Crafty/Crafty+ by Storz & Bickel

[Roth]

Really? I thought it wouldn't charge the battery until it cooled off enough.

That's good to know that I can upgrade to the mighty.

That is correct, if the unit senses that the battery is too warm, it won't charge. However, that does not mean you can't have it charging while it's on. It's not a pass through system, and is most likely pretty terrible on your battery. It's generally not a good idea to charge and discharge a battery at the same time.

So yes, you could have the unit plugged in while using it, but not for long. Soon it will get too hot and won't charge anymore. Plus, the unit draws more current then the charge provides (I believe the heater output is somewhere in the mid 30W range, and it only gets 10W incoming from the charger).

 

[Stinky]

the crafty is on mass drop for 270$

Puffitup has been matching the lowest drop price on Massdrop lately for people that don't want to wait.

Tell them you are from FC also.

 

[Vital]

Just picked up a Ryot case for my Crafty/Persei/Herc and I no longer have smelly drawers!

A washing machine works great to remove the stink from smelly drawers. (Sorry couldn't resist!)

 

[WakeAndVape]

That is correct, if the unit senses that the battery is too warm, it won't charge. However, that does not mean you can't have it charging while it's on. It's not a pass through system, and is most likely pretty terrible on your battery. It's generally not a good idea to charge and discharge a battery at the same time.

So yes, you could have the unit plugged in while using it, but not for long. Soon it will get too hot and won't charge anymore. Plus, the unit draws more current then the charge provides (I believe the heater output is somewhere in the mid 30W range, and it only gets 10W incoming from the charger).

I MUST be missing something, from everything I have read the crafty does have passthrough. It just has to be over 20% charged to utilize it and neither the mighty nor crafty charges and heats simultaneously

 

[Stinky]

I MUST be missing something, from everything I have read the crafty does have passthrough. It just has to be over 20% charged to utilize it and neither the mighty nor crafty charges and heats simultaneously

My Mighty charges and heats simultaneously.

 

[UnshavenFish]

Its actually the other way around according to S&B in an Q&A or FAQ I read somewhere. They say they get 6 sessions per charge, and that its maintaining the high temperature that uses the most battery. They said Instead of running it at the high temp and keeping it going hot with minute breaks in between vaping, your better off turning it off and back on when your ready to toke because the high temp is what drains the battery. Where exactly I saw that I'm not sure.

I tried to answer this the night you posted but was way too baked and had to remove my post as it didn't make a whole lot of sense.

I would stand by my post that in general maintaining temp uses less power than heat up (I could be wrong though I'm no expert), I would agree with high temp draining the battery and that keeping the crafty running (if not hitting it) is wasting power, but I would read it as saying not to wait until the 1 min auto shut off but to turn the crafty off straight after your hit, then turning it on when ready for the next hit. I do think this will be useful advise for some users but it will depend on how they use the crafty, if like me you only wait 5-15 seconds between hits IMO it won't make too much difference, but if you like to take it a little slower say 15-45 seconds between hits then the power used to re-reach temp and take your hit should be less than keeping the crafty running at temp.

I still am a little baked (as always) but in general I think they are saying not to wait until the 1 min auto off as after your hit the power used to maintain temp is wasted (IMO depending on time between hits)

I would love to keep my bowl sparkling but the magic eraser seems like it would have strange chemicals that I might not want to inhale.

What chemicals does the magic eraser have? It is non toxic iirc...but do an iso swab after and a burn off. It WILL get your bowl nice, I have NEVER tasted or smelled any foreign chemicals or compounds after I used it either...seems better than 'seems' and 'mights' in the scientific testing department?

I think there is something in magic eraser that is bad to inhale (can't remember the name of it) but I also think it was harmful in large amounts, however I still use it for many of my vapes as it really does work great for things ISO alone won't shift, and as @WakeAndVape said an ISO swab and burn off is all that is needed after to get rid of anything that may have been left behind.

I MUST be missing something, from everything I have read the crafty does have passthrough. It just has to be over 20% charged to utilize it and neither the mighty nor crafty charges and heats simultaneously

Yes the crafty can be used while charging but it's not true passthrough (it still runs off the battery not direct from the charger) that's why it needs a partial charge to work.

