The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

HellsWindStaff

Dharma Initiate
I'm truly not up to date on it, but IMO I don't think it was rigged in Nevada but I think the perceived favoritism of Clinton by the powers that be boiled over with the Bernie supporters.

This is all opinion I'm not well informed but from the little I read on it, didn't seem rigged, but they did seem frustrated
 
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thisperson

Ruler of all things person
Two key points that are missing from that fair and balanced article.

The woman being appointed with super powers. I keep hearing how she was voted in at a time when most bernie delegates were still being registered.

And there was a floor voice vote for Yay and Nay that in the video you clearly hear the Bernie people have it, but she overrules them. I forgot what the importance of that vote was and I can't find it in my history on youtube anymore. Pretty sure it got deleted. But what it showed was that democracy was not allowed to be carried out.

God it was a clusterfuck. I think they just got fed up of the underhanded tactics. What's to say the sanders delegates weren't just dropped. That's happened before. I recall people saying their registration was randomly switched this election. A woman posted proof in NY of her registration being signed by somebody else when she had them verify her signature with her old registration image.

I really like this video.


Edit: Okay so after some more digging I found a video of the incident I was talking about above. The one with the yay or nay vote.

Please see this to understand what happened in Nevada. It really is the crux of the matter.

 
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Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
You did not reply to the interesting points posted about the Nevada Primary.

Also, there was active voter suppression. How do you explain Arizona's reduction of polling places in certain counties and New York's dropping of 100k Brooklyn voters.

He did better in open primaries than in closed primaries, and if they had all been open primaries (MORE CITIZENS VOTING) instead of closed primaries (Just democrats) then he would have won. That simple. He pulls republicans and independents.

As can be attested by the polling comparison of Hillary vs Trump and Bernie vs Trump. he wins by a larger margin because they defect.

I'm convinced the FBI has been preparing us for Hillary's indictment. I just don't know if it will happen before or after the Democratic Convention.

Oh yeah and I don't know what you call the reduction of debates. I think it helped rig the process. The Clinton name has brand recognition. They will win more votes compared to an unknown. It's that simple.

I think you should look at the nevada primary through a different POV Gunky. I have no clue how you got to that conclusion, but everything I've read suggests it was rigged. If you need further evidence than what was posted above, look at this: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016...thuggish-power-grab-at-nevada-convention.html

The chairwoman was given special powers to decide the convention. That's undemocratic and not something I would ever condone done in my presence. Once the Bernie people found out what happened of course they were outraged.
All systems are designed, dare I say "rigged" to operate to their best advantage, some more than others, like this one, rendering sayings like "good guys finish last" cliche' and contentious.
 

Joel W.

Deplorable Basement Dweller
Accessory Maker
DNC-Lift-600-LI.jpg
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
@thisperson You are convinced the FBI is preparing us for a Hillary indictment? I haven't felt that way. Do you know something that we don't know? I guess time will tell.

I still think that something might materialize regarding the emails and some other issues that Hillary has. I haven't gotten the impression that the FBI is preparing us for anything. I worry about all the sexual advances that Bill has had in the past and how something could blow up about that. There's just so much floating out there.

Trump is saying Hillary wants to get rid of the second amendment which most folks know is a bunch of bull.

It comes down to likability factor instead of real issues of the day such as global warming. I want to have some kind of a healthcare system that covers everybody. I don't want abortions to become illegal. I also don't want to be dragged into a war.

Bernie fits the needs that I have in a president. If not Bernie I will settle for Hillary.
 
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Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
@thisperson You are convinced the FBI is preparing us for a Hillary indictment? I haven't felt that way. Do you know something that we don't know? I guess time will tell.

I still think that something might materialize regarding the emails and some other issues that Hillary has. I haven't gotten the impression that the FBI is preparing us for anything. I worry about all the sexual advances that Bill has had in the past and how something could blow up about that. There's just so much floating out there.

Trump is saying Hillary wants to get rid of the second amendment which most folks know is a bunch of bull.

It comes down to likability factor instead of real issues of the day such as global warming. I want to have some kind of a healthcare system that covers everybody. I don't want abortions to become illegal. I also don't want to be dragged into a war.

Bernie fits the needs that I have in a president. If not Bernie I will settle for Hillary.
You really see things so clearly... consistently!!! Why are you not representing the mass media?!!!
 

grokit

well-worn member
The struggle right now is whether they can get hillary to testify under oath afaik. A few of her state dept. deputies/subordinates have already been deposed, and even more importantly a judge just recently granted "discovery" of her private email system; so there is a lot on the line for both hillary and obama.

