Looking to upgrade from Iolite, advice needed badly...

I am one of those English people who has been smoking herb mixed with tobacco for 10+ years. I always said I'd switch 100% to vaping when I hit 30, because frankly, my lungs have not appreciated the onslaught I've treated them to over the years.

At the moment I have an Ego for my nicotiene requirements and an iolite for herbs. I had a re-lapse on the Friday and smoked numerous conventional spliffs. Despite noticing that the iolite gets me more stoned, the 50/50 tobacco/skunk mix seems to have a magic quality to it - the stoned effect seems to outlast what i experience with the iolite. I really do miss combustion, every one looks so tasty now

I am DETERMINED to kick combustion and need advice on the next piece of kit to buy, because although the iolite has it's good points I feel it could do better.

Positives of the Iolite: Easy to use, gets you properly stoned eventually, great efficiency and perfect size of herb chamber (herb is expensive here now and ain't getting any cheaper).

What I would like to achieve: I like the portability of the Iolite but it's largely un-necessary as i do most of my vaping at home/friends houses.

On the Iolite, towards the end I find you have to suck like crazy to get anything out of it, there is very little visible vapour - I would like to buy something where you can EASILY pull in LOTS of THICK HIGH QUALITY VAPOUR.

The Iolite is very loud, when I'm watching a movie in the evening I find Darth Vader's prescence quite distracting. I would like my next vape to be as quiet as possible, although I'd consider sacrificing this for overall top performance.

I find herb tastes oddly funky out of the iolite, towards the end it tastes almost metallic. I would like something with a compact herb chamber which does not carry a funny taste.

Ease of use is important to me, the iolite seems about right on this. I do not want to have to organise 4-5 different pieces of glass every time I vape, minimal or at the very least, easy cleaning and maintenance would be a big selling point for me.

So, in conclusion I'm moving to tabletop and will happily spend £200, I'll go up to £300 if I have to. So far I've looked at the Vapir No.2, the Arizer Extreme Q, the LSV and silver surfer but I'm open minded. Not too sure about bags, reckon I'd prefer a whip.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated, as you can't beat advice from those who own and use vaporizers regularly.

Thanks in advance for reading my post and taking the time to reply, in doing so you are helping to improve someone's health which has got to be serious good karma.

the stoned effect seems to outlast what i experience with the iolite.

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Aside from the tobacco angle, smoking is going to give you more of the "stoned effect". You're getting cannabinoids that don't release with the iolite (fixed temp), and all vapes to some degree. You're also getting smoke byproducts, not cannabis related, that produce drowsiness. If you want to give vaporizing a fair shot, do that only for a while-no smoke.

On the Iolite, towards the end I find you have to suck like crazy to get anything out of it, there is very little visible vapour - I would like to buy something where you can EASILY pull in LOTS of THICK HIGH QUALITY VAPOUR.

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Sucking hard will get you less vapor, and you need to understand that vapor is far less visible than smoke. I can exhale under good lighting and see vapor, hit after hit, that isn't visible otherwise. There's a lot of visible vapor to the iolite. It just takes a few minutes to heat up the bowl area. The 1st hit or two, 90-120 seconds after turn on, is quite tasty, but the thicker vapor comes a little later. And of course it doesn't compete with a big hitting model.

Taste isn't great on the iolite or WISPR near the end. They seem to accentuate the bad 'most of the bowl is done' taste. That's why these models are better as portables-function over flavor.

I've looked at the Vapir No.2

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It's N02, not #2, and I'd forget about it. It's a portable and will have pretty much the same issues as the iolite, maybe worse in the taste dept. The others you mention are big hitters and you'd probably be satisified with any of 'em. With the LSV you need glass, since it's a wand vape. Either 7th Floor product would be preferable to me, vs the Extreme. Too much air in the hits for my taste, and the bowl is far from compact. As for bag fill, it's a nice option, but in general, most people who end up enjoying the vapor experience go with direct draw. Bagged vapor is diluted and somewhat stale, compared to direct draw. It's great for ease of use and sharing with those who don't know how to hit a direct draw model correctly, but most find that bags get boring. Either the LSV or SSV (DBV also, for that matter) will give you thick, rich hits, and cleaning is just the bong/bubbler (LSV), or wand (SSV/DBV), along with tubing (most just replace it after a while).

