Erig vs enail, im so confused.

[Enialis]

Probably a Peak.

I get better uptemps with a torch than my enail. Sometimes I enjoy an enail uptemp but I think the banger is too thick to do it all the time because it responds a bit slow.

You can do an uptemp with the JCAT controller directly out of the banger without an insert, you might try that.

But it sounds like you may just prefer an e-rig.

Have you used a hybrid nail or one of the titanium bangers like the old liger or tbucket to compare? Are most of the things I'm talking about specific to just quartz bangers rather than enails as a whole?

I'm beginning to wonder if a metal/hybrid nail with the proper insert or cup would be better for me but when I was buying everyone online here and otherwise talked me into the deep dish because I was specifically asking about coldstart/uptemps with small doses and I was told the deep dish setup would be perfect and not to even look into hybrids.

I'm hoping at the very least even if I don't prefer it to an erig that I would be able to use it for higher dosages but I still haven't figured out why 0.1g dabs are getting me less medicated than 0.02g out of my erig.

I stocked up again on concentrates incase anyone has any advice how to get more mileage out of this current setup. I'll eventually get a peak anyways but I was really hoping I could find a desktop, plug in device that would essentially do the same thing but with larger amounts to go with it.

 

[arb]

Have you used a hybrid nail or one of the titanium bangers like the old liger or tbucket to compare? Are most of the things I'm talking about specific to just quartz bangers rather than enails as a whole?

I'm beginning to wonder if a metal/hybrid nail with the proper insert or cup would be better for me but when I was buying everyone online here and otherwise talked me into the deep dish because I was specifically asking about coldstart/uptemps with small doses and I was told the deep dish setup would be perfect and not to even look into hybrids.

I'm hoping at the very least even if I don't prefer it to an erig that I would be able to use it for higher dosages but I still haven't figured out why 0.1g dabs are getting me less medicated than 0.02g out of my erig.

I stocked up again on concentrates incase anyone has any advice how to get more mileage out of this current setup. I'll eventually get a peak anyways but I was really hoping I could find a desktop, plug in device that would essentially do the same thing but with larger amounts to go with it.

This is a dabuddha with the quartz\glass eok kit.
Wide,deep,safe,consistent and may Solve the flower vape search also.
Definitely a heavy hitter with both and can be used dry with a whip or ran through water.

 

[invertedisdead]

Have you used a hybrid nail or one of the titanium bangers like the old liger or tbucket to compare? Are most of the things I'm talking about specific to just quartz bangers rather than enails as a whole?

I'm beginning to wonder if a metal/hybrid nail with the proper insert or cup would be better for me but when I was buying everyone online here and otherwise talked me into the deep dish because I was specifically asking about coldstart/uptemps with small doses and I was told the deep dish setup would be perfect and not to even look into hybrids.

I'm hoping at the very least even if I don't prefer it to an erig that I would be able to use it for higher dosages but I still haven't figured out why 0.1g dabs are getting me less medicated than 0.02g out of my erig.

I stocked up again on concentrates incase anyone has any advice how to get more mileage out of this current setup. I'll eventually get a peak anyways but I was really hoping I could find a desktop, plug in device that would essentially do the same thing but with larger amounts to go with it.

If I was gonna buy an enail for uptemps I’d probablt get a SiC Halo by D-Nail (I think the revised ones are called Nimbus now)

I don’t have one anymore as I’m a glass/quartz/sapphire Puritan these days, but IMO that’s what you want for uptemps, D-nail used to literally have a guide on uptemps way before it became a popular thing.

Have you tried doing uptemps directly from your enail controller? From the banger, with no insert? I like to start at 300-350 and ramp up from there using my MaxVapor controller.

As far as getting higher off the e-rig: I’m assuming you’re hitting a higher temp on the e-rig due to the greatly reduced surface area of the heater. Maybe the enail hits are so smooth you don’t even notice them? Holding the vapor in longer will increase the absorption. Also the glass piece on the e rig is much smaller, it’s possible you’re losing to condensation.