The nevada thing has devolved into a war of words, with msm parrots lying about flying chairs that never happened, while conveniently ignoring the clinton supporter arrested for assaulting a sanders supporter.

:myday::horse::popcorn:
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
With all those unknowns out there about Hillary the DNC was a little too a head of the game to offer Hillary as their main candidate and pretty much ignored Bernie. They may have shot themselves in the foot.

I thought Hillary was all done testifying.
 

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
My unqualified prediction is that the FBI/Hillary email debacle with dissipate like a cloud on a summer day... just too nebulous to weed out the overt transgressions. All that will evolve from the controversy will be more clarified security policies to guide future activity.
 

grokit

well-worn member
^ I think I read that these policies are already in place, because of past transgressions at the state dept. and that's why it's such a big deal this time. Nobody trusts anyone else in washington not even allies :uhoh:

I agree that wassrman/dnc has gone to far this time, you would think they would try tact but no...

Guess what's trending on google, facebook and twitter: #writeberniein

https://www.google.com/search?q=#writeberniein
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=177114419044869&story_fbid=890707517685552
https://twitter.com/hashtag/writeberniein

Ci_yagQXIAE5J-q.jpg

May 23 and june 22 seem to be big dates :myday::rockon:
 

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
^ I think I read that these policies are already in place, because of past transgressions at the state dept. and that's why it's such a big deal this time. Nobody trusts anyone else in washington not even allies :uhoh:

I agree that wassrman/dnc has gone to far this time, you would think they would try tact but no...

Guess what's trending on google, facebook and twitter: #writeberniein

https://www.google.com/search?q=#writeberniein
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=177114419044869&story_fbid=890707517685552
https://twitter.com/hashtag/writeberniein

Ci_yagQXIAE5J-q.jpg

May 23 and june 22 seem to be big dates :myday::rockon:
Unfortunately, it seems, the playing field is so severely sloped as to render the polls irrelevant.
 

grokit

well-worn member
Unfortunately, it seems, the playing field is so severely sloped as to render the polls irrelevant.
Not only that but I have a feeling that by election time we'll all be scratching our collective heads--who's the corporate warmonger, the democrat? That makes trump the fascist peacenick that can save amerika wha..?

:hmm::razz::freak::haw::uhh::whoa::mental::disgust:
 
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Silat

When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.
My unqualified prediction is that the FBI/Hillary email debacle with dissipate like a cloud on a summer day... just too nebulous to weed out the overt transgressions. All that will evolve from the controversy will be more clarified security policies to guide future activity.

Word:)
"At the time Ms. Clinton was Secretary of State there was no prohibition against the Secretary of State having a private email server. In fact, no Secretary of State before Ms. Clinton had a government email account.

None of the emails on the Secretary's personal account were classified at the time they were sent or received. That is not in dispute. There is an on-going controversy between various agencies of what ought to be classified in retrospect as the material is released to the public by the State Department, but that does not change the fact that none of it was classified at the time. In fact, one of the several emails at issue actually says the word "unclassified" in the upper left hand corner and can still be accessed by the general public on the State Department web site.

Finally, no one has ever pointed to an instance where the fact that something was on her server instead of a government server had any negative consequences whatsoever.

There is no issue here, period.

And as for the Benghazi "affair," none of the many investigations that have already been completed concerning the events surrounding the death of the American Ambassador to Libya in the Benghazi attack has found a shred of evidence that that Hillary Clinton did anything wrong whatsoever leading up to or in response to that attack."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-creamer/out-of-touch-punditry-sho_b_8029910.html
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Hillary Clinton probably knew she would run for president. She needed to make sure everything that she did was beyond questionable. She used poor judgement on her part or whoever decided the home email server for her. She said she didn't know a lot about computers and such.

I'm hoping that their charity, the Clinton Foundation doesn't have some shady dealings. That also needs to be squeaky clean. The republicans will make something small look like a major thing. It may or may not be, sometimes it's hard for the regular person to know.

Same with Trump. He needs everything squeaky clean too but it seems like most of the rules don't apply to him. We know he has many skeletons in his closets.

I'm glad that Bernie is staying in the race. What do the democrats have to lose at this point, except the presidency. With all the supposed popularity that Trump has - or does he?