Thanks for replying so quickly Max. Which is the superior model between the SSV and DBV in your opinion?

This isn't a desktop vape but I ilke the ThermoVape T1. It is a great portable, silent, battery operated vape for herbs and with an adapter and their American made AVA atomizer, it works great for e-liquid (so you can stop combusting nicotine too). I've tried a lot of vaporizers for herbs and even more for e-liquids and so far, this is the one I've arrived at.

If you want a desktop for sure, I'd recommend the Arizer. I've had a good experience with my Extreme and once considered getting the 'Q' before I ended up finding the ThermoVape T1. The only thing I didn't like about the Extreme was the constant cleaning I had to do (mostly elbows and elbow screens). If you don't clean the screens it clogs quickly and if you don't clean the elbow, honey will drip into the whip pretty quickly.

I too think you getter a better feeling from cannabis + nicotine and I find e-liquid works well for the nic delivery. This is why I love the ThermoVape.

Links are in my signature.

cybervapor said:

This isn't a desktop vape but I ilke the ThermoVape T1. It is a great portable, silent, battery operated vape for herbs and with an adapter and their American made AVA atomizer, it works great for e-liquid (so you can stop combusting nicotine too). I've tried a lot of vaporizers for herbs and even more for e-liquids and so far, this is the one I've arrived at.

If you want a desktop for sure, I'd recommend the Arizer. I've had a good experience with my Extreme and once considered getting the 'Q' before I ended up finding the ThermoVape T1. The only thing I didn't like about the Extreme was the constant cleaning I had to do (mostly elbows and elbow screens). If you don't clean the screens it clogs quickly and if you don't clean the elbow, honey will drip into the whip pretty quickly.

I too think you getter a better feeling from cannabis + nicotine and I find e-liquid works well for the nic delivery. This is why I love the ThermoVape.

Links are in my signature.

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That Thermovape looks like an excellent design and is very tempting but I did have my mind set on a table top, fearing a portable may let me down on vapor production.

I already own an Ego C for vaping e-liquid and that works just fine but I still miss smoking a bit.

I'm torn between the SSV and the EQ. Slightly put off by having to hold the whip to the device with the SSV but it is such an impressive looking piece of equipment I could be swayed. The EQ appears to work well too but opinion varies so much on it; some love it others hate it with few in between.

I'm still very open to suggestions, there are so many more vapes now than when I first started and have time to consider the options.

Thanks for replying.

I would consider the HerbalAire before making your final choice. I use it in direct draw mode utilizing extra 5/8th screens to pin ground herb to the bottom of the crucible, although I didn't even grind my medicine for the first 6 months and everything was fine. I have dropped my HA from counter height twice and it just bounces off the slate floor and keeps on going, barely even marked the finish . . . The price is reasonable ($180 USD), extraction is excellent with all those tiny jets in there, it creates a mini convection tornado that extracts actives really well . . . even, dark brown ABV every time, never combustion. I don't do bags so I like the fact that the pump is separate and can be stored away. So I guess I kind of use my HA like a variable log vape and it works very well for me. Its worth a look at least.

I kinda have the same love and hate relationships with joints after smoking them for almost two and a half decades, so I know where you're coming from.

You should be good with any of the 7thfloor products, but I'd also like you to have a look at the HI and the Underdog. I find my UD more convenient to use as the SSV/DBV due to a lack of whip, and it hits just as hard. Possibly even harder when using smaller amounts.

The thick vapor it gives me is the best cure I've found so far to make me stop yearning for a j.

I sounds like you are missing CBD with your Iolite. CBD adds some effect to the high (mostly body feelings, but also modulates the head high itself). Also it slows down metabolism of THC, so if you get both, you high lasts longer. Iolite can't get CBD, it's too cold. For me, MFLB did it (especially with the PA).

Seek said:

I sounds like you are missing CBD with your Iolite. CBD adds some effect to the high (mostly body feelings, but also modulates the head high itself). Also it slows down metabolism of THC, so if you get both, you high lasts longer. Iolite can't get CBD, it's too cold. For me, MFLB did it (especially with the PA).

