Environmental Disasters! (we saw coming)

[vapviking]

‘Last nail in the coffin’: Utah’s Great Salt Lake on verge of collapse

It’s lost 73% of its water and is unable to sustain some wildlife – and could soon negatively affect human health

www.theguardian.com

Not as much a climate change issue as it is an over-use issue:

"But studies suggest that only about 9% of the lake’s decline due to evaporation and reduced runoff can be blamed on climate change.
A legacy of water overuse is the main threat to the largest saltwater lake in the western hemisphere, and huge water diversions to irrigate vast operations to grow alfalfa and hay are no longer sustainable in Utah, Abbott said, nor are lush lawns in cities and suburbs."

"They call it Paradise.
I don't know why
You call someplace Paradise
Kiss it goodbye"
The Great Divide, Don Henley

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

Sounds to me like textbook (man made) climate change. People exploiting nature which results in a confused and deteriorating ecosystem is what's happening in the example at hand, and what we see worldwide. It's called climate change afaik? Maybe it's not caused by rising temps, but climate change is of course way more comprehensive than that.

 

[florduh]

The whole pandemmy experience demonstrated exactly how this whole climate change thing is gonna go down if you live in the First World. Over a million Americans died over the past 3 years, but we all just shrug it off.

Do you really think any American suburbanite is gonna even flinch when like a million or ten million Indians die within a few hours due to a wet bulb humidity event? I don't. "LOL, I guess that Third World country shoulda improved their power grid". That will be the response.

It's not like Americans will be insulated from the horrors. But they'll be localized. A few hundred thousand Floridians die in an hour when wet bulb temps coincide with a power outage. Unless you know someone who died, it will be shrugged off.

Conservatives will say "LOL, imagine living in FLORIDUH without a generator! Those poor losers shoulda worked harder to afford one!" The good, bleeding heart Libs will say "oh well, that's what those hillbillies voted for!"

I wondered why we're spending a trillion a year on the military and next to nothing trying to mitigate or prepare for the horrors. But then I realized, that IS the climate change plan! The world will become increasingly unstable due to droughts and famine. The Right's obsession with the border will reach its final form as we mow down any refugees fleeing disaster zones.

If you're unfamiliar with the whole wet bulb humidity thing, here's an article going over it. As a Floridian, this is terrifying stuff.

Why you need to worry about the ‘wet-bulb temperature’

Scientists think we need to pay attention to a measure of heat and humidity – and it’s edging closer to the limits of human survivability

www.theguardian.com

 

[vapviking]

Sounds to me like textbook (man made) climate change. People exploiting nature which results in a confused and deteriorating ecosystem is what's happening in the example at hand, and what we see worldwide. It's called climate change afaik? Maybe it's not caused by rising temps, but climate change is of course way more comprehensive than that.

deteriorating ecosystem = environmental deterioration

The scientist quoted was making the point that over-use has been the culprit causing the decline of the lake and that climate change is not the bigger cause of decline. I think you are making the point that the over-use and decline is in turn contributing to cause climate change, also a valid point.

My intent with the thread title was to highlight specific Environmental Events, maybe call them consequences, that maybe should have been foreseen and possibly prevented. Not so much, "Who's to blame for climate change?"

An example might be how strip mining a mountaintop for coal might, in the end, result in burying a town below...putting a serious crimp in the lifestyle (read 'environment') of the townsfolk...

 

[Knewt]

‘Last nail in the coffin’: Utah’s Great Salt Lake on verge of collapse

It’s lost 73% of its water and is unable to sustain some wildlife – and could soon negatively affect human health

www.theguardian.com

Not as much a climate change issue as it is an over-use issue:

"But studies suggest that only about 9% of the lake’s decline due to evaporation and reduced runoff can be blamed on climate change.
A legacy of water overuse is the main threat to the largest saltwater lake in the western hemisphere, and huge water diversions to irrigate vast operations to grow alfalfa and hay are no longer sustainable in Utah, Abbott said, nor are lush lawns in cities and suburbs."

"They call it Paradise.
I don't know why
You call someplace Paradise
Kiss it goodbye"
The Great Divide, Don Henley

But Utah is very optimistic, they still keep the pumps ready to go.

Great Salt Lake pumps constantly maintained, even in severe drought

Silent for 32 years and left high and dry by the drought, pumps at the Great Salt Lake are ready to start up again if needed. The drought has taken a big toll on the lake. It’s now near its lowest level since 1963, but in the 1980s, record snowmelt poured into the lake. Flood waters took over...

kutv.com

 

[666Honeybadger]

imho all these problems basically have one, common cause.
Overpopulation.
We f*ng breed too much.

Sometimes i imagine to look down at our globe from space so i can observe it as if it was an apple.
Then i zoom in a bit on areas that are populated by humans and try to see how these areas evolve over time.
I can't unsee the fact that we humans are nothing more then the equivalent of mold.
We suffocate our surroundings and draw all life out of it and when it's totally dead we just move to the next green part and start again...

