1. What does SSTB mean? See our glossary of acronyms.

Daily vape as dangerous as daily smoke?

Discussion in 'Vaporization Discussion' started by chipaldance, Nov 29, 2012.

  1. chipaldance

    chipaldance Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2
    Hi all :)
    (I'm french)

    I'm a big fan of vaporizing since 2 years now, thinking it's the healthiest way to keep enjoying marijuana.

    I've read an interesting article that explain vaporizing marijuana could be as dangerous as smoking it, due to tar stored in trichoma, in the terpenoid system.

    It explains that a vapo give us 10 parts of tar for 1 part of cannabinoid, when a join is about 13 parts of tar for 1 of canna.

    Here is my french source:
    http://lucid-state.org/forum/showth...annabis-reste-extrèmement-nocif-pour-la-santé

    Did you heard about that?

    Thanks for your answer.

    Pierre
     
  2. Pcpvapors

    Pcpvapors Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    907
    Interesting very interesting but nonetheless 3 tars is 3 tars! I dunno my lungs feel healthier but hell it could be a "placebo" kinda deal. I find it hard to believe that there's only a 3 tar difference especially when joint paper is all sorts of resiny when burning.... I'm a firm believer that the worst part of the joint is the paper, granted we have "raw" papers and the like now but either way you're still burning other than cannabis...
     
  3. vorrange

    vorrange Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,234
    Chipaldance, all things considered, you will more easily develop a mental disorder for using too much MJ than a lung-related disease because of the tar content with vaporization.

    Vaporization is not the healthiest way to enjoy MJ. IMO, that place belongs to ingested MJ.

    But, it does not even compare to the damage inflicted by combustion, especially if you use a water piece to filter the air you inhale.
     
    LeTchen and Jeppy like this.
  4. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    792
    It sounds like what they are calling tar is just the essential oils of the plant being burned when you vape at a higher temperature then they boil at. This is why you want to start real low in temperature( 152f or 200f) and slowly raise the temperature as this will help prevent degradation of these oils. Vaporizing is so wonderful because you can control the heat to release substances in their pure form, and feel the effects much faster then eating, while still preventing your body from absorbing toxic substances, but you need a vaporizer with good heat stability and accuracy. Eating is still the best but you have to know how to eat properly to gain any benefits.
     
  5. smokum

    smokum I am who I am and your approval isn't needed!

    Messages:
    1,579
    Location:
    Canaduhh
    I feel there is no way possible for vaping to equate to combustion solely base on the the byproducts that combustion itself produces in comparison.

    I have no direct links to back up my statement, but its a generally known fact that when something (anything), is 'burned' it creates a chemical reaction and in turn a 'byproduct' not found if it wasn't burnt. And many of those byproducts created are believed to be carcinogenic according to today's science.

    As vorrange stated... the healthiest way in through edibles (and/or juicing btw), but with a choice of inhalation... the vaping option must be 'safer' (not safe), than combustion.
     
    AGBeer, Dreamerr and Shoff like this.
  6. Tweek

    Tweek Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,142
    Whenever I questioned my doc regarding medication side effects, he would always say to me "You have to weigh the risk to benefit. If the benefits of the med outweigh the negatives of the side effect, then it's worth trying."

    I take this same approach here. The benefits I get via vaporizing far outweigh the negatives I would suffer not only from smoking, but from the the illness that would come back with a vengeance should I stop medicating out of fear of lung disease.

    So as much as I encourage the healthiest approaches possible, I will stick to my vapes until someone comes along with something even better. There are probably worse things in the every day air we breathe, than in vapor. Just my :2c:
     
    ou812?, Jeppy, photobooth and 2 others like this.
  7. Roger D

    Roger D Vapor Wizard

    Messages:
    1,137
    Not legit
    Smoke a buzz in a room > smells like crap
    Vape a bud in a room > smells like flowers

    Can't compare
     
    LeTchen and Tweek like this.
  8. kingofnull

    kingofnull ace

    Messages:
    2,366
    Location:
    Canada
    Agreed. Harm reduction.
     
    Tweek likes this.
  9. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,138
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    Brussel sprouts smell like crap.
    7 layer chocolate cakes smells GREAT.