The media has been an important factor in Trump's popularity and shows the public just what it wants them to see.
I had read that Trump had his inner circle study what he needed to do to win the presidency back in 2012.
Capitalize on the poor and downtrodden and win them over - whip them all up into an angry frenzy. Turn one race against the other, then head to the finish line with everyone else lost in the dust. The Republican Party has no other choice but to welcome Mr. Trump with open arms whether they like him or not. This of course is my own interpretation.

SNL really nailed it with their opening skit. Larry David is back as Bernie. Love Fred Armeson too, he's the host.
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
New data backs argument that Trump has not expanded the GOP
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Jon Ward
Senior Political Correspondent
May 22, 2016
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View photos
(AFP Photo/Eduardo Munoz Alvarez)
There is more evidence now casting doubt on Donald Trump’s claim that he is expanding the Republican Party.

Additional data from the GOP primary shows that increased turnout in several primary states was driven largely by already-active Republican voters who have historically skipped primaries and voted only in general elections.

Trump has boasted that he is drawing new voters to the political process and to the GOP. And the theory of how he might overcome the Democrats’ growing demographic advantage in key swing states where white voters are no longer dominant majorities rests on the assumption that nontraditional voters, many from the white working class, have been flocking to the polls for the first time in their lives in order to cast their votes for Trump.

Primary election statistics collected by Politico this week first cast doubt on that claim. And now new data – voter files combined with field polling from these states collected by a Republican data analysis firm that worked for the presidential campaign of Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla. – lend more weight to the conclusion that Trump’s candidacy is not game-changing, or particularly well-positioned for the general election.

There is a significant caveat to all this, an unknown that can’t be measured. Even if Trump’s support has come from traditional Republican voters, is the fact that so many individuals who don’t usually vote in primaries did so predictive of a wave of entirely new voters who will come to the polls in November? It’s possible. The general election is a far bigger event than any one state’s primary, so participation is easier for voters who don’t follow politics as closely as those who vote in primaries.

And of course, the other significant question is whether likely Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton can turn out as many voters as President Obama did in 2008 and 2012. This, also, is a big hurdle.

What is clear is, the data so far do indicate that Trump has not yet significantly grown the Republican Party. There are small numbers of new voters who came to the polls this year, and in one state — New Hampshire — that might be enough to help Trump win. But in several other swing states — Virginia, Ohio and Michigan — if the Democrats can reassemble the Obama coalition, Trump’s new support is not enough to win.

0ptimus , the data and analytics firm that worked for Rubio, focused its analysis on a few key states.

In Virginia, there was a stunning turnout in the Republican primary on March 1. More than three times the number of primary voters in 2012 came to the polls, a total of 1,025,452.

Of that total, 18.6 percent, or 190,734, were regular primary voters. But they were swamped by voters who usually only participate in general elections. That group made up 72.1 percent of the Republican primary electorate in Virginia. Younger voters who weren’t eligible for previous elections and those who moved into the state made up 3.6 percent.

Only 5.7 percent of the more than 1 million primary voters were new voters. That’s a total of 58,450 new voters.

To put that in perspective, look at the 2012 general election. In 2012 in Virginia, President Obama defeated Republican nominee Mitt Romney by almost 150,000 votes. Obama received 1,971,820 votes to Romney’s 1,822,522.

So if you add the nearly 60,000 votes to a Republican nominee, but the Democrat recreates Obama’s turnout — which, again, is not a sure thing — then the Republican is still 90,000 votes short.

And keep in mind that the Virginia primary was one of the most closely contested in the GOP race. Trump won the state, but with only one-third of the vote. He got 356,840 votes but Rubio, Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, Ohio Gov. John Kasich and retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson received a combined 657,080 votes.

Many of those Republican voters will turn out for Trump against Clinton even if they opposed him in the primary. But some number won’t.

To go further, Optimus looked at the results of almost 4,000 telephone surveys they did around the time of the primary. Using those responses, they built a model of the Virginia electorate, and found that of the 72 percent of voters who were new to the primary but usually voted in the general election, “the vast majority” were voters who were likely to support a Republican candidate already.

This confirmed that the “new” primary voters were almost all regular Republican voters who usually just cast ballots in a general election in the fall. They are not first-time voters or traditionally Democratic-leaning individuals who crossed over.

The same dynamic occurred when 0ptimus looked at Ohio. The Buckeye State saw 1,988,960 people come to the polls for the Republican primary this year, up from 1,213,879 in 2012 and 1,095,917 in 2008. Of those, some 53.6 percent were regular primary voters, and 36.8 percent were regular general election voters. Only 5.9 percent were new voters, yielding a total of roughly 118,000 votes.