And even tho we know that we are rapidly killing our environment and the other animals, even tho we realise we are cramping too many humans on our planet....
we still can't seem to control our breeding drift. It's pathetic imo.
And we don't care that we take down all the other species in our pity attempt of being bigger then nature.
Pffff, humans suck...
Sorry guys but truth be told!

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

Overconsumption as well.

we still can't seem to control our breeding drift

I think here lies the crux of our condition. We have evolved into a species of extreme power, but we're still being guided by animal instincts. People* have become so arrogant to think they are above the ecosystem and an evolved species, while the fact of the matter is that the alienation our intelligence has lead us to is the cause for our destruction (the urge to stockpile shit for example, and yeah also procreation) making more and more clear how we are in fact a part of the ecosystem and inferior in power to that of nature.

*We should keep in mind that this whole fuckup has been achieved under specific hierarchies like patriarchy, so it's unfair to blame this on all people when for example women were mostly subordinated by men. There's also geographical hot spots and historical events that have played a larger role in this. Think of the christianization of Europe, Cartesian anthropocentrism, European colonialism/imperialism/capitalism.

 

[florduh]

We would easily have an even higher population than we have today. We just can't all live like suburban Americans. The people aren't the problem. The problem is we've organized our society in the dumbest, most wasteful way possible.

 

[Cheebsy]

ExxonMobil: Oil giant predicted climate change in 1970s - scientists

Researchers claim to put a number on what Exxon knew about temperature rise as early as the 1970s.

www.bbc.co.uk

Nothing particularly new here but still...

 

[Dannyco]

‘Last nail in the coffin’: Utah’s Great Salt Lake on verge of collapse

It’s lost 73% of its water and is unable to sustain some wildlife – and could soon negatively affect human health

www.theguardian.com

Not as much a climate change issue as it is an over-use issue:

"But studies suggest that only about 9% of the lake’s decline due to evaporation and reduced runoff can be blamed on climate change.
A legacy of water overuse is the main threat to the largest saltwater lake in the western hemisphere, and huge water diversions to irrigate vast operations to grow alfalfa and hay are no longer sustainable in Utah, Abbott said, nor are lush lawns in cities and suburbs."

"They call it Paradise.
I don't know why
You call someplace Paradise
Kiss it goodbye"
The Great Divide, Don Henley

I remember hunting ducks with my uncle there like a decade ago. Such a wonderful place ruined...
Hopefully out dear gov with all the taxes it takes from hunters/fisherman can fund some programs for it.
Afaik, a lot of stores and companies( specifically hunting ones like banded waterfowl, sitka and others) pay a lot of taxes for conservation. Maybe something similar could be done.

666honeybadger said:


imho all these problems basically have one, common cause.
Overpopulation.
We f*ng breed too much.

Sometimes i imagine to look down at our globe from space so i can observe it as if it was an apple.
Then i zoom in a bit on areas that are populated by humans and try to see how these areas evolve over time.
I can't unsee the fact that we humans are nothing more then the equivalent of mold.
We suffocate our surroundings and draw all life out of it and when it's totally dead we just move to the next green part and start again...

And even tho we know that we are rapidly killing our environment and the other animals, even tho we realise we are cramping too many humans on our planet....
we still can't seem to control our breeding drift. It's pathetic imo.
And we don't care that we take down all the other species in our pity attempt of being bigger then nature.
Pffff, humans suck...
Sorry guys but truth be told!

Holy, I remember coming to this lake as a kid.
@666Honeybadger I mean people would LOVE to ignore that fact and blame literally anything else, but tripling out planets human population on top of the need to feed all of those people and provide goods in the age of high-production industry CANNOT go unpunished by nature. It's simply not sustainable to grow population this fast without doing a whole load of damage to environment.

 

[KeroZen]

I once saw a very interesting TED talk showing that most people are wrong about the overpopulation problem. In many (if not most?) developed countries, the birth-rate is already too low (ex: Japan, Germany etc) and overall the expected worldwide population is expected to plateau at some point.

The talk even showed that contrary to most people's beliefs, even in India, the average family has now 2.something children, so just enough not to decline but nowhere exponential nor out of control (like Apu in the Simpsons... d'oh!)

He then said that the only countries with "excessive" birthrate these days are in Africa, but this is also counter-balanced by the fact they have a very high mortality rate, and terrible health care etc.

So the problem is not the population, it's that we can't all afford to live like North Americans (or even like Europeans) There would be enough resources for us all if we all had a more frugal and responsible way of life, not centered on exponential growth and obsessed by GDP.

 

[Dannyco]

So the problem is not the population, it's that we can't all afford to live like North Americans (or even like Europeans) There would be enough resources for us all if we all had a more frugal and responsible way of life, not centered on exponential growth and obsessed by GDP.

Yeah, what I've meant is not specifically increasing population is a problem. Problem that those "new" people need to eat, wear something and leave somewhere, so it all drives industrial machine to fill those needs(and that usually comes at a cost).

 

[666Honeybadger]

So the problem is not the population, it's that we can't all afford to live like North Americans (or even like Europeans) There would be enough resources for us all if we all had a more frugal and responsible way of life, not centered on exponential growth and obsessed by GDP.