 

[Enialis]

If I was gonna buy an enail for uptemps I’d probablt get a SiC Halo by D-Nail (I think the revised ones are called Nimbus now)

I don’t have one anymore as I’m a glass/quartz/sapphire Puritan these days, but IMO that’s what you want for uptemps, D-nail used to literally have a guide on uptemps way before it became a popular thing.

Have you tried doing uptemps directly from your enail controller? From the banger, with no insert? I like to start at 300-350 and ramp up from there using my MaxVapor controller.

As far as getting higher off the e-rig: I’m assuming you’re hitting a higher temp on the e-rig due to the greatly reduced surface area of the heater. Maybe the enail hits are so smooth you don’t even notice them? Holding the vapor in longer will increase the absorption. Also the glass piece on the e rig is much smaller, it’s possible you’re losing to condensation.

I'm thinking I should head trusted my gut more when first shopping around, I was planning on getting the dnail sic until getting talked out of it.

I also just want to reiterate that I know I'm being EXTREMELY picky about this and that 99% of people would say that everything is working fine and none of my issues would even be problems I would imagine. If I was only paying $20 per gram instead of $60+ then I wouldn't be this obsessed with efficiency.

I just got back from the dispensary and was going to try to mess around with boost mode on the auber for uptemps tonight since I've only done it manually so far.

And I think your absolutely right about what you said about the erig. The piece I'm using isn't any bigger than my erig but its still over double the volume, and all the carb caps I have available have very open airflow so the hits are very airy.

You pretty much described what I've been trying to get at this whole time. The erig is definitely delivering denser hits because less air is getting mixed into the vapor and the restriction is lowering the pressure more. That's what I've been trying to express when talking about the carb cap not working and the pearls not moving and what I've been trying to find a perfect carb cap to try and replicate on this setup.

 

[Enialis]

This is a dabuddha with the quartz\glass eok kit.
Wide,deep,safe,consistent and may Solve the flower vape search also.
Definitely a heavy hitter with both and can be used dry with a whip or ran through water.

Afaik that would be a lot more like the vapor the cloud evo gets me than a banger if I'm remembering how that guy works, which compared to either electric or torched bangers is preferable to me.

 

[arb]

It is hot quartz same as any other e-nail only difference is its heated from a center core post not the outside.
Pure conduction heat the Evo is convection?

 

[Enialis]

It is hot quartz same as any other e-nail only difference is its heated from a center core post not the outside.
Pure conduction heat the Evo is convection?

The evo is a quartz tube dropped into the convection air path. It heats up because it goes down into the heater core and the quartz is then heated by ambient hot air from the heater which in turn heats up the dab so its kind of a mix of both, but the videos and pictures I've seen of it now make me think it would be very similar to the evo and other such devices for concentrates I've tried.

Thats the type of vapor I was expecting from the enail, I'm not entirely sure why I thought an ebanger was going to be like that instead of just an electric banger literally. I thought it was going to be more like the vapor from electric nails like yours or all of the other things I've tried over the years, especially with inserts.

I'm not sure what my next move should be, I just got a vrod for flower that I haven't tried dabbing on yet, and am already heavily invested in pid controllers so finding something that I can use with the custom enail is kind of the goal at this point, bonus point if I can reuse the two sic inserts I bought.

I guess for pid enails my options are the two products from newvape/cannabis hardware, the dnail, and what else? I was told the tbucket and dcup weren't great for smaller dabs because they were 30mm dishes so how does the dnail do at small dabs?

Am I asking to much from pid controllers? Maxvapor and jcat users all seem to be able to vape like I want from reading but they were all on dnails/hybrids or ti buckets like ligers or tbuckets.

Also fwiw, I used my dtv4 today with the same sic and quartz insert that I use in my enail instead of the default cup plus this carb cap and I was able to get the proper vapor im looking for. It was a bottomless banger setup so I'm just a little confused why the normal banger would be so much different, maybe I'm underestimating how responsive of a nail I want.