Romney lost Ohio in 2012 by 166,000 votes, so while 118,000 new voters would get Trump closer to winning if Clinton maintains the Obama number, it wouldn’t get him over the top.

The same scenario played out in Michigan, where there were a lot of new voters this year, about 119,000. Even so, Romney lost that state in 2012 by 450,000 votes.

In New Hampshire, there were 37,000 new voters, and Romney only lost by 39,000 in 2012. That was the one state surveyed by 0ptimus where Trump’s primary election numbers indicated a better chance of winning there than Romney had in 2012. But flipping New Hampshire into the Republican column would not be nearly enough to win the 270 Electoral College votes required to secure the presidency.

The authors of the paper from 0ptimus concluded: “The increase in presidential primary turnout should give little comfort to the GOP as it looks ahead to November’s general election.”
 

thisperson

Ruler of all things person
@thisperson You are convinced the FBI is preparing us for a Hillary indictment? I haven't felt that way. Do you know something that we don't know? I guess time will tell.

I still think that something might materialize regarding the emails and some other issues that Hillary has. I haven't gotten the impression that the FBI is preparing us for anything. I worry about all the sexual advances that Bill has had in the past and how something could blow up about that. There's just so much floating out there.

Trump is saying Hillary wants to get rid of the second amendment which most folks know is a bunch of bull.

It comes down to likability factor instead of real issues of the day such as global warming. I want to have some kind of a healthcare system that covers everybody. I don't want abortions to become illegal. I also don't want to be dragged into a war.

Bernie fits the needs that I have in a president. If not Bernie I will settle for Hillary.

I'm mostly going off of this, where some FBI head dude explicitly called it an investigation, not an inquiry. And there was some dude who appeared in a news piece, forgot his name, but for him to appear in a news article there had to be prior approval by the FBI. Really wish I could remember his name. He was a criminal element I think, that's why there had to be FBI approval for the interview.


Word:)
"At the time Ms. Clinton was Secretary of State there was no prohibition against the Secretary of State having a private email server. In fact, no Secretary of State before Ms. Clinton had a government email account.

None of the emails on the Secretary's personal account were classified at the time they were sent or received. That is not in dispute. There is an on-going controversy between various agencies of what ought to be classified in retrospect as the material is released to the public by the State Department, but that does not change the fact that none of it was classified at the time. In fact, one of the several emails at issue actually says the word "unclassified" in the upper left hand corner and can still be accessed by the general public on the State Department web site.

Finally, no one has ever pointed to an instance where the fact that something was on her server instead of a government server had any negative consequences whatsoever.

There is no issue here, period.

And as for the Benghazi "affair," none of the many investigations that have already been completed concerning the events surrounding the death of the American Ambassador to Libya in the Benghazi attack has found a shred of evidence that that Hillary Clinton did anything wrong whatsoever leading up to or in response to that attack."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-creamer/out-of-touch-punditry-sho_b_8029910.html

As I understand it you're mostly correct. The classified information wasn't classified at the time. But that's not why they are investigating her. You can find videos on youtube of foreign states wanting pieces of legislation passed or contractors wanting a contract. They also happened to donate to HIllary's fund and their wanted action was taken. The donations came in before or after the action, but what they are trying to prove is if there was any quid pro quo. Were favors traded. If they can find evidence in the emails that favors were explicitly traded, she's fucked. She also happened to delete a lot of the emails, but I've heard about some hacker who got Bill's doodles and a lot of other things. Guccifer. He got extradited by the FBI recently, I heard.
 

Adobewan

Well-Known Member
There is only so much of this voter suppression bullshit that one can take. This is the sort of thing that will push Democratic voters to sit out the election, and worse yet, some to vote for Trump in order to vote against her.

I've asked in previous posts why such an accomplished, experienced, qualified candidate is consistently under investigation, often accused, and universally disliked, but now, why does this wonder woman need the DNC's criminal bias to steal our votes?

The "in our face" corruption is disgusting.
I wonder if our die-hard, Hillary supporting brethren can understand the possible end result.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
The Plate Tectonics Theory of This Election

One of the more persistent assumptions about present-day presidential elections is that they are primarily base elections. One way of expressing what this means is simply to quote from a David Atkins piece from this past weekend.

