Underdog Log Vapes

So Dave, what kinds of high quality power supply options have you found? I have been unplugging my dogs at night and when I leave for work in the morning, so they are only on when I'm at home (at the moment).
I really only cycle between 5v (standby) and 12v, and I was wondering if there were options for people who didn't need as much voltage control, maybe more reliable for 24/7 use? Not that i've had any issues with the vvps' provided! I'm just planning a "travel kit" with my twig and a pelican case, and want to keep one of the travel vvps' cold as a backup, just in case.

I have read previous posts where you recommended the Hildbrandt tattoo power supplies, but then with your recent problems with them, would you still recommend them? Also forgive my ignorance, but would I need to buy a pedal to use those?
Would you recommend a "dimmer" switch through the standard "wall wart" or is that harmful in some way?

Thank you Dave and anyone else who chimes in with any personal experiences or !

Edit: Also is it more harmful on the vvps and UD if I keep it on at 5v all the time, or unplug it when I am not at home? Also I re-read your post 1 page back about the power supply quandry, you answered most of my questions already, sorry about that! Let me know if you find any new options?

I always figured they would last longer at a constant 12v 24/7 365 than they would being turned on and off and letting the materials heat and cool and shrink and expand. I never had a single core issue with mine running 24/7, but when I unplugged it for a few days it developed a loose core. Could be coincidence, but for a fact it held up amazingly while running all day every day.

Yoshimattsu said:

So Dave, what kinds of high quality power supply options have you found? I have been unplugging my dogs at night and when I leave for work in the morning, so they are only on when I'm at home (at the moment).
I really only cycle between 5v (standby) and 12v, and I was wondering if there were options for people who didn't need as much voltage control, maybe more reliable for 24/7 use? Not that i've had any issues with the vvps' provided! I'm just planning a "travel kit" with my twig and a pelican case, and want to keep one of the travel vvps' cold as a backup, just in case.

I have read previous posts where you recommended the Hildbrandt tattoo power supplies, but then with your recent problems with them, would you still recommend them? Also forgive my ignorance, but would I need to buy a pedal to use those?
Would you recommend a "dimmer" switch through the standard "wall wart" or is that harmful in some way?

Thank you Dave and anyone else who chimes in with any personal experiences or !

Edit: Also is it more harmful on the vvps and UD if I keep it on at 5v all the time, or unplug it when I am not at home? Also I re-read your post 1 page back about the power supply quandry, you answered most of my questions already, sorry about that! Let me know if you find any new options?

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Just FYI, I have been having issues with the pricier "Hilbrandt Spartan" VVPS. I bought it because the dial is supposed to be more precise, but after keeping it around ~13.2V for so long, it is now jumping around in the 13-14v range. Not as precise as it used to be.

The cheaper Hilbrandt Stealth might still be a good option, but dunno if I recommend the spartan anymore.

I've been using this power supply since about May/June of 2013 and haven't had any problems with it.

http://www.amazon.com/Tekpower-HY-1...sr=8-14&keywords=variable+power+supply+tattoo


i keep it under my desk, resting on top of my subwoofer so its just below knee height while sitting. i would say that the dial can be a little touchy but that's about it. oh, and the red flames are a bit much too. i had to replace the cord that runs from my UD to the VVPS, although that was due to my own clumsiness.

i usually keep it on 24/7. i'll dial it down to between 10-12V overnight and while i'm at work til 4:30PM. then for sessions, i'll keep it running between 12-13.7V. i don't find that it makes any noticeable noise at all. just picked it up and wouldn't say its hot and barely warm.

anybody else have this VVPS?

@ Darkrom - No worries dude I figured as much (you being busy).. whenever works for you is fine. I do have a few 18mm WonGs left if you really want one but I personally find the 14mm GonGs much superior even though they need a 14/18 adapter. If you'd prefer the WonG just remind me once you send your piece in and before I send it back.

Re: whether it's harder on a Dog to run 24/7 or to cycle cold/hot/cold/hot/etc regularly is somewhat of a tough call. I used to find that the cycling was hard on the wooden body with your vintage of core but the newer ones that are better insulated seem to have changed that and I now find that leaving the new ones on 24/7 seems harder on the heating element (and definitely on the power supplies) so recommend when possible that people keep them at a low 'standby' voltage when not in use if not just cycle them off/on as needed.