 

[WelshBrok]

In the nicest possible way, as I’ve been following your struggle through the 3 or 4 threads and can see how frustrating and difficult it’s been, I think you should stop buying new devices and just spend the money on more concentrate and batteries for your erig, if that’s the only thing that gets you medicated and all the other devices people love and usually recommend don’t work for you.
I don’t know why but I don’t think you’ll be happy with any other device regardless if it’s TI, quartz or gems. Plus if wasting $15 on concentrate testing a new device is an issue, I’d have put the $1000 you’ve spent recently on new devices on concentrate, after all, no matter how good the rig or how close to your ideal use case it is, it’s no good if you can’t afford to dab in it.

 

[guyonthecouch]

From your enail video I'd suggest the following. Plug in enail, set to 550f, let heat soak for 5-10mins, if you want to use your inserts leave in banger while heat soaking(guessing your insert is way too cold with your current loading method). When enail/banger is at set temp, load up your dab on a tool and place it directly on the bottom of the banger/insert. Once fully melted off the tool, put your carb cap on the banger and start drawing. Start there and get the hang of it, then maybe play around with cold starts/temp stepping techniques if you really want(currently you're just wasting your material). But if you want to see the power of an enail vs erig try the above method and report back. This method will also be instant dabs vs sitting around and starring at your insert forever..

Try with a plain banger and carb cap first, no inserts/pearls/balls(these are overkill and not necessary for a "good hit"), should work fine. Once you get the hang of it then introduce the other accessories if you wish.

I don’t know why but I don’t think you’ll be happy with any other device regardless if it’s TI, quartz or gems. Plus if wasting $15 on concentrate testing a new device is an issue, I’d have put the $1000 you’ve spent recently on new devices on concentrate, after all, no matter how good the rig or how close to your ideal use case it is, it’s no good if you can’t afford to dab in it.

Agreed, don't think your equipment is the issue and buying "something better" won't help. But you might want to consider investing in a rosin press if you're plowing through $60 fun times.

 

[WelshBrok]

trying to decide between this and a dcup and curious if theres any functional difference or if they are really just two different versions of the same thing.

Or I guess buy every dab rig ever for science
Hope you find what you’re looking for Enialis.

 

[Enialis]

Edit: I'm so sorry this is so long, my eyes are bleeding after seeing this now that its posted but I didn't want to break the back to back posts rule again this week.

@WelshBrok i sincerely appreciate the sound advice you've given me, really. Same to everyone else thats been helping me in these threads.

Part of the reason I did this on a public forum is so somebody could check me if I went to far since I have no social circle in this area and none of my family uses cannabis and places like this are the only way for me to get good information or any kind of help with these things.

It doesn't help that part of the rush is due to pressure from my family to switch away from the erig entirely to something more permanent.
In their minds, we are getting nickled and dimed by coils, batteries, orings, etc every other month and it annoys them so much that they would rather write a blank check for an expensive device that eliminates that entirely from their lives.

I don't get it, but they were kind enough to take me in and pay for all of my expenses, including all of my medical cannabis so I'm in absolutely no position to argue with them about any of this nor turn down a their offer to buy me a high end vape as long as they don't have to hear about it every month.

I wish I was better able to articulate some of these things and not be so esoteric about it all and what I wanted in a vape. Its times like this where not being part of the local cannabis scene while being on the spectrum makes situations like these uniquely difficuly, I'm sure others here can relate.

As for what do to do next, I'm not sure. Unless peak atomizers last over a year its probably not going to be an option for me.
Its seems like an non-enail concentrate vape is going to have durability problems like my cloud evo, they preferred that I just get a flowerpot and sell the evo once its fixed so we don't have to worry about it ever breaking.

@guyonthecouch I'm going to keep exploring my quartz banger setup and aproach it from a different perspective while researching alternatives. I'm just going to have to relearn the intricacies of it from the torch days until I either get used to it or find an alternative nail.

Ideally, I'd like to find something that let's me take advantage of the jcat controllers scripting features in the future now that I'm realizing a quartz banger is maybe not the best option and that I should have stuck with my initial gut feeling of getting a dnail/ hybrid nail or metal "banger".

Swapping out the quartz for sic or titanium was always the solution in my erig and similar devices so I guess I was thinking it would have the same effect here.

Now to put down the phone and take my dispensary bag upstairs for some serious scientific research!

