Edible vs. Inhalation

[cptchronic]

I'm not sure where else to ask this and it's probably cuz I'm baked but does anyone know how it's possible to get higher with edibles vs Inhalation?

I understand the processing is different and the high but I'm just wondering in biological/chemistry terms why you can achieve a higher plateau with edibles.

Like since out bodies only have so many receptors to absorb cannabinoids, how does changing the form of ingestion allow for more cannabinoids to bind with receptors? Or is it the same amount just the different form of ingestion triggers a different set of receptors?

I mean I guess more often then not I ingest way more than I would be able to dab but I feel like that's only because I know I can get to a higher plateau. If I were to dab that much, after a few dabs I feel as if I don't get much higher. Is it more mental or is there an actual difference in the reaction?

Thanks guys

 

[Skyscraper]

The 11-hydroxy THC is several times more potent than delta9 THC when smoked. I don't know anything about chemistry besides basic school knowledge, but those are the specific terms for THC when ingested and inhaled.

Edibles are also a longer lasting, so the come up and plateau are different from vaporizing.

 

[cptchronic]

I understand the difference in molecular structure but what I don't understand is why 11-hydroxy is stronger.

Does that molecule target different receptors or does it just impact the same receptors in different ways?

I just don't understand how one can fully saturate their receptors by inhalation but can achieve a higher high with edibles even tho the same receptors are being saturated? If that makes sense, I mean I get that being a different chemical it could be argued that it's just stronger on a molecular level but I guess what I'm looking for is why its stronger.

 

[rabblerouser]

I understand the difference in molecular structure but what I don't understand is why 11-hydroxy is stronger.

Does that molecule target different receptors or does it just impact the same receptors in different ways?

I just don't understand how one can fully saturate their receptors by inhalation but can achieve a higher high with edibles even tho the same receptors are being saturated? If that makes sense, I mean I get that being a different chemical it could be argued that it's just stronger on a molecular level but I guess what I'm looking for is why its stronger.

it targets the same receptors but does different, although similar, things since it's a different chemical (once metabolized by the liver). I agree that edible can have a "stronger" effect. But i still generally prefer and stick to vaping.

Although, if prices become cheaper I'll probably get more into edibles. But, at MA dispensary prices...I'm sticking largely to flower. And I generally only make edibles out of my ABV every 2 months or so once I accumulate a good amount.

 

[cptchronic]

Yeah I usually only make edibles when I've got enough reclaim saved up but this time I used some fresh oil just for a holiday treat and then while blazed I thought of all of this.

But yeah I assumed it was some difference in the way the molecules react but I just still can't wrap my head around how a higher plateau can be reached if there's a limit to receptor saturation regardless of the chemical structure.

I just can't see those 2 forms of thc being that different from each other because a similar high is achieved in terms of what feels good. I feel with edibles it's more of a full all around high with your body and mind. I sometimes can get that feeling when I dab but it takes some reaaaaallly fire shit to do that lol

 

[Skyscraper]

I think if you dial in your edible dosage to your individual tolerance/preference level, then you can account for the added potency of the liver metabolized THC. At least part of the overwhelming edible experiences is related to tolerance.

I also think the longer lasting duration of an edible high can partly account for the stronger high. With inhaled cannabis, you can easily dose by taking a hit or two and waiting 5-10 minutes.

When I first started vaping I noticed the effect took longer to come on compared to smoking it. I remember some members theorizing this had to do with an adrenaline rush from smoking.

We used to smoke certain kinds when I was a kid we called "creeper" weed, because you would smoke a bowl or two, start talking or doing something else and you could tell the exact moment a room of us would suddenly be very, very high. I haven't had any strains that really fit that description in a while

 

[EmDeemo]

I understand the difference in molecular structure but what I don't understand is why 11-hydroxy is stronger.

Does that molecule target different receptors or does it just impact the same receptors in different ways?

I just don't understand how one can fully saturate their receptors by inhalation but can achieve a higher high with edibles even tho the same receptors are being saturated? If that makes sense, I mean I get that being a different chemical it could be argued that it's just stronger on a molecular level but I guess what I'm looking for is why its stronger.

My ridiculously limited, half remembered reasoning I saw on some documentary somewhere along the way was there are different receptors in the nervous system (i can be damn sure im garbling all of this) than there are in the brain and inhalation doesnt get to the entire endochrine network or whatever its fucking called.

Is that accurate and sciencey enough?

All i can say is theres was lovely coincidence that once I started decarboxylating and cooking with weed, my graves disease went into remission. Im aware it could just as likely be pure coincidence but I've carried on medicating that way, just in case

 

[MinnBobber]

But yeah I assumed it was some difference in the way the molecules react but I just still can't wrap my head around how a higher plateau can be reached if there's a limit to receptor saturation regardless of the chemical structure.

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11-hydroxy THC is more powerful and has a more psychedelic type of effect than THC. It's just like THC-A is different than THC which is different than CBD and CBN etc. It also passes thru the blood-brain barrier more rapidly than THC.
It is similar but different than THC and its effects vary from person to person, just like for THC. Some folks can consume massive amounts of THC (vaped) BUT are real lightweights on edibles. Others find that edibles don't get them medicated.

 

[cptchronic]

I understand that different forms impact you differently but my point I'm trying to get across is how can you ingest more through edibles with a limit to receptor saturation?

My ridiculously limited, half remembered reasoning I saw on some documentary somewhere along the way was there are different receptors in the nervous system (i can be damn sure im garbling all of this) than there are in the brain and inhalation doesnt get to the entire endochrine network or whatever its fucking called.