@ jibba jabba - I'll let the community answer some of your questions since I'm obviously probably biased but will jump in if any get left unanswered (or I have different opinions). Re: temps - you shouldn't have any problems achieving whatever temps you need, a stock UD with VVPS is more than capable of reaching temps all the way to combustion if you choose. Re: GonGs - you can use them for direct draw though they're very short. I don't think they're on the website yet but we can also make an all-glass (besides the stainless screen) stem that's like the GonGs but longer and without the GonG if you like. If that's something you want just contact me prior to ordering and we'll figure out the details. Re: Differences between pieces - it's primarily a matter of cosmetics and/or aesthetics at this point.. there are some minor functional differences based on wood density, size, etc but they are fairly minor in these past few generation of cores. So, I suggest people buy based mostly on what they find attractive and not worry too much about the function.. all the Dogs will make clouds of vapor.

@ Yoshi - I haven't found a higher quality VVPS yet unfortunately. I was recommending the Hildbrandts but as I posted previously they've all started dying on me recently so I don't know what to suggest at this point. I am testing a few different ones right now but they're not looking particularly good at this point. VVPS that are meant to be used with a pedal will require the use of a 'bypass plug' or a 1/4" bolt that you can pick up at a hardware store.. the bypass plug is inserted into the jack for the pedal and locks it into the 'on' position so the pedal isn't needed. Dimmer switches can sometimes work well but I've had lots of those fail in the last 6 months so try not to recommend them these days. They won't tend to hurt anything but just burn themselves out. As for whether keeping a piece at a standby voltage or turning off or on is better it depends on your usage. From a hardware standpoint it's better on the Dog and the VVPS to be turned off when not in use, keeping it at a 'standby' voltage when not in use is second best and finally running on the stock power supply 24/7 (ie at near max power) is least desirable from a wear'n'tear standpoint.

@ SD - that pretty much mirrors my experience with the Hildbrandts as well. The voltage jumping around indicates a component nearing failure and then eventually it fully cooks off and *poof* no more output. When this happens usually the unit still powers up and looks like it should work but there's no voltage being output regardless of what the screen says. In my test units the failures have pretty much all been burned out rectifier diodes and/or LM/MIC chips. Most of the component failures seem heat related, better cooling to the unit would probably help but I don't see the manufacture adding that and it's not something a user can easily do. That is why keeping it at 'standby' voltages help prolong the life though as the VVPS operating temperature (internally, not that of the attached UD) is directly related to the output voltage/current it's delivering.. so less power = less heat = longer life.

@ HES - yeah those are decent power supplies and are what I used to offer way back in the early days of our joining up on FC. I have a couple of them left here and they are showing signs of failure (similar in nature to that of the Hildbrandts) after a year or two as well. Sigh. Still though I'd say those are probably more reliable than the Hildbrandts at this point and are a pretty good value.

Alright dudes and dudettes.. shutting down for the day, will talk with you all tomorrow.

jibba jabba said:

Finally, power supply/temperatures: I find I like to vape pretty hot because I am mainly an indica person/vape primarily for bed and I like the heavier feelings then - is it easier to get higher temperatures by just drawing slower and having it heat the plant matter for longer/less cooling because of less airflow etc, or do you have to have the vvps to get to higher temperatures? Or is this where you use the 'bowl distance' to adjust temperature? Is it still variable with a glass stem?

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The VVPS is definitely the way to go. I find myself adjusting it for different strains. Basically anywhere from ten to thirteen volts is my range, and the 3/8'' core makes for some easy draws.

Everything will change the dynamics a little. The shape, the size, the wood used for the vape... and it's why I've come to love vaporizing. Every one is quite a bit different from the next, whereas bongs are not too far off from one another - if that makes any sense?

Hey everyone! Looks like I am finally joining this dog pack I now have the opportunity to grab a $205 (or less) UD, but I can't decide which one to get! I certainly need to do some reading in this thread, it's been a while! In the meantime, if anyone can suggest a nice, well-behaved dog- I'd love suggestions. I want one that runs hot, but doesn't combust. I'm not sure about power supplies, etc- either. Also, most of the dogs are the "classic core" variety in that price range, but I'm not sure what the difference is. So, like I said, I will be reading this thread tonight, but I'd like to make a decision SOON. So if anyone would like to enlighten me, please do! Thanks!!

It's kind of hard to recommend a specific dog, because they are all unique.

They might vary a little when it comes to temperature but they should all be pretty much the same. My twig runs pretty hot though. Getting a VVPS will be the key to getting the temperatures you want.

