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I just got a vac pump and chamber...what now ;)

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by clukx, May 3, 2014.

  1. clukx

    clukx Active Member

    Messages:
    108
    as title states I got a vac it pro 3 gallon chamber and a j/b 5cfm 2 stage 1/2 hp vac pump
    Tomorrow im going to get pump oil but im still not even sure how to use these two items as ive been using a griddle or toaster oven for previous extraction...
    Ive used the search function already..
    Just don't wanna pull pump oil into my errl :)
    thanks for the help
  2. Bouldorado

    Bouldorado Well-Known Member

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  3. Caligula

    Caligula *results not typical.

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    Read twice, purge once.
  4. mvapes

    mvapes Surrounded by the healthy!

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    Hey buddy,

    I have a JB DV4e with a bel-art desiccator. As far as oil I hope you stuck with black gold. Regardless, your starting with a true heavy duty pump. 5 CFM's is a beast but with that being said I believe it only pulls 25 microns which keeps you safe from pulling terps.

    The trick to a good concentrate is balance between the initial heat purge and the temperature inside of your vacuum. On the initial purge right after extraction I NEVER let the actual product raise above 100 degrees, I also don't let it go all the way till every bubbles popped. Your about to stick that stuff under a super vac that will get out the rest of the tane.

    Now, you have this glob of shit in front of you so what do you do? Scrape it onto silicone and get it into the vac.

    Wrong! Understand that withing a vacuum environment chemicals react differently, not only do their boiling points change but so does the make up of what's in the chamber. I too loved using silicone, until I found this...

    Why one shouldn't spray or scrape onto silicone!

    http://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance

    Check it out, silicone is bad.

    Also keep in mind that shatter, although the prettiest is the first level of achievement. It has the least activated medicinal content of all the different consistency.

    This is followed by hard wax, then honey which is the purest, well technically because then you get honeycomb which I would stay away from at this point. They're not real stable and degrade fast!

    So you now scrape onto parchment (au natural) throw her in the vac at about 110 and be patient. I usually flip it after about 30, then leave that shit alone. Usually with the JB it's anywhere from 4 hours to 16.

    Here's a pic of yesterday's gold...

    [​IMG]

    The strain is called Kong, becoming a big fan.
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  5. HugieLewis

    HugieLewis I'm not an expert but I have a strong opinion

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    Good advice @mvapes. How do you control the heat portion of your purge? As in what items do you use to hold the heat steady?
    Bouldorado and mvapes like this.
  6. mvapes

    mvapes Surrounded by the healthy!

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    After the extraction process I use a Rival Hot Plate set at 120. When using butane as your solvent you have to watch your temperatures and balance. After your extraction your temperature is going to be anywhere between -5 and 20, the temperature of the grill can be played with but the inner temperature of the product should never get above 100 degrees. I always recommend a laser thermometer for this purpose.

    Once I scrape my goo she goes into a chamber resting in warm water atop my grill set with a digital thermometer inside to maintain 100 - 110 degrees throughout the process.

    The toughest part is patience. It has to vac for a while, remember you kept that lower temp for the initial purge so there's plenty of tane in there. To be honest, I have never had a completely free product in less than 4 hours in the chamber. In fact there's times I got shatter after 16 to 18 hours.

    Firthermore - the type of butane you use matters! This is an excerpt from a site I learn from on N - Butane which is what I use...

    Lastly, selecting a suitable butane source is a key step, in that all butane sources aren’t created equal. n-Butane (normal butane) is a simple alkane, with four carbon atoms linked together in a row, with the remaining possible carbon bonding sites taken up by hydrogen atoms.

    The simple alkanes all are gaseous at room temperature and atmospheric pressure. They are removed from crude oil before it is further processed, by simple heating. The simplest is Methane, which is only on carbon and four hydrogen atoms, followed by Ethane with two carbons, Propane with three, and Butane with the four.

    Pentane is the next simple alkane, the first to be liquid at room temperature and the first to have zero water solubility. From Pentane on, the simple alkanes are named from the Greek alphabet, and are Hexane, Heptane, Octane, etc, on through the light naphthas, oils, waxes, and asphalts.

    The formula for all simple alkanes, is the number of carbon atoms times two, plus two, because each carbon atom has four possible bonding sites. A mnemonic device for remembering the first four alkanes, which were named before the Greek system was applied, is Mary Eats Peanut Butter.

    After removal from the crude oil, the gases are typically de-sulfurized using steam and a catalytic reactive bed, and fractionally distilled into the four basic gases. As fractional distilling separates the gasses by specific gravity, the principal contaminants in n-Butane at that point, will be Iso-Butane, a branched molecule isomer of n-Butane, as well as n-Propane, and Cyclo-Propane, plus low levels of heavier, longer oleaginous alkane wax chains.

    Neither of the butanes or propanes are particularly toxic at any sort of reasonable levels. The following for instance is taken from a typical MSDS sheet for n-Butane. The Rat LD-50 (50% dead) is 658000 mg/m3 4 hours. That is breathing a 65.8% pure butane atmosphere and asphixiating.