While i don't agree with the denial of the current overpopulation that we are experiencing at this moment i do wonder why it would even be the goal to reach (or even try to reach) the maximum human population that can inhabit the planet without it falling apart completely? Why?
It should not just be big enough for us humans btw because we are not the only animal species so we have no right to claim all and everything for our benefits. Or to extinct species and biotopes whilst doing it...

Ok, if we exploit every bit of the world just for our sake it might be big enough but i for one kinda liked the biodiversity and for there to be some untamed nature, a couple of clean oceans (with fish) and real forests (with various animals) tbh.

Also:
i mean it's an illusion that all of the sudden we would magically start to work together on a global scale towards the universal bigger good...
We don't behave like an ant family. There will always be people that want everything and still more for themselves so saying it could be done is not the same as doing it. I mean it's not happening is it? But we do know it could be done... Ok then.
There's simply too many of us and we are still breeding and growing in numbers. With such quantities there will always be rotten apples spoiling it for the rest.
And the more apples the more rotten ones so once again: i truly believe we need less of these apples to make the world a better place for most.
And for other species/nature at the same time.
Less apples i say!

 

[vapviking]

Hey guys, let's not be all talk and no Environmental Disasters!
So many from which to choose!

Yes, there really is a North Pacific Garbage Patch, and it's spectacular!
A lot of it is fishing industry debris, and old buoys,
Then there's the just-plain garbage...mostly from 6 countries.

More than 90% of identifiable trash in North Pacific Garbage Patch comes from just six countries

A team of researchers with the Ocean Cleanup project and Wageningen University, both in the Netherlands, has found via sampling and testing that more than 90% of the identifiable trash swirling around in the North Pacific Garbage Patch (NPGP) comes from just six countries, all of which are major...

phys.org

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

i mean it's an illusion that all of the sudden we would magically start to work together on a global scale towards the universal bigger good...

Yeah on the contrary. There's perhaps never seen before amounts of people being raised out of poverty by capitalism. The same people that had their heritage, culture and environment destroyed by capitalist exploitation. And it slightly improving their condition is of course no charity's but merely so there's more consumers. We can't manage our numbers.

 

[florduh]

There's perhaps never seen before amounts of people being raised out of poverty by capitalism.

This talking point is popular, but mostly bullshit. Just subtract Communist China out of the numbers and you'd see poverty hasn't been appreciably reduced at all.

I don't disagree that things would be better off if there were fewer people. But....people like fucking and most of them like having kids. If changing something that integral to the human experience is on the table, shouldn't reorganizing society to be a bit more sustainable be an option as well?

I believe we have the technology and resources to give every man, woman, and child on this planet a secure, comfortable, fulfilling life. We've just organized things like a bunch of dummies. I mean, 40% of the food produced in America gets thrown away.

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

China is capitalism though

 

[florduh]

China is capitalism though

You're right. And it's kind've embarrassing that the Commies are kind've kicking our ass at Capitalism. But China also sinks a massive amount into infrastructure and social spending compared to someplace like the US.

More than 90% of identifiable trash in North Pacific Garbage Patch comes from just six countries

A team of researchers with the Ocean Cleanup project and Wageningen University, both in the Netherlands, has found via sampling and testing that more than 90% of the identifiable trash swirling around in the North Pacific Garbage Patch (NPGP) comes from just six countries, all of which are major...

phys.org

This kind've shit scares me because the Amazon rainforests aren't "the lungs of the earth". It's the ocean.

How much oxygen comes from the ocean?

At least half of the oxygen produced on Earth comes from the ocean, mostly from tiny photosynthesizing plankton. But marine life also uses roughly the same amount of oxygen to breathe, for cellular respiration, and in the decomposition process.

oceanservice.noaa.gov

 

[just_the_flu]

...the problem is we are leaving our small communities for large cities... most, if not all problems are where the population is greatest... people lose compassion for other's when there is more people in general... In my experience...

..."the solution to pollution is dilution"...

 

[vapviking]

7.88 inches today, and counting.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1707832737779036204

 

[vapviking]

‘The science is irrefutable’: US warming faster than global average, says report

Government assessment says extreme weather events mean country suffers a disaster every three weeks, costing at least $1bn

www.theguardian.com

 

[vapviking]

Debbie Downer here again with more bad news.
21 Species declared extinct this year- in US alone.

‘Grief is a rational response’: the 21 US species declared extinct this year

Hawaii hardest hit by loss of eight birds, with an Ohio catfish, a Pacific fruit bat and eight freshwater mussels also disappearing

www.theguardian.com

 

[SinfulRoad]

Debbie Downer here again with more bad news.
21 Species declared extinct this year- in US alone.

‘Grief is a rational response’: the 21 US species declared extinct this year

Hawaii hardest hit by loss of eight birds, with an Ohio catfish, a Pacific fruit bat and eight freshwater mussels also disappearing

www.theguardian.com

And it's going to get worse and worse.

 

[florduh]

And it's going to get worse and worse.

It's going great for shareholders though!

 

[Hackerman]

Then, there's the other side of the coin.

Natural History Museum scientists described a record 815 new species in 2023

This year scientists at the Natural History Museum have been busy.

www.nhm.ac.uk