Flavor advice - dab technique, gear

[herbivore21]

Difference in sapphire or SIC? e-nails are cumbersome for me

Hmmm if you can't do e-nails then you have no sapphire options (can't torch sapphire, it doesn't take well to the thermal shock and is likely to break). SiC is much better for vaporizing more quickly and evenly than quartz with better flavor throughout the hit. SiC holds heat like nothing else! No need to waste to taste. I use SiC if I am limited to torch only dabs. I have never gone back to quartz since I got SiC.

Sapphire takes slightly longer to vaporize the same load as SiC, but actually tastes better still throughout the hit - despite requiring slightly more heat than SiC to function ideally. If you can do an e-nail, sapphire is the unequivocal best experience IME.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

They don't get the heat through the dish consistently enough (bumping and uneven boiling means that some of the vapor tastes much worse than other parts of the vapor from the same dab).

Does the Liger mentioned above provide more consistent heating of its inserts than a typical flat or barrel coil heater?

Is it worthwhile to get a sapphire insert for the SiC HALO? Don't know how these inserts work.

 

[scalescliffs]

Difference in sapphire or SIC? e-nails are cumbersome for me

I'm a newbie but sapphire is like, the purest tasting but it's also very fragile and sensitive to thermal shock. Silicon Carbide (SiC) is like, the next best thing but it's tough as nails (like, pretty unbreakable) and not at all sensitive to thermal shock.

edit to add: I wrote this on an old tab and didn't see the response from @herbivore21 - and now I can't erase it. My bad.

 

[herbivore21]

Does the Liger mentioned above provide more consistent heating of its inserts than a typical flat or barrel coil heater?

Is it worthwhile to get a sapphire insert for the SiC HALO? Don't know how these inserts work.

IME the d-nail sapphire insert is only useful as a conductive surface (as used with the d-nail v1 flat and v1.4 titanium nails). When used with the halos, it is a convective platform and you have to spread the load just so and not too much or your material will glob over onto the SiC (which needs to be far too hot if you wanna get enough heat into the sapphire insert).

I love the v1 flat titanium dish with v1 sapphire insert though, a great cheap way to taste sapphire dabs! Just don't dab too big so that your dabs don't overflow onto the titanium and taste bad

To your first question - no. The Liger does not get the heat into the sapphire or SiC better than a flat coil in direct contact with the sapphire/SiC (how I use my d-nail halos). The halos are unequivocally quicker to vaporize your dab than the Ligers. This makes sense of course, you're heating a giant titanium bucket which has an insert sitting inside of it with the Liger - with the d-nail you've got the sapphire or SiC sitting directly on top of the heater. The d-nail sapphire also has capillaries grown into the surface which spread your dab more evenly, the carb cap design is much better for moving your dab around the dish.

Oil pools to the edges of the dish on the Liger sapphire (due to the polished surface not spreading the dab evenly as with the d-nail halo) and this can lead to even slower vaporization than usual (which is already slow) and terrible tasting later hits because the load takes far too long to fully cook off. I only use the Liger for full melt, which doesn't pool so much as the non melting components of the glands seems to make the oily part stay put.

The D-nail SiC vaporizes more quickly than the Liger SiC, but pooling is much less of an issue since vaporization is quicker with SiC vs Sapphire no matter the brand. The D-nail SiC is the only one that should be used with a torch IMO - it makes no sense to torch a titanium bucket and ruin the anodized finished when the d-nail allows you to directly torch the silicone carbide part!

Hope this helps to give an in depth comparison

I should highlight that the Liger will definitely outperform traditional quartz bangers with a barrel coil - which are fucking terrible for heat distribution (requiring waste to taste) and IMO should have been abandoned long ago. I would recommend the Liger over almost all barrel coil enails, but I recommend the d-nail halos over the Liger almost universally. They're considerably cheaper and vaporize quicker with the same flavor, and that's before we get to the delays and QC issues with the ligers.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

Hope this helps to give an in depth comparison

This has all been very helpful, thanks. It seems that nothing more is required for near maximum flavor.

