1. What does SSTB mean? See our glossary of acronyms.
    Dismiss Notice

How much does a good vape reduce risk of Stroke and heat attack compared to smoking

Discussion in 'Medical Discussion' started by cascades, Mar 20, 2019.

  1. cascades

    cascades Active Member

    Messages:
    83
    Location:
    SW Washington
    I just looked at the relative risk of heavily smoking cannabis vs tobacco. I'd try to post links on this later. What I'm noticing is the relative risk of both seems pretty proportional to carbon monoxide exposure. That is somthing any good vaporizer eliminates.

    The big remaining factors for cannaabis include tar and ammonia. A vaportizer plus a water pipe might help with both of those. I've seen a previous poster showing how a water prime reduces ammonia exposure of you lungs. Anyhow, I wanted to get a discussion going here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  2. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,114
    If you find some direct link between a chemical from cigarette smoking and cardiovascular disease, you need to publish as scientists have looked for such a thing for a long time. The answer is almost assuredly going to be some combination of factors and will depend on the individual. Then, what do you mean by "risk"? Are you talking of the risk of developing a narrowed path in the arteries, of of the risk of developing a clot that will clog up that pipe?

    Another thing that comes to mind is the TYPE of stroke. I assumed cardiovascular issues as in an ischemic stroke. But, hemorrhagic stroke risk is also increased. The two types of strokes do not have the same risk factors and mechanisms.
     
    YaMon and Madri-Gal like this.
  3. Madri-Gal

    Madri-Gal Child Of The Revolution

    Messages:
    755
    Location:
    Livin' in the 707
    A discussion is fine, but a discussion is going to just be guessing unless there have been studies and research. You are asking about medical science, and you need medical science for the answer. How else would anyone know otherwise ? Where are you showing tar and ammonia from vaping ? Talking about smoking cannabis or tobacco isn't much use at FC.
    Best ways to avoid stroke and heart attack remains proper diet and exercise, and not smoking tobacco. It's never a good idea to breathe carbon monoxide. If you are looking for risk reduction, you might want to start there.
     
  4. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,710
    smoking = 4000 + newly formed aromatic hydrocarbons ( toxins). cannabis has 568 constituent parts and igniting them into smolder / fire will create those aromatics. vaping over 400 F has shown to produce at least two known aromatics and maybe more but as long as there is no smoldering cinder there is no soot ETC...
    the Key with cannabis is the phytocannabinoids... those plant ligands serve to provide protection for our cells even when you smoke the plant. ( Dr Donald Tashkin cannabis smoke research ).
    when vaporized without the soot the phytocannabinoids are even more effective @ protection of our cells... ( patent #6630507)
    the purpose of the cannabinoid for cannabis species is as a UV protective compound... they serve as secondary metabolites for the plant, they sit outside of the plant serving a role of secondary protective means. this protective attribute is how the phytocannabinoids express in man as well . they are expressed as anti oxidant neurotransmitters @ the point of metabolism in our cannabinoid receptors located on cell surfaces and intracellular mechanisms .
    let me know if you have questions or answers... it is all good
     
  5. cascades

    cascades Active Member

    Messages:
    83
    Location:
    SW Washington
    Sick Vape likes this.
  6. ginolicious

    ginolicious Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,962
    Is it really the product itself or the way it’s ingested. Hats my belief.

    You don’t get strokes from chewing Tobacco. I don’t think you are at risk for stroke from eating cannabis either.

    Vaporizing eleiminates a crap ton of the nasty crap found in smoking. So I dunno. But when we vape all those negative chemicals and elements do not occur. But yes I’m not scientist.
     
    Madri-Gal likes this.
  7. Madri-Gal

    Madri-Gal Child Of The Revolution

    Messages:
    755
    Location:
    Livin' in the 707
    It is well established that long term use of chewing tobacco can cause stroke, as well as heart disease and cancer.
     
    Megaton likes this.
  8. ginolicious

    ginolicious Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,962
    Fair enough. Didn’t know that one. But like I said. Not a scientist haha. Just a stoner.
     
    Madri-Gal likes this.
  9. Madri-Gal

    Madri-Gal Child Of The Revolution

    Messages:
    755
    Location:
    Livin' in the 707
    Nothing wrong with being a stoner. I proudly count myself among that number. You always have something interesting to say, @ginolicious, and I always enjoy your posts.
     
    YaMon and Sick Vape like this.
  10. ginolicious

    ginolicious Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,962
    What about canna dips. Would that increase chances of a stroke.
     
    Madri-Gal likes this.
  11. Madri-Gal

    Madri-Gal Child Of The Revolution

    Messages:
    755
    Location:
    Livin' in the 707
    There is no tobacco in Canna dips. Tobacco is the problem with tobacco products. Enjoy your Canna dips in good health. They look like fun.
     
  12. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,710
    look up work from Dr David Allen on cannabis to prevent and help stroke victims...
    Also, Israel has been using Volcano vaporizers in their hospitals for 10 years now, used to treat heart condition mostly = Look It Up
    phytocannabinoids are active in LOX / COX pathways that lead to heart... that is the lipid oxygenation of fatty acids to create crystalline compounds ( signalling lipids / cananbinoids)
    Dr David Allen on cannabis and heart conditions https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Dr+David+Allen+on+cannabis+and+heart+conditions&t=ffcm&atb=v165-2__&ia=web
     
    YaMon, cascades and invertedisdead like this.
  13. cascades

    cascades Active Member

    Messages:
    83
    Location:
    SW Washington
    This paper suggests that even smokeles tobacco presents some stroke risk, but they don't control for dosage enough that I can use it to differentiate CO in smoke from the tobacco
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18854704
     
    Madri-Gal likes this.
  14. cascades

    cascades Active Member

    Messages:
    83
    Location:
    SW Washington
    What this suggests is that the cannabinoids reduce the stroke risks the CO in smoke causes and vaping might be a net win.

     
    C No Ego likes this.
  15. ginolicious

    ginolicious Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,962
    So I guess it’s not the cannabinoids itself. Rather it’s the method ingested?
     
    Madri-Gal likes this.
  16. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,710
    yes, the cannabinoids ( phytocannabinoids ) are the protective compounds. our cells absorb phytocannabinoids and signal with them... that signalling is the Key to the process... Retrograde homeostasis signalling communication via ligand gated / voltage gated channels ( cannabinoid receptors)... the cananbinoid crystallizes a through channel in our cells ( bio-activity , confirmation of change) so as to allow feedback messaging to inform cell of the extracellular space ( the matrix).
    Dr David Allen https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dr+david+allen+cannabis
     
    YaMon likes this.
  17. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,575
    I believe that the link is that nicotine raises your blood pressure which in turn effects your artery walls and thickens and roughs them up facilitating plaque build up....or at least that's what I remember from two MI's and a near miss "got the stent inserted in the nick of time"! haha
     
    Madri-Gal likes this.
  18. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,114
    There are all kinds of correlations. But, some people who smoke don't get atherosclerosis and there is not a mechanism to explain why not.
     
    Madri-Gal likes this.

Support FC, visit our trusted friends and sponsors