HERBIE 510 Stainless Steel Mesh Vaporizer

Vape Engineering

Manufacturer
Manufacturer
@VaporWare if there is an air flow, the mesh won't glow, since the air absorbes most of the heat.

https://www.instagram.com/p/ByyAkDpDSEH/

This might help understanding

@Vape Engineering do you have a targeted price point already?

Our targeted price will be sub 150 for the basic version. we'll try to go as low as possible, since a 3 digit price tag will scare off potential customers.

be careful, Markus has a patent on hybrid heating. Seriously. A patent on hybrid heating. :shrug:

Then almost every vaporizer out there should violate their patent...I mean getting a patent for a special configuration of a system setup is fine, but restricting the technique in general should not be possible.

Best thing might be to call my aunt, since she's a patent layer. Hope she what to do and how far this restriction is.
 
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bossman

Gentleman Of Leisure
Cool looking product. The place where you sound the most out of touch is when you conflate beta testers with reviewers with social media reach. You'll do better to think of them as two different things. This is especially true for 510 devices because the best reviewers don't have as much experience with 510 vapes as the folks on the Splinter, Imp, or Stempod threads here. Consider identifying experienced 510 vape users here on FC and then send your Herbies to Troy, Pete, Bud etc. once you're mostly dialed in.

You'll probably need options to lengthen and cool the air path. Cooling stems are all the rage nowadays.

Also, my preference is not to use "he" to describe the device. It's just my opinion but I think it sounds corny since we're talking about a vaporizer and not a talking children's toy.

Finally, we say material and not substrate when referring to weed.

Good luck and thanks for the hard work!
 

Vaporware

Well-Known Member
@VaporWare if there is an air flow, the mesh won't glow, since the air absorbes most of the heat.

https://www.instagram.com/p/ByyAkDpDSEH/

This might help understanding



Our targeted price will be sub 150 for the basic version. we'll try to go as low as possible, since a 3 digit price tag will scare off potential customers.



Then almost every vaporizer out there should violate their patent...I mean getting a patent for a special configuration of a system setup is fine, but restricting the technique in general should not be possible.

Best thing might be to call my aunt, since she's a patent layer. Hope she what to do and how far this restriction is.

Thanks, of course you can make any thin mesh heater glow if you pump enough heat into it without airflow; I’m just glad it’s not getting so hot that it would still glow even with continuous airflow since I prefer to never have heaters glow. :)
 

ChooChooCharlie

Well-Known Member
... Best thing might be to call my aunt, since she's a patent layer. Hope she what to do and how far this restriction is.
Don't worry about infringement suits, only worth it to them if their bottom line is affected

Here's a link to the patent. Title: Vaporizer with combined air and radiation heating
https://patents.google.com/patent/US9272103B2/en

Never uses the somewhat new term "hybrid heating," instead it's called "combined air & radiation." Patent issued in EU, 2011 with Plenty release. US version of patent granted 2016. Fun read. He cleverly widened the scope, extending patent coverage over alternate vape designs, even wire based heaters. Fun to read the prior patents cited, and who cites this patent

He uses the term conduction to describe heat transfer from heater block to chamber ring, but radiation to describe how the hot steel chamber walls bring load up to vaping temp. The idea is to avoid uneven heating and the required long inhale of hot air in convection only designs,

Because of his choice of terms, it would be fun to watch a cage fight between Markus and @OF . Thermodynamics textbooks at 10 paces. @Stu might try to referee the battle, offering thermocouple tests and data. However this would only enrage them both. Markus threatening to revoke the warranty and @OF dismissing the data, citing faulty readings
 

Alex3oe

Accessory Maker
What does this "citing" here mean?

Only knowing it from scientific papers.
 
Alex3oe,

Sativapo

Well-Known Member
I am not a scientist but I think conduction implies contact whether radiation doesn't. From what I read it's not " a patent on hybrid heating" but a patent on a specific mechanism which uses one of the many possible hybrid heating combinations. So our friends shouldn't stress as their device doesn't have much to do with the Volcano devices.
One benefit of this full metal design seems to be the possibility to iso soak the whole device.
I'll definitely want one, especially if the price is 2 digits. But 25 mm seems a lot better than 28 for mod compatibility and stealthiness.
 
