Advise a noob: HA vs EQ vs Ion?

[Kitten]

Hi, all...

I've looked through these forums for a few days and found all sorts of great information, but now I feel like I need some advice for my individual situation. So, here it is! I have a chronic pain disorder, depression, anxiety, and insomnia. Unfortunately, I also have a really sensitive throat (and I sing, so I don't exactly want to toughen it up), so smoking is pretty much out. I've tried out two vapes that a friend had -- the volcano, and some other one I haven't seen anywhere online, some kind of handheld 80s-looking device that I think was forced-air. Honestly, that one was really too hot and harsh for me. The Volcano was pretty awesome, though, so I think I need to focus on bag options for now.

So, not being exactly made of money, right now I'm considering (in order of price) the HerbalAire 2.1, the Extreme Q, and the Zephyr Ion. Pros and cons...

HerbalAire 2.1:
Pros: Least expensive, apparently really efficient
Cons: Bags don't have valves, not totally sanguine about teflon, kind of lean toward digital over analog

Extreme Q:
Pros: Glass (non-reactive), Canadian, remote is neat
Cons: Bags don't have valves, lit with blue, glass (I'm a klutz)

Zephyr Ion:
Pros: Valves!, seems to be the most preferred among users here, probably don't need USB but it's just cool
Cons: Most expensive, no whip yet (just in case...), not totally sanguine about teflon

I think I'm forgetting stuff, but. Anyway, a passel of questions:

* Am I misremembering/wrong about any of that? Did I leave out important pros or cons for anything?
* Is there some particular reason why there aren't any valve systems that work on the HA or EQ? I'll almost certainly be putting the bag down, so it'd be best if it weren't just an open mouthpiece. I see people have made stoppers and stuff, but valves just seem handy.
* How tricky are the various bags to set up?
* Which would likely travel best (say, for a weekend away from home, not for walking about)?
* What's easiest to keep clean?
* Does the HA's efficiency mean you can't do much with the ABV?
* And of course, Which is most likely to be best for me, in your opinions?

Thanks.

-- Kitten the Noob

 

[ZigZag]

the Volcano was the first vaporizer i was a fan of, i remember trying my friends brothers HA about 2 years back and i was not very impressed because of how slow it filled the bag with vapors and iv been told the screens are not fine enough to put busted weed in but they may have changed this. but one thing i dont understand is why you think bags would be the right option for you.
i went out and picked myself up the extreme Q because it was digital and filled bags and i had only ever hit bags of vapor before, i didnt even think twice about the whip at first. about 2 days after i got my vape i think it was about the same time i registered on here i tried out a bowl out in the whip and the hoot was so much more smooth and tasty. i find bags to be more dry and harsh on the throat, and if you use a bong or something with water filtration its even more smooth.
i never have hit bags since

it sounds like your concern with the bag systems having no valve is because you think you'll fill a bag and not be able to take it all right away. with a whip system there's no left overs, you take what you want and your done

i think theres a thread around here somewhere that talks about what vape method is best for you, it says that bags are typically for situations where your with a bunch of people at a party or something so you can just pass the bag around. maybe i can find the link.

im just saying that i wish i new more about vaporizing before i bought my Extreme Q. because what your paying the big money for is the ability to fill bags. just seems like i wasted my money on the the "everything" unit but i dont even use the other option, if i new i wanted to hit a whip based vape i woulda picked one up for cheaper. dont get me wrong i love my Q and use it all the time. out of the ones posted id say that one is the one you should pickup.

a member on this site has invented a product that is similar to a whip system vaporizer but it has a custom water attachment ontop to inhale through.

http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?id=2234

sorry i cant find the other link i talked about early on in my post.

 

[stickstones]

welcome to the forum, kitten!

I don't think you can go wrong with any of these three vapes, so don't overthink it too much. I've never tried the HA, but have heard good things about it. I own both the E and the Ion.

The E probably requires the most work in cleaning, but that isn't much anyhow.

The E is probably the most fragile of the three.

I think the HA comes with a whip, while I know the E does and the Ion is supposed to release a whip soon. It's nice to have a hybrid unit so you can figure out how you best like to vape (for your next purchase, which will happen some day either due to collecting or eventual failure).

In your case, I would probably lean toward the Ion only because of its superior temperature control. If you are a med user, you will probably benefit from being able to dial in the exact temp you want for the desired effects. The HA is analog, I believe, and would require a learning curve for this. The E is digital, but the exact temp being achieved is suspect. The Ion claims to have temp readings that are within 1.5 C degrees of the actual temp at the bowl. I also like the valve system. When the whip comes out for this, it may be my favorite vape, as I almost only use the whip. The Ion is new to market and is experiencing some pump failures, but the company is standing behind the units and fixing them. In fact, all three companies have good to great reps for taking care of customers, and Arizer is second to none in this category.

Good luck choosing, and remember that any of these vapes should suit you just fine.

 

[gim]

Very minor note- the E's 'blue' lighting can be turned off.

Having recently seen a side-by side of the older V-towers and the EQ, the EQ is built much more sturdy. It's gotten a bad rap on being fragile which I have really yet to see.

 

[FEAR420]

The ION costs $120 MORE than either the HA or E/EQ....

 

[Katilsday]

You probably can't go wrong with either, however,
the Herbalaire is the cheapest because it has been on the market the longest (recently dropped from $240 to $180), is the easiest to set up and handle (no glass like Extreme, smaller than Ion).
I was iffy about the teflon too, but it is supposed to be non-reactive until at least twice the maximum temperature of the unit.

