The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

grokit

well-worn member
:o
Brexit passed, which is a very big deal and will affect this election. It's not just the usa that's pissed off. There is a serious backlash to globalism happening, and walls are being built everywhere.


The day Brexit pushed the markets into freefall
Britain is facing a political and constitutional crisis. Expect action from the Bank of England to calm the markets
3500.jpg

The Bank of England Photograph: Stefan Rousseau/PA

Having highlighted the risks of a leave vote, it will be the job of Threadneedle Street and the Treasury to show they are in charge of events.

11 September 2001. 15 September 2008. To that list of huge stock market plunges, it looks as if historians will soon add 24 June 2016: the day the markets went into freefall when Britain voted to leave the European Union.


The City wasn’t even waiting for the final result to be announced. It was selling sterling long before the sun came up, driving the pound down to levels against the dollar not seen for 30 years.

The response was hardly a surprise. Markets in the final few days of the campaign had been rising in anticipation of a late swing to the remain side, a view confirmed by the last flurry of opinion polls. Shares and the pound were primed for a collapse in the event of a leave vote.

Earlier in the week, the legendary speculator, George Soros, predicted that Brexit would lead to a Black Friday in which the pound would lose 20% of its value. Sterling was nearly halfway towards meeting that forecast before dawn broke over the trading rooms of Canary Wharf.

Expect action from the Bank of England to calm the markets...

much more:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...e-day-brexit-pushed-the-markets-into-freefall
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/brexit-results-referendum_us_576c37d5e4b0f1683238e3d9
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-markets-idUSKCN0Z92MZ

:worms:
 
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yogoshio

Annoying Libertarian
Frankly, I am not surprised that Britain left the EU. Since they hadn't bought into the monetary system, they weren't completely stuck like Germany and others paying for the likes of Greece and Spain. When you give up sovereignty like that and all it does is slow down your own country, generally people want their money back.

To be fair, I am not well versed in all of this, but I have heard some of the high level arguments on both sides.
 
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His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
This morning Bernie said he would vote for Hillary and then said it's about making sure Trump does not win. I translate this as "He's not voting FOR Hillary. He's voting AGAINST Trump".

Kinda weird though.....I would have thought he would have announced he was stepping down and out at the same time. Maybe what he meant was if things remained as they are and Hillary gets the formal nomination this is how he would vote and....... his statement is not meant to mean it's over for him and he is ready to concede to Hillary.
 

yogoshio

Annoying Libertarian
When voting against someone becomes your motivation, you know the political system is completely shattered. No voting with conscience, no pride in your party affiliation or system, not feeling like you've actually voted for the right person, but just "against" someone.

Until we get 15% of a vote to a 3rd party candidate in a general election, it will never stop. Just :2c:
 

yogoshio

Annoying Libertarian
I actually really like Gary Johnson and his policies.

He wants to completely and utterly decriminalize marijuana, which would not only allow a free market system as opposed to limiting production, but would also allow its industrial uses as well, including construction materials, fiber materials, as well as agricultural uses of detoxifying land and restarting dead soil.

His stance on corporate welfare is awesome (he HATES it). His stance on social welfare is awesome (its broken and needs fixing, not just fixes).

His stance on government finances are amazing. He wants to freeze spending levels. The arbitrary annual increases have been slowly bankrupting us for decades, and its insane to assume a 7% economic growth rate no matter what and then not to adjust budget increases based on actual growth, which is super stupid, and makes the government spending levels increasingly disproportionate to the economic spending levels.

The Fair Tax would open up cash flow for small businesses and lower income families, while at the same time effectively increasing tax revenue by leveraging taxation on all non-food purchases, which research shows infinitely falls more heavily on the wealthiest 50% of the nation, while providing tax free exceptions for those at low income levels, and there are prebate programs for those who need assistance.

His stance on social issues is actually against my theological lifestyle, but I would rather the culture decide that all life is worth saving as opposed to forcing legislation. Real change doesn't come from politics but from culture. Politics is always a lagging indicator.

BUT, for all those who feel stuck in the two party system, voting for a 3rd party candidate would actually be voting for change which isn't the same thing as what @TeeJay1952 mentioned in my opinion.
 

His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
I've not hid my unhappiness with the ACA. I'm not wearing blinders either when it comes to the good things the ACA has brought about like eliminating the pre-exclusion clause and getting many more covered who couldn't afford it before the ACA.