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KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
Because of his choice of terms, it would be fun to watch a cage fight between Markus and @OF . Thermodynamics textbooks at 10 paces. @Stu might try to referee the battle, offering thermocouple tests and data. However this would only enrage them both. Markus threatening to revoke the warranty and @OF dismissing the data, citing faulty readings

Ha! You made my day! :rofl:

:lmao:
 

ChooChooCharlie

Well-Known Member
What does this "citing" here mean?
Only knowing it from scientific papers.

@Alex3oe - search "patent citations" - required of applicants on the American side of the pond

After selling to Canopy, Markus cranked up the Pointer Sisters

Markus-citations.jpg

Apologies for the derail, @Vape Engineering , but at least we bumped your thread :)
 
ChooChooCharlie,

Vape Engineering

Manufacturer
Manufacturer
Apologies for the derail, @Vape Engineering , but at least we bumped your thread

Actually we find it great, if there are advanced technical discussions in our thread. That shows me, we came to the perfect place ;-)

During the weekend Nils (the thermodynamical mastermind) wrote a few lines to explain our idea behind the air guide. I hope my translation doesn't have too many mistakes.

JFzSdRX
Airflow-HERBIE-1024x508.png


The convection principle of HERBIE:
The cold air is aspirated through the outer housing and hits the inner housing (lower blue arrow).
From there, the air streams downwards between the housings (orange arrow). The air absorbs heat from the outer housing meanwhile. This has two advantages: Firstly, the air is preheated by the outer shell. Secondly, which is clearly the larger advantage, the air absorbs the heat of the housing. This in turn has the effect that the housing is actively cooled.
Now the preheated air reaches the inside of the Herbie (second orange arrow) and hits the glowing mesh (red arrow). From there it streams through the herb chamber (second red arrow), which has a bottom and a top mesh to keep the material in place.
Now the secondary air guide comes into play. At the same time fresh cold air is forced into the upper area (upper blue arrows) by underpressure.
The “secondary air” mixes with the warm vape and the result is a pleasant temperature and a non-itching vaping experience.

The conduction principle of Herbie:
The glowing mesh emits radiant energy. This energy is absorbed by the shell, which then heats up. Due to the low thermal conduction coefficient of metal, the herb chamber heats up very quickly. The ingredients are dissolved from the herbs by the warm walls of the chamber.

The two-chamber principle:
Because there is air between the shell and the housing and air is known to be a very good thermal insulator, the outer housing is protected from the hot air and does not heat up so much. In addition, the radiant energy is already absorbed by the shell. As a result, this energy does not hit the housing and is not heated by the radiation.
As mentioned above, metal is a good thermal conductor. Unfortunately, the temperature of the shell is not only directed to where it is needed to be (herb chamber), but also towards the base. This detail is also considered by us. In the lower part of the heating chamber, the air duct (second orange arrow) allows a seperation (first orange arrow) between the shell and the base. That again has three advantages:
Advantage 1: The bowl only touches the base in very small areas, which almost prevents heat conduction into the base.
Advantage 2: Because the air flows along the base, the principle of forced convection also works there. This is how the base is cooled.
Advantage 3: The functional design of the edges (CFD calculated) of the air duct (second orange arrow) creates 8 standing vortices in the inner chamber (two per air duct). The increased turbulent kinetic energy of the air absorbs the energy of the mesh more efficiently than a laminar flow. This way it heats up much faster, which in turn increases the battery life.

If you look at competing 510 vaporizers, you can see that we completely dispense with a heat sink in the direction of Mod. This is because our concept is so well thought out that a large part of the energy is absorbed by the air.
Other 510 vaporizers have the base as the only metal part. Since glass and wood are very difficult to absorb energy, a large part of the energy is absorbed by the base. Since it is made of metal, it conducts the heat directly into the battery mod, which can cause damage if used without heat sink.
Glass also has the disadvantage that it is very sensitive to shocks. If the battery mod with one of the other 510 vaporizers falls out of your hand, the inner glass usually breaks and you are forced to buy a new one. Since Herbie is completely made of stainless steel, he has at most a slight scratch.


