5, V4. (lower #runs cooler) that are in download. Even with the LB is 316ss these might work better. Can also try out the iheat material that is 316 SS.

    After you hook it up to device manager. You see how it respond to the different settings and different material files. You will quickly get to that ah shit this all make sense moment. :) Then can plot out a custom material file if feel it's needed for the elite. Just like FJ has done for his tubo in the FJ software, but more specific for the LB Elite performance.

    Only wrong info I noticed is in the video is they have fixed the preheat on the board. Sounds like earlier firmware it wasn't working. I try to tweak my preheats to hit the set temperature ASAP with the minimum amount of overshooting. Good place to start is 10-15 watts higher than set temperature wattage. Using a temperature at 30 degrees lower than your set temperature.

    Try setting pre heat temp350 at 55w. Set target temp380 at 40w and watch the live graph. If wattage is not high enough to not maintain the set temperature well using muti different draw style increases it
    Escribe is a very useful tool and have a feeling your going love using it.
     
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  15. Bravesst

    Bravesst Full Steam Ahead Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,127
    Location:
    Vapwood USA
    Tomorrow is post office time. New units, repairs, replacements, stems, all going out. The other half of the day will be devoted to the Elite and furthering the process.

    @HerbieVonVapster *smooth sailing* might be a bit of an overstatement, but all things considered, it came together pretty easily. There's work to be done before it's hitting like the self regulated PBJ Blend I've just adopted as my latest DD (@Slickwilly 's twin brother), but we're on the way.

    I've ID'ed areas that need work, mounting the board, cover plate, wiring, sizing, but it worked pretty well as is. I didn't get too much chance to play with the programming, not really up to that just yet. First I want to get a well made fully functional prototype built. Too early to predict time frames on all this, but getting a unit assembled, and to actually work on day one is a really good sign. :clap:

    Here he is, by far, my best Lil' Bud of all time...
    [​IMG]

    Side note: This is one stellar unit, everything fits together like a glove. Here's what is unavoidable and can lead to feeling a proud, slightly raised switch box (not visible, but you can feel up to thousandths of an inch with your fingertips). The unit around the coil housing will shrink if used. The wood warms up, dries out, and does what wood does, contracts when dry. The switch box, stays very cool, as does everything but the area directly around the coil. This can only be felt where end grain meets end grain (horizontal joint).
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
  16. HerbieVonVapster

    HerbieVonVapster Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    726
    Lets go with smooth sailing considering the worse case option then. Sure with the cost of the chip you tripled check everything before installing battery and firing it up. Still at $80 buck a chip you had to be a little on edge the first time.


    I think we all seen what these batteries can do. I'm personally glad someone with your knowledge and awareness for safety is building designing this device for me. The last thing I want some half baked project that might catch fire or blow up. I feel your going produce a device that going works and will be safe enough to enter my home.

    Will the chip be seating in some sorta cradle to hold everything in place? Then have the stinger face plate hiding it all? Something along this line might work?
    http://analogboxmods.ca/DNA-Board-Mounting-Bracket
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
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  17. Bravesst

    Bravesst Full Steam Ahead Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,127
    Location:
    Vapwood USA
    Busy, busy, busy. Went to the post office yesterday with all but a couple of units. Just the way it worked out. I'm backed up on gauges, so need to form a few this weekend possibly. I'm off to work in about 20 minutes, so tracking is going to have to wait until later today. The rest of batch 8 will ship by Monday. Not bad, 3 trips for the entire batch, last batch was 4 trips.

    @HerbieVonVapster on the Elite...
    We are working in a wood box, changes things a bit. The board has 3 mounting holes, and can mount directly to the wood body. After running this through my brain over and over, I have a plan. I am in the process of fine tuning the numbers, but once I do, the board will mount directly to the unit, no clip needed, via the 3 mounting holes in the bd. For the two at the top, I will leave little shoulders in the mortise at the exact right height. I'll need one spacer / washer for the solo mount hole at the bottom of the chip. May take a few tries, but when done right, it will be rock solid with enough clearance for running wires.

    I'm in the process of sketching it all out in detail. That's what I'll be working on later today...
     
  18. P.A.M.

    P.A.M. Vapo Rising

    Messages:
    610
    Location:
    Planet Earth, North America
    I noticed one of my battery set seems to drop lower , not necessarily faster ? I'll put in the same amount of sessions but end up with a battery in the 3.20-3.40, where I'd usually end around 3.60-3.70..is this a sign my batteries might be wearing off? maybe I squeeze in more sessions without noticing ? Lol

    Today , cleaning my vaping drawer , I stumbled upon the top hat screens I never tried . I ordered them to try , @beyond6strings liked them, by the time my order came in from china , @beyond had switch to a dome screen like I use . I put the top hats in drawer and forgot about 'em.

    I torched a top hat screen and did two sessions so far. it does seem to extract a tad more or perhaps a tiny bit more even . I didn't notice sessions being quicker so far. The difference all together if one is very subtle.

    I do like how the solid steel rim of the top hat eliminate pointy mesh wire treads that bend at the rim of dome screens . The bowl of the top hat is a bit big to my liking but I still managed quality sessions having it filled about half way. I can see myself filling it more too on occasions , just like when my dome screen happens to have dropped without me noticing or
    Noticing but not caring .

    the fact that the top hat screen sits on the edge of the roasting tube and can't go further down the tube unlike a dome screen can is the best advantage. It's the reason I decided to try it .