And like @Stinky my crafty charges and heats at the same time (just did a little test) or at least it still draws the same power from the charger whether normal charging, charging while heat up and charging while drawing.

 

[alecsys]

I MUST be missing something, from everything I have read the crafty does have passthrough. It just has to be over 20% charged to utilize it and neither the mighty nor crafty charges and heats simultaneously

the crafty definitely has no real pass-through! I have talked to a german S&B engineer by phone regarding this matter.

(I believe the heater output is somewhere in the mid 30W range, and it only gets 10W incoming from the charger).

Roth is spot on here, heater output is 27W on crafty (30W on Mighty) and crafty is getting 10W from the charger ...

 

[jojo monkey]

@UnshavenFish magic eraser = melamine foam. You are cleaning with tiny scratches.

 

[WakeAndVape]

the crafty definitely has no real pass-through! I have talked to a german S&B engineer by phone regarding this matter.

Makes sense, but it still does have passthrough. That's why it has to be 20% for the pass through to work. I understand it isn't 'true ' pass through (drawing NO power from the battery)

For example, everything I read on the solo says you can't use the standard charger for the passthrough and if you do, there is a high chance of damaging the unit.

I use my crafty while charging all the time

 

[Roth]

Makes sense, but it still does have passthrough. That's why it has to be 20% for the pass through to work. I understand it isn't 'true ' pass through (drawing NO power from the battery)

For example, everything I read on the solo says you can't use the standard charger for the passthrough and if you do, there is a high chance of damaging the unit.

I use my crafty while charging all the time

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the word, but I understand "pass through" charging as meaning the the electric current from the wall adapter is powering the unit itself, bypassing, or "passing through" the battery without charging it.

The Mighty uses a 30W heater, and gets 36W incoming from its charger. So when plugged in, with a completely drained battery, you're able to power up the heater and use it without issue.

However, the Crafty uses a 27W heater, but only gets 10W incoming from its charger (due to using USB). This is why you can't plug in a completely drained Crafty, and have it work. The incoming 10W isn't enough to power the 27W heater. So you're always using the battery to heat up the Crafty, it's just the battery is being charged simultaneously.

While you can use your Crafty while charging it, it's generally recommended to NOT do so for battery life. It's very stressful on a battery to charge and discharge at the same time.

So no, I don't think it's a pass through system at all. Doesn't really matter though, it's just semantics at this point.

 

[bigmouth]

@chiefcombuster1 and @UnshavenFish

For the record, like Jon Snow, I know nothing lol. But I've definitely wondered myself whether reheating or maintaining temperature uses more power, and I think we're on the verge of an answer. Here's what the Storz & Bickel FAQ says:

The performance of a charged battery depends very much on user habits. It is most efficient to heat up the Vaporizer, then immediately start with vaporization. Don’t make long breaks between your draws as it requires energy to maintain the temperature on the level you have chosen. After you’re done, switch off the device immediately. It requires less energy to reheat the device from time to time, rather than keeping the temperature on a vaporization heat level. It is quite clear - higher temperatures need more energy than lower temperatures. According to our experiences, a fully charged CRAFTY allows the vaporization of up to 5 Filling Chamber loads, depending on ambient conditions and user habits. The MIGHTY has double battery capacity, therefore serves up to 10 Filling Chamber loads.

The way I read that is, keeping the temp at a set level always requires more energy than reheating, so it's always better to turn off the unit between uses. The reference to "long breaks between draws" is a little confusing, but I think they're saying don't even wait for the 1-minute shutoff timer between hits. They're emphasizing just how much maintaining a set temp drains the battery.

 

[Roth]

@chiefcombuster1 and @UnshavenFish

For the record, like Jon Snow, I know nothing lol. But I've definitely wondered myself whether reheating or maintaining temperature uses more power, and I think we're on the verge of an answer. Here's what the Storz & Bickel FAQ says:



The way I read that is, keeping the temp at a set level always requires more energy than reheating, so it's always better to turn off the unit between uses. The reference to "long breaks between draws" is a little confusing, but I think they're saying don't even wait for the 1-minute shutoff timer between hits. They're emphasizing just how much maintaining a set temp drains the battery.