General elections are won by turning out the people who already agree with you ideologically, but only show up to vote every other election when they really feel inspired to, but otherwise feel that politics is a waste of time that doesn’t change anything dramatically [or] affect their daily lives.

Another way of phrasing this is that presidential elections are won by motivating the people in your base who need some external motivation to show up and vote. You can do this by getting them excited or you can do it by making them afraid or you can do it by making personal contact with them, or some combination, but you’re really not trying to persuade anyone to change their ideological point of view.

I think if you look at the last four presidential elections, you can take this analysis and plug it in to each of them individually to see how the parties performed. And I think this has some explanatory power.

Going back to 2000, the election was so close that you can plausibly argue that turning any of these dials just slightly could have changed the outcome. I mean, setting aside the fatal design of the Palm Beach County butterfly ballot, and the votes cast for Ralph Nader, and the strategies employed in the recount, and the Supreme Court’s decision to intervene decisively on Bush’s side, it’s possible to envision Gore winning simply by being a little more exciting or by instilling a little more fear in Democrats or by having done a slightly better job of voter contact. As is always the case when an incumbent president is leaving after eight years, the opposing party was more motivated to vote in 2000, and Gore needed to do just a little more to counteract that.

In 2004, it’s easy to see that the Republicans did an outstanding job of getting out their base in Ohio, and that turned out to be decisive. This was done in part by using the threat of gay marriage as a cudgel that aroused fear in social conservatives. Anti-gay measures were placed on the ballot, and that alone may have made the difference.

The two Obama elections were a bit different from the two Bush elections, especially the first one in 2008. In 2008, Barack Obama did a good job of actually converting many Republicans. You could see this most visibly in some of the endorsements he got from people like Colin Powell, and the Eisenhower grandkids, and William F. Buckley’s son. But the phenomenon was much more widespread, as the Bush administration ended so ignominiously that it was impossible for many people to ignore its failures. McCain and Palin were also poor campaigners whose performance was hard to defend. In the end, I’d argue that Obama’s superior organization and voter contact wound up padding his victory by adding some states, like Indiana and North Carolina, to his column, but he mainly won by winning the argument and not simply by better mobilizing a preexisting base.

When he sought reelection in 2012, it was more of a reversion to the 2000 and 2004 style election, only this time with the Democrat coming out on top. The main difference was that the election wasn’t nearly as close as the earlier ones were, but that was partly explained by Romney doing a comparatively poor job of motivating his base.

In all of these elections, though, the loser was able to top 45% of the vote. McCain-Palin did the worst, managing only 45.63%, and that looks to a lot of people like a hard floor.

But is it really a hard floor?

Think about when we began talking about Red States and Blue States. That dichotomy wouldn’t have made any sense in the 1980’s. New Jersey voted for Poppy Bush in 1988. In 1984, Reagan won 49 states, losing only Minnesota and the District of Columbia.

In a way, it’s unfortunate that Stanley Greenberg profiled the Democrats of Macomb County, Michigan that year, dubbing them Reagan Democrats. It’s a shame not because it was bad analysis. It was insightful analysis that still has explanatory power today. But it wasn’t just socially conservative, patriotic autoworkers who rejected Walter Mondale and the Democratic Party in 1984. It was the people of Massachusetts and Rhode Island, perhaps the two most reliably Democratic states not named Hawai’i.

Whatever you thought about him or think about him in retrospect, Ronald Reagan won the argument against the Democrats in 1980 and, especially, in 1984. He didn’t win by exciting more preexisting Republicans, and he didn’t win simply by making people afraid of his opponents. He won by creating Republicans who had previously been Democrats, and not just among white working class union voters. He also won the youth vote, with reverberations that are still being felt today.

Now, some people will argue that things are different today. The parties are more ideologically stable and predictable, and voters are much less likely to split their tickets. The way people get their news is different, with more folks getting a steady supply of right-wing ideology and little else. Demographics have changed, too, and populations have sorted. These factors, in combination, could provide a higher floor for each party so that they can lose the argument and still be assured of getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 45% of the vote.

I don’t discount that argument at all. I think it would be very hard for anyone to win 49 states in our current political environment, no matter how obviously superior they were or how blatantly incompetent their opponent. But that doesn’t mean that every general election is a base election. And I suspect, although it is not yet certain, that 2016 will not be a base election.

The way I like to envision this is as if the two parties are like tectonic plates. If you think about the San Andreas Fault, it’s made of a Pacific Plate and a North American plate that are locked together. Most of the time, the intersection is stable. When the pressure builds up sufficiently, there can be some slippage along the fault line, but this usually only moves things an inch or two at a time. Once in a while, though, and precisely when is hard to predict, there is enough pressure built up to cause a major slippage and a large earthquake.