Is that accurate and sciencey enough?

All i can say is theres was lovely coincidence that once I started decarboxylating and cooking with weed, my graves disease went into remission. Im aware it could just as likely be pure coincidence but I've carried on medicating that way, just in case

That's more or less some of the information I'm looking for. I just don't understand how I can eat a 200mg edible and definitely feel higher than eating say a 50 mg edible. Then comparing this to inhalation methods, if 1 dab gets you about 15 mg of thc roughly, and after about 4 dabs or so I personally feel as if I reach a tolerance plateau. I just don't see how I can reach a plateau (receptor saturation) with only 60 mg of thc when I can munch down over 200 in an edible and not feel diminishing returns.

Is the excess in the edible just going to waste? Or is the 11-hydroxy form of thc able to bind in higher numbers to the same receptors? Or do new receptors get targeted like was stated above?

I just can't accept that just changing the form of thc allows for such a drastic difference in type of high, duration and strength. I agree it must play a role in why you get higher but there must be more to it in regards to absorbtion. There must be something going on regarding our body chemistry and how that THC is metabolized (through the liver vs lungs and what receptors are impacted). Maybe the answer I'm searching for has not been discovered yet or is too complicated to explain.

 

[rabblerouser]

I just can't accept that just changing the form of thc allows for such a drastic difference in type of high, duration and strength. I agree it must play a role in why you get higher but there must be more to it in regards to absorbtion. There must be something going on regarding our body chemistry and how that THC is metabolized (through the liver vs lungs and what receptors are impacted). Maybe the answer I'm searching for has not been discovered yet or is too complicated to explain.

It's the same with other drugs tho too, the opiate / elephant tranquilizer carfentanyl and morphine both work on your opioid receptors, but carfentanil is like 10,000 times more potent by weight. different drugs that work on the same receptors, same thing afaik.

 

[cptchronic]

I think opiates and other drugs are tough to compare to cannabiniods because they impact different receptors that are governed by different rules. And even then most opiates are transformed into morphine in the body anyway so it ends up being the same drug just a different dosage. I understand doing heroin is going to feel a lot stronger than a 30mg oxy but that is only because the heroin is a much higher dose of opiates, not because it is a different chemical. Same with the carfentanal, it would just be like taking 10,000 times the dose of oxy.

Thc and the other cannabinoids are an entirely different animal in how they impact the body because they target the enndocannabinoid system which is mainly what my question is focusing on.

With cannabis just because it's more concentrated does not mean it's more potent. A dab or an edible (of equal strength) still gets you the same amount of thc just in a different way. I want to find out why that same amount gives you such a different effect besides just the difference in molecular structure. I agree that it must play an important role in potency and what not but I just don't understand how you can take in more via ingestion and still have it be effective but when inhaling we face diminishing returns.

 

[MinnBobber]

I just don't understand how I can eat a 200mg edible and definitely feel higher than eating say a 50 mg edible. Then comparing this to inhalation methods, if 1 dab gets you about 15 mg of thc roughly, and after about 4 dabs or so I personally feel as if I reach a tolerance plateau. I just don't see how I can reach a plateau (receptor saturation) with only 60 mg of thc when I can munch down over 200 in an edible and not feel diminishing returns.

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The altered state bar is much higher with 11-hydroxy THC for several reasons. It is a different compound/different drug, just like crack cocaine vs regular cocaine. It has more psychedelic impact. It crosses the blood-brain barrier faster. It is much longer lasting. I think the psychedelic impact plays a big part in the higher threshold as getting more couchlocked from vaping more kush reaches a peak sooner. Eating more psychedelic intensive edibles gives a much higher peak from additional dosing. It gets trippier and trippier.

And considering you have billions of endocannabinoid receptors. I'm not sure you ever really reach saturation point from vaping or eating. You just get diminished returns, which happens at a much higher level with edibles.

 

[cptchronic]

....................................................................................................
The altered state bar is much higher with 11-hydroxy THC for several reasons. It is a different compound/different drug, just like crack cocaine vs regular cocaine. It has more psychedelic impact. It crosses the blood-brain barrier faster. It is much longer lasting. I think the psychedelic impact plays a big part in the higher threshold as getting more couchlocked from vaping more kush reaches a peak sooner. Eating more psychedelic intensive edibles gives a much higher peak from additional dosing. It gets trippier and trippier.

And considering you have billions of endocannabinoid receptors. I'm not sure you ever really reach saturation point from vaping or eating. You just get diminished returns, which happens at a much higher level with edibles.

This is more or less some of the information I'm going for, I just want to know on a more technical level the exact processes that are taking place, like what drives absorbtion rates to be faster or what causes easier blood-brain barrier transformation, or what gives it the more psychedelic feeling in regards to our body chemistry.

I would still stay away from comparing this to other drugs because crack and cocaine are once again the same drugs essentialy. I can see the reasoning behind these comparisons because ingestion method would play a part in the high felt but on a molecular level they end up being the same drug, impacting the same receptors. In our case we have 2 different drugs that are very similar, impacting the same ( or possibly different) receptors.

 

[stonedbob]

good information here:

 

[Baron23]

good information here:

Very nice reference document.

May I ask for a link to this document, please?

Thank you

 

[stonedbob]

Very nice reference document.

May I ask for a link to this document, please?

Thank you

i dont have the original document, only those pictures...

 

[Tranquility]

Very nice reference document.

May I ask for a link to this document, please?

Thank you

An image search gives us the online pictures:
https://imgur.com/a/5kVXk/