Interesting, definitely something I've wondered for a bit.

If you're hitting it with a short time frame between hits (less then 5-10 seconds), I think it's pretty clear it's better to leave the unit at the set temp. I wonder at what point it's better to start turning the device off between hits like mentioned.

I usually take anywhere from 30-90 seconds between hits, depending on lots of factors. I think I need to try turning it off immediately. I'll just need to remember to turn it back on 15 seconds before I'm ready to hit it. More work, but if I'm able to eek out another bowl from the battery, definitely worth it to me.

 

[bigmouth]

Interesting, definitely something I've wondered for a bit.

If you're hitting it with a short time frame between hits (less then 5-10 seconds), I think it's pretty clear it's better to leave the unit at the set temp. I wonder at what point it's better to start turning the device off between hits like mentioned.

I usually take anywhere from 30-90 seconds between hits, depending on lots of factors. I think I need to try turning it off immediately. I'll just need to remember to turn it back on 15 seconds before I'm ready to hit it. More work, but if I'm able to eek out another bowl from the battery, definitely worth it to me.

It is a fascinating question, but I personally am inclined to leave the unit powered on between hits. In that scenario, whatever marginal power savings I get are almost certainly exceeded by the marginal inconvenience of having to remember to turn it on and off. Plus, there has to be some wear and tear on the power button itself each time you press it.

If we're talking about between bowls, however, I always turn it off. Not just for the power savings but because I like the bowl cooler when I pack it to minimize wasted vapor.

 

[UnshavenFish]

I'm happy to admit when I'm wrong and it seems I am with regards to maintaining temp using less power than heat up in general (with the crafty anyways), but I do still think there are some situations where the opposite is true depending on variables, the main being user usage and temp used.

for instance using high temps, if you heat the crafty up then take hits with only 5-15 seconds between hits until bowl is done (so for me getting maybe 6 big hits from a full bowl maybe wastes around 50 seconds of power, based on five 10 second waits) IMO this would use less overall power than heating the crafty taking a hit turning it off then waiting let's say 60 seconds heat back up then take next hit, continuing until bowl is done (although turning off between hits waiting 60 seconds will use less power than maintaining temp for the 60 seconds between hits) my guess would be that here the 50 seconds of wasted power is less than the power used to reheat the bowl 5 times after a 60 second cool down each time.

I think it will depend on things like temp used, how much the crafty cools between hits (as this will effect the power used to re-heat), and the main one how long waited between hits.

Whichever way is best I will stick to my usage, heat it up then hit it hard and fast till done, as I have had 6 bowls from a full charge so 1 better than S&B claim although bowls per charge isn't really something with my usage of the crafty (not my daily driver) I'm too bothered about, infact lately I haven't been letting it get empty or charging it full, just keeping it sort of in the middle charging after everyother bowl for 45-60 mins.

 

[Roth]

It is a fascinating question, but I personally am inclined to leave the unit powered on between hits. In that scenario, whatever marginal power savings I get are almost certainly exceeded by the marginal inconvenience of having to remember to turn it on and off. Plus, there has to be some wear and tear on the power button itself each time you press it.

If we're talking about between bowls, however, I always turn it off. Not just for the power savings but because I like the bowl cooler when I pack it to minimize wasted vapor.

Talking about between hits, definitely turn it off between bowls.

Agreed that it's a pain, but sometimes that extra bowl from the battery might be pretty important (concert/festival/etc). So something I'll experiment with for when it's needed.

 

[UnshavenFish]

Plus, there has to be some wear and tear on the power button itself each time you press it.

Also a good maybe overlooked point, I think there has only been one report of a power button failure here but it's something to consider.

I know with my SSV I don't turn it off with the dial (I turn it all the way down let it cool a little then unplug) as I know it will wear out over time, but with the crafty (and many others) there is no way around this, I do however think the button should last years unless pressed overly hard repeatadly , so maybe worth remembering that it doesn't take much effort to turn the unit on, no matter how eager you are to enjoy it.