My GP/doctor said I should steer clear of Blue Cross and use United Healthcare. United Healthcare said they will be dropping out of my state's ACA availability next year. The ACA premiums are going up further next year and the preferred provider will be out. So for more money.... you can choose the second class provider in my state/area.

My neighbor, a Hillary supporter, complained that his premiums had skyrocketed by more than 30% and that his deductible went up double and what's covered is costing more as well. I told him he's preaching to the choir when he should be feeling the Bern. Last night he told me he was going to have shoulder surgery and it was going to cost over $3000 which he found was damn near the same price he would have paid without coverage. The biggest benefit to him is he will be $3000 closer to meeting his deductible which he's pretty sure won't be met without something 'catastrophic' occurring. I asked him if he was still supporting Hillary ;)

Yeah - Lets defend and build on the ACA ........... cause it's been such a smashing success so far and looks like it will be getting even better next year.
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I saw Bernie last night on a late night show, Seth Meyers and he said he wants to influence the democratic platform. He wants the dem to embrace some of his ideas. He's not going to get it all but maybe some.

Edit
Gary Johnson has some good ideas. We already have a tax on goods in the state where I live anything like toilet paper, cars furniture, houses etc....so I would not want a double tax on what I already pay.

I was curious about rich people paying their fair share of taxes. I didn't see Gary Johnson's ideas about medical insurance for folks. He wants to get rid of obamacare and replace it with what? Obamacare isn't perfect but it's better than what we had which was nothing.

He wants to raise social security ages. Now I need to be 66.7 before I'm eligible to draw from social security. Maybe his ideas wouldn't effect someone over 55?

I need to vote for someone that will blow Trump's chance of winning the presidency but Gary Johnson doesn't have the personality to move people to his side. I know people shouldn't depend on personality to vote for a candidate. That's why Hillary is having such a tough time, no personality while she's speaking to large groups. She comes off better on a one on one interview.

I keep adding to this post. It makes a big difference to me if Donald Trump paid nothing or a little in taxes. Some folks say it doesn't matter, well it does to me. In fact it really pisses me off because we pay a lot in taxes.

I'm talking about the combination with our fed taxes and our state taxes along with our property tax. We live where gas taxes are the highest in the U.S. Our cannabis tax is through the roof so is our booze tax. If the Feds don't tax you to death our states do.

I'm sure Trump pays a lot in property tax but since he probably pays very little fed tax that's an issue for me. That is something that needs to be changed. I would like to see that addressed. I see the Clintons and the Obamas paid a lot in fed taxes. If you are a millionaire you pay taxes but a billionaire doesn't? I don't believe Trump is worth 10 billion dollars.
 
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yogoshio

Annoying Libertarian
He would rather let the medical world abolish the middle men of insurance companies, and let it look MUCH more like elective plastic surgery, where people have to actually compete for patients and procedures. He does promote hazard insurance to cover ER instances, but thinks that should be elective and not mandatory.


When my uncle paid cash for a minor heart procedure, he negotiated a rate which was roughly 10% of the cost that it normally would have under the "negotiated best rates" through his private insurance. He saved about $22,500.

My current job is actually to help doctors get the best rates for any procedures they do by adding services and tests that will help increase their reimbursement, and groups that negotiate with insurance companies negotiate to increase reimbursement as opposed to decreased and help reduce costs. I am fervently trying to find a new job. My job used to be trying to get docs the best deal on supplies, but with the changes in the ACA and how fee for service is being replaced with fee for value, overall reimbursement is moving towards overall health improvements, so those that are chronically ill are going to be kicked out of their current physicians because many docs will not want to take a 14% reduction in collections because their patient won't go on a diet or take his meds regularly.

In regards to double taxation, there would be no more double taxation of corporate and private income, but whatever companies buy they would pay taxes on. In terms of personal taxation, you'd no longer be paying taxes per paycheck, so you're already paying double taxes, but in different ways. And add on top of that the insanity that is the IRS tax form allocation process. It would also greatly reduce the cost of tax collection as it would be automatic and require infinitely less oversight.

His stance on social security is actually MUCH closer to its inception, when the average age of a working citizen when they died was 58 as opposed to 78. We have not increased the age of social security as tied to average life as it was when the bill was written. Much like we tie some budgets and monetary issues to changing circumstances, I believe we should make those transitions as well. But yes, it would not affect anyone currently over specific ages, albeit I don't know that number off the top of my head.

