Divine Tribe atty's

F

Flue

Member
OF said:
I'm kind of astounded too, but not that this hasn't been done but rather that folks would see any reason to think it's practical.

You want to know what sort of gas is being evolved at 400F or so from a part that was baked at over 2000F for a very long time to make? Mullite and cristobalite (the two most common components in Alumina ceramics) don't even begin to fuse until over 2000F, and they have to be held there for much longer than you'd ever do vaping. Everything that could possibly happen at 400F has happened long ago somewhere else on the way to MUCH higher temperatures. It's like saying, 'will this glass melt if I put hot water in it?'. Since it was exposed to heat many many times higher in manufacture the answer seems obvious.

"Sintering" (the first stages of linking) starts to happen about 1800F, if it didn't get at least that hot for a while it'd crumble to bits. It doesn't get 'full hard' for another 700F or so more.

AFAIK there are no labs in the business of testing ceramics for outgassing hazards at these temperatures since 'there's nothing to find'. You could rig up a vacuum oven and RGA (Residual Gas Analyzer, sometimes called a Mass Spectrometer) to sample what comes off, but it'd be residual Nitrogen, Oxygen, trace gasses and water vapor no doubt and in the typical ratios.

Does anyone know of any "off-gassing lab" in this business? Neither do I. Probably not a profitable business to be in, not enough customers.......

Such ceramics are routinely used in UHV (Ultra High Vacuum) precisely because of this. They don't outgas anything abnormal under elevated heat and vacuum, only giving up absorbed stuff. This almost literally to the 'molecule counting level'. Typical RGAs can measure like 10^-20 torr, say about 1/100,000,000,000, 000,000 the level of water in the air? Something like .1 Cent against the National Debt? This property is used in the classic UHV 'baking' where the entire assembly is heated as much as possible under vacuum over time to quickly strip away contamination, much like we do with 'burn offs'. The ceramic doughnuts have already been 'burned off' at extreme levels (say 2500F). Anything of possible health concerns as either evaporated off long ago or will not be effected in the least by a 'mere' 400F.

"Hot stages" for testing metals and other materials at elevated temperatures are made from this sort of ceramic exactly because they don't evolve gasses to foul the high vacuums they work in. 'Nothing to see here'.

If this was a provable concern, no doubt competitors would be using such tests to cast safety concerns on each other? Safety concerns are a healthy thing, but IMO they should be tempered against realistic risks......and there just are none such here I know of. Does anyone know of any? I'd be most interested.....

TIA

OF
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Holy Jeebus, exactly what I was talking about without even batting an eyelid. More conjecture, speculation, supposition, and outright emphatic assertion by keyboard experts more interested in displaying their scientific background than guarding their intellectual and ethical honesty, and in a place where marginal health concern actually DO matter, no less.

Friend. The answer to all your myriad of presumptive assertions is quiet simple. Get the samples tested.
 
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OF

Well-Known Member
Flue said:
.

Friend. The answer to all your myriad of presumptive assertions is quiet simple. Get the samples tested.
Click to expand...

Go for it! Prove me wrong. Either by peer reviewed science or actual test?

Please don't characterize me as being dishonest unless you have something to back it up.

FWIW, my take is based on long professional experience with such stuff, on what is yours based?

OF
 
F

Flue

Member
OF said:
Go for it! Prove me wrong. Either by peer reviewed science or actual test?

Please don't characterize me as being dishonest unless you have something to back it up.

FWIW, my take is based on long professional experience with such stuff, on what is yours based?

OF
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Well let's start with your source on the composition of the ceramic.

Listen I'm not trying to say your intentions are nefarious. I'm sure you are well-meaning, just incautious.

Then when we are done with that, we can move on to your source on the composition of the heating element embedded within the ceramic.

And then we can move on to your sources on the composition of the leads attaching to the heating elements and the composition of the soldering.

Flue said:
Then when we are done with that, we can move on to your source on the composition of the heating element embedded within the ceramic.

And then we can move on to your sources on the composition of the leeds attaching to the heating elements and the composition of the soldering.
Click to expand...
 
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Flue,
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OF

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Flue said:
Well let's start with your source on the composition of the ceramic.

Listen I'm not trying to say your intentions are nefarious. I'm sure you are well-meaning, just incautious.
Click to expand...