 

[WakeAndVape]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the word, but I understand "pass through" charging as meaning the the electric current from the wall adapter is powering the unit itself, bypassing, or "passing through" the battery without charging it.

The Mighty uses a 30W heater, and gets 36W incoming from its charger. So when plugged in, with a completely drained battery, you're able to power up the heater and use it without issue.

However, the Crafty uses a 27W heater, but only gets 10W incoming from its charger (due to using USB). This is why you can't plug in a completely drained Crafty, and have it work. The incoming 10W isn't enough to power the 27W heater. So you're always using the battery to heat up the Crafty, it's just the battery is being charged simultaneously.

While you can use your Crafty while charging it, it's generally recommended to NOT do so for battery life. It's very stressful on a battery to charge and discharge at the same time.

So no, I don't think it's a pass through system at all. Doesn't really matter though, it's just semantics at this point.

Got what your saying. And it looks like heating and maintaining heat is going to be another big discussion.

Generally if I use the crafty in the car, while connected to the charger and I'm also looking at the app...

The battery bars show the battery is being charged when the crafty REACHES and maintains temp, but NOT on HEAT UP.

So theoretically (i could very well be wrong) the crafty takes about 2 minutes to heat up (and pulls ALOT of juice from the battery)...BUT after that heat up time, when the crafty app animations show the bar being filled up, is it truly being filled or not?

If it is being charged while maintaining a set temp with no draw on the battery, It can passthrough on SOME level right?
Generally speaking, if using the crafty while plugged in, even though the heating would require a lot of power, it spends so little time doing so that it evens it out?

 

[Roth]

The battery bars show the battery is being charged when the crafty REACHES and maintains temp, but NOT on HEAT UP.

So theoretically (i could very well be wrong) the crafty takes about 2 minutes to heat up (and pulls ALOT of juice from the battery)...BUT after that heat up time, when the crafty app animations show the bar being filled up, is it truly being filled or not?

I believe it is charging the whole time, but there is a reason you only see the app animations that show charging occurring part of the time. The reason is the difference in power used to power incoming through the charger.

When heating up from cold, it's using the full power of the heater (27W), which is more then what's coming in from the charger (10W). Therefore it's a net loss on battery level. However, once the vape is at temp, it no longer has to use the full 27W. Once it's using less then 10W, it's a net positive on battery level, thus you see the animation showing it.

So yes, you can absolutely use it while charging. Just be aware that you're shortening your battery life by doing so.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[JustsVapeityo]

Got my "fixed" Crafty back on Friday afternoon, by Saturday afternoon I was getting one use per charge and charge time was 20 min to full. Now unit won't respond unless plugged in. Got a few uses with it plugged in, but now I get a flash of red and a little yellow. Really disappointing that I got to use my unit for less then two days after getting it back from being "fixed". I sent unit in originally because the bottom was getting hot enough to not want to touch before the unit reached default temp and heat up times had gone up to around 4 minutes.

 

[Roth]

Got my "fixed" Crafty back on Friday afternoon, by Saturday afternoon I was getting one use per charge and charge time was 20 min to full. Now unit won't respond unless plugged in. Got a few uses with it plugged in, but now I get a flash of red and a little yellow. Really disappointing that I got to use my unit for less then two days after getting it back from being "fixed". I sent unit in originally because the bottom was getting hot enough to not want to touch before the unit reached default temp and heat up times had gone up to around 4 minutes.

Wow, that's unfortunate that you're having such bad luck. I think I'd request a new unit this time, just to make sure.

 

[vts]

From my 1 month use of the Crafty, I have found that using my Crafty leaving power on after each hit doesn't waste any more battery life than turning it off after every hit. When I first got the Crafty I would power it off after every hit, but now I just leave it on throughout my session (including boost) and it seems to be the same. I get about 4-5 sessions and then I need to recharge, regardless.

 

[Roth]

From my 1 month use of the Crafty, I have found that using my Crafty leaving power on after each hit doesn't waste any more battery life than turning it off after every hit. When I first got the Crafty I would power it off after every hit, but now I just leave it on throughout my session (including boost) and it seems to be the same. I get about 4-5 sessions and then I need to recharge, regardless.

