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Tek Advanced Dry-Sift Based QWET Tek

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by Monsoon, Feb 21, 2016.

  1. Monsoon

    Monsoon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,599
    Location:
    Canada
    I've been getting fantastic, consistent results with this tech so I wanted to detail and share it here. This method is slightly more advanced and you'll need to buy a heated vacuum purge setup, buchner funnel filtration kit and a dry-sift tumbler. All in it was maybe CAN$1500, it's a good alternative if you can't open blast or don't want to make rosin. The process detailed below is how I make it, but feel free to make your own variations or just use it as inspiration. Constructive criticism is always appreciated and encouraged.

    Materials and Tools:

    - 100cc Buchner Funnel and 1L flask (try ebay)
    - Matching lab filters, both "fast" and "slow" grades (again ebay)
    - BestValueVacs flat vacuum chamber with pad heater and 3 CFM pump.
    - PollenMaster Dry Sift tumbler
    - 500ml and 250ml mason jars
    - Everclear or ~94% food grade ethanol
    - OilSlick Sheet
    - Infrared-Laser Temp gun

    Prep:

    Dry out your flowers until they're nearly bone dry, break them up into popcorn sized buds or smaller and place in a bag in the freezer for at least 12 hours. Also place a bag of 10-20 nickels in the freezer as well.

    Dry Sifting:

    Take your flowers out of the freezer, dump into the PollenMaster drum and toss in the 10-20 nickels. The coins help to crush the buds and to push the sift through the screen. Then place the drum in the box and turn it on. The goal here is quantity over quality, I usually get a yield of 40-50% in dry sift and the remainder in the drums should be just stems and coarse plant matter. In the end you'll be left with a mix of gold and green dry sift that will be used for the wash in the next step. Using cleaner dry sift I've found just results in a lower net yield, no difference in end quality.

    Once it's all collected and weighed I place up to 25g into each mason jar and place in the freezer along with jars with 250ml of ethanol to be mixed with each one during the wash phase. I do this even for larger batches since it minimizes the time it takes to filter it through the buchner funnel, every second counts here. Again I wait at least 12-24 hours before the next step. I also put saran wrap on the jars prior to capping them to limit the chance of the foam seals on the caps from being exposed to the alcohol just in case it's an issue.

    Wash:

    Setup your work space so that everything is secure with no risk of anything tipping over. Ideally get a lab stand for the buchner funnel flask or at the very least use a secure non-slip surface. Get your "fast" paper filter in place and pre-wet it with ethanol, you want to filter as quickly as possible to limit chlorophyll leaching out.

    For the buchner funnel I suggest hooking it up to your vac chamber under full vac (pump disconnected) and use that instead of a hand pump. That way you can activate and hold the pressure with a flip of the valve. Don't hook up your pump directly, it may be too strong and the alcohol fumes are bad for it.

    Start the clock and pour your chilled ethanol into the jar of dry sift jar, cover with the lid and shake hard for 45 seconds. Then pour it out into the buchner funnel with a pre-wetted "fast" paper lab filter and activate the vacuum. You'll want to separate the dry sift from the ethanol under 2-3 minutes before chlorophyll starts leaching out and turns your solution green. If some gets in, you can try leaving it at room temp for a few hours and/or exposing it to sunlight and it should make it golden again. After I finish filtering, I re-filter the solution once or twice more using a few stacked "slow" filters, rinsing the containers with alcohol each time to limit cross-contamination. I've tried doing a second wash but just ended up with a dark green solution that never improved. Might be worth it for edibles or a tincture though but it's not for me.

    Evaporation:

    I lined the flat vacuum chamber with an OilSlick Sheet so I can make use of the PID controlled heat pad for consistent temperatures which also makes switching to purging easier. I cover it with a 25 micron sheet and blow a fan over it at low heat (under 100F) until most of the alcohol is gone.

    Purge:

    It's pretty much ready for purging once the oil stops moving when you tilt the container, small pools are fine thanks to the vac. Fold in the edges of the sheet inside the container, put on the top and pull a full vacuum. It may muffin and bubble up violently so keep an eye on it while the vac is running to make sure it doesn't reach the top. I only run the vac briefly since I don't have a cold trap and just seal it off to purge with the pump off. Around 6 hours seems to be enough to get it to the right state for the next step, purge longer if you want a smaller muffin. By then the pools should have spread out and you should be able to touch it quickly without it sticking to your finger.