    Can't compare. ;)
     
    Teedub, Gammy and Tweek like this.
  10. Tweek

    Tweek Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,142
    Especially on exit. :goat:
     
    ou812?, SmokeyJihad and VapeVoice like this.
  11. kingofnull

    kingofnull ace

    Messages:
    2,366
    Location:
    Canada
    You're comparing two completely different things.
     
  12. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    792
    I think it needs to be told and is legit because a lot of people think they can vape smelly buds and have no issues with health from vaping these buds, but this isn't true if you start at a high temperature in the 360f range, because the low boiling oils will be degrading when you start at such a high temperature. This is not that much of an issue if you eat whole foods, spices, leafy vegetables and exercise as you will help detox your body and rebuild it, but if you eat a lot of processed foods along with a lot of roasted, fried, or grilled foods you will be high in polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, as these foods will have polycyclic hydrocarbons just like cannabis, due to being heated to a high temperature, which means you will have a higher chance of having health issues down the road.

    Add to the fact doing concentrates is the thing now, that will make the issue even worse because concentrates are extremely high in essential oils, and the way people use them, will generate a significant amount of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons because they use high heat with doing dabs or just straight smoke it with a lighter. I think once people change their views of vaping or ingesting cannabis, meaning not needing to absorb it so fast, the way it is consumed will change the health consequences of it's use. Recreational users might not care, but for med users this is very important.
     
    ou812?, Roger D and vorrange like this.
  13. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,138
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    The point is, is that if something tastes or smells good, it does not automatically mean that it's better for you than something that tastes or smells bad.

    But it's all kind of subjective. To many who are not imbibers of the bud, vapor in a room is the farthest thing from the smell of flowers.
     
    CA5H and Tweek like this.
  14. FLskwat

    FLskwat VAPOLITICS!

    Messages:
    1,246
    Location:
    EU (FL towah)

    Pierre, I'm french too and I did not answer on the other french thread...
    The source you are using is just very very modified from what was first stated! Meaning french poster totally interpreted wrongly/translate badly the study done first in 1996 and then in 2001, and mixes everything between vape, smoke, tobacco...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporizer_(cannabis)
    Please read this and essentially the "scientific study" paragraph you'll see that the french poster used the 1996 MAPS/NORML study but that study was done with 2 old school conduction vapes (hot plate & such) and with poor quality weed... and all the next studies tend to prove it is far less nocive to vape then combust!
    Though I agree this study is the ONLY one based on tar levels (vs. the 2006-2008 studies based on THC concentration, CO2, and toxic gaz) I'm pretty confident with top quality weed or concentrates + an actual convection vape the results would be pretty different!

    In resume we really need a serious and updated study on tar levels with vaping!
     
    Dreamerr, zmurder, JCat and 1 other person like this.
  15. kingofnull

    kingofnull ace

    Messages:
    2,366
    Location:
    Canada
    Agreed.
     
  16. Roger D

    Roger D Vapor Wizard

    Messages:
    1,137
    Yeah I agree with you guys
    The way we like and perceive odors is largely influenced by our culture. Sometimes we tend to love unhealthy food.

    But, objectively, the bad smell of a cigarette is here to tell you that shit is toxic.

    My point was, saying that smoking is just a bit more harmful that vaping doesn't make any kind of sense, it is far worse. The last times I inhaled some smoke, I felt intoxicated, had a bad wake up, headaches and stuff like that.
    Honestly I think vaping affects the lungs, they get more sensitive, as your smell sense, and you notice things you never payed attention before.
     
  17. JCat

    JCat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,169
    Location:
    Ontario
    I think it's important to discuss and hopefully more research will come (I agree that we need more facts). That being said, I think it's safe to say that the lower temperature the extraction for the desired effect, the better. I know I feel a heck of a lot better about a year and a half after switching to vaping ... my lung capacity is great, I almost never cough or get congested from the vapor, my vocal range has improved some and it's just easier to sing than it was a year ago ...

    I don't know ... seems much better :)
     
    ou812? and vorrange like this.
  18. vorrange

    vorrange Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,234
    I agree. My experience suggests that not vaping is better than vaping. But vaping is MUCH better than combusting in every way possible. I don't care what one study says since they clearly are not looking at the big picture.
    It is entirely possible that processes occur in our bodies, with the help of protective biochemical compounds that explain the difference between vaping and combusting.