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Quite probably I am missing out on some CBD, however I must say, especially with the skunk that's been going in it recently (blue cheese) the Iolite has been doing it's job well! I don't want to knock the thing; it's been a great starting point and very handy for attending outdoor events, it's also great for stealth.

What I'm after now is a home vape that will noticably surpass the Iolite for vapour production and flavour, which will give me more of that sedative CBD and generally wreck me more. For the extra money I'm thinking of spending it had better surpass what I'm using already.

I'll be honest with you, at the moment I'm leaning more towards the EQ http://www.vapor-wellness.co.uk/Vaporizer/Extreme-Q-Vaporizer and the SS http://www.vapor-wellness.co.uk/Vaporizer/Silver-Surfer-SSV?XTCsid=4lkpca2h8scld7tt5ikhg4let1 . A big factor for me is whether the vape/parts are readily available where I live, most of them are - but not all.

I notice you use an EQ, is it version 4.0? How do you find the vapour production? Are there any downsides to it? How loud is the fan (they describe it as incredibly quiet)?

I would recommend SSV because of its much frendlier herb chamber. Both SSV and EQ need a lot of stiring and with SSV loading and stiring is much less hassle. Also as the air flows down in the SSV chamber it doesn't displace your herbs to less efficient areas in the chamber, that is also plus. EQ is very versatile, can do bags and stuff, but imo bags are oldschool. Imo SSV's user-friendlitivity compred to EQ wins.

misanthrope said:

I notice you use an EQ, is it version 4.0? How do you find the vapour production? Are there any downsides to it? How loud is the fan (they describe it as incredibly quiet)?

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I think I have just a bit older version. The 2012 can set change temp by 1 degree, my is jumping by 5. The actual unit is almost perfect. The heater can be powerful, terminal works as should and shows and let you set everything (includes the remote). The EQ is lightweight, durable (I've kicked my EQ in dark and it survived) and it's fan is quiet (F1 sounds like notebook fan, F3 like gaming PC's fans). The only but significant downside are the actual glass accesories for it. I hate the cyclone bowl and elbow. They could shape them much better - more user-friendly and efficiently.

I would get the Underdog log vape for vapour production & flavor! That thing is very strong and can handle itself.

I second the Silver Surfer. It's not the least expensive of the lot but it will blow you off of your seat. It's the higher end product although the DBV has a lot of fans and I'm sure you'd be very satisfied with it as well. The SSV is a simple no frills desktop vape - the unit and the whip. It's available with a very durable carrying case so you can use it at your friends' houses. Very quick warm up time. It was my first real vaporizer about four years ago and although it doesn't get used that much these days I don't see myself getting rid of it. If you're not averse to used and if you're patient and resourceful you can find a good working SSV for about 150 on your local Craigslist. 7th Floor is very good with repairs if necessary - they're a solid company - so there's no issue if you see a very good deal locally.

Check out this guy "tokin daily" on youtube - he's a distributor for 7th floor and he's made a lot of very entertaining and informative videos - that should give you more of a picture.

That said - the only caveat I would offer is, and I stand corrected because I haven't been following the SSV's evolution - the unit that I have is not hands free. I'm not sure if there is a hands free model but hundreds of people here know the answer to that.

Jeff, Tokin hasn't been a distributer for 7th floor for over a year now. It ended rather unpleasant when Tokin went MIA while he had already received payment for some outstanding orders if I remember correctly. There should be a video on YT where he apologizes for the whole mess I believe.

That said - the only caveat I would offer is, and I stand corrected because I haven't been following the SSV's evolution - the unit that I have is not hands free. I'm not sure if there is a hands free model but hundreds of people here know the answer to that.

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You can get the SSV in hands free version, but I wouldn't. The SSV with standard connection provides thicker hits (but requires some wand movement on the heater cover, and a stir or three). If one hand free is important, I'd get the DBV, which comes standard that way. It's a bargain buy from one of our retailers offering FC member discounts.