What about technique? Watched some videos, but never dabbed with anyone more experienced. Typically hold a tiny bit of DIY QWET concentrate (impaled on fork) over SiC HALO (now at 450F) until it liquefies and drips. While inhaling, move nail around trying to get even distribution, but usually concentrate just runs around corner leaving residue. Pop on carb cap and inhale until no vapor left.

At session's end, turn heat up to 850F for 30mins to burn residue. (At next session's start, wipe off with ISO swab.

Any tips for improvement?

 

[scalescliffs]

This has all been very helpful, thanks. It seems that nothing more is required for near maximum flavor.

What about technique? Watched some videos, but never dabbed with anyone more experienced. Typically hold a tiny bit of DIY QWET concentrate (impaled on fork) over SiC HALO (now at 450F) until it liquefies and drips. While inhaling, move nail around trying to get even distribution, but usually concentrate just runs around corner leaving residue. Pop on carb cap and inhale until no vapor left.

At session's end, turn heat up to 850F for 30mins to burn residue. (At next session's start, wipe off with ISO swab.

Any tips for improvement?

I am a newb too, but I believe if you get something like the ChadBro Terp Trunk cap or something with adjustable/directional airflow, you can prevent the concentrate from pooling so much.

You can clean your nail at like 200F with iso and water too, to scrub anything gross off that isn't burning off.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

Using D-Nail's universal carb cab, which has directional airflow and seems to work very well. It's pictured above.

Smelled some lovely terpenes while waiting for the shatter to liquefy and drip. Seems much better to jam the chip right into the SiC nail at 450F and drag it around with the fork dabber. Tasty and so satisfying.

 

[ataxian]

Difference in sapphire or SIC? e-nails are cumbersome for me

Hey @HippieHitman I'm used to a TORCH?
Everyday I use my MOD with success.

1 gram KIEF + EJUICE 4 grams (fill tank)

I take little DABs of SHATTER when the COILS become red hot.

The EJUICE keeps the COIL cool.
The SHATTER MEDICATES beyond belief.

The KIEF gets in your bloodsteam as well!

It's my take?

I'm a LOW INCOME SACK however CANNABIS =
CIVILIZED

 

[herbivore21]

This has all been very helpful, thanks. It seems that nothing more is required for near maximum flavor.

What about technique? Watched some videos, but never dabbed with anyone more experienced. Typically hold a tiny bit of DIY QWET concentrate (impaled on fork) over SiC HALO (now at 450F) until it liquefies and drips. While inhaling, move nail around trying to get even distribution, but usually concentrate just runs around corner leaving residue. Pop on carb cap and inhale until no vapor left.

At session's end, turn heat up to 850F for 30mins to burn residue. (At next session's start, wipe off with ISO swab.

Any tips for improvement?

Nope, that is a good technique my friend! Moving your dab around the dish should be mandatory learning for all dabbers, as this will make your dab vape more quickly and taste better - NO MATTER WHAT NAIL YOU USE.

As to my torch friends @ataxian and @HippieHitman - unlike many who are 'off the torch', I fully understand that some will need to stick to torch dabbing due to some limitations of enail setups with some rigs/usage situations. My SiC halo is my go-to torch nail. I've owned pukinbeagle quartz bangers, I've owned every kind of quartz nail you can imagine. Plenty of titanium too. All of them gathered dust after I got a SiC halo. SiC conducts and retains heat much more effectively than quartz. It achieves much tastier dabs that vaporize more quickly and efficiently, requiring very little care to be taken during use/cleaning due to much greater durability than quartz. You can torch this thing until your blowtorch runs out of gas and it will not get damaged - cleaning doesn't get easier than that!

Sapphire is not usable with a torch. If you don't wanna do e-nails, it is out of the question.