    Fold and Flip:

    Now you want to make a smaller slab that's easier to flip and to transfer it to a fresh OilSlick Sheet. Take it out of the chamber and lay it out flat on a table. Then fold it over onto itself, press down on it and then place on a large re-usable ice pack for a few seconds and finally rip the top sheet off. Keep pressing/freezing/ripping until it's uniform slab of the size of your choosing. Once done, place a fresh sheet on top and flip the slab onto it and place back in the chamber for the final purge stage. If the slab is too thick, it will spread out by itself so keep that in mind.

    Final Purge:

    Let it warm up in the chamber at around 90-100F for around 30 minutes and then pull a full vacuum and run the pump for a few minutes before leaving it under vacuum. The slab should muffin too so watch the height and release pressure if it nears the top. Flip the slab every 6-12 hours until there are no large bubbles forming or 48-72 hours total under vac. Towards the end I'll do some test dabs, once the harshness is diminished and the flavour starts to really come out then I know it's ready.

    End Product:

    If you did everything correctly you should end up with a beautiful, clear slab of shatter with that won't budder up over time. Most of my yields using good quality indoor buds have hovered around 15%.

    Some recent Jean Guy QWET
    [​IMG]

    Jack Herer QWET
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Hyphy

    Hyphy Karma

    Messages:
    177
    Beautiful shatter you have there. Thanks for sharing!
     
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  3. getsoutalive

    getsoutalive Active Member

    Messages:
    29
    Solid tek.

    Not sold on the tumbler except to help offset the cost of the ethanol. Which "The Source" should help with.

    Two problems with it. Not sure you are really getting everything off the plant matter into your keif. And the keif is very "dirty". This is why your filtering is so critical.

    IMO, if you have the ethanol for it, wash the whole plant, skip the tumbler part, would be washing the leftovers anyway, just wash it up front. Quick filter through a kitchen strainer for the primary separation and don't deal with the fines that will be produced by the tumbler.
     
  4. Monsoon

    Monsoon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,599
    Location:
    Canada
    My yields tend to range from 13-16% starting weight in bud which is similar to what I was getting from 2-wash QWISO before so I'm probably not losing too much. I always run it long enough it ensure it's completely broken up, the screen in 145u so the vast majority of actives will get through. I pre-ordered The Source so once it gets here I'll try splitting a batch and run one through the tumbler and one with frozen bud so I can see if there's any major differences. One thing the tumbler is good for is that I find it makes it a bit easier to process larger amounts at once (4oz+) and it's a lot less messy in the process. But they are pricey and add an extra step/day to the process so it really depends on the needs/means of the extractor, luckily with cannabis there's a lot of latitude there.
     
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  5. Hyphy

    Hyphy Karma

    Messages:
    177
    Does your shatter act like glass, pull and snap, something else?
     
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  6. Monsoon

    Monsoon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,599
    Location:
    Canada
    Probably closer to glass on most runs. Sometimes it will be more like pull and snap right out of the vac but becomes a more solid shatter after a few days at 30-40% humidity. Doesn't auto budder, I have some that's been kept in a ziplock bag at room temp for 3 months and it's still solid and clear.
     
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  7. Hyphy

    Hyphy Karma

    Messages:
    177
    That sounds nice. I don't have a vac so I air dry with a fan and can get it to a pretty stable consistency, but once I take it away from the fan it turns too gooey for my liking. Really considering the 'the source', but will wait for lots of FC feedback on it before pulling the trigger. How much did your vac system cost?
     
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  8. Monsoon

    Monsoon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,599
    Location:
    Canada
    You're going to want to at least heat purge it after it's evaporated, you'll get better consistency as a result too. I personally would get a vac system before The Source, it will vastly improve your product as well as making it safer. I went with the 3 Quart flat chamber from BestValueVacs with a flat heater and the current cost is US$300.
     
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  9. IchiBanCrafter

    IchiBanCrafter Member

    Messages:
    95
    Thats a great post, thank you for sharing. I have a question concerning your point about putting the wash in the sunlight to get rid of the green. How long have you left a wash in the sun previously? How green can it get before this doesnt work? I have been under the impression that sunlight has fast destructive impact on THC, but in your experience using this process it seems that might not be the case?
     