The place where you sound the most out of touch is when you conflate beta testers with reviewers with social media reach.

You're absolutly right. Our main focus was to develop a good product in the first place. We're already in tough with a few testers, but this forum seems to be a very good place to get some professional reviews.
We're waiting for the air contol parts atm, but as soon as they are here, we could send out the first pieces for beta testing.
Are there members with a wide reach in social media or YT?
Unfortunetely the prototypes are not cheap at all, so we're not able to provide everybody a piece for testing. We're working on a plan, but money still doesn't grow on trees....

So long - Til
 
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Sativapo

Well-Known Member
Another argument for also having a 25 mm version except mod aesthetical compatibility and stealthiness is micro dosing. As If it's proportional the chamber would be smaller. And micro dosing has a lot of fans.
 
Sativapo,

ChooChooCharlie

Well-Known Member
@Vape Engineering , yes, you have come to the right place for opinions on vape tech. Educated opinions, and also opinions from schmucks like me

You did a fine job with the translation, a couple errors, but so much better than my attempts at Deutsch, even after attending four years of "instruction." I butcher my native tongue as well, and overspend my alliteration allocation, allegedly

Refreshing to read about turbulence and your implementation of counterflow heat transfer. Usually, too much design focus on heating tech or configuration, not enough attention on air flow. The insulating air gap between the concentric cylinders of the casing sounds sweetly serendipitous, being part of the counterflow heat transfer while also addressing tactile ergonomics. Sure, some marketing in there, but the Good Witch of the North sort of educational marketing

Forum rules here prohibit users from requesting to be part of a beta test. But, I'd advise you contact Troy at 420vapezone, FC username @ohmygodimsohigh. And perhaps ask @Stu via private message for an advisable strategy. One that would be beneficial to you and readers here, and future customers :)

And, FC can be tribalistic, so care must be taken when discussing other 510 vape designs competing in the same space
 

TheThriftDrifter

Land of the long vapor cloud
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Brewervapesalot

Well-Known Member
I actually don't like the name Herbie for the Herbalizer. But that machine is such a beast people can call it Mary Miss Muffet for all i care and I'll still be proud to own it and use it. Point is, I think above, that the name has been taken so come up with something original???....
 

Sativapo

Well-Known Member
Is there already a herbie? Because otherwise I think it's unfair the herbalizer takes all the the names with herb. Otherwise the first using it could block all the names with vape in it.
 

Vape Engineering

Manufacturer
Manufacturer
Hi folks, sorry to let you all wait, but I had to take a few days off. Went to a electronic music festival in Poland. Only downside: no electricity --> couldn't use HERBIE for half the time. Definetily will bring a generator next time.

@Daprezz 25mm is asked a lot. Our main goal is to achieve a proper working 510 vapo. Reducing the size will result in much more heat in the housing. The negative thermal effects might reult in burnt material or that a heat spreader must be used. Nevertheless we're trying to figure a way out to make it happen.
In the meantime we'll try to launch the 28mm.


Forum rules here prohibit users from requesting to be part of a beta test
I've read the rules, but didn't remember that. Thanks for the info! Testing will be very important in the close future. The final design will be finished soon and the first testers will receive their products. Unfortunately each prototype is quite expencive, which forces us to limit the amount of testers.
I'm building a form on our website to apply as a tester, so almost everybody can get their hands on one ;-)

so care must be taken when discussing other 510 vape designs competing in the same space
I'm aware of that. Pointing out the differences is ok, but no negative words should be spoken. I don't even have a reason to. Every manufacturer had a slightly different vision of their product, which is good for you to pick the best vapo for your needs and habbits.

I'd advise you contact Troy
Thanks to your hint, we got in touch with him. He's very interested and we're looking forward to his feedback!