    I do like @Bravesst idea of drilling the inside of the bowl tip wider so that a dome screen can sit in the tube and stay there , I'm just not comfortable with the idea of having a wider bowl. The screen must become flatter? Perhaps I could drill it just a tad and try it at risk of losing a tube lol

    Will continue to experiment with top hats see if it adds a horse or two in my Cherry Bomb
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
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  19. HerbieVonVapster

    HerbieVonVapster Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    726
    Edit--I wanted let Mike know you can test fire from the device manager with out needing to use the fire button. May be useful for early testing. Can test unit without needing to use any buttons. All controls can be done from the computer screen.



    Awesome rather keep it as simple as possible. Will the screen need any special mounting? Reason I ask is have seen a lot either screen mount or mount like posted below. Can the screen just sit against the chip without something holding it in place? Rather not see it just glued to chip in case we ever require a replacement screen.
    https://forum.evolvapor.com/topic/68761-dna-75-color-screen-cradle/

    https://www.protovapor.com/product/dna-color-screen-holder/

    http://www.modmaker.co.uk/DNA75C-Mount-Kit
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
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  20. Bravesst

    Bravesst Full Steam Ahead Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,127
    Location:
    Vapwood USA
    My brain hurts, literally...
    Relatively rough sketch, but what I need to get this done, focusing on the chip mortise. The shaded boxes are the shoulders the chip will sit on and mount to at the top. They need to be an exact height in relation to chip / plate. I will also need a spacer a the bottom of the chip, under the solo mount hole near the bottom (chip has 3 mount holes for #0 screws). The numbers have been worked out with a 70 mm width (about 10 wider). I'm going to try and keep to that. This might be all it takes, but the numbers need to be 100%. I think I can pull this off with a dedicated mini plunge router set up, over and over.

    94 mm x 70 mm x 29 mm
    [​IMG]
     
  21. Bravesst

    Bravesst Full Steam Ahead Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,127
    Location:
    Vapwood USA
    Interest in the Elite has been pretty intense. The timing couldn't have been better, as my previous tweaking of LB Classic dimensions has really paid off in a consistently smooth and powerful experience. My current PB & J daily driver is like milking a hardwood sponge of tasty vapor. Especially once you get in the zone with the heat transfer balance in the roasting tube, the sessions are quite remarkable, almost forget they are unregulated with so much control and feedback. In the end, hard to say what will win out for me as my DD.

    I am also happy to report, I found a good supplier for the Evolv DNA 75C chip. The Stinger face plates are already out of stock at USModz, and another reason to make my own, but I'd rather not add that much time and effort to the project. Overall, pre-manufactured plates will be a huge time saver, look awesome, and are interchangeable.

    The website has been updated with projected time frames for completion. At this point, it's about figuring out the very fine points, with the current project *mounting the board to the unit* in full swing. I am ecstatic I got a working prototype together, as this will allow each little puzzle to be solved. I've broken things down to 3 phases, and I'm currently in the middle of Phase One. To predict an exact delivery date would be a ball park at best, but here are my best case scenario goals for completions, in 3 phases of development.

    Phase One / Puzzle One: mounting the board for proper function.

    PHASE ONE (CURRENT PHASE)
    I want to get a unit fully functional this week, maybe some size or cosmetic issues not completely worked out, but STRUCTURALLY / ELECTRONICALLY tweaked, front plate and buttons in place. At some point after about 10/31 to 11/10 select prototypes will begin to ship. This will completely depend on where I am in development.
    FUNCTIONAL PROTOTYPE: October 22, 2018

    PHASE TWO
    Next, it will be on to unit function / interaction between coil and chip, and finding the best way to use the Elite. There are a lot of variables to be worked out. I don't see many structural changes, coil distance adjustments, but this would be the time to make any adjustments to what's going on in the coil chamber. If I have units that are operating at what I consider up to par, I will send out to my first prototype purchasers (5). Unit performance must be at 100% before shipping.
    TWEAKED PROTOTYPE: November 10, 2018

    PHASE THREE
    Lastly, let's nail down dimensions, get this thing as small as possible and still keep an overkill mentality on clearances (chip to coil). I am also thinking about a second layer of foil under the chip, if necessary, to keep heat from the board. This may not be necessary, but we'll find out in this phase of development. All cosmetic changes will be nailed down and executed.
    FULLY OPERATIONAL / COSMETICALLY COMPLETE: Dec 1, 2018

    This is the PLAN. I will do my best to stick to it, and beat it if possible, but more importantly, the Elite lives up to what you and I both expect it to be.
     
  22. DirtyD

    DirtyD Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    363
    Location:
    Southeast us
    Man oh man that sounds awesome! Eating popcorn slowly!
     
  23. P.A.M.

    P.A.M. Vapo Rising

    Messages:
    610
    Location:
    Planet Earth, North America
    Since Elite will be taking more thread space being "In The making" should we perhaps start it's own thread ? I'm sure lots including myself will follow and participate in both threads.

    Was Batch 8 a mix of shorties , old size, lowered switch and all that ? What are the final dimensions for Lil' Bud Classic ?
     
  24. hoyo77

    hoyo77 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    877
    Indeed!!!
     
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  25. nonbeliever

    nonbeliever Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    122
    Location:
    Where it’s legal......
    :cool:I’m excited to be able to add something to the conversation here. It was a doubly beautiful day here in the PNW, sunny +. My Beaded Walnut Lil Bud showed up today to add to a beautiful day. With all of the requests for some bud porn, here you can see him enjoying the sun and getting to know the cedars in his back yard....


    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Mike, awesome craftsmanship and what a wonderful design! Beyond my expectations!

    EDIT: Holy crap! Quite sneaky the way it wrecks you!
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018

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