@guyonthecouch tell me more about saving money with a rosin press!

an eighth of flower is the same price as a gram of concentrate and there's no bulk discount but its regularly over 30% thc by weight, what kind of yields would that get and how potent is the end product? I would need at least 1 gram of 70% thc by weight to break even if my math is correct.

this last oz i bought is actually 37% which is the highest I've ever seen on or offline that had testing numbers to prove it and I was going to try doing the hair straightener method until I realized my ex still had my good hair straightener I bought to try rosin.

 

[strech]

I still feel like your not doing something right in your email/banger setup. You should have no issues getting nice hits.

What temp are you keeping your controller at?

 

[JCat]

@Enialis , I think you may be on the right track; although I don't weigh my dabs, I'm pretty sure (from when I did weigh them) I'm in the .02-.03 range generally speaking. I like the 25mm setup, and I personally prefer the non-deep dish. I like the ruby/sapphire inserts but am very particular in that it needs to be a 1mm gap total (0.5mm around) for a good fit; which means a 19mm insert for a 25mm banger w/ 2.5mm sidewalls.

This isn't the best setup for large up-temps, but I do like to do 25-40 deg up-temps generally speaking, as I feel that it injects the heat at about the right rate for a dab to compensate any loss from when the dab initially hits the surface. I also do sometimes do larger up-temps (100-150deg), but find that these are more challenging to get just right, and if you start drawing too soon, you will waste your concentrate (at least that's how it feels ... it just all slowly vaporizes off without generating any significant clouds). The key with a larger up-temp is to overshoot it and not start your inhale too soon.

For a hybrid nail (ie. titanium and SiC), for up-temps, I would make sure to get something like a d-nail halo, rather than say a v-rod, so the coil has direct contact with the entire bottom of the SiC dish. You want lots of coil to dish contact to increase speed of transfer. With a d-nail halo setup I imagine one could get a much better up temp. I just found that once I got used to a pure glass setup, when I went back to the Ti/SiC, I could REALLY taste the Ti (a metallic taste), after the 1st dab. The 1st dab (maybe 2) I couldn't taste it much, but by the 2nd or 3rd, it was a massive taste (but this could just be me ... my theory though is it's something with the reclaim on the Ti surface)

Now all this being said, I'm not trying to encourage you to go out and buy more stuff , however, just offering my opinions on how different nails will behave depending on materials etc. Thermal conductivity of materials used also plays a huge part ... the higher the thermal conductivity, the faster it heats/transfers heat, but also the faster it cools. So thermal conductivity and temperature stability oppose each other so finding a balance that you like is often a large part of it I believe. And then figuring out how to inject the heat into it, based on your material your desired effects, the volume of air, etc. is also going to be unique for everyone.

E-Nail setups tend to have more thermal mass and thus better temperature stability then e-rigs, but also generally have much lower thermal conductivity (due to the larger mass and the thicker materials)

And one final note, also being on the spectrum (and ADHD), I can uniquely sympathize with your struggles to find ALL the information to get the BEST experience (There is a reason I've owned likely 50+ vapes at this point ... )

 

[bizwaxzion]

@Enialis I've seen your posts in various threads and feel for you. I think you are making this too complicated. I do not have any eRigs - but have used 510 based atomizers - I found them to be some amount of maintenance on a regular basis. I do have quartz bangers and a weedeater. I too have gone crazy with dabbing "stuff" but the reality is most days the enail is running with a single 5mm ruby in a standard 25mm banger. I use an Auber 300 with boost mode 390F -> 530F and drop 1/2 rice grain size dabs when the controller hits 500F. Banger floor temp measurements show about 70-80F drop from controller temp. I like this setup because it's very low maintenance and I get 4-5 good pulls before quick q-tipping. Now - this are not the same as a torch dab - that's a different experience and I've not found an exact match with the PID/coil - it is what it is. If your enail setup isn't giving you the vapor you are looking for, I suggest dabbing right off the banger and bumping up the temp in say 10 or 20 degree increments until you have found the "hot dab" spot and then back down to your desired level. Good luck and godspeed.

 

[invertedisdead]

Here's an old uptemp vid from a few years ago using the controller to initiate the temperature ramp with no inserts.