Thanks for the tips Guys! It's a real dilemma for me but I am edging towards the SSV because of it's reputation for thick vapour, despite the number of glass parts feeling a bit intimidating.

The log vape Elluzion and others have mentioned looks great but I'm not sure I want to wait for an import and did have a tabletop in mind.

At least I'm now narrowed down to two, it's SSV Vs EQ. I have read the thread of that title and left more confused than when I started, 'cos opinion varies quite a lot. I have a few more questions...

When packing the herb chamber do you need to use larger amounts of herb in the SSV or EQ as some people have mentioned only wanting to get an SSV if they had "limitless amounts of herbs"?
Where I live it's illegal, expensive and not very easy to get hold of quality herb so economy is an issue - I always thought the iolite was good for economy as half a joint's worth is AMPLE in there.

Do I have a fire risk with the SSV? I know the EQ has an auto shut off feature and I have a bad habit of falling asleep when getting stoned.

People have mentioned the bag system being "more sociable", but what's to stop me handing the whip to a friend?

The general consensus seems to be that as a whip vape the SSV is better, better by a mile or an inch?

Either way, they're both superior to the Iolite right?

I can't personally answer to any comparison because I've never used an EQ but it has a good reputation. The only question I would seriously ask about the EQ is how durable and rock solid it is as a unit - is it prone to breakdowns, etc. The SSV is a real solid well made performer and it's simple and very forgiving. What I mean by that is, when I first started out vaping and I bought the SSV after alot of google searching (this was before I was aware of this forum) I had no idea that I should grind the herb first. I would just rip off a small piece and put it in and it worked great without any preparation. The only vapes that are in my opinion 100 safe regards to fire would be the log vapes such as the CRZ - which is also a quality option. Also a log vape like the CRZ is definitely more efficient than any whip vape. And if you hook up a log vape to a bong you will in fact get monster hits that replicate what you would experience with the SSV, in my opinion.

Honestly I'd be more concerned with pets getting hurt than fire, the heating elements get very hot but I've never heard of a whip vape starting a fire.

Regarding your question about efficiency and the SSV, it is NOT a weed guzzler at all. You simply put the amount you want to put in and vape that, and when you think it's done, stir it around with the pokey stick that's included and you'll get a few more hits. Then save your spent vaporizables and when you have a half cup's worth you're ready for mind blowing brownies (the recipe with several variants is available on this forum).

I wouldn't stress out over thinking this because I think you'll, like most of us, eventually get bitten by the bug and collect a few different vapes as you go along that you'll enjoy for different moods or settings.

Any of these recommended units will serve you well, just pick the one that you get the best vibe from. All of these vapes can be viewed in action on youtube.

I made the jump from portable (MFLB and Solo) to the DBV and absolutely love it! I also have the HA which I like as well but, for some reason always use my DBV over the HA. I would have to put my vote in for the DBV especially if you don't care about custom glass knobs and stuff. Its a great every day vape IMO and was wonderful to use as a beginner. Looks like there is one in the Classifieds section right now for $110 shipped. You may want to jump on it.

The EQ has a glass heater cover and uses a glass cyclone bowl and a glass elbow. The glass heater cover is the most likely part to break, although it is a cheap part that can easily be replaced by the user. Any of the glass parts can lock together, sometimes irrevocably. Both the cyclone bowl and the elbow can break if you drop them on a hard surface. Even the tuff bowl can break when dropped despite the gawdawful ugly silicone sleeve.

All of the above has happened to me and my Extreme (the model preceding the EQ). If you want rugged/impossible to break, get a Herbalaire.

Having said that, using the elbow pack method with the EQ will deliver what you want.

Edit: I swear when I originally read this thread someone asked about the fragility of the EQ, but now I can't find that question anywhere. Oh well, now you know.

You should maybe think about a log style vape, like the HI or the aromazap. They're notorious for providing insanely huge clouds. The downside is the lack of portability, and the long heat up time. But they draw so little power that the heatup time doesn't really matter, because you can just keep it plugged in all the time.

talley said:

You should maybe think about a log style vape, like the HI or the aromazap. They're notorious for providing insanely huge clouds. The downside is the lack of portability, and the long heat up time. But they draw so little power that the heatup time doesn't really matter, because you can just keep it plugged in all the time.