If you are on the torch, SiC is the be-all, end-all solution IMO and IME. Your nail will last a lifetime with absolutely minimal care. Ataxian, I believe that SiC should even be durable enough for your medical needs

 

[anasrzi]

Think I'm going to have to take the plunge at get some SiC in my life after hearing such ringing endorsements. I've only just got into dabbing literally the past few weeks I've started to press my own bubble hash rosin and dab via a cheap China Quartz banger for the mean time, wanted to be sure I firstly enjoyed dabbing in general (I own a supreme which for those in the know is like dabbing flowers, super powerful, super thick just super in general) which I do indeed.

Secondly I wanted to keep my costs down, no point buying this and that for £££ and it never gets used. So all in all that's why I favoured the Quartz bangers.

Now I'm becoming a bit more accustom to the whole dabbing game, still a newbie of course I want to focus on flavour so I'm assuming SiC is the way to go? Don't have a enail setup just a torch and won't be getting one at all, no a fan of wires hence the supreme V3 is my cordless go-to home unit but it struggles with resins and oils because it cakes up the load and you can't get much air to pass thru, again a reason to have a dedicated nail/bucket/banger for cons.

Thing I'm not fond of regarding torch dabbing is it can be very hit and miss, I use a timer to try and refine my hits but as @herbivore21 has stated with Quartz you waste to taste at least to some extent.

I'm thinking if I go to a SiC dish I could dial in my dabs more with a infra red thermometer as the SiC dish isn't clear like the Quartz so I can really fine tune my temps even with a torch??? Any thoughts on that? Adding to this it's much tougher material, better tasting dabs it all adds up to a logical choice .

Another perhaps daft newbie Q is this, does it matter at all what carb cap is used, either materials used as in Ti or design?

All comments welcome

 

[ataxian]

Nope, that is a good technique my friend! Moving your dab around the dish should be mandatory learning for all dabbers, as this will make your dab vape more quickly and taste better - NO MATTER WHAT NAIL YOU USE.

As to my torch friends @ataxian and @HippieHitman - unlike many who are 'off the torch', I fully understand that some will need to stick to torch dabbing due to some limitations of enail setups with some rigs/usage situations. My SiC halo is my go-to torch nail. I've owned pukinbeagle quartz bangers, I've owned every kind of quartz nail you can imagine. Plenty of titanium too. All of them gathered dust after I got a SiC halo. SiC conducts and retains heat much more effectively than quartz. It achieves much tastier dabs that vaporize more quickly and efficiently, requiring very little care to be taken during use/cleaning due to much greater durability than quartz. You can torch this thing until your blowtorch runs out of gas and it will not get damaged - cleaning doesn't get easier than that!

Sapphire is not usable with a torch. If you don't wanna do e-nails, it is out of the question.

If you are on the torch, SiC is the be-all, end-all solution IMO and IME. Your nail will last a lifetime with absolutely minimal care. Ataxian, I believe that SiC should even be durable enough for your medical needs

I have never seen a SIC?

Back in the day we had ALUMINUM FOIL and a FAST FOOD STRAW and STICK MATCH for CONCENTRATES imported from the MIDDLE EAST or NORTH AFRICA.

CALIFORNIA we threw away the sugar leaves.
HAWAII only COLAS! (NO SEEDS)

I need to try a SIC. (SOUNDS = CIVILIZED)

I guess maybe I'm UNCIVILIZED?
@Accept my TORCH was $8.00? (it works?)

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

does it matter at all what carb cap is used, either materials used as in Ti or design?

Having tried two, carb caps seem to matter. Purchased the HIVE ceramic cap first when D-Nail's was unavailable. Used with quartz HALO. Works reasonably well. One plus is that it remains cool in use.

On purchasing the SiC HALO, upgraded to D-Nail's universal carb cap. This works much better, producing a thicker cloud instantaneously. Guessing that it has to do with the tight fit and directional air-flow. It heats up more quickly, but it's easy to get used to. Also love the fork dabber.