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  10. Monsoon

    Monsoon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,599
    Location:
    Canada
    Direct sunlight probably isn't necessary, I find just heating the containers a bit above room temp (~100F) seems to do just fine, usually clears up the colour within 12 hours or so. So far the only one that didn't work was a second wash which came out dark green. I've had some pretty green tinted first washes that I thought would never improve yet amazingly looked fine the next day (I'll get comparison pics next time it happens). With my setup, the time from first contact with alcohol to through first pass through the buchner filter is only 2-3 minutes max so that limits it from getting too bad. I usually start seeing more green liquid drip through the filter after the 2 minute mark.
     
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  11. hardboiledfrog

    hardboiledfrog tinkerer

    Messages:
    61
    Stellar post and a well executed method. Thanks for sharing!
     
  12. heady blunts

    heady blunts Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    67
    SSVUN~YAH and Monsoon like this.
  13. Monsoon

    Monsoon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,599
    Location:
    Canada
    Already on top of that, I ended up buying an ExtractCraft Source awhile back, the company is still trying to resolve some issues with it but I'll hopefully have it up and running sometime soon.
     
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  14. heady blunts

    heady blunts Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    67
    ooooooooooo that is very neat. i hope it ends up working as advertised!

    the evap portion is definitely my least favorite part of makin etoh extractions. it would be so nice to set it and forget it haha!

    does it rotate or agitate the vessel with the ethanol in any way? i had been sorta daydreaming about getting myself a magnetic heated stir plate one of these days, but this incorporates reclaim and vac purge in one unit, pretty sweet.
     
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  15. Monsoon

    Monsoon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,599
    Location:
    Canada
    No it just uses heat and the vacuum to evaporate it but even when they fix the overheating issue it should be able to evaporate 500ml of alcohol in a few hours so stir plate isn't really needed.
     
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  16. IchiBanCrafter

    IchiBanCrafter Member

    Messages:
    95
    Update on my new units. Running solid between 101-104f for whole process. I ran it dry for extended period and took a while for heat to build up to 125 but it is not meant to run dry I suppose. Making some nice terpy flower runs will post vid/photos soon as I get some equipment
     
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  17. IchiBanCrafter

    IchiBanCrafter Member

    Messages:
    95
    Couple questions if you don't mind. What vacuum pressure do you find most suitable, full vacuum? Have you tried it with higher vacuum and no additional heat?
     
  18. Monsoon

    Monsoon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,599
    Location:
    Canada
    I'm assuming we're talking about traditional vac chambers and not The Source. I always do a full vacuum or at least as much as you can with a single stage pump (2-stage can be too much). Due to noise it's usually only for a few minutes at a time to get it to muffin or pop bubbles after a while. I don't get as much reaction at lower temps, what I've been doing lately is after flipping I'll bump the (infrared) temp of the slab to 105-110 briefly to pull the vacuum and allow it to expand as much as possible and then drop the temp back down to 90-95F for the remaining 12 hours or so. That way it's only exposed to the higher temps briefly but it can expand more than if you pulled the vac at a lower temp. As far as actual terp loss difference, I have no idea but mine is still pretty tasty. I find QWET doesn't have the strongest flavour of the extract methods but in the end it usually tastes like the flower smelt for the most part and I prefer the absolute shatter result than more tasty but super waxy BHO. Variety is nice though so I get BHO now and then but I usually prefer my personal QWET even at the same cost.

    Might be worth experimenting though, not sure if room temp (whatever it may be this time of year) is enough to properly purge the alcohol out. The lower the temp, the longer you need to purge, I'm already up to 3 days with heat so without would be much longer I figure.

    Have you tried using a buchner funnel yet? I think they're under $100 on ebay or abouts, if you're doing dry ice for reduction you'll need to to filter it fast on the first filtering pass to get the bulk of the kief. First pass I use a Fast filter over a mesh to keep it from clogging (but let's more shit through). I can usually filter up to 500ml through 25-30g of dirty dry sift in under 2 minutes. Second and third pass I just stack 3-4 Slow and Medium filters to make sure it's crystal clear.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2016
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  19. IchiBanCrafter

    IchiBanCrafter Member

    Messages:
    95
    I am working with a normal single stage pump. I just got my buchner funnel setup yesterday and going to start working with the next couple of days. I appreciate your tips. Im going to keep messing around and come back when I have something decent to share. Thanks again
     
  20. IchiBanCrafter

    IchiBanCrafter Member

    Messages:
    95
    Thanks for the help in getting my shatter skills to the next level. Here is the blog post I made which borrows from you quite a bit and also credits you with your contribution. Additionally, I included a link to this thread which I assume is ok with you and may bring more traffic. If you would rather I don't include something please let me know and I will adjust accordingly.
    https://extractcrafter.com/2016/07/20/good-shatter-from-bad-trim-with-the-source/
     
    Monsoon likes this.
  21. Monsoon

    Monsoon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,599
    Location:
    Canada
    Great job on the guide and the shatter! Link and credit is fine and appreciated.