What's your average time between hits?

That's going to be the biggest factor to decide whether it's worth it or not.

 

[Michel]

Interesting thoughts here in this thread... I'll try to add what I mean to know with my non-technical English vocabulary:

In general it depends a lot on the isolation provided by the housing, the thermal conductivity and the mass of the heater (combined with the wattage the power source can deliver) to answer the question which of both ways is more energy saving, turning off or maintaining temps between hits.
Since the heater of the crafty hasn't a large heat capacity I would think heating up doesn't consume much power and perhaps even less than maintaining temp, too. But this is not what I experienced with the pretty weak power source so far after 6 month of stealth usage. Every time I have to interupt a session for some minutes I loose quite a lot batterie power if resuming several times before killing a bowl. The very long heat up time is already an indicator for the heavy power consumption in relation to the weak battery and the quite powerful heater.
The grasshopper, the MFLB , the elevape, the Pax 2 and as best example the herbalizer and of course any other vape with very short heat up time generally posses a heater with a very small mass and a small heat capacity combined with powerful energy sources. Those vapes could (or even must) turned off and they'll cool down as fast they're heating up. Most large desktop vapes with solid heaters are just behaving the opposite way like the MV, the Plenty, the cloud Evo, the e-nano. Better leave them turned on since the heater doesn't consume much power once its heated to a preset temperature. Best example here is the plenty: it does very clearly stop heating in intervals. Much unscientific talk from my side for not so much information, so please correct me if I made a logical mistake... I don't really know if what I wrote above makes really sense.
To come to an conclusion:
Like some of you already said time in between hits is the biggest factor with the crafty. Imo if someone makes a big break between drawing and the unit would shut off by itself anyways, why wasting the 1 minute of energy until the auto-shut off jumps in. If you are constantly hitting like every 1-2 minutes or better every 30 seconds I wouldn't let the unit power off by itself since I have the impression the battery is drained faster if I let the unit cool down more often.
I think what S&B meant in the manual is, when you finished a session, reload or you are making a break for more than 1 minute, better power down manually what seem obvious than letting the unit run without drawing anymore in your pocket until the auto shut off jumps in.

@UnshavenFish , I hope this doesn't sound to weird. I am baked, but I don't have the force to re-write this passage tomorrow since I'll probably will be medicated again...


The battery pass-through, the technical semantics behind and the consequences for battery life and charging cycles had been discussed in the mighty thread. Iirc there wasn't a general consensus but a lot of interesting and sophisticated informations from members with technical knowledge about pass-through and power managements. Definitely worth a quick look!

@UnshavenFish magic eraser = melamine foam. You are cleaning with tiny scratches.

Isn't polishing a surface the same thing?

 

[UnshavenFish]

once the vape is at temp, it no longer has to use the full 27W.

This was the thinking behind my original heat up using more power post


@Michel your English is better than you give credit for , I myself (even being English) have to translate what I post here as if I typed the way I talk or think nobody would understand a word of it I have a very strong Geordie accent that I know from time in the U.S. and around the UK people just don't understand.

 

[WakeAndVape]

I believe it is charging the whole time, but there is a reason you only see the app animations that show charging occurring part of the time. The reason is the difference in power used to power incoming through the charger.

When heating up from cold, it's using the full power of the heater (27W), which is more then what's coming in from the charger (10W). Therefore it's a net loss on battery level. However, once the vape is at temp, it no longer has to use the full 27W. Once it's using less then 10W, it's a net positive on battery level, thus you see the animation showing it.

So yes, you can absolutely use it while charging. Just be aware that you're shortening your battery life by doing so.

Hope that makes sense.

It makes perfect sense, so much so...that I understood it in your last reply.

What I was trying to state was that the mighty behaves in the same manner in relation to charge animations during heat up. The mighty when heating up while plugged in will NOT show the indicators blinking like it's charging.

second was a question...if it is only drawing off the battery during heat up and not temp maintenence, would this truly be bad on the battery, if the battery indeed only depletes for a couple minutes at a time when initially turns on?

Hope that is a little clearer