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How much does a good vape reduce risk of Stroke and heat attack compared to smoking

Discussion in 'Medical Discussion' started by cascades, Mar 20, 2019.

  1. cascades

    cascades Active Member

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    I just looked at the relative risk of heavily smoking cannabis vs tobacco. I'd try to post links on this later. What I'm noticing is the relative risk of both seems pretty proportional to carbon monoxide exposure. That is somthing any good vaporizer eliminates.

    The big remaining factors for cannaabis include tar and ammonia. A vaportizer plus a water pipe might help with both of those. I've seen a previous poster showing how a water prime reduces ammonia exposure of you lungs. Anyhow, I wanted to get a discussion going here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  2. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

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    If you find some direct link between a chemical from cigarette smoking and cardiovascular disease, you need to publish as scientists have looked for such a thing for a long time. The answer is almost assuredly going to be some combination of factors and will depend on the individual. Then, what do you mean by "risk"? Are you talking of the risk of developing a narrowed path in the arteries, of of the risk of developing a clot that will clog up that pipe?

    Another thing that comes to mind is the TYPE of stroke. I assumed cardiovascular issues as in an ischemic stroke. But, hemorrhagic stroke risk is also increased. The two types of strokes do not have the same risk factors and mechanisms.
     
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  3. Madri-Gal

    Madri-Gal Child Of The Revolution

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    A discussion is fine, but a discussion is going to just be guessing unless there have been studies and research. You are asking about medical science, and you need medical science for the answer. How else would anyone know otherwise ? Where are you showing tar and ammonia from vaping ? Talking about smoking cannabis or tobacco isn't much use at FC.
    Best ways to avoid stroke and heart attack remains proper diet and exercise, and not smoking tobacco. It's never a good idea to breathe carbon monoxide. If you are looking for risk reduction, you might want to start there.
     
  4. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

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    1,856
    smoking = 4000 + newly formed aromatic hydrocarbons ( toxins). cannabis has 568 constituent parts and igniting them into smolder / fire will create those aromatics. vaping over 400 F has shown to produce at least two known aromatics and maybe more but as long as there is no smoldering cinder there is no soot ETC...
    the Key with cannabis is the phytocannabinoids... those plant ligands serve to provide protection for our cells even when you smoke the plant. ( Dr Donald Tashkin cannabis smoke research ).
    when vaporized without the soot the phytocannabinoids are even more effective @ protection of our cells... ( patent #6630507)
    the purpose of the cannabinoid for cannabis species is as a UV protective compound... they serve as secondary metabolites for the plant, they sit outside of the plant serving a role of secondary protective means. this protective attribute is how the phytocannabinoids express in man as well . they are expressed as anti oxidant neurotransmitters @ the point of metabolism in our cannabinoid receptors located on cell surfaces and intracellular mechanisms .
    let me know if you have questions or answers... it is all good
     
  5. cascades

    cascades Active Member

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    Location:
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  6. ginolicious

    ginolicious Well-Known Member

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    Is it really the product itself or the way it’s ingested. Hats my belief.

    You don’t get strokes from chewing Tobacco. I don’t think you are at risk for stroke from eating cannabis either.

    Vaporizing eleiminates a crap ton of the nasty crap found in smoking. So I dunno. But when we vape all those negative chemicals and elements do not occur. But yes I’m not scientist.
     
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  7. Madri-Gal

    Madri-Gal Child Of The Revolution

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    It is well established that long term use of chewing tobacco can cause stroke, as well as heart disease and cancer.
     
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  8. ginolicious

    ginolicious Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. Didn’t know that one. But like I said. Not a scientist haha. Just a stoner.
     
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  9. Madri-Gal

    Madri-Gal Child Of The Revolution

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    Nothing wrong with being a stoner. I proudly count myself among that number. You always have something interesting to say, @ginolicious, and I always enjoy your posts.
     
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  10. ginolicious

    ginolicious Well-Known Member

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    What about canna dips. Would that increase chances of a stroke.
     
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  11. Madri-Gal

    Madri-Gal Child Of The Revolution

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    There is no tobacco in Canna dips. Tobacco is the problem with tobacco products. Enjoy your Canna dips in good health. They look like fun.
     