The SiC HALO is actually cheaper than the quartz version. Even if you have something else, the SiC will come in handy if (when) that breaks. (If you drop the Sic, it's more likely to chip your floor than break.)

I have never seen a SIC?

Back in the day we had ALUMINUM FOIL and a FAST FOOD STRAW and STICK MATCH for CONCENTRATES imported from the MIDDLE EAST or NORTH AFRICA.

Sounds like SiC is a high-tech, industrial ceramic. Like what kept the space shuttle cool on re-entry. Could be wrong, but it's still a pretty picture.

@ataxian, New member @1937earthmodel was just describing these methods in another thread. You might know each other.

I guess maybe I'm UNCIVILIZED?
@Accept my TORCH was $8.00? (it works?)

Evidently not. (Do you mean "HYBRID"?) Maybe visit next time in Cali, please?

 

[herbivore21]

I have never seen a SIC?

Back in the day we had ALUMINUM FOIL and a FAST FOOD STRAW and STICK MATCH for CONCENTRATES imported from the MIDDLE EAST or NORTH AFRICA.

CALIFORNIA we threw away the sugar leaves.
HAWAII only COLAS! (NO SEEDS)

I need to try a SIC. (SOUNDS = CIVILIZED)

I guess maybe I'm UNCIVILIZED?
@Accept my TORCH was $8.00? (it works?)

SiC aka Silicone Carbide is an aerospace ceramic compound adored for its high heat resistance and particularly favorable thermal properties as a nail. A SiC nail is just like the nail you have on your rig now, but it is a grey-black ceramic dish instead of titanium.

Dabs on SiC taste much better than dabs on titanium or quartz. SiC is very durable, unlike traditionally made ceramics and would stand up to your needs (I know that glass and quartz are not helpful for you because they break). You can torch it as long as you like with your blowtorch pictured without ever damaging it, this makes it very easy to clean! Titanium oxidizes as it is repeatedly blowtorched and this changes the thermal properties of the nail over time, diminishing function. Quartz nails get fogged up and nasty over time from successive torching too. SiC overcomes this major limitation and so it is a nail that should generally last the user a lifetime.

SiC is also the best material (apart from sapphire which costs a whole lot more) to use with an e-nail. I don't think you use one of these? No matter, you can have wonderful dabs with a torch and SiC nail. One more thing I should mention. Not only will your dabs taste much better on SiC, but they will also vaporize more quickly and efficiently than titanium!

This means that you more efficiently get all of your vapor into your lungs, rather than having some of your dab pool up and not completely vaporize as the nail cools while you inhale. I found that my usage drastically decreased when I got SiC and Sapphire nails, simply because I was making more efficient use of my meds and didn't require so many dabs.

It is definitely as you suspect brother - CIVILIZED!

Don't worry my friend, I like you used to do the aluminum foil technique, we used hollowed out bic pens instead of fast food straws sometimes though - now that is CIVILIZED!

Concentrates have come such a long way haven't they my friend?

 

[anasrzi]

What temps are you guys using for your SiC from a standard enail setup for the best flavour? I won't be using a enail just a torch but with a infra red thermometer I can or could attain similar results. Does anyone else use a infra red thermometer to check the temps?

 

[herbivore21]

What temps are you guys using for your SiC from a standard enail setup for the best flavour? I won't be using a enail just a torch but with a infra red thermometer I can or could attain similar results. Does anyone else use a infra red thermometer to check the temps?

One thing you need to consider is that the temp we get from our heater coils is absolutely not the temp that we would measure from the dish. Anything polished and smooth/reflective or refractive of light is not necessarily going to be accurately measured by IR thermometers and high temp resistant K type thermocouples are definitely preferable for accurate measurements.

I encourage you to check out D-nails charts on the ideal dish temps for their SiC halo however, as this will work much better as a guide for your needs

The following chart shows temps measured during a 70 second torching of a SiC halo from the bottom/side of the dish. The time elapsed and temp measured since initial heating are reflected in the chart.