As far as I understand the only notable difference in core design is the newer cores can use the nylon stems, while the classic core cannot.

I'd say pick whichever one you like looking at best, they will all serve you well. Then look into a VVPS to take it to the next level.

Tstat said:

Hey everyone! Looks like I am finally joining this dog pack I now have the opportunity to grab a $205 (or less) UD, but I can't decide which one to get! I certainly need to do some reading in this thread, it's been a while! In the meantime, if anyone can suggest a nice, well-behaved dog- I'd love suggestions. I want one that runs hot, but doesn't combust. I'm not sure about power supplies, etc- either. Also, most of the dogs are the "classic core" variety in that price range, but I'm not sure what the difference is. So, like I said, I will be reading this thread tonight, but I'd like to make a decision SOON. So if anyone would like to enlighten me, please do! Thanks!!

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If you want one that runs hot, I'd suggest a twig for sure. I'm not sure whether the core truly runs hotter or not, but having used both twigs and logs, it sure feels like the twigs run hotter (either that or they just FEEL hotter). I would choose the VVPS, personally, but I've heard that the standard wall wart works just fine (and runs hotter than I personally keep my VVPS at). The "classic core" variety just means they were built prior to the two most recent refreshes, which included a change in design to the core. Dave could better answer what the difference is. All I know is that I have one of each, a classic core log and a new style twig, and they both work equally well. The only difference is that the twig heats up three times as fast as the log (which doesn't matter since I leave them both running), and the twig can be used with the nylon stems which don't work with the classic core models. The simple glass stem is my favorite, although I do like the nylon too (much smaller bowl, more of a 2-3 hit session).

Pick one you think is pretty. No matter which one you get, it's a great vape!

Thanks everyone! I used to have PD years ago and although I loved the look and feel of it, it never got hot enough for me. I mean, just as an example, I use my original Cloud at no more that 1-2 o'clock. I don't know what that equates to temp-wise, but it's not as hot as it CAN go And the PD never came close. Now, I know these are 2 different animals I am comparing, and being a guy who owns 4 "breathing dogs", I already knew the UD outperformed the PD! Woof!

I guess I don't care what kind of stem fits as long as the performance is the same. How much is a VVPS?

Tstat said:

I guess I don't care what kind of stem fits as long as the performance is the same. How much is a VVPS?

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When you select a vape on the UD site, you're given a choice of power supply (standard wall wart or variable voltage), as well as a choice of stems.

Ok, cool. So I think I like the Oregon County Myrtle (classic core)!

Ah that's the one that I was thinking of ordering, love the way it looks, so simple! But yeah, I guess go for it, I'm not quite ready to pull the trigger as it's a lot of money for me. You guys all answered my questions so well and promptly, the only reason I'm not buying one right away is because I can't decide if I want to spend the money on a new vape (which would definitely be that UD) or if I should keep on saving for a sequencer for my modular synth.... ahhhhh fucking tough decisions (http://www.synthesizers.com/q119.html)

jibba jabba said:

ahhhhh fucking tough decisions

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A synthesizer won't change, but you may never be able to get that exact UD again! So I say if you see one that you really like you HAVE to go for it.

Tstat said:

Thanks everyone! I used to have PD years ago and although I loved the look and feel of it, it never got hot enough for me. I mean, just as an example, I use my original Cloud at no more that 1-2 o'clock. I don't know what that equates to temp-wise, but it's not as hot as it CAN go And the PD never came close. Now, I know these are 2 different animals I am comparing, and being a guy who owns 4 "breathing dogs", I already knew the UD outperformed the PD! Woof!

I guess I don't care what kind of stem fits as long as the performance is the same. How much is a VVPS?

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Having used a few PDs and a few UDs myself, my opinion is that it's a pretty safe bet that any UD you pick from the current batch would probably run hotter than most any PD by default (even with a non-VV wall-wart), especially if the UD is compared to a cooler PD (which it sounds like you had).

Yea, that's what I have been hearing! Thanks for that, as it was my only concern

How does the Underdog compare with the E-Nano/EV2?

Primasilva said:

How does the Underdog compare with the E-Nano/EV2?

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I would think they would be fairly similar. Have checked out the thread, it's had it's bumps but pretty much every vape thread does somewhere along the line. It's my understanding that HI/UD/EV/Nano are all in the same vague 'vein' of nice log vapes. I haven't actually used either model, so I can't give any personal input, but I believe one of the more active members has both, will probably chime in soon.