And at my current income level, under the Sanders plan, my taxes would go up 36%. No thanks. And frankly, the government sucks at efficiency when it comes to spending, as well as when it comes to negotiation. If we would apply Six Sigma practices and reduce the redundancies in the government structure, we would already save over 25% in our federal budget right now. I am hard pressed to give the government more of my money when they already are horrifically inefficient with it. For anyone interested, how our government is structured (in regards to its internal structure, not the separation of powers), its modeled after business practices of the late 1800s early 1900s. And anyone even remotely aware of economic history knows that the business models of that time were horrifically inefficient and ineffective overall, unless you were running a monopoly or had vertical and horizontal control of your market.

If we stopped subsidizing the multi-billion dollar middle men of insurance companies, the costs of medical services would naturally reduce to usable levels. Will medicaid/medicare still need to exist? Likely yes, but will they be the fund-sucking, never ending increase to our national debt? No.
 
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CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

Sanders Pushes Marijuana Reform in Democratic Platform
0
By Tom Angell on JUNE 24, 2016Law & Politics, People, Uncategorized


Federal marijuana law reform could become an official part of the national Democratic Party Platform. That’s if supporters of presidential candidate Bernie Sanders have their way.

“You want real change in this country, you want it now and are prepared to take on the political cowardice and powerful special interests which have prevented that change from happening,” Sanders, a U.S. senator from Vermont, wrote in an email to his supporters. “One place we think the agenda of these 12 million Americans should be reflected is in the official platform of the Democratic Party.”

The email links to a form where Sanders supporters can choose the issues they think are most important to put into the platform. One of the 24 options reads, “Remove marijuana from the federal Controlled Substance Act.”



During the course of his campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination, Sanders has staked out a marijuana law reform position that goes further than any other serious candidate has. In addition to calling for the descheduling of marijuana and pushing the federal government to respect state cannabis laws, Sanders said he would personally vote for legalization if it were on the ballot in his state.

An analysis by Marijuana.com earlier this week found that at least 12 state Democratic Party platforms this year are calling for cannabis law reform. That raises questions about when the national party will officially get on board with supporting legalization. Polls show that a significant majority of Democratic voters are in favor of ending prohibition, and a growing number of the party’s elected officials in Congress and state legislatures are actively working to enact cannabis legislation.



Read more http://www.marijuana.com/blog/news/2016/06/sanders-pushes-marijuana-reform-in-democratic-platform/
 

His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
I've not hid my unhappiness with the ACA. I'm not wearing blinders either when it comes to the good things the ACA has brought about like eliminating the pre-exclusion clause and getting many more covered who couldn't afford it before the ACA.

My GP/doctor said I should steer clear of Blue Cross and use United Healthcare. United Healthcare said they will be dropping out of my state's ACA availability next year. The ACA premiums are going up further next year and the preferred provider will be out. So for more money.... you can choose the second class provider in my state/area.

My neighbor, a Hillary supporter, complained that his premiums had skyrocketed by more than 30% and that his deductible went up double and what's covered is costing more as well. I told him he's preaching to the choir when he should be feeling the Bern. Last night he told me he was going to have shoulder surgery and it was going to cost over $3000 which he found was damn near the same price he would have paid without coverage. The biggest benefit to him is he will be $3000 closer to meeting his deductible which he's pretty sure won't be met without something 'catastrophic' occurring. I asked him if he was still supporting Hillary ;)

Yeah - Lets defend and build on the ACA ........... cause it's been such a smashing success so far and looks like it will be getting even better next year.

Article from this morning.....BCBS is leaving the Minnesota ACA because it is costing them too much.

How come.... insurance companies can opt out but people can't?

Why is it that....Unless you're broke you go broke using it?

Maybe all the major carriers will leave the ACA and the only approach left will be single payer.....if this was the hidden agenda the entire time please hurry the hell up then!
 

yogoshio

Annoying Libertarian
Odds are the ACA will bankrupt itself based on the delays in implementation that Obama randomly decided. Then it will either be completely erased due to lack of funds, or there will be some other knee-jerk reaction that will make it worse. Thus is the current course of modern politics.
 

grokit

well-worn member
It's actually marco rubio that is making these companies abandon the more challenging exchanges. He got the feds to welsh on the "risk corridor" payments required by the aca law, so these insurance companies have to pull out of the areas where they are most needed. We're not paying them what we promised to.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
“Now There’s Revolution, But They Don’t Know What They’re Fighting…”
by D.R. Tucker
June 25, 2016 11:30 AM

“Just one more thing: you know, I’m just as fearful [as you are of] Donald Trump, but, you know, but when it comes to that, I’m not exactly sure I’m down with Hillary [Clinton]. I’m gonna sit this one out, I think. I’m really gonna sit this one out, I think.”