    What i do know is that, although the high is different due to some compounds not being released (some might look at this as "worse", but i actually prefer the vape high better.), everything about vaping is better than smoking.

    The only thing i miss is the preparation ritual with the hand rolling, etc.. not worth your health and your well being in comparison.
     
    ou812? and Roger D like this.
  19. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,138
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    There is so much that we don't know regarding MJ. In the US, we really need to get it off of the Schedule One list so that more legitimate testing can be done.

    With that being said though, there is a risk/reward ratio that needs to be considered here and with MJ, even vaped MJ, there is a risk. Is the reward worth it is something that we each have to decide.

    Is vaped weed healthier than smoked weed? To me, it feels like it is so in lieu of any multiple substantiated tests from different sources that prove otherwise, I'll go with my intuition. Could my intuition be wrong? Yup, sure could.
     
    vorrange likes this.
  20. chipaldance

    chipaldance Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2
    The big difference is about toxic gaz (Zyklon B & Citric acid, etc.), which are disapearing without combustion. I agree this is huge part of the problem flewed out :)

    But tricoms are still embeding some tar (terpenoid) naturally. The heating process is not involved in the problem. Neither the weed variety I think. Tarpenoid is what define flavour and the plant flavour.

    The fact is that lung cancer is especially about tar accumulated. And this one is still there in the vaporization process...

    What I'm thinking for now is that carbon is assimilated more easily without all the other stuff of combustion. A lessier evil so :)

    Big thanks for theses answers. thx Flskwats for your legit refer, thx luciano for your heating advices :)
    I'm born vegan, worying about what I daily ingest is part of my natural way to live :)
     
    FLskwat likes this.
  21. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    792
    Those oils are not bad for you though, at least in low numbers that occur naturally within the plant. It is ingesting high amounts or heating to degradation that is the problem. In fact, my theory is these oils allow thc to be assimilated more effectively then without them, and provide the health benefits.

    I posted something about this in this thread:
    http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/excessive-vape-coughing.7273/
     
  22. Gammy

    Gammy Gammy's getting upset!

    Messages:
    102
    I think the safest way to vape is with low temps, as stated by Luchiano. The first time i ever vaped was an experiment: I put some bud in a mason jar and put that jar in the oven for a while. When i took it out the bud was still green, I took a straw and pierced the paper foil (that I had wrapped on top) and inhaled. There was no visible vapor whatsoever and yet I felt very much vaped :). I think true vapor is almost invisible, but really I have no idea.

    My problem is that I like to feel the hit in my lungs and to achieve that the bud needs to be really toasted. I'm thinking that's less healthy than invisible vapor. But waayyy more fun! :D
     
    JCat likes this.
  23. Roger D

    Roger D Vapor Wizard

    Messages:
    1,137
    Extraction is maximal at maximal temps. If you have a limited supply, a relatively high tolerance, high temps are not an option. Upon that you need high temps to extract CBN.
    That said, low temps perfectly fits certain users. Not me, I like to start low for the taste, but that's just the start. I'll always push it to the maximum temperature available.

    I'm really looking forward to see serious studies about vaping and health.
    As far as I know, I feel better vaping rather than when I abstain. I used to have sneezing issues but I solved that with conditioning. The "problems" caused by vaping have practical solutions
     
    Paperback Writer and JCat like this.
  24. Zookeeper

    Zookeeper Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    123
    Location:
    N/A
    1 gram of ABV will make your nostrils stickier and browner than 1 gram of 90% pure wax. proclaiming that combustion and vaporization are even close to similar in terms of negative health effects on the user, is a stupid idea. its 2 completely different things being done.
     
  25. ViviDVapE

    ViviDVapE yay weed

    Messages:
    58
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    i dont know what is factually healther and everyone has a great opinion and logical ideas but i will say my lungs burn just as bad vaping as i do smoking..although i do not feel as physically exhausted vaping as i do smoking.. we also have to take into consideration that all bodies react differently. although if someone knows the real deal id like to know.
     

Support FC, visit our trusted friends and sponsors