    Sorry I get sciency with this stuff, It's important what I allow into my lungs and it should be for everyone.
    hishighness and HugieLewis like this.
  7. 215z

    215z Well-Known Member

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    mvapes likes this.
  8. mvapes

    mvapes Surrounded by the healthy!

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    Please keep reading that thread, there's a reason only 10 people liked his posts. These kind of self labeled scientists are the same fucking idiots advising people in ways that are completely wrong and people are dying!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by puretane4honeyB [​IMG]
    Thank you for the information! There is a new product out called PURETANE. Which is USA made! Check us out would love to hear your feedback for our product! www.puretanewholesale.com!
    We have done many tests on all the other butanes out there and we are exceptionally happy with our results!
    We do have lab results to back it up [​IMG]
    "Not all butane is created equally! There are 2 different types of butane that make up the most common brands of butane. Isobutane and N-Butane.
    Most cheap brands use Isobutane (2-METHYL PROPANE) and is more toxic and hazardous than N-Butane."

    BS!

    Please post all test results here, now. Anyone else back me on that, or should he just go due to spamin' me thread? ;-)

    Capital N-butane is for real, guys are receiving product, and seem to be very happy, mine should be here today or tomorrow.

    From another site written by the head oil maker at a laboratory in Colorado.

    Butane is harmless as a residue. In fact, n-butane is an approved food additive.

    The odorants used in retail butane canisters includes mercaptans that are mildly toxic. These mercaptan odorants are so stinky (they smell like skunky garlic) very little is needed to odorize retail cans of butane (less than 5 parts per million), so even they don't pose much of a health threat as residues in amateur oil extractions.

    Professional extractors use n-butane, which contains no odorants.

    Increasingly, oil extractions are accomplished using supercritical carbon dioxide as the solvent, which poses no exposure hazards and is not flammable.

    "Lighter fluid" refers to several substances. Traditionally, the term referred to the naphtha mixture used for wick lighters. Naphtha lighter fluid is not used for cannabis oil extractions, because it can be difficult to properly purge from the extraction and even the slightest amount of naphtha residue causes the extraction to reek of lighter fluid.

    Butane is extremely dangerous only to the amateur manufacturer. Professionals understand how to work safely with pressurized and flammable gases and follow chemical industry-accepted manufacturing guidelines and standards.

    Hash does degrade and so do most hash oil and waxes. Plant waxes from cannabis in unprocessed hash and oils are highly polyunsaturated and go rancid very quickly. Many of the studies claiming shelf stability for hashish are simply outdated and incorrect.

    The reasons that oil products are becoming more popular are their potency and convenience. Period.

    Yes, these oils are easier to transport during prohibition, as are more potent cannabis flowers.

    But the proper response to this increase in potency should be better dosage guidance for all cannabis products. And that dosage guidance is lacking.

    Because cannabis and its derivatives are nontoxic, users tend to use more than is needed. Overuse results in tolerance. And cannabis oil is increasingly used to address cannabis tolerance. The 80% THC content of the most potent cannabis oils easily overcomes most cannabis tolerance that develops among regular cannabis users. However, using cannabis oil to overcome tolerance issues can result in even higher levels of cannabis tolerance.

    And there is another minor issue associated with cannabis oil and "dabbing.' An unsuspecting cannabis user that is given their first "dab bomb" may have a very unpleasant experience that may even result in a visit to the emergency room for some Valium and medical reassurance. Cannabis won't kill anyone, but an excessive dose of it can be quite frightening. The unpleasant experiences of some "old-timers" with these new high-potency oils has been noted at several recent cannabis conferences.

    Everyone has a right to do what they want but please be careful on what you inhale. I know it wasn't meant with any negative attention but reading shit like that can get you hurt. Ronson? Are you out of your fucking mind?

    He never explained the residue was harmless...
    RUDE BOY likes this.
  9. DieHard

    DieHard Vertical transportation specialist.

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    @HugieLewis
    For temperature control I am using a BBQ Guru. I also use this to smoke meats. The controller(Red) has a probe that I have clipped to the rack in the bottom of the electric skillet with water. The Controller senses the temp and sends a signal to the Power Raptor which turns on the skillet until the probe gets to the set (chosen on the Controller) temperature. Very precise temperature control for cooking.
    [​IMG]
    215z, farscaper, FLskwat and 2 others like this.
  10. mvapes

    mvapes Surrounded by the healthy!

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    Really nice set up DH. :tup:

    In the chamber I monitor my temp utilizing an inexpensive digital thermometer.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
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  11. DieHard

    DieHard Vertical transportation specialist.

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    Looks great.! I may get a little digital like that to further monitor temp. But what about the electronic thermometer out-gassing nasties also:shrug:.
    I'm waiting patiently...not really. But waiting for results tonight. :popcorn:
    215z and mvapes like this.
  12. mvapes

    mvapes Surrounded by the healthy!