“Luis,” a Bernie Sanders supporter, to host Brad Friedman on the “BradCast” on KPFK-FM, Los Angeles, California, June 15, 2016

Can somebody please explain what was ever accomplished by not voting?

Two weeks ago, I noted that it was a shame to see Bernie Sanders “fall into the same intellectual abyss that the progressive radio host Sam Seder fell into three years ago, during the special election to fill the seat left vacant by the passing of New Jersey Senator Frank Lautenberg–the intellectual abyss that prevents one from recognizing the moral difference between a imperfect Democrat and a dangerous Republican.” To his credit, Sanders is now trying to figure a way out of that abyss, but some of his supporters still aren’t bothering to do so.

Supposedly committed progressives who refuse to vote in the general election because they can’t get over Sanders’s failure to secure the Democratic nomination are morally indistinguishable from the conservatives (such as former Bush speechwriter Peter Wehner) who refuse to vote in the general election because they believe that Clinton and Trump are equally loathsome. Do Sanders supporters who say they will not vote in the general election really believe that the Vermont Senator was the victim of a conspiracy by the “Democratic establishment” to deny him the nomination? I don’t deny that Sanders was the recipient of unfair treatment by the mainstream press–a problem that would have only become worse in a general election–but the argument that the primary game was rigged against Sanders by the “Democratic establishment” is dubious at best. Had Sanders and his advisers bothered to develop a strategy for appealing to voters of color, he would have defeated Clinton soundly in the primary.

Why, exactly, do these Sanders supporters plan to throw a non-voting hissy fit? Are these folks going to continue to pout and moan if Clinton wins on November 8 without their assistance? Do these people realize just how obnoxious and offensive they sound to people who don’t believe the Clinton-as-horrible-hack-and-corporate-comforter thesis? What’s the difference, in terms of logic and maturity, between the Sanders dead-enders and the folks who were bamboozled by Brexit?

It’s as though the folks who casually suggest that they will not vote because their preferred candidate will not be on the general-election ballot have forgotten about everyone who fought and in some cases died to secure the right for all Americans to vote. It is unconscionable to abandon this right out of spite.

Remember when right-wingers threw a fit over a radio ad the Missouri Democratic Party ran in the fall of 1998, warning of the problems that would occur if progressives, particularly progressives of color, chose not to vote? As the New York Times reported that year:

The Democrats have not been timid either. In Missouri, the state Democratic Party has begun running a radio commercial with a bald appeal to blacks: ”When you don’t vote, you let another church explode,” the narrator says. ‘”When you don’t vote, you allow another cross to burn. When you don’t vote, you let another assault [weapon] wound a brother or a sister. When you don’t vote, you let the Republicans continue to cut school lunches and Head Start.”

One wonders if the Clinton campaign will attempt to run a new version of this ad, this time aimed not at progressives of color but at the self-righteous Bernie-backers who think they’re too good to vote for anyone besides Sanders, who seem not to care about the vulnerable people who would be hurt under a Trump Administration, who have forgotten that progressives aren’t supposed to be elitists. Then again, the Clinton campaign probably won’t bother, reasoning that the folks who need to hear such an ad won’t be able to do so, since their heads are in a location where it’s hard to hear anything.
 

turk

turk
...it's always funny how the dems get all existential when they are called on their bullshit...I'm NOT voting for hillary..and I really don't feel like I owe these pricks an explanation...just like they didn't owe me an explanation ...or an apology when they refused to count the black vote in florida...or when they refused to go after the banks for redlining... or refused to adequately fund black schools..or address police misconduct....it just goes on and on...fuck them.
 

HellsWindStaff

Dharma Initiate
I've not hid my unhappiness with the ACA. I'm not wearing blinders either when it comes to the good things the ACA has brought about like eliminating the pre-exclusion clause and getting many more covered who couldn't afford it before the ACA.

My GP/doctor said I should steer clear of Blue Cross and use United Healthcare. United Healthcare said they will be dropping out of my state's ACA availability next year. The ACA premiums are going up further next year and the preferred provider will be out. So for more money.... you can choose the second class provider in my state/area.