No, let's keep it simple, keep to the original challenge: testing it? Can you even suggest a Lab to do this?

I assume you agree that if no gas comes off what the source of the material is is simply argumentative?

I've stated my opinions and the background for them. I await your proof I'm wrong.

As far as intentions go, "outright emphatic assertion by keyboard experts more interested in displaying their scientific background than guarding their intellectual and ethical honesty" kinds of sums up your view I think?

I'm being quite honest, prove me wrong?

OF
 
F

Flue

Member
Excuse but that is the weirdest type of reply I experience getting on the internet.

You're entire spiel centers around your assertion of the composition of said material, but your exposition is therefore circular since you haven't given any evidence that you even know what the composition of the material at hand even is.
 
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
Flue said:
You're entire spiel centers around your assertion of the composition of said material, but your exposition is therefore circular since you haven't given any evidence that you even know what the composition of the material at hand even is.
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It's Alumina. Almost certainly, the base for high tech ceramics for those not willing to pay the big bucks for Zirconia. "Industry standard" sorta stuff.

http://www.britannica.com/science/alumina

What did you think it is?

OF
 
OF,
F

Flue

Member
I'm sure you know what you are talking about, *if* you are correct about the particular coil. But you have shown no evidence you know for sure what this ceramic is made of. Absolutely none.
 
Flue,
Stu

Stu

Maconheiro
Staff member
We have a rule:
  • If you have a question or comment regarding material safety, post it in General Discussion. Do not post it in a model thread.
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We also have another rule:
  • No trolling. Please do not post any content that disrupts the peace and harmony of this board. Don’t post for or the purpose of starting a dispute.
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And this:
  • All members must be treated in a respectful and adult manner. All members should respect and adhere to the promotion of harmony within the community. Do not attempt to disrupt the community in any way.
  • No flaming. Do not post any content that harasses, insults, belittles, threatens or flames another member. Please be nice to newbies.
Click to expand...

Any more posts about material safety in this thread will be subject to warning points. Likewise any posts the violate our "Be nice" rule will be met with warning points.

@Flue I suggest you revisit our forum rules before posting further.

Happy New Year to all.

:peace:
 
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
Darb said:
Glad to see you join this thread @OF!
Click to expand...

Mighty glad to be here. Been watching for a while, but finally decided to jump in with all the excitement on the v2.5.....and to be honest as an excuse to explore this temperature control inside the heater thing.

So, I read the thread, bought some parts, did some experimenting (lots more to come of course) and think I've got something to contribute to the discussion.

Exciting stuff, seems driven by a guy with an open mind, serious drive to excel, and a bunch of 'customer friendly' policies (price, support, information, and so on). I'm sure good stuff will follow. Even if the new attys don't work well right off, I'm sure they will. Until then, it's easy to recommend the 2.5s.

Thanks for the kind words.

OF
 
NekoGurrl

NekoGurrl

Well-Known Member
Hoosier said:
@NekoGurrl if you need that kind of immediate relief, you should seriously look into the new portable enail rigs. They take less than 30 seconds and deliver true dabbing like effects.
Click to expand...

I received my atomizer on Wednesday, and have been enjoying it a bit to much since then. I went out that day and had to get over snow banks to get to my local coffee shop, and twisted my ankle just a little bit. Pain levels were bad enough that I had to struggle to get home. I went thru a small chip of Rosin as soon as I got home and stayed comfortable for hours, with an ice pack on the ankle. Main point for me is that I didn't need to resort to OcyCodone for the pain. A couple more sessions and I got thru the night comfortably. It does what I needed! Because of my location I normally don't bring it with me, but this with the TC40W is so small that may change. Looks like I'm not going to be leaving the apt till I can walk, fit a shoe over my foot.

I also have been enjoying it using my bubbler, ordering a backup today as the Kiln has yet to arrive.
 
ragnorokk

ragnorokk

DERP
I just received a new deep dish with a glass mp (I like it much better with the glass) and water pipe adapter. Had a great time using it last night. The glass mouthpiece makes for a more comfortable experience for me, coming from lots of globe use, and the adapter works great for $15. The adapter i received was not very well made, but at $15 I guess I'm not too upset about the poorly made joints. It made for a great time with my FC-710, though it would probably work better on a larger piece.