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    I guess great minds think alike! Although it was cheap, I picked the only thermometer they had with the LED completely encapsulted in glass. It uses an external sensor on the back side and it merely sends the signal the the screen. I tested it numerous times prior to a purge and there was no reduction or difference on the screen at full vac.

    Plus, the guy that helped me pick it out said I would see the screen start to blacken before catastrophic failure allowing me to pull the load and dump the thermometer.

    The other thing I looked for was to make sure there was no silicone present. I posted a link earlier showing that under vacuum pressure silicone and butane make for a volatile mix.

    http://www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/ChemComp.asp

    Check it out, pretty heavy shit.
    215z, DieHard and FLskwat like this.
  13. Bouldorado

    Bouldorado Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    935
    Location:
    CO
    I've read a decent bit about preserving oil flavor during the vac purge.

    25 microns is a pretty deep vacuum. It's greater than 99.99% according to this chart. If the chamber actually reaches that level (doubtful) it'll boil liquids at room temperature. So once you add heat, you're definitely losing terps.

    [​IMG]

    For reference, here's a list of terpene boiling temps. The lowest is ß-caryophyllene at 246˚F. Just my :2c: but I don't think that particular terp plays a big role in flavor.

    This article (worth a read) says α-pinene is in some of my favorite strains; Chemdawg and Trainwreck. That's a terpene you want to keep around. :D From the previous link, you can see it boils at 312˚F.

    Using a boiling pt calculator I found if you vacuum past 10-15mm Hg, you can't really heat the oil enough to thin it without boiling off cannabinoids.


    I agree with you those tests don't prove much. However # of likes on icMag isn't the best way to rate content. I've been a member there for ~ 2yrs (~8 posts) and can't like anything; I think 50 posts are required. If their membership is anything like FC's, then most of the members can't even 'like' the posts they read.
    215z and mvapes like this.
  14. mvapes

    mvapes Surrounded by the healthy!

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    love the chart, that exact chart is why I bought a bought a shuttlecock valve for my pump. Once I flip (usually after 30 minutes) I open the valve bringing pressure below 27. After the initial purge which is where you have to be most careful with your temps (keep in mind, the bigger the bubbles are the more terps released when popped, so I run to about 98 degrees. I have a few bubbles and gas left but that's what we use the vac for.

    Now about the guy on icMag - the guy's just plain wrong. He judged butane's based leftover residue without telling anyone that the residue was harmless. He advised people to RONSON dude. It has the highest concentration of propane out of the whole list! Yes, 99% of the butane's on the market use propane as a propellant (hence the 99%PURE Labels) and that's exactly why I use the ole' Capital N, -0- propane.

    I mean no disrespect towards IC, I lurk often - just one's ignorance.

    FDA CFR Title #21
    FDA CFR Title #21

    FDA Code of Federal Regulations
    [Code of Federal Regulations]
    [Title 21, Volume 3]
    [Revised as of April 1, 2013]
    [CITE: 21CFR184.1165]


    TITLE 21--FOOD AND DRUGS
    CHAPTER I--FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION
    DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
    SUBCHAPTER B--FOOD FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION (CONTINUED)

    PART 184 -- DIRECT FOOD SUBSTANCES AFFIRMED AS GENERALLY RECOGNIZED AS SAFE

    Subpart B--Listing of Specific Substances Affirmed as GRAS

    Sec. 184.1165 n-Butane and iso-butane.
    (a) n-Butane and iso-butane (empirical formula C4H10,CAS Reg. Nos. 106-97-8 and 75-28-5, respectively) are colorless, flammable gases at normal temperatures and pressures. They are easily liquefied under pressure at room temperature and are stored and shipped in the liquid state. The butanes are obtained from natural gas by fractional following absorption in oil, adsorption to surface-active agents, or refrigeration.

    (b) The ingredients must be of a purity suitable for their intended use.

    (c) In accordance with 184.1(b)(1), these ingredients are used in food with no limitations other than current good manufacturing practice. The affirmation of these ingredients as generally recognized as safe (GRAS) as direct human food ingredients is based upon the following current good manufacturing practice conditions of use:

    (1) The ingredients are used as propellants, aerating agents, and gases as defined in 170.3(o)(25) of this chapter.

    (2) The ingredients are used in food at levels not to exceed current good manufacturing practice.

    (d) Prior sanctions for these ingredients different from the uses established in this section do not exist or have been waived.

    [48 FR 57270, Dec. 29, 1983, as amended at 73 FR 8607, Feb. 14, 2008; 76 FR 59249, Sept. 26, 2011]


    I'm only saying that the member on icmag was completely misleading. I know he wasn't doing it intentional (or at least until I read his recommendation of Ronsol :mental:) or anything but more reading needs to be done. We're putting this shit in our lungs, for a few dollars more my health is worth it.

    Now on another note - I ran some Kong today - huge fucking yielder!

    :science:
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