Extended Curing...

Has anyone else experienced this.

Awhile ago, I purchased some bud from my dispensary that looked and smelled amazing with white trichs and shiny crystals all over it. Smelled unbelievably great and it was sticky as hell. Not wet, or dry, but freshly cured. When squeezed between fingers, it would literally stick to one finger. Soooo excited to get this bud, I brought it home, loaded it into my vape............and......... .......just blah. I mean, not only did it look great and smell great, but it tasted great as well. The problem is, is that I just didn't get as high as I thought I would. I have bud that didn't look, smell or taste nearly as good, but got me wayyyyy higher, so I just put this particular bud away in an airtight SpaceCase container and put that into a mason jar, put it in the bottom of a drawer covered with t-shirts and sweats and vaped other bud that I had and also purchased more recently.

A few days ago, I was running a bit low on my stash and remembered that I had this bud stored away and thought, what the hell, I know it's not the best, but I'm running low, so I brought it out. Still sticky as hell. Ground up some, put it in bowl, hit it with the LSV and...................... . WOW !!! Now THIS is how this bud is supposed to work. The high that I now got off of this bud was equal to the look, smell and touch that it should have been, but the weird thing is, is that this is about 6 months AFTER I first got it. It's like an additional 6 months of curing really did the trick.

So while there are many threads discussing how much bud deteriorates over time, in this particular instance, it not only did not deteriorate, but actually improved over 6 months...............dramatically.

Anyone else experience this?

Interesting topic. I'm looking forward to hearing the responses as I have quite a few jars like the one you described. I use Boveda packs so usually when I crack the jar its perfectly fresh...but I will be taking note of potency next time I sample.

Your Highness said:

Interesting topic. I'm looking forward to hearing the responses as I have quite a few jars like the one you described. I use Boveda packs so usually when I crack the jar its perfectly fresh...but I will be taking note of potency next time I sample.

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I don't use Boveda packs but I would imagine that if there was some additional curing going on with my bud that caused it to increase in potency, the use of Boveda packs "could" inhibit that additional curing, eh?

lwien said:

I don't use Boveda packs but I would imagine that if there was some additional curing going on with my bud that caused it to increase in potency, the use of Boveda packs "could" inhibit that additional curing, eh?

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The Boveda only maintains the optimal humidity. This should not effect the curing process as it adds as well as removes moisture, so the curing should continue on a more stable level I would think.
They even advertise to use the packs right away in the curing process but I would wait for the bud to dry out a bit before adding them personally...

lwien, this topic has been covered in great detail many times.

Bag appeal IS NOT an indicator of potency.
Smell, resin content, stickyness, milkyness, density, all of these are INDEPENDENT VARIABLES with respect to potency.

The resin glands don't only consist of active compounds, but many other compounds, and the concentration of the active compounds withing the gland is something that must be considered.

There could be far fewer resin glands with far higher concentrations of active compounds, which means that something that looks like poor quality can actually be of incredible potency, while you can also have the reverse scenario, where glands are quite prevalent, just incredibly low in concentration, and therefore sub-par potency.

In other words, looks aren't everything.

Also, the reason why potency is being increased is because of the degraded compounds.

Try vaping through a log vape, but not finishing all the actives, then put the abv in a container which is open to oxygen, and light.

Vape this stuff a month down the line, but only if you have nothing else to do, and are okay with feeling like you are falling from the face of the earth.

Just because the compounds are decomposed, does not mean that they decompose into something less potent.

OO said:

lwien, this topic has been covered in great detail many times.

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Really? Must have missed all that stuff.

lwien said:

Really? Must have missed all that stuff.

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Yeah, most of it is in response to other questions asked in topics not at all related to the subject.

Most took place during your somewhat extended absences from this community.

How do you know if it was cured in the first place?

I wondered if a dispensary made sure their sources cured their products. My guess is more often than not the suppliers just hand over freshly dried product.

I don't have access to a dispensary, but the top products around my parts are never cured. I've seen plenty of times where it wasn't even fully dried. Ugh.

Because the dispensary that I went to, CornerStone Research, has a reputation in LA that is wayyyy above and beyond that of a typical dispensary. See here: http://www.cornerstonecollective.com/

Of course, there is no way that I can guarantee that the bud was properly cured, unless of course, I cured it myself.

Tweak said:

How do you know if it was cured in the first place?