    If the hand pump is a pain to use with the buchner funnel, you can also pull a vacuum on the chamber and then hook that up to the flask. Much easier and you'll get consistent pressure until it's all filtered through.

    The sunlight trick for chlorophyll actually came from Skunkpharm but I've found just leaving it in the cupboard or a warm spot is enough to improve the colour.

    I finally got some comparison pics too! My last wash I did some amazing smelling Blue Cheese which ended up a bit greenish at the end. The first pictures were taken a few hours after the wash and had already started to improve a bit. Not too bad looking but you should be able to make out the greenish hue.

    [​IMG]

    I took these a day later under the same lighting conditions after sitting in my cupboard at around 26C. Definite improvement.

    [​IMG]

    I've seen slightly worse clear up fine but if it's opaque and not just tinted green I think you might be out of luck. Worse case if it doesn't dab great you can always use it in edibles.
     
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  22. IchiBanCrafter

    IchiBanCrafter Member

    Messages:
    95
    thanks, good to know. I just went through and cleaned up a bunch of cannabis induced writing errors in the blog...... Thanks again for the help!
     
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  23. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    969
    Oldie, but goodie. GO TEAM QWET! :rockon:

    Believe finally getting similar results. Apologies for poor photography.

    [​IMG]

    Easy to work with, candy apple consistency. Flavorful and smooth. Sweet Seeds Cream Caramel, the low-yield pheno. :mad:

    Found this even older post about making crumble by @Stiggy. So, tried vacuum purging for seven plus days using faucet aspirator and food storage gear.

    Basically, used above method, being very careful to disturb as little as possible when flipping to avoid premature buddering. Initially, purged 24 hours before attempting to fold and flip. Okay to use Oil Slick parchment sheets? (Have lots.) Paper develops some clear spotting, but otherwise fine. Also, transfer to a simple origami cup made from this paper as alcohol solution and evaporate with exhaust fan at 32C. (Hate scraping.) Flipped every 24 hours.

    After seven days, had a few days travel. So, wrapped closed FoodSaver, and left on grow-room shelf (~27C). This was the pleasant surprise - especially after short T-break. :spliff:

    Also inspired by @IchiBanCrafter's dry ice blog, tried low-temp (~15C) deep freezer. Good results, but different. Found traditional two, three-minute washes work best, doing the second wash immediately after the first. (Replace mason jar lid with screen for quick transfer.) This gets ~90% with the remaining 10% elutable with a third wash that produces a dark sappy, shoe-polish consistency. Poor flavor - saving this fraction for eventual further refinement.

    FC is a veritable tome of knowledge, indeed! :science:
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
  24. Ambarrosin

    Ambarrosin New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Why freeze dry flowers and then drysift them? Why not drysift the dry flowers ( not freeze) ? Or in case you argument why use them freeze, why not use fresh frozen flowers?

    I like your tek but i will use dry flowers to make dry sift , and probably make one Run with not frozen dry sift, and other with frozen dry sift.

    But only use dry flowers for make dry sift. I dont understand why freeze flowers and then dry sift them.
     
  25. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    969
    To minimize water pickup in extraction. Never tried fresh frozen. Might be okay if flowers stay frozen. Most bake cured flowers to remove residual water, but freeze-drying preserves terps without introducing a toasted flavor.

    Freeze-drying is easy to do and preserves freshly harvested botanicals extremely well. Just cracked a container of veg fan leaves (for butter), and savored the minty scent of young cannabis. It also avoids any concern over mold.

    Also, don't dry-sift. Maybe to save ethanol? Another way is to use ethanol for two runs before evaporating/purging.

    A few recent improvements. Using a big ESPRO French coffee press for QWET. Handles 30g at a time. Reduces time draining and stays ice cold. First two washes both produce clear, straw-colored eluate. The third is much better than before, but still not good enough. Probably eliminate that step and leave it for butter. <10% left at that point.

    PTFE sheet, as per OP, works better than silicone. FPE is kind of interesting, but shatter sticks to it sometimes, IME.

    A second vacuum marinator imploded, nearly ruining four grams of concentrate. Gonna go with stainless steel and thick acrylic from now on.
     
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