The following chart provides the same information, but instead includes a second torching and cool down cycle for those who want to dab out their friends too

Finally, this chart will help you to get an estimate of the actual dish temp on a SiC halo vs the temp measured by the d-nail flat coil that heats it. Remember though, different coils of different age and different controllers will behave differently and so this chart is really only useful as a general guide in a lot of situations.

 

[ataxian]

One thing you need to consider is that the temp we get from our heater coils is absolutely not the temp that we would measure from the dish. Anything polished and smooth/reflective or refractive of light is not necessarily going to be accurately measured by IR thermometers and high temp resistant K type thermocouples are definitely preferable for accurate measurements.

I encourage you to check out D-nails charts on the ideal dish temps for their SiC halo however, as this will work much better as a guide for your needs

The following chart shows temps measured during a 70 second torching of a SiC halo from the bottom/side of the dish. The time elapsed and temp measured since initial heating are reflected in the chart.

The following chart provides the same information, but instead includes a second torching and cool down cycle for those who want to dab out their friends too

Finally, this chart will help you to get an estimate of the actual dish temp on a SiC halo vs the temp measured by the d-nail flat coil that heats it. Remember though, different coils of different age and different controllers will behave differently and so this chart is really only useful as a general guide in a lot of situations.

@herbivore21 I have lots of CANNABIS with old devices.

Today I got a GOON ATTY for my MOD.
I built it with TIGER COILS at -4.5 KIEF EJUICE x
SHATTER on COIL'S = ME LIKE (poorman's way)

ORGANIC COTTON for wicking.
EJUICE = 0 NIC + 3 grams KIEF. 5 grams fruit flavors covered in chocolate mint. (my liking)
1/2 long grain rice size dabs. (TANGIE SHATTER)


I want to try a SIC one day?
For now it's working? (cheapo)

It's cheap and my wife likes the savings!

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

EJUICE = 0 NIC + 3 grams KIEF.

Doesn't the kief gunk up the coils? Love the SiC. Worth it already. It's cheaper than quartz.

Finally got an an auber digital controller. Had D-Nail analog controller, which costs more. Temp readings are much higher with the auber. 450F on the auber produces almost no vapor, but it's perfect on the D-Nail. Manual mentions that it's programmed for auber's hot runner coil. Must try Stabilized Uptemp Procedure.

Can't wait to try it with silicone heat mat evaporating QWET.

 

[Eatrocks]

Im trying out my new wax atty, the pulsar Barb fire. Single Twisted coil around a quartz rod. Not as much airflow as I expected but almost the same as a rig, flavor is lacking something...Prob jus cause it's an all metal housing not tasty glass. It delivers a big hit VERY quickly without killing my lungs....The yocan dual quartz hit way too hot.

I suggest to stay away from all ceramic builds, quartz comes the closest to a nail flavor.

Ultimately I wanna hook this atty up to my rig wit some tubing, the smell from torching up a dirty nail several times a day is pissing off my gf.

 

[throwawaytre3s]

Heartbraking. Head shop suggested heater wrapped directly around a quartz banger. Ghetto Liger? Any experience with Halo inserts? Might be up for a sapphire insert. What's your travel e-nail setup? Use e-juice on the go, but dabbing gets tolerance too high.

Maybe found a sweet-spot around 450F (analog controller). Better flavor and effects. Memorable hits. Hotter seems to flatten out again. Looking for that terpene sinus rush.

The new reclaimer. Collected a perfect drop of pristine red reclaim from a broken bushing. Haven't caught anything yet with this contraption.

In my experience those types of reclaim catches just don't work as well as something like this:

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

Thanks for the tip! Still using this thing - looks cool and it's a little easier. The reclaimer above looks like it would add too much height.

Using a version of the procedure above. After first big hit, crank up the temp and hit again while the temp is rising.