I wondered if a dispensary made sure their sources cured their products. My guess is more often than not the suppliers just hand over freshly dried product.

I don't have access to a dispensary, but the top products around my parts are never cured. I've seen plenty of times where it wasn't even fully dried. Ugh.

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This is a likely possibility, but what I would think is a slightly irrelevant one if the conventional understanding of the vaporization process is correct.

What I mean to say is that how vaporization is commonly understood, it means that the entire vaporized substance has been decarboxylated due to the temperature of vaporization and the temperature at which decarboxylation occurs being lower than that. It is entirely possible that the uncured resin is not entirely decarboxylated (or only to a minor extent) prior to volitization, and that much of the relatively non-active acid form is being vaporized and absorbed.

That being said, if the conventional understanding is correct that my previous theory is likely. But I do not want to discredit the possibility that this non-conventional theory is not possible.

lwien, when you say it is improved, could you elaborate?

I'm curious how the effects differ. When I let the material decompose, the effect is far more in the realm of intoxicating than a fresh material.

Intoxicating is the correct term, but I get just as intoxicated with all of the top end fresh material that I vaped right after purchase. This particular batch took 6 months in storage to reach this level.

sidebar: OO, if you could refer to me by my screen name, it would be much appreciated. Thanks....

lwien said:

Intoxicating is the correct term, but I get just as intoxicated with all of the top end fresh material that I vaped right after purchase. This particular batch took 6 months in storage to reach this level.

sidebar; OO, if you could refer to me by my screen name, it would be much appreciated. Thanks....

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Absolutely, if I could I would edit it out of all of my posts, but unfortunately these boards have a pretty short time limit for editing.

I'm guessing what happened is you got material that was better cared for, or harvested earlier, and therefore has less decomposed compounds to induce the intoxicating effect.

I further suspect that the specific compound is the result of the decomposed product of the decarboxylated acid, which is why ABV increases the effect (decarboxylation has taken place).

OO said:

I'm guessing what happened is you got material that was better cared for, or harvested earlier, and therefore has less decomposed compounds to induce the intoxicating effect.

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Possibly. It's kinda weird 'cause I've been getting all my bud from CornerStone and this is the first batch that this has ever happened with. It ended up being a very pleasant surprise though.

lwien said:

Possibly. It's kinda weird 'cause I've been getting all my bud from CornerStone and this is the first batch that this has ever happened with. It ended up being a very pleasant surprise though.

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There could be other factors at work, maybe they found a new technique to slow decomposition, maybe there are more antioxidants in this strain, there are so many possibilities, it might be a good idea to ask them. Assuming they grow and process all their own materials, it seems like they may have just been unfamiliar with this particular strain and harvested it somewhat earlier, but this is making many assumptions.

I'm more interested in the aspects regarding the ratios of compounds that yield different effects, for the future commercialization of cannabis, it is important to gather data on which compounds in which ratios yield which effects (focus vs. intoxication vs. creativity vs. stress relief, etc.).

It's valuable work that should be done long before commercialization happens, but due to the interests of a few, this type of study is not going to happen.

lwien said:

Because the dispensary that I went to, CornerStone Research, has a reputation in LA that is wayyyy above and beyond that of a typical dispensary.

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Sweet. Lucky sob,

OO said:

it means that the entire vaporized substance has been decarboxylated due to the temperature of vaporization and the temperature at which decarboxylation occurs being lower than that.

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There isn't much decarboxylation during curing, as you state most of that occurs only above 100 degrees. It's the conversion of the non-psychoactive cannabergerol (CBG) to tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). Also the conversion of other precursors that form into cannabidiol (CBD) and other cannabinoids.

This is the reason to flush before harvest, to remove as many minerals and let the plant start feeding off its own nutrients and sugars, allowing for a shorter cure time.

Tweak said:

There isn't much decarboxylation during curing, as you state most of that occurs only above 100 degrees. It's the conversion of the non-psychoactive cannabergerol (CBG) to tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). Also the conversion of other precursors that form into cannabidiol (CBD) and other cannabinoids.

This is the reason to flush before harvest, to remove as many minerals and let the plant start feeding off its own nutrients and sugars, allowing for a shorter cure time.

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I'd like some sources for reading up on the topics you mentioned.