Judging from videos, and UD experience, both can put out some pretty foggy hits. UD has the upper hand on aesthetics (IMO obviously), more variance in wood, style, shape, character. It's hit and miss, but part of the experience is waiting on those refreshes until that unit that you fall in love with comes along .

Ahhh the age old' question. Been hearing this a lot lately. It breaks down like this
UD
- resistor heater
- custom( not one like the other)
- good for small snapper hits on command ( tho I only use wal wart right now) gets me thoroughly medicated with ease and speed. Can still put out massive amounts of vapor that make ny hardcore vaper/ smoker cry from within

Enano
- ceramic heater
- all same shape and size, tho custom laser etchings are required
- good for big lung collapsing hits and taste testers, nice easy temp change

Ev2
- ceramic heater
- bigger bowl allowing for more " players" to be involved
- more along the lines of a v-tower or SSV

But all in all I love them both. My buddy has an ev2. All great vapes. I gotta say tho, if you want something dear to your heart and a rock solid product with rock solid service. Go with UD. Never a bad choice. And hey no one said you couldn't have both?

I'm not sure if I'm using this thing right... but It appears my dog has been running at 16 volts all this time

What is the proper way to use a voltsmeter to measure my dog? Currently I have it Set on VDC and I'm putting the red one inside the power plug, and the black one touching the outside.

AdmiralAlpacha said:

I'm not sure if I'm using this thing right... but It appears my dog has been running at 16 volts all this time

What is the proper way to use a voltsmeter to measure my dog? Currently I have it Set on VDC and I'm putting the red one inside the power plug, and the black one touching the outside.

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You'll get different measurements from your power supply depending on whether it's being used (plugged into both the UD and the wall) or not. When not being used (but plugged into the wall), the power supply will measure higher voltage than when the UD is being used (e.g., can be 16V without the load of the UD attached). If you want to measure how much voltage is going through the UD while being used, you'll need to tap into the wires between the power supply and the UD (it's probably gonna take more work/effort than just using the voltmeter probes)

Thanks!, Did some covert ops shit, and broke into my dog. It was reading 13.9 Internally, found the sweet spot with my dimmer and have it set to around 12v now!

Now Dave do you have any tips on what type of glue to use to put this leather back on.

AdmiralAlpacha said:

Thanks!, Did some covert ops shit, and broke into my dog. It was reading 13.9 Internally, found the sweet spot with my dimmer and have it set to around 12v now!

Now Dave do you have any tips on what type of glue to use to put this leather back on.

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I just use white craft glue (Elmer's) like the kind kids use for arts and crafts.. works great and is reasonably easy to remove if need be.

One thing missing on the comparisons above is how is the device powered. Does the power come through a UL stickered "wall wort" or VVPS or does it plug directly into a 110 volt socket? Anything that plugs directly into the wall should have a UL sticker. Going through the UL process insures no fire or shock hazard from the device. We ran into that right away when we started Zaps in 2001. Also the "resistor heater" mentioned above is a ceramic coated resistor used in log vapes for many years.

As for Dogs, all I can say is Dave bellied up right after our bust last summer and sent us a couple UDs and other creations from UD land. I have had my dog at 13.1/13.2 24/7 since that time. It never misses a beat and always produces massive clouds whenever required. I use the red flame VVPS,($40 delivered) the very first of many we tried. For some reason the coppers left it in my shop. That VVPS just keeps going and going while running nice and cool. Also easy to make a vape plug wire as the knobs unscrew so you can wrap a wire around the terminals. No plug needed with that VVPS except the plug that goes into the log vape and some wire.

One of the comforts we have had since being forced out of business is that Dave is around churning out these dogs. Very good product with excellent service and he is always looking to improve both.

It is also easy to check operating voltage without taking the dog apart. Just measure voltage across the two wires with the dog plugged in. Those little green/black replacement plugs work great as they have the set screws on the plug so you can put voltmeter probes right on the set screws while everything is on. Or. strip a small portion of the power wires and check voltage across the two wires.

Rick said:

It is also easy to check operating voltage without taking the dog apart. Just measure voltage across the two wires with the dog plugged in. Those little green/black replacement plugs work great as they have the set screws on the plug so you can put voltmeter probes right on the set screws while everything is on. Or. strip a small portion of the power wires and check voltage across the two wires.

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I should have mentioned those green/black things--I agree they work great. Here's the kind of thing Rick's talking about:
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/82-16620

*much* easier than ripping open your UD!