  12. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

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    1,856
    look up work from Dr David Allen on cannabis to prevent and help stroke victims...
    Also, Israel has been using Volcano vaporizers in their hospitals for 10 years now, used to treat heart condition mostly = Look It Up
    phytocannabinoids are active in LOX / COX pathways that lead to heart... that is the lipid oxygenation of fatty acids to create crystalline compounds ( signalling lipids / cananbinoids)
    Dr David Allen on cannabis and heart conditions https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Dr+David+Allen+on+cannabis+and+heart+conditions&t=ffcm&atb=v165-2__&ia=web
     
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  13. cascades

    cascades Active Member

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    Location:
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    This paper suggests that even smokeles tobacco presents some stroke risk, but they don't control for dosage enough that I can use it to differentiate CO in smoke from the tobacco
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18854704
     
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  14. cascades

    cascades Active Member

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    Location:
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    What this suggests is that the cannabinoids reduce the stroke risks the CO in smoke causes and vaping might be a net win.

     
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  15. ginolicious

    ginolicious Well-Known Member

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    So I guess it’s not the cannabinoids itself. Rather it’s the method ingested?
     
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  16. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

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    1,856
    yes, the cannabinoids ( phytocannabinoids ) are the protective compounds. our cells absorb phytocannabinoids and signal with them... that signalling is the Key to the process... Retrograde homeostasis signalling communication via ligand gated / voltage gated channels ( cannabinoid receptors)... the cananbinoid crystallizes a through channel in our cells ( bio-activity , confirmation of change) so as to allow feedback messaging to inform cell of the extracellular space ( the matrix).
    Dr David Allen https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dr+david+allen+cannabis
     
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  17. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

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    4,883
    I believe that the link is that nicotine raises your blood pressure which in turn effects your artery walls and thickens and roughs them up facilitating plaque build up....or at least that's what I remember from two MI's and a near miss "got the stent inserted in the nick of time"! haha
     
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  18. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

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    There are all kinds of correlations. But, some people who smoke don't get atherosclerosis and there is not a mechanism to explain why not.
     
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  19. Truth Seeker

    Truth Seeker Well-Known Member

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    Is there any link with atherosclerosis and combusted cannabis? Or with vaped cannabis? Such as does the risk go higher with higher temps such as over 400 f? Or is the risk of developing atherosclerosis from vaping non existent?
     
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  20. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

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    Some studies propose using cannabis as a treatment for atherosclerosis.

    I'll wait until the science becomes a bit more clear before buying into that theory.
     
  21. Truth Seeker

    Truth Seeker Well-Known Member

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    I wonder which delivery method would be of choice for treatment? I doubt they’d go via inhalation but you never know? Could be the best means of transport to get directly there immediately but I don’t know with heart patients any forms via inhalation might not be the best route.

    Unfortunately due to prohibition all these years we really don’t know of all the cases of health effects or even deaths via combustion where coronary artery disease was the cause of death even possibly from prolonged combustion use and bad diet lack of exercise etc.

    People usually wouldn’t talk to their doctor about their usage so at the time of death the medical profession wouldn’t be looking for any signs of long-term usage being associated with a heart attack, stroke, pulmonary embolism, deep vein thrombosis etc.

    There’s got to be a negative side effect to long-term combustion exasperating those types of issues. There’s just not much data on it and for the past 40 years people probably weren’t being honest with their doctor due to the stigma involved with prohibition and even the stigma that exist today with legalization there still is a stigma with usage in the medical profession in regards to cannabis and now the vape scare they will tie that into flower vaping or think it’s the same thing when a patient makes mention to their primary physician who is usually ignorant on such matters.
     
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  22. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

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    1,856
    inhaling decarboxylated signalling metabolites ( phytocannabinods) creates a hydrolytic metabolic mechanism @ cell receptors...
    eating raw cannabis or juicing it Raw creates a catalyst type metabolic mechanism .
    Raw cannabis mimics early stage endocannabinoid production in our cells ( pre-cursors )
    decarbed cannabis mimics late stage endocannabinoids ( FAAH / oxidized intracellular sulfur)
     
  23. Truth Seeker

    Truth Seeker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    131
    I greatly appreciate your post things I’ve learned quite a bit from them. What’s your view on cannabis and mTOR inhibition?

    It seems like this is a real negative that I haven’t seen brought up yet on this forum?

    I guess this is where moderation and the essential need for it comes into play?
     
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  24. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,856
    I'll look into that one... have not seen much mention of it . thanks for bringing it up and the compliment... take care
     

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