Here is a source that talks about what I mentioned earlier.
http://countyourculture.com/2010/11/11/decarboxylation-of-cannabis/

After cannabis is harvested and cured, these carboxyl groups begin to degrade, releasing CO2 and leaving behind the desired decarboxylated active cannabinoids. Drying, aging, and heat all contribute to break this carboxyl group down, which is why fresh cannabis is typically cured and then smoked for maximum potency.

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I think that a significant amount may occur during curing (Decarboxylation of THCA to THC), but that also the process occurs more quickly at higher temperatures (not necessarily close to completion).

OO said:

I'd like some sources for reading up on the topics you mentioned.

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Sure.

https://www.icmag.com/modules/Tutorials/Harvesting and Curing/1680.htm

Which I believe originated from this post:

http://www.marijuanagrowing.com/showthread.php?589-Curing!

And I found this post by a user on tokecity:

"Decarboxylation is an important step to take when making edibles, but for product that will be smoked it isn't necessary as all the THCA is converted when a flame is applied. At room temperature the process is really quite slow, with only up to half of the THCA being converted after a year"

I've been researching all night and I'm more confused than when I started, . There is so much mis-information that it is hard to find a reputable source about this topic.

was it a sativadominant strain?
I've had an experience with an outdoorsativa that I grew myself wich also improved a lot after a few months curing, while the more indica-leaning strain next to it was good enough as soon as it was dry and only improved/strengthened flavor/smell a bit by curing.

and I've also read other reports of people that grew sativadominant strains that needed longer curing, I especially see it often mentioned for sativa landraces.

I think curing also allows for THCA to become CBD i think. That could be one of the reasons why Sativas need more time, they have more THC present.

Decarboxylation sort of activates THC psychoactive potential, that is why it is needed when you eat it.

djonkoman said:

was it a sativadominant strain?
I've had an experience with an outdoorsativa that I grew myself wich also improved a lot after a few months curing, while the more indica-leaning strain next to it was good enough as soon as it was dry and only improved/strengthened flavor/smell a bit by curing.

and I've also read other reports of people that grew sativadominant strains that needed longer curing, I especially see it often mentioned for sativa landraces.

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I agree with this...some strains truly improve in potency with long cures. Not all.

But all seem to benefit in taste, smoothness, and smell from longer cures.

djonkoman said:

was it a sativadominant strain?
I've had an experience with an outdoorsativa that I grew myself wich also improved a lot after a few months curing, while the more indica-leaning strain next to it was good enough as soon as it was dry and only improved/strengthened flavor/smell a bit by curing.

and I've also read other reports of people that grew sativadominant strains that needed longer curing, I especially see it often mentioned for sativa landraces.

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This very well could be. The strain I was referring to in the original post was a sativa dominate hybrid.

vorrange said:

I think curing also allows for THCA to become CBD i think.

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THC can degrade to CBN, not CBD.

fake name said:

THC can degrade to CBN, not CBD.

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Thanks, then that's what i meant.

I tend to confuse them, i know CBN is cannabinol and CBD is cannabidiol, but when it comes to what their role is, it gets more difficult to not get 'em mixed up.

Tweak said:

I've been researching all night and I'm more confused than when I started, . There is so much mis-information that it is hard to find a reputable source about this topic.

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I was confused about the cannabigerol you mentioned. Not only does the source spell it incorrectly, but I haven't been able to find a source that would verify that CBG converts to THC, let alone the mechanism.

Tweak said:

"Decarboxylation ... At room temperature the process is really quite slow, with only up to half of the THCA being converted after a year"

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Which can be quite significant, because very little THC, on the order of micrograms, is needed to trigger a response. This means a small change can make a big difference, and assuming it is a high THC concentration strain, this could mean that as much as 5% by weight THCA has been converted to THC.
That's for the 6 month time period, not to mention the other factors that play a part, but we won't go there. All I'm trying to say is that this could very well be responsible for the improvement in potency.

Tweak said:

I've been researching all night and I'm more confused than when I started, . There is so much mis-information that it is hard to find a reputable source about this topic.

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Yeah, this is the problem with internet sources, anybody can say anything, so it's best to have legit sources cited to help support the arguments made.

OO said:

I was confused about the cannabigerol you mentioned. Not only does the source spell it incorrectly, but I haven't been able to find a source that would verify that CBG converts to THC, let alone the mechanism.

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CBGa collapses in upon itself and forms the rings that comprise THCa, which as we all know decarboxylates into THC. See this video from SantaCruz Labs.