Back in the 1960’s through the 1980’s, the plates weren’t really locked at all, but were gliding all over the place as the parties did a slow motion realignment. But, starting in the 1990’s, they melded together and we’ve been in this 45-45 political universe ever since.

When you look at the gridlock in Congress and the resulting dissatisfaction of the American electorate, this is analogous to the pressure that builds up in a stable system.

I don’t want to take this analogy beyond where it can go, but what’s happened in the Republican Party with the nomination of Donald Trump is clearly a sign of weakening. For these two plates to stay stable, they need to maintain roughly equal strength, and if one them starts to crumble, there should be the possibility (even the likelihood) of major slippage along the fault line. And that’s when a political earthquake can happen.

I’ve been looking for signs of this for a couple of years now, long before Trump came onto the scene. And I’ve identified a lot of warning signs along the way, some of which have already resulted in some significant quakes like Eric Cantor losing a primary and John Boehner giving up the Speaker’s gavel.

So, in summary, I am not convinced that this election will be won by “turning out the people who already agree with you ideologically.” I think there is a strong possibility that this election will be won more decisively than any election since 1988. But, like predicting earthquakes, this is an imprecise science. The quake I’m seeing could come in 2020. The plates could slip in the opposite direction from what I’m expecting. After all, there are weaknesses and fissures developing on the Democrats’ side, too.

What I feel confident about is that the pressure has built up to such a degree that a major quake is in our near future. Gridlock cannot stand forever without one side winning the argument with the American people.

by Martin Longman
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Who would have thought a year ago that Trump would be the republican nominee and be tied with Hillary Clinton in the polls. I haven't taken a poll because I screen my calls. There are many other people that haven't been included in a poll. I wonder how accurate they are?

Trump needs to be pinned down on the fact that he hasn't shown his past tax statements. They can't let him weasel out of answering questions about the issues either.
 

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
Who would have thought a year ago that Trump would be the republican nominee and be tied with Hillary Clinton in the polls. I haven't taken a poll because I screen my calls. There are many other people that haven't been included in a poll. I wonder how accurate they are?

Trump needs to be pinned down on the fact that he hasn't shown his past tax statements. They can't let him weasel out of answering questions about the issues either.
You bring up an interesting question: what differentiates individuals who respond to polls, and does that differentiation have bearing on their inclination for choice? In any case, those inclined to answer polls (e.g., telephone cold call) constitute a very select sample vs the at-large national pool, I would think... Polls, not unlike statistics, can be finagled to suit a desired foregone conclusion, which is why I put zero stock in them. I think the media's constant emphasis on polls has more influence on their direction then the actual candidates.

Re Trump's taxes - I think they are irrelevant and a huge waste of media emphasis.
 
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CuckFumbustion

Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.
Who would have thought a year ago that Trump would be the republican nominee and be tied with Hillary Clinton in the polls. I haven't taken a poll because I screen my calls. There are many other people that haven't been included in a poll. I wonder how accurate they are?

Trump needs to be pinned down on the fact that he hasn't shown his past tax statements. They can't let him weasel out of answering questions about the issues either.
Or that we keep having to lower the bar as for expectations from him to be a candidate. Can he really duck taxes for the candidacy? How about the juvenile way he pumps himself up to get more tail? :disgust:
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I'm thinking Trump's taxes will show that he probably didn't pay much compared to the regular folks. That alone probably would blow him out of the water. It would piss off the folks that are nickel and dimed to death by the IRS like small businesses and the middle income tax payer.
 

Gunky

Well-Known Member
Trump has just recently received presumptive nominee status and his opponents all dropped out. Historically this situation always gives a candidate a little boost in the polls. Because his repub opponents were afraid to turn off Trump supporters, they never did much negative campaigning against him. So for him this is the lull before the storm. The polls that put Bernie up ahead of Clinton against Trump are also meaningless at this point. Bernie has never before been in an adversarial campaign at the national level. At this point the general public does not know that much about Bernie and does not recognize just how far from the mainstream Bernie's proposals are (and what a lone wolf figure he has been in Congress).

In summary, the polls taken at this point mean nothing. Do not allow your emotions to go on a roller-coaster ride depending on the latest polling; talking about polls at this point is merely a convenient substitute for journalism on the part of the media.
 
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