Your ABV in the HA depends on how thoroughly you vape and at what temperature. If you fill a crucible and use it until you aren't getting anything at full temp, your ABV would be useless. However, if you go until the flavor starts to change your ABV can make great brownies.

Most people seem to switch from the bags after a while. They aren't difficult to set up on the HA, and the lack of a valve has never bothered me. I upgraded with a SSV whip and GonG connection. The HA's biggest drawback is no glass; then again, its impossible to break any of the teflon attachments, unlike the E.

HA is my recommendation (extra money for things to put in it another plus), the new E seems to be pretty solid (if you want glass). I know the Ion has gotten good reviews, but it is still quite new.

 

[max]

The ION costs $120 MORE than either the HA or E/EQ....

The OP is aware of the prices on these three, and no one else in the thread has mentioned price. The Ion is actually available at a pretty good price for FC members, with as much as a 15% discount available.

the Herbalaire is the cheapest because it has been on the market the longest (recently dropped from $240 to $180),

Although you may be able to find the herbalAire for as little as $180 (eBay?), it's still priced at $250.

I've used the herbalAire for years, and used to own the non bag version of the Extreme (V-Tower), so I can speak from experience on those. I have not used the Ion yet.

Is there some particular reason why there aren't any valve systems that work on the HA or EQ?

I think it's a combination of cost consideration and the diifficulty of applying a valve system on a small mouthpiece. It's really a minor thing, since after the first draw, the vapor stays put in the bag pretty well. There are also quite a few 'homegrown' methods of sealing the bag if you're going to put it down for any length of time. Always keep in mind that the longer the vapor sits in the bag, even if it's sealed by a valve or whatever, the more vapor you'll lose to condensation, etc.

Which would likely travel best

There should be no problems if you pack carefully. The Extreme has the glass, so it would take the most care.

Does the HA's efficiency mean you can't do much with the ABV?

If you're using a higher temp, yes. Otherwise, no. With any vape the temp you're using is the #1 factor in how much is left in the ABV. The HA just does an excellent job of extracting everything (at the set temp) from the pieces of herb that it's designed to use. It's one of the few models on the market that doesn't do any better with ground herb. That's my experience anyway. The 18 inlet holes in the heating chamber are very effective. OTOH this design suffers a little in the 'big hit dept' when using direct draw/whip. It's effective, but doesn't compare to whip only vapes for rich vapor hits. The Extreme also takes a back seat in the rich hit dept. with whip use. Most users seeking rich hits pack the elbow screen.

Which is most likely to be best for me

I'd say that's for you to decide. The herbalAire has been around the longest and has to get the edge in reliability. The lack of digital circuitry is a plus IMO. The Extreme is the most versatile, and a better whip unit than the herbie, if you use the elbow method. The whip isn't out yet for the Ion, but some have connected other whips. I haven't heard anything on how the direct hits compare to other vapes though, and that would be a factor for me. I will say that a lot of people end up preferring whip/direct draw over bag use, assuming they enjoy the vapor experience. Bags are easy, but all your hits are the same, and thinner/diluted, compared to whip hits. If I were you, I'd browse the Ion thread and find the users who have attached whips from other units and see how they like the Ion's direct hits. If I were buying a dual mode vape as my only unit, I'd want satisfactory whip hits.

 

[lwien]

Ya know, I have to bring up one negative about bag vapes that I find is hardly ever mentioned, but to me, is a bit of a concern, and it's this.

Once you fill up, or even partially fill up a bag, you need to use it all within about a 30 minute period, but if you are as high as you want to get, than what is left in the bag is wasted.

I guess to many, it isn't a concern, but when it happens to me, I'm like...........damn.

Really looking forward to the whip option on the Ion though, but as a party vape, bags are really the best way to go.

 

[Wolface]

So would the HA be a good substitute for the PD as far as direct draw,ease of use and efficiency goes?

 

[max]

So would the HA be a good substitute for the PD as far as direct draw,ease of use and efficiency goes?

A PD/MZ type vape gives much more satisfying hits than the HA in my experience. Better vapor/air ratio. I use less too. That was one reason I pretty much quit using bags for personal comsumption. I always ended up going through herb faster when using bags, and it's not just the point that lwien mentioned, which is valid. Although at times I did switch the HA off before a crucible/bowl was done, most of the time I'd go ahead and vape it all, whether I felt the need or not.

You can certainly load a small amount in the herbalAire and vape it efficiently and effectively, but I found the hits thin and unsatisfying, and had to go on effect, rather than getting a nice, thick hit in my lungs. It's kind of like vaping a small amount in the Launch Box- 'well, I know I'm getting vapor, although I can't feel it. I'll just have to wait for it to hit me'.

The HA is very efficient at penetrating the bud you put in it, and getting it completely vaped, but a PD type vape is very efficient when it comes to how much you'll tend to use. It's not a function of how efficiently it processes/vapes, but you just find yourself not loading another vapor tube after doing one, two, whatever # works for the individual. It's psychological. You've got a big bowl or crucible full-you tend to vape the whole thing. With tiny PD bowls you have to reload, after a time you just don't reload because you don't feel the need. Now, if you want to get plastered to your chair ASAP and just sit and drool for a while, a big bowl vape, whether it's an SSV/DBV type whip unit or bag vape, is the way to go. You can get lots of vapor in a hurry.

 

[VWFringe]

....If you...use it until you aren't getting anything at full temp, your ABV would be useless. However, if you go until the flavor starts to change your ABV can make great brownies.

this probably explains my last brownie batch, and i thought the leaching didn't work, thanks

k, search works, but knowing the question...that takes me a while sometimes