My neighbor, a Hillary supporter, complained that his premiums had skyrocketed by more than 30% and that his deductible went up double and what's covered is costing more as well. I told him he's preaching to the choir when he should be feeling the Bern. Last night he told me he was going to have shoulder surgery and it was going to cost over $3000 which he found was damn near the same price he would have paid without coverage. The biggest benefit to him is he will be $3000 closer to meeting his deductible which he's pretty sure won't be met without something 'catastrophic' occurring. I asked him if he was still supporting Hillary ;)

Yeah - Lets defend and build on the ACA ........... cause it's been such a smashing success so far and looks like it will be getting even better next year.

I bet your neighbor voted for Obama too....I've no sympathy *shrug* the idea rates would rise, options would be lessened, and the middle class would be raped by it were all very well documented. It sucks that it's like that now, and I have sympathy for the medical problems, but this is what he wanted right? As it was heavily talked about as effects ACA would have......

@turk i don't disagree but I have a question, do you think that Dems (or Repubs, not sure who caters to them more though I think Dems) keep low income earners stuck in a cycle they can't get out of?

Just for example, my roommate is trying to find a place in the city. His dad owns some low income housing alartments. He just got a job at the school that would pay him 32k a year (16 an hour or something), not the highest paying job, but he gets 96% off tuition.

That job would make him ineligible for the housing because he'd make too much....and rent was $800.

So making 2000ish a month (cause taxes), is too much. He could pay his rent, save some money, and live on 2k save money to get into a better area and better housing. School too if he didn't get the tuition discount.

But since 2k is too much, you have to make less to stay in this 800 apartment. Consequentially, he can't save as much because he literally can't make as much. That seems very much like the system keeping people down.

I said Dems because I assumed they were the ones who pushed for low income housing but I could be wrong.
 
HellsWindStaff,

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
...it's always funny how the dems get all existential when they are called on their bullshit...I'm NOT voting for hillary..and I really don't feel like I owe these pricks an explanation...just like they didn't owe me an explanation ...or an apology when they refused to count the black vote in florida...or when they refused to go after the banks for redlining... or refused to adequately fund black schools..or address police misconduct....it just goes on and on...fuck them.
There was a big fuck up with the votes in Florida back in 2000. Maybe you are too young to remember? The hanging chads. It was a disaster. Florida should have had to vote again. With proper equipment that would do the job. The Republicans ended up winning the presidency because of the republicans in office in FL. Also a Fuck You to James Baker.

We had a disaster when Bush became president. The U.S is still recovering. The economy is still trying to recover and what happened in Iraq and elsewhere will never be the same. We opened up Pandora's box.

I can't even fathom Trump, what fuck ups will happen? I agree Hillary is a poor choice for the demo but Trump would be horrible. George Bush seems rather good compared to him.

Edit
I agree @turk Al Gore was a horrible choice. That guy is the most boring speaker.
 
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turk

turk
...I'm 64... Remember it well...dems fucked up..(what they didn't bother to look at the ballots...before the election?!)...gore couldn't win his own fucking state...or clintons...and they wanna blame Nader..?!..and the dems didn't stand up for the black vote...or 2nd the black caucus challenge of the court..fuck them...there's always a excuse why...they fucked up..i wouldn't piss on them...if they were on fire...
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
In Florida it seems like they have been having problems with their voting system. Folks standing in long lines for hours in the heat. Making it difficult for folks to cast their votes whether your demo or rep. Is it a problem there? Just curious. I'm seeing this on the news where I live across the U.S do you have a problem @turk in your area?

Why can't they have a mail in ballot? That's what we do here in WA state. Maybe the citizens of FL could ask for that.
 
CarolKing,
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turk

turk
...problems here are different..this is sf...there is NO functioning repub. party here...the dens control all elective positions...many times candidates...(city Attny, treasurer, assessor) run unopposed..they control every elective office....yet...graduation rates of blacks still lag...police brutality is rampant...cost of living here is through the roof...they could care less...I make no apologies that I'm much further to the left..then the Democratic Party..
 

lwien

Well-Known Member
Hey turk. At 64, ya gotta lighten up on the anger man. Not healthy.....

The sad part here is that for the most part, the angriest demographic of our population are those over 65 and at that age and beyond, the LAST thing that we should be is.............angry.

And being angry at politicians because they don't do what we want them to do is kind of an oxymoron, no?
 

turk

turk
...of course you are right lwien...but sometimes I feel like I'm stuck in a time loop...the black panther party talked about police violence over 40 years ago...nothing has changed...Muhammad Ali talked about the futility/stupidity of war...nothing has changed...we just don't learn...it's the vaping that keeps me sane...
 
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