A a side note, I was using it on my w9 8 w/ the core, and having better results with that setup than I had on my iStick 50w.

@divinetribe sure hope the DC is still slated for a Jan 4 release date!
 
ragnorokk,
N

nickzzzx

Well-Known Member
I'm finding 13w to be ideal as far as taste, vapor, and effect from A+ shatters & crumbles. This is with the shallow dish. Kinda wish I had a deep dish but I think the key to the shallow is to not overload it. Airflow seems to be good.
 
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OF

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nickzzzx said:
I'm finding 13w to be ideal as far as taste, vapor, and effect from A+ shatters & crumbles. This is with the shallow dish. Kinda wish I had a deep dish but I think the key to the shallow is to not overload it. Airflow seems to be good.
Click to expand...

I'm of the same general opinion, however many (including the maker, who should know?) say that this 'ideal power' goes up a bit as the core ages. A few Watts. Makes sense although I haven't see it since we're still in 'getting to know each other' mode.

FWIW I'm playing with both, I think the shallow one is easier to load, but the deep one controls 'splatter' better. Otherwise they both seem to favor 'loading small and often'.

OF
 
skyler544

skyler544

Clockwork Murderer
OF said:
I'm of the same general opinion, however many (including the maker, who should know?) say that this 'ideal power' goes up a bit as the core ages. A few Watts. Makes sense although I haven't see it since we're still in 'getting to know each other' mode.

FWIW I'm playing with both, I think the shallow one is easier to load, but the deep one controls 'splatter' better. Otherwise they both seem to favor 'loading small and often'.

OF
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A friend of mine got a knockoff one, the Kiln, with a deep bowl, and I decided when I loaded it that I would choose the shallow bowl when I ordered mine (from Divine Tribe). I find that with the sticky nature of the product and the intentionally low temperature that I try to fire at, dealing with stuff sticking to the sides of the chamber would be a little irritating. The shallow bowl doesn't have that problem, at least not as much.
 
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
skyler544 said:
A friend of mine got a knockoff one, the Kiln, with a deep bowl, and I decided when I loaded it that I would choose the shallow bowl when I ordered mine (from Divine Tribe). I find that with the sticky nature of the product and the intentionally low temperature that I try to fire at, dealing with stuff sticking to the sides of the chamber would be a little irritating. The shallow bowl doesn't have that problem, at least not as much.
Click to expand...

Actually I don't think it's a knock off, didn't Matt say Atmos bought them from him? Personally I've never seen the Kiln version.

For sure loading sticky stuff is harder with the deep well (I find heating the doughnut up a bit helps melt the concentrate off the tool) it controls the splatter better I think. Instead of getting stuck to the taller walls and eventually running down again, it gets blown all over the inside of the cover (where it can't return on it's own).....not real attractive with the glass one, more cosmetic (but harder to scrape off) with the ceramic cover. Since the basic heater is the same, given the same concentrate and temperatures it's going to splatter just as much in both models, it's just with the deeper one it's easier to contain.

The vents are different too. The deep version has two pairs close to each other but on opposite sides. The shallow one also has four at the same height off the doughnut, but equally spaced, with two round and two square. FWIW the round holes seem to be easier to 'suck open again' when the concentrate tries to escape that way. More experience is needed to be sure.

Tough call, I got both and think that's a good idea.

OF
 
skyler544

skyler544

Clockwork Murderer
@OF you make good points on all points. Based on side by side comparison, I would say that the Kiln was just a Divine Tribe with that name laser printed on it and sold for twice the price, but I don't know that for certain and I didn't read the entirety of this thread so if Matt did say that I missed it. I wouldn't be surprised at all if that was the case though. It would certainly make more sense than attempting to set up all parts of the manufacturing process to do it themselves.

I think that I'll probably get a deep bowl too and the bubbler attachment at some point, but right now I'm just really happy to have one and the shallow bowl is doing the trick for me beautifully.
 
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kernal6500

Well-Known Member
anyone can use the design u can go directly to the manufacturer on dhgate or alibaba and find identical units
 
kernal6500,
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
skyler544 said:
@OF you make good points on all points. Based on side by side comparison, I would say that the Kiln was just a Divine Tribe with that name laser printed on it and sold for twice the price, but I don't know that for certain and I didn't read the entirety of this thread so if Matt did say that I missed it.
Click to expand...