Seems like our name picking wasn't the greatest. Either Vape Engineering or HERBIE or sometimes both seems to trigger people in a way...
None of us has real marketing skills nor experience in advertising. Therefore we picked the first names that came to our mind, which we thought fit the best. As @Brewervapesalot said:
people can call it Mary Miss Muffet for all i care and I'll still be proud to own it and use it.
We want to offer you a high quality vaporizer, not a fancy lifestyle vapo with a brilliant name.

I'll keep you up to date, when something new comes up (e.g.: milling the updated air control).

Have a great day.

Til
 

Sativapo

Well-Known Member
What are the dimensions of the chamber ? In another vape I have a 14x8 mm chamber and it needs 0.15-0.2 g to work optimally. From the pics it looks bigger than this. With more than 0.2 we get in macro dosing territory which is not my territory.
 

Vape Engineering

Manufacturer
Manufacturer
What are the dimensions of the chamber ? In another vape I have a 14x8 mm chamber and it needs 0.15-0.2 g to work optimally. From the pics it looks bigger than this.

The dimensions are 17x12mm. The amount also depends, if you pack the chamber with "fluffy" material, or if you push it down a little to fit more inside. I'll check it this evening.

Is the actual amount really that important? I prefer quite strong material and only fill the chamber 2/3 sometimes. This was never an issue - did I overlook this topic?

Please let me know.


Thanks

Til
 
Vape Engineering,

Sativapo

Well-Known Member
I only talk from my personal taste and experience as I am not so rich and don't find always easily good flower where I live so I like to make it last. For those who have more flower available it's less of a problem. From my experience you need indeed at least 2/3 fulness of a chamber to be effective. (maybe your's is different?) And with 17x12 that could be more than 0.2. This won't be a problem for some users here but will definitely be for some others from what I read. Idk, what others think ?
 

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Hi folks, sorry to let you all wait, but I had to take a few days off. Went to a electronic music festival in Poland. Only downside: no electricity --> couldn't use HERBIE for half the time. Definetily will bring a generator next time.

@Daprezz 25mm is asked a lot. Our main goal is to achieve a proper working 510 vapo. Reducing the size will result in much more heat in the housing. The negative thermal effects might reult in burnt material or that a heat spreader must be used. Nevertheless we're trying to figure a way out to make it happen.
In the meantime we'll try to launch the 28mm.



I've read the rules, but didn't remember that. Thanks for the info! Testing will be very important in the close future. The final design will be finished soon and the first testers will receive their products. Unfortunately each prototype is quite expencive, which forces us to limit the amount of testers.
I'm building a form on our website to apply as a tester, so almost everybody can get their hands on one ;-)


I'm aware of that. Pointing out the differences is ok, but no negative words should be spoken. I don't even have a reason to. Every manufacturer had a slightly different vision of their product, which is good for you to pick the best vapo for your needs and habbits.

Thanks to your hint, we got in touch with him. He's very interested and we're looking forward to his feedback!


Seems like our name picking wasn't the greatest. Either Vape Engineering or HERBIE or sometimes both seems to trigger people in a way...
None of us has real marketing skills nor experience in advertising. Therefore we picked the first names that came to our mind, which we thought fit the best. As @Brewervapesalot said:

We want to offer you a high quality vaporizer, not a fancy lifestyle vapo with a brilliant name.

I'll keep you up to date, when something new comes up (e.g.: milling the updated air control).

Have a great day.

Til

I still like the name VapEngine...

Also FC members are free to message manufacturers privately to request beta testing btw, they just cannot ask within the thread (here) is all.

Pay to play beta testing is common too, have them pre order or buy a cheaper product (typically allowing upgrade to new version when complete)bin exchange for providing beta test feedback here or privately.
 

Obsessed 2

Well-Known Member
Sticking with thermodynamics, I like the name theme surrounding the early physicists of thermodynamics. For example, Joule, Kelvin, Carnot... could be the theme to build out your product line. Just my 2 pennies. My nerdy 2 pennies, but 2 pennies nonetheless.
 
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