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Ultimately I agree wholeheartedly. A log vape is the reason my beloved SSV hardly sees any use. It's a fixed temp vaporizer, you can safely keep it plugged in all the time and it's always ready for vaping. And with a bong you will get massive hits and even without you will get very respectable hits and flavor. You can't beat it for efficiency. I was a big advocate of the Purple Days "log vape" but it's out of business unfortunately. The CRZ (aromazap) is very good as well.

With the log vape there is a slight learning curve but it becomes very intuitive after a short while and it's a fun learning curve. You simply must have a grinder (I recommend the small two piece "space case") and it's advisable to let your bud dry out in the air for a few hours before grinding. Also with a log vape there's generally no glass to worry about - I mention this because that was a concern of yours. Still, you would be doing yourself a disservice by not experimenting with mating it with a glass bong so you can see what it's capable of. (Soul Shine Family Glass 10-12" straight tube, about $70 with shipping - highly recommended.)

It's understandable that these options are bewildering but the general consensus is that it's very good to have two high end vapes - a SSV and a log vape are considered among many as the best of both worlds. Either way you go you will not be disappointed.

Imo the HI could be the best choice, but I've heard people have to wait wait for these. It it a log vape, o efficient with small loads, heats quickly (for a log) and has adjustable power so it can etract anything you want.

I kinda feel like repeating my earlier recommendations. Again, I think a UD or HI is what you're looking for, especially if you want to keep your usage down to a minimum.

I'll stop echoing now, good luck on your search.

When packing the herb chamber do you need to use larger amounts of herb in the SSV or EQ as some people have mentioned only wanting to get an SSV if they had "limitless amounts of herbs"?

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You can vape small amounts in any vaporizer, although full sized whip models encourage you to load larger quantities. Unless you use the elbow screen in the E (which is a workaround for getting a decently thick hit), the SSV is more effective with a small load.

Do I have a fire risk with the SSV?

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It's possible to burn your bowl contents but that's about it. With any vape, no matter the model, start the temp low and find the setting where you start to get vapor. Move up in temp all the way to the point where your vapor is thick and harsh, and your ABV is very dark. That's your vapor range.

People have mentioned the bag system being "more sociable", but what's to stop me handing the whip to a friend?

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It's really more of a learning curve issue. Anyone can suck vapor from a bag, while draw speed on a whip vape plays a part in the vaping temp. Set your temp for a medium draw and two other people (one drawing too easy and the other too hard) can easily get a hit that's harsh and hot (drawing too easy), or one that's too light (drawing too hard). Most people who enjoy the vapor experience prefer direct draw. With bags your vapor is pretty much always the same-somewhat diluted (due to the fan or pump pushing all that air) and somewhat stale.

The general consensus seems to be that as a whip vape the SSV is better, better by a mile or an inch?

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Not everyone will have the same opinion, but I've used both and the E delivers too much air with the hits for me. I was always having to hydrate my throat. The SSV, with its narrow air stream coming out of the heater cover (standard connection, not the optional hands free GG), gives you more control over your hits than most any vape you can buy.

Either way, they're both superior to the Iolite right?

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The iolite is designed as a stealth portable, and even more than a portable like the Solo, for example, can't compete with a full sized corded vape for satisfying hits. I've been a happy iolite user since it first came out in '08, but I don't use it at home unless I'm outside and want to vape.

I'd go with the SSV, or cheaper but equally reliable DBV (if you want one hand free), and check everyonedoesit.com and vaposhop.com. Vaposhop offers a 10% discount to FC members- http://www.fuckcombustion.com/threads/retailer-discussion-discounts.1802/

If Phil Mitchell had a vape, it would be the SSV. It's a bad ass.

Joking aside I couldn't have kicked combustion without it to be honest, and I'd had a Volcano and Iolite for some time already when I got it. I could fairly confidently bet that you wouldn't be disappointed with it and you would be a happy customer. Same could be said of the EQ though I suppose, but maybe not quite as good for the smoking placebo.

+1 to what watTyler said but mine was a DBV. A good stealthy portable was key too since i roled my Js everywhere.