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/divine-tribe-attys.14455/page-24#post-840197

Hard to say, you can read it a couple of ways I guess, but to me it says at least the Atmos unit is not a knock off. They are not making it, but buying it and adding their name.

kernal6500 said:
anyone can use the design u can go directly to the manufacturer on dhgate or alibaba and find identical units
Click to expand...

If you say they're identical I'll take your word, I haven't seen them. They look like the DT ones, but then again I've intentionally bought vapes like 'official Arizer Air' from DHGate that look right but are cheap copies. Counterfeits. Sorry, that happens too. Makes sense, though, why would a vape made in Canada end up for cheap in China? I've bought others too to see if they were indeed legit, sad to say they're usually not.

To me, saving ten dollars or less on a questionable one with no support that takes weeks to get to me over the real deal from DT is an easy call to make. IMO Matt should earn a reasonable profit from his efforts, after all I want him to have the desire and resources to bring new products to the market. For sure DHGate isn't doing that from where I sit.

OF
 
K

kernal6500

Well-Known Member
OF said:
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/divine-tribe-attys.14455/page-24#post-840197

Hard to say, you can read it a couple of ways I guess, but to me it says at least the Atmos unit is not a knock off. They are not making it, but buying it and adding their name.



If you say they're identical I'll take your word, I haven't seen them. They look like the DT ones, but then again I've intentionally bought vapes like 'official Arizer Air' from DHGate that look right but are cheap copies. Counterfeits. Sorry, that happens too. Makes sense, though, why would a vape made in Canada end up for cheap in China? I've bought others too to see if they were indeed legit, sad to say they're usually not.

To me, saving ten dollars or less on a questionable one with no support that takes weeks to get to me over the real deal from DT is an easy call to make. IMO Matt should earn a reasonable profit from his efforts, after all I want him to have the desire and resources to bring new products to the market. For sure DHGate isn't doing that from where I sit.

OF
Click to expand...

Ya, I would not trust the ones from dhgate. I am sticking with Divine Tribe all day!
 
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OF

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kernal6500 said:
Ya, I would not trust the ones from dhgate. I am sticking with Divine Tribe all day!
Click to expand...

It's not like a guy needs all that many.......

My pair came with a tiny flaw. It looks like the glaze between the o-rings is a tiny bit too thick on one of them. Here's a photo of the glass top resting on it with no rings:
Oz9Qqet.jpg


I didn't notice it (of course), playing with the other one. When I tried to put the ceramic top on it (after loading it of course......) it cracked the thin lip of the cap trying to get past it (OK, I was doing all the pushing). A quick email or two to DT and I had replacement parts (and apology for something they clearly didn't do) in my hands 'in no time'. Try that from DHGate........

Such support has real value to me, peace of mind kind of thing. Great to know it's there, like a seatbelt, there to protect you even if you never need it.

OF
 
Steven

Steven

Well-Known Member
OF said:
It's not like a guy needs all that many.......

My pair came with a tiny flaw. It looks like the glaze between the o-rings is a tiny bit too thick on one of them. Here's a photo of the glass top resting on it with no rings:
Oz9Qqet.jpg


I didn't notice it (of course), playing with the other one. When I tried to put the ceramic top on it (after loading it of course......) it cracked the thin lip of the cap trying to get past it (OK, I was doing all the pushing). A quick email or two to DT and I had replacement parts (and apology for something they clearly didn't do) in my hands 'in no time'. Try that from DHGate........

Such support has real value to me, peace of mind kind of thing. Great to know it's there, like a seatbelt, there to protect you even if you never need it.

OF
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Yea, I have nothing but good things to say about all my emails with Matt. He is very humble and open minded. He listens to all input and ideas to improve products. And I just feel like the guy is one of us regular guys and knows where we are coming from.
 
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
Steven said:
Yea, I have nothing but good things to say about all my emails with Matt. He is very humble and open minded. He listens to all input and ideas to improve products. And I just feel like the guy is one of us regular guys and knows where we are coming from.
Click to expand...

Yep, that's the guy. IMO we could use a whole lot more like him.....and a few less of the other type. He's looking to provide the best possible product, not make a big profit as quickly/easily as possible.

I like that, and enjoy supporting it with my modest purchases.

OF
 
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